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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Breconshire => Wales => Breconshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: davidjkrichards on Wednesday 18 April 07 10:24 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information on my GGG Grandparents. I know that Lewis Lewis married Mary Bowcott from Merthyr Cynog before 1831. I don't have any more on Lewis other than he was a Baptist Minister & that he died in Newport, Pembrokeshire in 1846 age 42. Mary was born around 1811 in Merthyr Cynog. I don't have the name of her father but know he was a farmer. Her mother, also Mary, was born around 1766/9, also in Merthyr Cynog. The family moved to Newport just after 1841 because in 1851 the children are living with their grandmother in Dinas, Pembrokeshire. I haven't yet found out what happened to Mary. Two of their children returned to Breconshire for a while. William was living with his cousin, William Bowcott, Rector of Llanfillo, and Jane, my GG Grandmother, married William Watkins of Llandefalle in 1863. Any help would be much appreciated.
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Brynhaulyn (Spelt Bryn Haula on the tithe map of 1840 was owned and occupied by Mrs. Mary Bowcott being over 16 acres in size with a tithe payment of 14s. 0d. per annum . The 1841 census includes Mary Bowcott aged about 75; Mary Lewis aged about 30 both of whom are described as “Ind.” with Maryanna Lewis age 12; Elizabeth age 6; William age 4; Thomas age 1.
By 1851 the spelling was Brinhailin and the families living there were:- (i) Richard Bowcott a farmer of 16 acres aged 59 and born at Alltmawr - he was farming Llwynrhydill in 1841 - his wife Amelia aged 50 and born at Llywell; their grand daughter Joan Bowcott aged 3 born at Lampeter and Margaret Williams a house servant aged 19 from Crickadarn; .
Baptisms took place for children born at Brynhilyn during the early part of the 19th century which are abbreviated below:-
Lewis & Mary Lewis nee Bowcott had Mary Olwen born March 17th. 1829; Jane Dec. 24th. 1830; Thomas Bowcott Lewis on the 19th. May, 1833; and Elizabeth on 3rd. May, 1835.
There are also a number of headstones at Ebenezer relating to the families of Brynhilyn as follows:-
Sacred to the Memory of Thomas Bowcott of Brynhilyn in this Parish who died May 17 1833 aged 68 years;
- do - of Jane, daughter of the Revd. Lewis Lewis of Brynhilyn who died Dec.24 1830 aged 1 day
- do - of Thomas Bowcott Lewis son of the Revd, Lewis Lewis who died May 27th. 1834 aged 1 year.
Brynhilyn was on the east side of the Brecon/Upper Chapel/Builth Wells
road about a kilometre north of Upper Chapel village. It was demolished in
the 1950’s to make way for road improvements but the outbuildings are still standing and are on the opposite side of the road.
Rev. Lewis Lewis of Henrhyd, Card. was the congregational minister for Ebenezer Chapel, Upper Chapel from 1835 - 1839
Richard and Amelia Bowcott are buried at Merthyr Cynog Church - Richard in 1861 aged 69 and Amelia in 1867 aged 67
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8) Wow, thank you so much. I hoped to get some info but this is fantastic.
Thanks again
Dave
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Glad that the info I sent was relevant - I was given a Family Tree of the Bowcotts some years ago - before computer days and it is virtually A4 sheets pasted together and it is more or less impossible to copy - however I will try and collate what I think is relevant and go from there - so you should be hearing from me again
Best Wishes
OliViv
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Hi Oliviv,
Thank you, that would be great. What is your link to the Bowcotts?
Dave
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Bowcott Tree
I am not related to the Bowcotts but they were very prominent people at one time in the area where I was born - I suppose the only connection I have is that my Grandfather purchased the farm Llwynrhydill from a Rev. Bowcott whom I believe lived in Essex. - this would have been about the 1920’s
In the 1840 Tithe Map for Merthyr Cynog Richard Bowcott was one of only three owners / occupiers of farms at that time - all the rest of the farms were rented from Landowners and Merthyr Cynog is the second biggest Parish in area in Breconshire. He seemed to have been a very forward looking farmer but more of that again if you are interested.
This Richard Bowcott and his wife Amelia nee Powell are buried at Merthyr Cynog but on looking at the family tree given to me it would appear I may have given some wrong information this Richard would have been an uncle to Mary Bowcott who married Lewis Lewis - so I am going to start again - this is taken from the information given to me and I am sorry I can not reproduce it using the computer.
Here goes:- there seems to be loads with the Christian name of Richard.-
I think it will be best if I work backwards up the appropriate branch
1941 Census for Brynhaullyn;
Mary Bowcott aged about 75; Mary Lewis aged about 30; Maryanna Lewis 12; Elizabeth 6; William 4 and Thomas 1; The husband Rev. Lewis Lewis had ceased being a Minister in 1839 at Ebenezer Congregational Chapel.
The above family had moved away by 1851 - A Richard and Amelia Bowcott were living there in 1851 - they had been in an adjoining farm Llwynrhydill in 1841 - they were relations of Mary Bowcott.
According to family tree the above Lewis Family were living with a relation Rev. William Bowcott at Llanfillo Brecs in 1851
Mary Bowcott married Lewis Lewis (Minister of Gospel and believed to be from Henrhyd Cards.
Mary Bowcott was the daughter of Thomas Bowcott and she was mentioned in her father’s will (1833). Thomas Bowcott is probably buried at Ebenezer Chapel and Mary Bowcott may have died 1843 but don’t know where
1) Headstone = Buff sandstone - Urn in top panel with swags. Two ‘shield’ panels
Scared to the Memory of
Thomas Bowcott
of Brynhilyn in this Parish
who died May 17 1833 aged 68 years
(2) Headstone = Low red sandstone
Sacred to the Memory of
Jane, daughter of the Revd. Lewis Lewis of Brynhilyn
who died Dec. 24 1830 aged 1 day
(3) Headstone = Pinkish sandstone - shrouded urn panel
Scared to the Memory of
Thomas Bowcott Lewis, son the Revd. Lewis Lewis
of Brynhilyn of this Parish
who died May 27th (1834) aged 1 year
The Rev. Lewis Lewis referred to was probably the Ebenezer’s Minister from Henryd, Card.
It would appear that he married into the Bowcott Family who owned Brynhilyn in 1840
The Thomas Bowcott who died in 1833 was baptised at Merthyr Cynog 10th Dec. 1764. He is mentioned in his father’s will 1812
Thomas Bowcott’s father was named Richard Bowcott who made a will 16th. Dec. 1810, proved 22nd. Feb. 1812; mentions marriage settlement with first wife MARY JONES dated 30th June 1762 then Dec 1772 Richard Bowcott Widower married Gwenllian Morgans at Merthyr Cynog.
I would like to break off at this point and approach it another way.
Richard BOLLCOT (Will made at Merthyr Cynog 14 Jan. 1757; proved 20th May 1757 mentions sons WILLIAM BOLLCUT and JOHN BOLLCUT and mentions grandsons
Richard BOLLCOT son of William Bollcott and Richard BOLLCOTT son of John Bollcutt
After this the surname becomes Bowcott and from the tree it is not possible to say which of the Richard Bollcutts is the father of Thomas Bowcott who died in 1833.
There are loads of other branches to the tree far too complicated to explain. Hope I have not confused you too much
Oli Viv
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Thank you.
That gets me a bit further. It is interesing that the family tree says that the Lewis family were living with William Bowcott in 1851 (Rector of Llanfillo) as in the 1851 census most are living with their grandmother, Mary Bowcott, in Dinas, Pembrokeshire where Lewis Lewis died in 1846 and he was a Minister in 1841. William Bowcott Lewis, Lewis & Mary's son was living with his cousin, William, in Llanfillo.
I wonder if I could impose just once more. I know that of the children, Mary Ann & Richard married although neither had children. However, I have lost the others. Elizabeth was with mother & grandmother in 1841 and there is an Elizabeth Bowcott, whose details match, as a servant in Merthyr Cynog in 1851 but, of course, I don't know whether they are one & the same. Also I cannot find any trace of William after 1851 ( although he was a witness at his sister, Jane's, wedding in 1863) nor Thomas who was with his grandmother in 1851.
Do you have anything in the tree regarding those children?
Dave
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Sorry I don't have any info about the Lewis Children - the tree fades out when they moved away from M C - have quite a number of branches but do not know if they are relevant
OlivViv
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Thank you for all your help,
Dave
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Whilst looking for more information on my Mary Bowcott (born 1811 Merthyr Cynog) who married David Davies (born 1811 Crickadarn) at Gwenddwr on 20 May 1836 I found a marriage for your Mary Bowcott to Lewis Lewis on 10 Jun 1828 at Dyffryn Honddu. It was a marriage by Licence and states that the Groom is from Llanbeder in the County of Carnarvon (sic).
My Mary Davies (nee Bowcott) is buried at Crickadarn and her dob is calculated from her age at death inscribed on gravestone and from census, and on 3 census she gave her place of birth as Merthyr Cynog. I wonder if you have any information which may help me in my search. Possibly our 2 Marys were cousins.
Mev
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Hi Mev,
Sorry I don''t have any more information other than that kindly provided by oliviv. It is very likely that our two Marys are linked. Your enquiry has reminded me that I wanted to get copies of any wills (I have been in and out of hospital for the last two years) so I will have a look in the National Library of Wales and see what I can find. If anything is of interest I will liet you know.
Dave
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Thanks Dave and if I find anything relevant to your research I will let you know too.
Mev
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Re your Bowcott query
This is only information taken from a family tree which was given to me some years ago and it is a bit difficult to follow. However if it is relevant I may be able to contact the person who gave me the tree and ask his permission if you can contact him direct.
It would appear that Mary Bowcott born circa 1790 Married 27th May 1813 @ Alltmawr to a Roger Davies (who died 7th Dec. 1817 Aged 45 and they had issue Jennet Davies bapt. 17 June 1814; David bapt. 15 Nov. 1815; Mary bapt. 24 June 1817 - All at Beilibrith Merthyr Cynog and all mentioned in Grandfather’s (Richard Bowcott) Will of 1836. This Mary was poss. dau of Richard Bowcott of Merthyr Cynog
Mary Bowcott (dau of Thomas Bowcott of Merthyr Cynog) married Lewis Lewis Minister of the Gospel
Hope this may be of some help rather than a complication
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Hi Oliviv
Thanks for the reply. I am waiting for a copy of the marriage from the Parish Register to come through which hopefully may give me Mary's father's name so will be able to check the info you have given with that. I know that she is buried at St Mary's Crickadarn and lived at Tycanol farm from 1851 to her death. Her 1st born son David Bowcott Davies & daughter Elizabeth are buried with John & Mary Morgans who lived at Tycanol on 1841 census. I am trying to establish whether Mary Morgans was David Davies' sister. I have ordered a copy of Mary Morgans' will which will hopefully provide some enlightenment on that front. I will come back to you when I have checked these out .
Many thanks for your help
Mev
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Hi Oliviv
I have been studying the info re Mary Bowcott c1790 and don't think that could be a connection but thank you for your help. If I could impose on you again.... Do you have a William Bowcott gentleman of Vron, Gwenddwr on your tree. The 1841 census gives his age as 75 so born c1766 and he died about 1847. The 1841 census also has Mary Bowcott age 55 so born c1786 and Thomas Bowcott age 25 so born c 1816. I think it is quite likely that these are my Mary's c1811 family.
Many thanks
Mev
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Re your Bowcott query
Yes there is a William (spelt Boolcotte) on the tree who was baptised 25th March 1768 @ Merthyr Cynog; died 17th Feb 1848 @ Vron Gwenddwr (copy of Will) 1841 census @ this address. mentioned in father’s will 1812
He married on the 11th May 1808 @ Merthyr Cynog a Mary Davies who was the daughter of a Roger Davies who died 1829 and made a will 11th Jan. 1824. Farm Name - Noyadd, Llandewir’r Cwm, Builth Wells mentions daughter Mary wife of William Bowcott.
William & Mary had issue:-
1. Rev. William Bowcott born circ 1808/9 married Elizabeth Watkins daughter of Thomas Watkins Esq., of Fordfawr. Rev. Wm Bowcott was Rector of Llanfillo and is buried there. Memorial in Church
2. Mary Bowcott who married David Davies of Pentreffyntronnau, Cerrigcaran
(Source Father’s will of 1848)
3. Thomas Bowcott born circa 1813/4 married Jane ?
At the Vron on 1841 Census with parents and 1851 Census - do - married
Birth place - Llandewi’r Cwm - cross reference grandad Roger Davies
1861 and 1871 Census at Blaengwenddwr, Gwenddwr who had issue Mary Ann Bowcott who married William Thomas Griffiths (descendants still living in Gwenddwr Parish)
It woul appear that William Bollcotte bapt. 25.4.1768 was the son of a Richard Bowcott/Bolcott who was the son of either a William or a John Bollcot and grandson of Richard Bollcott who made a will @ Merthyr Cynog - 14th Jan. 1757; Will proved 20th May 1757 .
It gets a bit complicated so I think it best if you ask th questions
Hope the info is of some help
Best Wishes
OliViv
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Hi Oliviv
Thank you so much. This is definately the right family. David & Mary Davies were recorded at Pentrefynnau on 1841 census.
My G Grandfather Samuel Evans lived with them. Think I will have to order copies of the wills. I will fill in what I can on my tree and get back to you again when I have it straight if that is ok. You truly are a godsend.
Best wishes
Mev
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Hi Oliviv
From what you have said I have my William (c1768-1848) and Dave's Thomas (c1764-1833) as brothers - both sons of the same Richard & Mary (nee Jones). Did this Richard have any other children do you know either by Mary or Gwenllian. Is there any mention of whether Richard's cousin Richard had any children and were these 2 Richards the only known grandchildren of Richard who died c1757. Sorry lots of questions.
I have found a marriage for Thomas c1813 to a Jane Jenkins Dec quarter 1847 . There was a Jane Jenkins living with the Bowcott's at Vron on 1841 census as a female servant.A possibility maybe.
best wishes
Mev
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Re Lewis/Bowcott Family
Yes according to the family tree given to me William Boolcotte bapt 25.4.1768 and Thomas Bowcott bapt. 10.12.1764 were brothers. Other siblings were:-
1. Richard Bowcott bapt. 8.7.1763; John Bowcott Bapt. 27.10.1766; Easter Bowcot bapt. 11.1.1770 buried 17.2.1770.
The earliest details on the tree are as below:-
Richard Bollcott (will made at Merthyr Cynog - 14th Jan 1757 and proved 20th May 1757. The will mentions two sons William and John (and poss grandsons also mentioned)
The son William had a son named Richard as did the son named John whose son was also called Richard. The next generation is also called Richard but it is not clear whether he is the son of William or Richard.
The last named Richard (the father of Richard; William; John; Thomas and Easter) made a will 16.12.1810 which was proved 22.2.1812. This will mentions marriage settlement with first wife MARY JONES dated 30.6.1762. then Merthyr Cynog. 8.12.1772 Richard Bowcott widower married Gwenllian Morgan.
My apologies for lack of clarity but the tree is a bit difficult to follow. If I can be of any further help please do not hesitate to ask
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv & Mev
I am so grateful for the filling in of blanks on my tree. Great to see that we are distant relations too, Mev. I see that you are both able to get copies of wills. I have tried but it would appear that because I just live over the border in Shropshire I can't order them from The National Library of Wales on-line. Is this the case or am I just a bit dense? I blame the drugs! Is there another way I can order documents?
If either of you are interested then you can follow the branch of Thomas (b 1764) at
http://gw4.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=newlandrichards
If you find it useful and would like access to those born after 1907 or still alive email me & I will let you have the necessary passwords.
Thanks to you both
Dave
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Hi Oliviv
Can I impose again please. Do you have any details of the other Richard (uncle to my William). Did he marry and have any children? I would like to try and work out which Richard is son of William and which is son of John if possible so any info you have on both of them could be useful.
Many thanks
Mev
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Bowcott
Sorry I am not able to give you info on Richard - the Richard Bowcott, your William's father, is shown on the tree as being EITHER the son of Richard (a son of William Bollcott and therefore a grandson of William Bollcott
OR
the son of Richard (John Bollcot's son) and therefore a grandson of John Bollcott
The tree may also be interpretated that Richard was the son of William or John Bollcott as there is a ?? by the entry - OR it may be that this Richard was a grandson of the original Richard Bollcott who made a will 14.1.1757 (the dates may help you to solve the riddle) If he was the grandson of the original Richard Bollcott his father would have been William or John Bollcott.
This is quite difficult to explain so I hope I am not confusing things for you.
THOMAS BOWCOTT born circa 1813/4 Died 10.5.1875 on thre tree marries a Jane with a ?? mark.
I see they have offsprings
Mary Ann Bowcott b. Sept. 1850 and
Jane Bowcott b. circa 1854.
All for now. I was unable to open your family tree - the computer is too old and I am too old and I am not on Broadband
Best Wishes
OlivViv
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Hi Olviv
Thank you so much for all your help.
I did find the marriage for Thomas(1813-1875) to a Jane Jenkins.
Does your tree have a James Bowcott born c1761 not sure where as he is shown on 1841 census only living at Nantymynach in Gwenddwr.
The link to my tree has to be done to an email address but is quiet easy to access and use if you contact me direct I can do it for you if you would like. It doesn't need broadband or anything fancy (I'm no spring chicken either).
Best wishes
Mev
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Sorry the christian name James does not appear even once on the tree.
Best Wishes
OlivViv
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Hi Oliviv
Thanks for looking for me. I am truly greatful for all the help you have given me.
Best wishes
Mev
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It has been a pleasure - if you have a query on more recent members of your family don't hesitate to ask
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hello again
I don't know if you are still researching the Bowcott family tree but the other day while looking at a list of Memorial Inscriptions for Ebenezer Chapel, Upper Chapel (in the parish of Merthyr Cynog) I noticed the following inscription
Sacred to the Memory of James Bowcott
of Nantymynach in the Parish of Gwenddwr
Who died June 24, 1851. Aged 95 years.
I have no idea why he was buried at Ebenezer
Best Wishes
Oliviv
Hello again
I don't know if you are still researching the Bowcott family tree or not but the other day while looking at a list of Memorial Insriptions for Ebenezer Chaperl, Upper Chapel (In the parish of Merthyr Cynog) I noticed the following:-
Sacred to the Memory of James Bowcott
of Nantymynach in the Parish of Gwenddwr
Who died June 24, 1851. Aged95 years
I have no idea why he was buried at Ebenezer
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv,
yes, thank you, We are still looking so all information still welcome.
Hope you are well
Dave
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Hi Oliviv
Thanks for the info on James. I have been looking through the registers and have found the following -
Mary daughter of James Bowlcott baptised 20 Apr 1783 Merthyr Cynog
Margaret daughter of James Bowlcott baptised 28 Jan 1785 Merthyr Cynog
James son of James Bowcott & Joan baptised 22 Feb 1789 Merthyr Cynog
Joan daughter of James Bowcott & Joan baptised 20 Jul 1792 Merthyr Cynog
Elinor daughter of James Bowcott & Joan baptised 17 Aug 1795 Merthyr Cynog
Ann daugher of James Bowcott & Joan baptised 27 Feb 1799 Llandefailogfach
Rees son of James Bowcott & Joan baptised 1 Jan 1805 Llandefailogfach
9 Jan 1811 Joan wife of James Bowcott labourer buried Llandefailogfach
As Bowcott is such an unusual name in Breconshire I am sure that James must be related somehow but I haven't found a baptism record for him as yet.
If I can impose on you again I wonder if you could check if any of the following appear on your tree.
As Richard Bulcot who died 1757 mentions John Prichard in his will on several occasions I have been looking at him. I have found a marriage between a Mary Bowcot & John Prichard in Llandefailogfach on 7 May 1741 and I am thinking that maybe Mary Bowcot was Richard Bulcot's daughter. There is also a baptism record for a Thomas son of Richard Bulcot on 16 Jan 1717 in Llandefailogfach and a Joan daughter of Richard Bowcott 3 Jun 1733 in Llandefailogfach and a Richard son of Richard Bowcot on 6 Mar 1736 again in Llandefailogfach. There is also a marriage of a Richard Bowcott to Gwenllian Powell on 5 Nov 1732 in Llandefailogfach. Any information you can supply or confirm would be most helpful.
I was hoping to have been able to check the M.I's at Llandrindod for Merthyr Cynog & Llandefailogfach as quite often you can gain a lot of information from them but unfortunately they didn't have any.
best wishes
Mev
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Hello Mev
My apologis for not replying earlier and unfortunately I am unable to find any reference to a 'John Pritchard and Mary Bowcott on the family tree.
I have a copy of the M.I's for Llandefaelog but the only reference I can find (on the last line)
Lying loose in the Penoyre vault area =
John Bowcott and his wife Elizabeth. He died Feb. 6. 1795
I have checked the M.I's for John and Mary Pritchard but no luck
I also have the M I's for Merthyr Cynog church but I think I have already given the details namely - Richard Bowcott Late of Llwynrhydill died Mar. 13 1861 agd 69 years; Also Amelia relict died May 21. 1867 Aged 67
Thomas son of Richard Bowcott died Sept. 18. 1828 aged 2 months Also Howell died April 15 1836 aged 9 years and 5 months
Sorry for the lack of info
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
Thank you for all your help. I am presuming then that my William Bowcott isn't recorded on either Merthyr Cynog or Llandefailog MI's. I will have to try searching Gwenddwr churchyard again although I didn't find a burial in the register for him. Would you be able to check for a John Jones born c1781 and died after 1851 census and his wife Margaret born c1780 died after 1851 census. John was a blacksmith at Tynewid? Merthyr Cynog and was my GGGG Grandfather.
Mev
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Hello again Mev
A bit more luck this time - There is a John Jones, Blacksmith aged 70 living At Tynewydd on the 1951 census for Merthyr Cynog Parish with his wife Margaret aged 71. Both were born in Llanfihangel Fechan and with them was their unmarried daughter Mary aged 28 also born in Llanfihangel Fechan (Lower Chapel). John and Margaret were still living there in 1861 (ages look like 80 and 79).
Guess what - at the next house about 300 yards away who is living there but Richard Bowcott aged 59 farmer of 18 acres who was born in Alltmawr with his wife Amelia aged 50 who was born in the Parish of Llywell (Brecs) with their grand daughter Joan aged 3 who was born in Lampeter Cards. This Richard and Amelia previously lived at Llwynrhydill the next farm towards Builth. I think I have already told you that they were buried at M.C. with dates. A bit more info to confuse things I see there is a Thomas Bowcott of Brynhilyn who died May 17 1833 aged 68 years buried at Ebenezer Chapel Upper Chapel.
An explanation about Tynewydd - (built circa 1840 - Tynewydd means 'New House') although it is in the Parish of Merthyr Cynog it is situated in the Upper Chapel area on the B4520 (Brecon / Builth Road) about 100 yards on the right after the B4519 branches off to the left.
It is in the Duffryn Honddu Upper Ward of Merthyr Cynog. It is now called Rose Cottage with a little bit of history, gossip and utter nonsense attached to it. The locals are convinced that Salmon Rushdie had his hideout in the cottage in the 1980's.
Something for you to mull over
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
Thank you for the info for 1861 census I had not found John on it but that was because it had been mistranscribed as Age 30. I had both John & Margaret as born in Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan (I think 1851 census says Llanfihangel Pohn) and they were married there too 3 Jun 1803. Possibly they are buried there.
The Thomas Bowcott buried 1833 was the brother of my William (I have a copy of his will).
Where is Llandefailogfach? Is it close to Upper Chapel? There are a lot of Bowcotts in the PR's for Llanefailogfach. Does a Richard Bowcott in your tree marry a Gwenllian Powell in 1732 and have a daughter Joan in 1733 and a son Richard in 1736?
Mev
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Hello Again Mev
1st a geography lesson - Llandefaelog Fach is about 3 miles north of Brecon on the B4520 Road - on the same road as Upper Chapel. 2ndly The parish of Llanfihangel Fechan (known locally as Lower Chapel) was originally a part of the Parish of Llandefaelog Fach.
The copy of the 1851 census that I have clearly states that John Jones and his wife Margaret were born in Llanfihangel Fechan so I think Llanfihangel Brynpabuan is misleading. Tynewydd cottage was built on a field belonging to Richard Bowcott of Brynhillyn.
One of the Richard Bowcotts on the family tree(son of John) made a will in Dec. 1810 proven 22nd Feb.1812 mentions marriage settlement with first wife Mary Jones dated 30th June 1762 then Merthyr Cynog 8 December 1772 Richard Bowcott widower married Gwenllian Morgans - I can't see a Gwenllian Powell.
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
Thanks for the explanations it is most helpful.
I spent a day at Llandrindod looking at Merthyr Cynog & Llandefailogfach P.R's trying to find the correct ones for my tree but although I found plenty of Bowcotts and various other spellings very few matched my tree. It is probably easiest if I give you a list of all the records I did find if you could check to see if any are in your tree if you wouldn't mind.
best wishes
Mev
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Hello again
I am not promising anything but I am willing to give it a go
it may be less daunting if you start off with a selected list to begin with
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
Thank you so much. I have split the list and the following are all connected to a John Bowcott
Marriage 29 May 1823 John Bowcott Anne Jones Maesmynis PR says John Bowcott of Alltmawr. Wit by Thomas Bowcott
Baptism 22 Apr 1824 Jane d/o John Bowcott & Anne Alltmawr
Baptism 1 Feb 1826 Richard s/o John Bowcott & Anne Alltmawr
Baptism 16 Jan 1831 Mary d/o John Bowcott & Mary Alltmawr
Baptism 19 May 1833 Margaret d/o John Bowcott & Anne Alltmawr
Baptism 23 Aug 1837 John s/o John Bowcott & Anne Alltmawr
Baptism 28 Jun 1835 Eliza d/o John Bowcott & Anne Alltmawr
Baptism 23 Oct 1840 Thomas s/o John Bowcott & Anne Alltmawr
Baptism 6 Apr 1740 Benjamin s/o John Bowcot Llandefailogfach
Baptism 19 May 1743 Joan d/o John Bowcot Llandefailogfach
Baptism 10 Aug 1746 Elizabeth d/o John Bowcatt Llandefailogfach
Baptism 3 Apr 1748 Elizabeth d/o John Bowcot Llandefailogfach
Baptism 4 Feb 1749 Ann d/o John Bowcot Llandefailogfach
Burial 17 Apr 1749 Elizabeth d/o John Bowcott Llandefailogfach
Baptism 21 May 1749 John s/o John Bowcott Llandefailogfach
Baptism 18 Jul 1749 John s/o John Bowcot Llandefailogfach
Baptism 29 May 1763 John s/o John Bolcot Llandefailogfach
There is no further information on these entries in the Parish Register so any we can match up will be a bonus.
Thanks
Mev
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God's Truth what a list - I have lived in the Parish of Llandefaelog Fach since I retired from work and although I am interested in social history I have never heard of a Bowcott ever being mentioned or written about for this area - admittedly they are going back about 250 years.
I will now have a look at the Family Tree but I am not being very hopeful of having a result - perhaps one of these days I can go and have a look at the local Church Records
Best Wishes
Oliviv
PS My computer skills are not what they should be - are my messages fairly legible
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Hello Mev
There is no luck on the Llandefaelog Bowcots as I suspected so I am going to concentrate on John Bowcott but most probably you already have the information and I must emphasise that it is only my interpretation of the tree which is not very clear.
John Bowcott born 2nd. March 1794 @ Alltmawr son of Richard Bowott (1763 - 1836)(I have a list of John's siblings but am not going to mention them unless you want to know)
John Married 29 May 1823 Ann Jones of Maemynis.
On the tree is list which I have interpretated as being the source of information:-
1841 Census Alltmawr
1851 Cendsus Llangenny, Crickhowell
1861 Census ?
1871 Census Llanfihangel Ystern Lewern, Mon
1812 Mentioned in g.fathers will
1816 - do - father's will
1858 - do brother Thomas's will
Died June 1875 aged 83
Wife Died Dec 1879
John and Ann Issue seam to be:-
Jane Bapt. 22 Mar 1824 Alltmawr 1841 Census Altmawr (15)
Richard 1 Feb 1826 - do - (15)
Ann 5 Mar 1828 - do - (13)
Mary Bp. 16 Jan 1831 - do - (10) and 1851 Llangenny (20)
Margaret Bap 19 May 1833 - do - (8) 1851 Llangenny (17)
All at Alltmawr
Margaret died June 1884 agee 48 - Monmouth
Source List with a No. which I don't understand may be age
There is a second group namely
Eliza Bap 28 June @ Alltmawr 1841 Census for Alltmawr (5)
1851 Llangenny (15)
John Bap 23 Aug 1837 Alltmawr 1841 Census Allmawr (3)
Thomas Bap. 23 Oct 1840 1841 Census 6 mths
1851 Census Llangenny (10) 1861 Census ?? Married by 1871 Census to Sarah 1871 Census Monmouth 28
(The tree then appears to give their issue but ask if you want info (Continuing with Thos - 1881 Census Monmouth (38)
1891 Census Mon. (48) Died a widower 23 Nov. 1912 @ The Warra, Raglan Mon
Catherine Bowcott born circa 1844\5 1851 Censu Llangenny (6)
William Bowcott born 20 Mar 1846 1851 Census Llangenny (5) 1871 Census Mon. (23) 1881 Census Mon (34) 1891 Census Mon (42)
I hope that this may be of some use
Best Wishes Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
Thank you for taking the time to look these up for me. I am wondering if maybe the Llandefailogfach Bowcotts are the descendants from the other Richard son of either William or John. I will fill in the info that you have given and then have another look through the list.
best wishes
Mev
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Hello Mev
Its me again - I noticed the following which may be of interest to you.
On the 5th November 1839 at Merthyr Cynog Church
Evan Jones, bachelor (Blacksmith) of Tynewydd, Upper Chapel, the son of John Jones, blacksmith married Jane Probert Spinster of Tymawr Upper Chapel the daughter of David Probert, Farmer.
Jane’s death is recorded on her father’s headstone at Ebenezer Chapel, Upper Chapel as follows:-
In Memory of David Probert of Tymawr in this Parish who died April 18 1854 also Jane wife of Evan Jones, Dowlais Ironworks who died Sept. 6th. 1849 aged 30 years.The headstones have been relocated for Health and Safety reasons but the above mentioned headstone was next to the one of Thomas Bowcott of Brynhilyn who died May 17 1833 aged 68 years
The 1851 Census for Tymawr has the following entries
Jane Probert Head Wid. aged 70 farmer of 80 acres
David Probert, son unmarried aged 40
Jane Jones, grand daughter aged 11 Scholar born Merthyr Cynog Parish
William Jones, Grandson aged 9 born Dowlais Ironworks
The Probert family are still living in the area. In fact my paternal aunt and a maternal aunt married two Proberts.
Hope you are keeping well
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
Thank you so much I will put the extra info in my tree. Oddly enough I was about to ask you if you had a David Thomas Bulcot/Bowcott in your tree. I think he died about 1780 as I spotted a will for him which says he was from Merthyr Cynog.
I have been a bit busy of late so haven't had chance to do any more on my research but will get around to it as soon as I can. I am hoping to have a trip down to Ebenezer Chapel in the next couple of weeks.
Hope you are enjoying the summer
best wishes
Mev
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Hello Mev
No info today. Hope you enjoy your trip to Ebenezer. It is a bit difficult to find but I can give you more precise information if you would like it. About 100 yards past the Chapel there is a car park.
It would be nice to meet as you will probably be driving past my front door but I don't know how to let you know where I live because I believe there are some regulations when using this website about giving personal details
Best Wishes
Oliviv
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Hi Oliviv
I have joined Rootsweb this minute, after accidentally coming across your posting of March 2007. It refers to information found on a gravestone at Bethel Chapel, Llandefaelog, saying "to the memory of Selina wife of Thomas Davies, Tynwayn, the parish of Merthyr Cynog who died Feb 19th 1865 aged 32 years. Also in loving memory of the said Thomas Davies who died Oct 21st 1925 aged 95 years'
Yesterday I sent for the death certificate of the said Selina (her maiden name was Williams)
Wondering if you have a connection to this family, or answering a question for someone else.
Regards Genieflower
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I have tonight seen your message to Oliviv - I have gone on to Broadband and have changed my email address and my new name is now Iago.
The information I gave in 2007 was in reply to an enquiry from "Davies family 1951" and I see it is still listed on RootsChat.
If you think I can give you any information please do not hesitate to ask.
Best Wishes
Iago
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Hi Iago
Thanks for your reply. As you see, I only joined Rootsweb when I stumbled across the Davies burial information the other day.
I was interested to know if you had actrually seen that headstone or if the info came from another source.
I'm researching that particular Davies line - that is, Thomas Davies, b 1831 who married Selina Magdalen Williams. They had 3 children, Jennett b 1857, she married John Hope Evans a Congregational minister. William, who married Margaret; they had 8 children, 6 still living in 1911, and Thomas Cynog, a Baptist Minister b. 1863 and died 1911. It was interesting to note from your info from the headstone that Thomas b.1831 lived to such a ripe old age. In 1911 he was living at Baily Helig with his son William and daughter in law Margaret.
Not yet sure how to use Rootsweb - am I rambling too much?
Regards - Genieflower
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Hello Genieflower
The details ,of the gravestone was taken from a list of Memorial Inscriptions published by Gareth Jones in 1996 for Bethel Chapel Llandefaelog fach Parish (also known as Bethel Chapel, Lower Chapel (It is adjacent to the B4520 about ½ mile north of Pwllgloyw and is only about 10 yards outside of Merthyr Cynog Parish Boundary. There is not a Baptist chapel in Merthyr Cynog Parish although there are two Congregational and two Methodist Chapels in the Parish as well as two Churches and it would appear from the information you have given that they were Baptists and that would be the reason for them being buried at Bethel. (Tynwain is not so very far from Bethel – in fact it is in the next valley).
I don’t know how much you know about Tynwain – but a word of warning – there are two Tynwains or Tynwauns in M C Parishes (Also two Tynwerns). M C is divided into 4 wards for census purposes; Duffryn Honddu Upper (Upper Chapel) and Duffryn Honddu Lower; Yscirfechan and Yscirfawr – The Tynwain you are interested in is in the Yscirfawr Ward. (According to a little book I have entitled Welsh Place names in Breconshire Tyn-y-waun means house in the meadow and Tyn-y-wern the house in the alders or marsh – now I am rambling on.
In a booklet entitled “An outline history of Bethel Baptist Church“ under the heading Trustees re Purchase of Land to build Bethel Chapel there is a John Williams Tynymaen Merthyr Cynog farmer
The description of the gravestone is given as – Fawn sandstone “coffin lid” on legs:-
To the memory of Selina wife of Thomas Davies of Tynwayn , in the Parish of Merthyr Cynog who died Feb 19th 1865 aged 32 years.
(followed by a religious verse in welsh). Also in loving memory of the said Thomas Davies who died Oct. 21st. 1925 aged 95 years.
There are a number of gravestones in the vicinity relating to the Williams family who I think would be Selina’s relations but more of that in the future if you are interested.
I hope to look up the census details in the local library tomorrow and with a bit of luck may be able to give you some more information.
All for now
Best Wishes
Iago
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Hi Iago
Thank you for this exciting (to me) information. Some of the Welsh names, being similar, are often difficult to work out. I am currently awaiting the death certificate of Selina, which I hoped would supply more information. In the 1841 Census (HO 107/1368/12) Division of Yscirfawr (which you refer to ) Parish of Merthy Cynog, it shows John Williams Farmer, aged 50 with Elizabeth aged 45, and 10 children, I assume to be theirs - the 1841 not giving away all that much - of the 10 children, there is a Selina aged 9, and without positive proof as yet, I am working on the assumption she is the Selina who married Thomas Davies. Only a parish register would prove this of course. In the 1851 Census, Parish of Merthyr Cynog (HO107/2489) there is a Benjamin Davies farmer of 50 acres at Tygwyn, who has a 21 year old son named Thomas, and I believe this is the Thomas who married Selina Williams. It seems quite likely that the daughter of one farmer, would marry the son of another farmer. Do you know what they would have farmed in those days in that area? All very interesting, trying to piece these things together.
Regards from Genieflower
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Hello again Genieflower
Pleased that you found the information interesting and I think I have some more that you will enjoy. But first can I suggest you submit a "look up Request" to RootChat.com with a different heading as at present our messages are getting mixed up with the Lewis/Bowcott family which has no connections whatsoever.
I have a strong inclination that Selina Davies nee Williams was the daughter of John Williams of Nantygwreiddyn a farm adjoining Tynwain and would suggest a Look up Request such as "Williams Family Nantygwreiddyn Farm Pontfaen Brecon" or Davies Family Tynwain Pontfaen Brecon but I think you will get more info on the Williams Family.
You can still use your nomdeplume of Genieflower - let me know if you submit a new Look up request and I will send you some more info - I don't think it costs anything. At present the general public will only relate to Lewis / Bowcott and not your request.
Hope I haven't confused things
Best Wishes
Iago
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Hi Iago
Thanks for that - wasn't sure how to change to Lewis Bowcott heading! So I'll certainly take up your suggestion with the Look-up request. I'm pretty sure that Selina is from the family you mention, but hoping that as soon as her marriage certificate arrives, which I've ordered and expect any day, it will shed more light, and I can be more positive then in providing correct information for any look-up requests.
You are obviously very familiar with the area, and also of how this all works, so thank you so much for that.
I think there is also a way of connecting 'personally' by email as well, which I am happy to do along the way.
Thanks for your help
Regards
Genieflower
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Hello Genieflower
Thanks for your message - yes I do know the area quite well but am not all that proficient in the computer world and am not able to advise you but I do believe it is possible to send emails direct to each other and am quite willing to co-operate but I don't know the procedures for doing it.
Using nomdeplumes is essential to keep our privacy but in a recent exchange of correspondence I was conversing with someone I felt sure was a male and it turned out to be a female and that same person thought I was a female - how wrong can one be - so if we do get to the stage where we are sending messages to each other I am letting you know that I am male -Iago does not give much of a clue to gender.
Went to Brecon Library today but was disappointed in my look ups
Speak to you again
Best Wishes
Iago
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Hi Iago
Bit of a blow as I have discovered I inadvertently entered the incorrect Quater on a marriage cert I am keenly awaiting, to prove the parents names. I believe I am have been on the wrong track, and should be tracking the family of William Davies who was born c1795 in Llanvihangelfach (?) as he and his wife Jennet are probably the parents of Thomas who married Selina. Once I know I have the correct info I will be able to post look up requests under Davies/Williams.
As the Lewis/Bowcott is no connection, I'll stop using this as a reply.
By the way, Genieflower I feel, is a good gender clue.
Regards