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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: eddieshouse on Saturday 14 April 07 14:34 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help on this one.I found my great-grandfather born in Presteigne 1871.
John James Edwards - 1881 census - 6 albert square,presteigne
Father - John Edwards mother - frances ( i think nee mills)
In 1871 the same family seem to be in albert square but the surname is now evans.
John Edwards was born in clun according to later census.
Frances was born in presteigne
According to bmd index's children may have been christened evans.
I,m baffled as to why he may have gone from edwards to evans and back to edwards,any presteigne experts out there who may have a clue where to start.
Cheers
John :(
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Hiya and Welcome to Rootschat.
This is a strange one firstly i thought maybe the family had been mistranscribed as Evans in 1871.However i then found what looks like all the childrens births on Free Bmd and indeed they are under Evans.
Also found this marriage
John Evans to Frances Ann Mills in Qtr March 1864 Vol 11b Page 234.Which again fits.
I did think maybe Frances remarried to a John Edwards and her children took on the stepfathers name but cannot find a marriage .
Will see what else i can find.Maybe someone else will come up with some ideas
Welsh Lady
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1851 Church Street,Presteigne,Radnorshire
H0107 Piece 2492 Folio 465 Page 21
William Mills,Head,35,Carpenter
Charlotte Mills,Wife,32
John Mills,Son,11
Frances Mills,Dau,8
Sarah Mills,Dau,6
William Mills.Son,2
Susan Abel,Visitor,22
All born Presteigne,Radnorshire
Welsh Lady
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Thanks for looking and your help.I have also had all the same thoughts,the latest i'm considering is i found a john edwards born in clun,living with his grandmother elizabeth in clun in 1851. I checked on his birth and he seems to have been born out of wedlock so could this have been him and in those days being born on these terms maybe he hid his real name for a while and moved on.His father was a thomas edwards and his mother a mary reynolds.Still,all guesswork and maybe the truth will never be available.
Cheers
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There are also 2 John Evans born 1844 in Clun Shropshire one with parents Thomas and Jane the other with parents David and Mary.
What id do next if you havent already is send for the birth cert of one of John and Francess children this will give you mothers maiden name.To confirm she was Mills
Then send for John and Francess marriage cert to give us Fathers names and addresses and go from there.
Another guess is that Johns Mother remarried an Edwards and then John decided to change his name and his childrens names .But as you say we might never know but sending for the certs will give you more info to go on.
Welsh Lady
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I think that is the only chance i got now, will send for birth certificate for john james evans and see what road that takes me,thanks again for your help.
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Post details when you have it.Good Luck
Welsh Lady
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Welsh Lady
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Welsh Lady
Have received certificates.
John James Evans was born 16.11.1870 in presteigne.father was john evans of albert square,presteigne.mother was frances ann evans formerly mills so we have the right family.
John Evans married frances ann mills in presteigne 31.01.1864.frances ann mills was 21,a spinster,housemaid living in broad street,presteigne,father named as william mills a carpenter.Now the intrigue continues,john evans was 22,a bachelor,occupation looks like brewer living in hereford street,presteigne.column for fathers name and prefession has been crossed out,no name or mention of deceased or anything.
as i said earlier i have a certificate of a john edwards born 31.07.1841 in norbury,clun,salop to a thomas edwards and mary reynolds formerly lucas and i can't seem to find these people again.Think my brick wall just got higher.
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At least we know we have the right family.This is strange i have never come across this scenario he marries under Evans ,registers his children under Evans then changes the whole families name to Edwards?At least we think he was illegitimate as his Father not mentioned on marriage cert or was there another reason for that?Will have a look around see what i can find.Its intriguing .
Welsh Lady
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Have found this death cant find John in 1901 so its a possible due to the names and age
Qtr Jan 1894 John Edwards Evans age 52(Birth 1842)
vol 11b page 107 in Knighton.
Welsh Lady
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Problem we have is that we dont know if he was registered at birth as Evans or Edwards?
A possible in 1851
Clun,Shropshire
H0107 Piece 1953 Folio 133 Page 23
Elizabeth Edwards,Head,Widow,67,Domestic,
Montgomeryshire
John Edwards,Grandson,8,Clun,Salop.
And i cant find the above under Edwards in 1861?Think you need to go through Cluns Baptism records looking for an illegitimate John Evans or Edwards born around 1842.
Welsh Lady
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Any idea where i will find clun baptism records or would i have to visit.John James Edwards married Annie Williams in llantarnam,monmouthshire april 1895,gives his father as John Edwards - a coachman - on the marriage certificate.Father not a witness on the certificate.
Cheers
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Yes you could pay a visit to Shropshire Archives to view Parish Records i always find Genuki site a good reference to what each county has in their Archives.Also try Shropshire FHS or Google Clun Records sometimes you can purchase Parish Records on microfiche.I have not researched myself in Shropshire .So good luck
Im still dying to know about the name change let me know what you come up with
Welsh Lady
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Cheers Welsh Lady
Just got in from work,going straight back out,think it might be a good idea to post this one on the shropshire site in case anyone can help,I live and work in newport so getting to clun could be a problem,let u know if i find anything.
Cheers
John
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This is a bit off beam, but their visitor Susan Abel, born Presteigne, as per the 1851 census was a sister of my ancestor George.
George's family too went under various surnames- Abel, Roe and Vaughan, and few of the "marriages" in this line seem to be there to be found! George's son (?) Edward / John / Jack (my ancestor too) is found as Thomas, Roe and Abel; once he left the area he was always an Abel.
What a challenge trying to sort out these seemingly carefree border families! I still have no clue as to where the Roe name comes in.