RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sarra on Thursday 12 April 07 00:13 BST (UK)
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My Ancestor
William Fleming immigrated to Australia from Scotland in 1888.
I can't find him on any Shipping records - if some kind person could find him for me I would be very grateful.
William Fleming was born abt. 1855 - Larbert Stirling Scotland.
He married (age 33 years) in Dandenong Victoria - in December 1888. His occupation was listed as Contractor. He died in 1909 age 53 years, the death certificate says he had been in Victoria for 21 years.
Thanks
Sarra
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FLEMING W S MR 34 arrived MAR 1888 on the ORMUZ B 494 016
from the provic site
this may be of assistance to you
regards jenn
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Jenn,
Thanks for that information. I will check the shipping register.
William has been difficult to trace - particularly his arrival in OZ. Also I have not found his birth in Scotland as yet.
Thank you.
Sarra.
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Hi Sarra, just wondering if you have had any further luck I've beens stuck for the past 6 months at the same place your previous posts have included (William is my 2x GG on my fathers line). Clearly William did not swim from Scotland and I have noticed that Isabella's family lived a short distance from Larbert so I'm wondering if somehow there was a family connection previous or if this was just a coincidence? Just trying to follow all leads at the moment. Unfortunately there is no grave marking at Melbourne Cemetry where they are both burried however I am determined not to give up. I went as far as contacting the local Presbretarian churches in the area yet none had any information on him. i have added a few pieces of information you may be interested in regarding more about William's time in Australia and his 6 boys.
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Has the information been taken from his death certificate? Not always a reliable source.
Have you searched on Scotlandspeople for his parents' marriage and his baptism/birth.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Do you have his 1888 marriage certificate? If so what was his father's occupation?
Info contributed to find-a-grave
William came from Stirlingshire Scotland sometime around 1888 where he came to Hamilton Victoria where he met his wife Isabella Henderson.
Have you considered he may have arrived in South Australia before travelling to Hamilton, Vic?
You may have to accept that there is no surviving record of Wm's arrival. Not all shipping manifests survive. I have a copy of an ancestor's diary which includes details of the journey to and arrival in Melbourne, Vic and the name of the ship. The family's name does not appear on the ship's manifest at PROV.
Have your searched all the FLEMING arrivals 1887-1888 at PROV? Some entries are simply Mr FLEMING and not all ages are accurate.
Cando
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Would your William FLEMING be the son of William 1807 and Jean 1815 born Kylsyth Stirlingshire in 1854? William Snr is a BARGEMAN.
Neil
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From another thread:
My great grandfather was William Fleming, he immigrated to Australia - about 1888.
William Fleming married Isabella Henderson, here in Australia, December 24 1888.
He gave his age as 33 years (b.abt 1855) - his occupation as Harness Maker - birth place, Larbert Stirling Scotland.
William's parents were William Fleming - contractor [and] Annie McLean.
Sarra
Debra :)
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Would your William FLEMING be the son of William 1807 and Jean 1815 born Kylsyth Stirlingshire in 1854? William Snr is a BARGEMAN.
Neil
No sorry, the William I am looking for was born in larbert Presbyterian background according to his marrage and death certificate he was born some time in 1855 to William Fleming and Annie McLean, I am aware that at the time he had moved out to Australia he was already a skilled saddler so i'm not sure if there are any records in scotland hidden somewhere about apprentices around that time period. He had 6 sons and the name William Fleming has been present within 5 generations that are known. However the first born of his sons was named Robert William Fleming Robert after his wife Isabella's 10 year old brother who died two years before the birth of their first son who also died aged 10.
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Could we please have Wm FLEMING's father occupation please? It would be detailed on the 1888 marriage certificate.
Information on certificates is not always accurate. Not unusual for a person to name a place of birth and to find later it was only the place the person was raised, not born. Just because information is on a certificate doesn't make it correct.
I can see no Wm FLEMING born c1855 Larbert, Stirlingshire with parents William and Annie on the 1861 census. It is possible that the mother's name wasn't Annie at all.
Are you reading all the replies? I've asked you a number of questions and would appreciate a response ie if you have the information. We are trying to help you.
Cando
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William Fleming born c1855 Larbert, Stirlingshire's father William Fleming was listed as a Contractor with no further details, in the Fleming/Henderson Family tree book there is also mention of William Fleming and Annie McLean as the parents however I am lead to believe the information was gained the same way as my own research through the marrage and death certificate.
I have exhausted every search engine I am aware exists however I may have missed one or two and I've spoken to the local larbert prespretarian churches with no record. i have also contacted the vast majority of cemetries in Stirlingshire however none have come up with a possible match for his parents William and Annie, I have found nothing through scotlands people and it seems after having come into contact with previously unknown relatives on the Fleming line in the past few years that we are all stuck at being unable to find his records back in Scotland.
My family tree can be found at http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/77701155/family if this can provide any clues.
The names of their sons may give some clue as to what's going on however I'm more than happy to email through a copy of their marrage and death certificates. The death certificate information for William born 1855 was information given to the coroner by Isabella which leads us to believe he imigrated the same year they got married. Certificate number (7761). They married 24th December 1888 and had their first son 18 July 1889 in Danenong Victoria before moving to Drouin where they resised until moving to Fitzroy after a fire which started in William saddelry shop burning down 11 business and a few years later loosing the family 11acre farm due to no fault of their own.
1st Son - Robert William Fleming (named after Isabella's brother who passed away two years earler)
2nd Son - William Thomas Fleming
3rd Son -Earnest Henderson Fleming
4th Son - Alexander Stirling Fleming
5th Son - Arthur Baxter Fleming
6th son - Clarence Lamont Fleming (Lamont was a surname from the henderson line)
I have not found any relation in our family tree to where the name baxter has orginated from. Alexander is also the name of one of Isabella's brothers may be a relevance however this has not been confirmed. The biggest puzle regarding the names of the 6 sons retains around my great grandfather Arthur Baxter Fleming in which we are unable to find any connection with either Arthur or Baxter in our family tree may not however have any signifigance.
The information on find a grave was posted by my family we obtained the records from Melbourne General Cemetry after aquiring a copy of the death certificates. There are no headstones however the grave site was confimred by the cemetry office.
I also agree it is very likely that William was born elsewere yet raised in Stirlingshire, There is no record of his baptism in Larbert however he did attend Drouin Presbyterian in the late 1800's. I'm a little stumped without paying huge sums of money to a pofessional geneologist in Scotland with no guarantee of any results as to where to search from here.
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Welcome lea_f
You mention you have the 1888 marriage certificate for William FLEMING and Isabella HENDERSON. May I suggest that you type up all the information from the actual registration and share it here. There’s quite a few regulars who have excellent skills, particularly with Victoria BDM documents. Vic BDM documents are usually full of information, and Marriage certs are first hand information, so William should have provided information about not just himself, but his parents, including his Dad’s occupation.
Vic BDM online gives the reference no. as 7761. https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home
May I also mention, particularly to help lea_f, if you wish to contact Lea Fleming who joined RChat 31 March 2015, you will need to make a couple more posts, even though you joined RChat 27 March 2015, before the Personal Message system will be fully functioning. The PM system could help you swap email addresses, so that you could share documents etc, not just with each other, but also with the original poster, sarra.
JM (NSW centric).
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Sorry I am Lea Fleming however there have been some unusaul issues with my login which has prevented me from loging in so depending on wether I'm logged in from my phone or my laptop I come under both this and Lea Fleming.
The Marrage Certificate details are as follows:
William Fleming born Larbert, Scotland. Age 33 occupation Harness Maker
Fathers occupation: Contractor
Isabella Henderson, Hamilton Victoria. Age 24
Fathers occupation: Labourer
Fathers name: William Fleming
Mothers Name: Annie McLean
Residence Dandenong
Witnesses: William John Henderson and Mary Henderson.
Date of marrage 24th December 1888, Danenong Victoria.
Registration number 7761 page 118 register number 16.
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Oops, I didn't realise. :)
Thanks for typing up that information. Did the document state Bachelor and Spinster or give a different status? And did it note the denomination (according to the rites of) and the clergyman's name. In my NSW research I have sometimes come across the respective clergyman's diary and read through the notes made when interviewing the couple when they initially sought an appointment to marry.
I expect some of the other RChatters will have better understanding of the processes in that era in Victoria.
JM
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Yes the marrage certificate dose say spinster for Isabella and Bachelor for William the name of the minister is Reverend William MacDermid. Married at Danenong Persbyterian Church.
From previous records I can state that Isabella's Family are also from Scotland whilst Isabella also known as Isabel was born in Hamilton Victoria her parents resided in Scotland before imigrating to Australia. Her parents names were Daniel Henderson (April 30 1812 - Feburary 16 1894) born in Paisley Renfrewshire and MaryAnn Lamont (abt1832 Ireland -31 August 1906) Hamilton Vic a.74 #9305.