RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Maddie on Wednesday 11 April 07 11:24 BST (UK)
-
Hi
Could someone help me with a dilemma please. Would it be possible to check the 1871 Scotland for a Michael Giblin in Edinburgh.
He was born c1852 in Ireland & his father was James Giblin a farm servant per Michaels marriage in 1874.
I thought I had found him & downloaded the census from S/P only to find that this chaps father was a John Giblin, paper mill worker.
Has any one come across mistakes on the marriage lines, could the wrong fathers name have been entered. ???
Any ideas are welcome.
Maddie
-
Hi Maddie
The only one that is instantly seen is the same as yours but John Giblin is listed as 62
with children 22 18 and 16. I'm wondering if perhaps he is the grandfather of any of them? (But they do say son son and daughter).
Were they in Scotland in 1861?
Trish
-
Hi Trish
Oh, now that's a thought, I hadn't consider a grandfather. :-\
I couldn't see them in the 1861 but I might have missed them. Other info that I have is that Michael's father "James" was the only one who was still alive at the time of his marriage in 74 & that his mothers name was Ann Giblin nee Conway.
I did spot a death for an Ann Giblin/Conway in 1862, Duddington, on S/P but didn't download it as I wasn't sure.
I'm grateful for any ideas & help.
Maddie
-
I didn't see any possibles at a glance in 1851 - and as you've no doubt seen, there was no mother with this family in 1861, so perhaps there is another group badly transcribed. Is it possible they didn't arrive in Scotland until after 1861?
Trish
-
Hi Trish
Unfortunately I have no idea when they arrived in Scotland & it's quite possible it was after 61. I know there is no mother on the census in 71 but I didn't know she wasn't there in 61 either.
Strange thing is the Michael on the 71 with the "father" John is a carpenters apprentice & on his marriage he is a joiner journeyman the same as on the 81.
Michael's first son was also named John. :-\
Thanks again for your help, I shall keep the grandfather idea in mind.
Maddie
-
Hi Trish
Unfortunately I have no idea when they arrived in Scotland & it's quite possible it was after 61. I know there is no mother on the census in 71 but I didn't know she wasn't there in 61 either.
Forgive me, I have got confused with 61/71 - I haven't found them in 61. The father could well have been working on a farm in 1874, but the name change from James to John does seem to indicate a different person.
Do you have Michael in 1891. I was just looking at the children. First daughter is Jane Anne. First son John, second son James. Could there be confusion with his father-in-law being James, rather than his father? (Just thinking aloud here - probably not very useful). I was hoping to find some parents/inlaws on the later census, but no joy.
I just found 1901 (Gibbin) - living with them is sister Ann aged 55 - in 1871 Ann was listed as 22 I think, so close. If you don't have the details, let me know (Micael is still a Joiner Journeyman)
Trish
-
Hi again Trish
I did wonder if you had the 61 & 71 confused, no problem.
I have got the info for 91 & yes the first 3 children do seem to match the parents names.
Mary Giblins parents were Jane nee Johnston & James Hoey a gardener, both deceased at the time of marriage. ( Another huge brick wall )
Michael's parents were Ann nee Conway & "James". Ann being deceased.
I don't have the 1901 info & that sounds interesting. The fact that there is a sister Ann does correspond with the 1871. It's certainly looking as if there is a mistake on the marriage lines.
It doesn't help with them being Irish born, does it, I guess I'm going to have to try & find Michael's birth record to be sure of his parentage.
I'm not having a lot of success with these folks with the Irish & Scottish connections, not to mention the fact that Mary Giblin was born in Georgia USA & appeared in Edinburgh in 71 from knowhere without parents. :'(
I would appreciate the 1901 details if you don't mind.
Thanks again for your help.
Maddie
-
Hi Maddie
This looks like mother Ann's DC on SP:
1862 GIBLIN ANN CONWAY U DUDDINGSTON LANDWARD EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 684/02 0015
Maybe another source to verify husband/father's name.
Regards.
Monica :)
Added: I've just re-read and seen that you are aware of this entry. It's the only one coming up with those names, could well be worth a look at least to discount it. The age is showing as 'u' unrecorded but will show on the actual image.
-
Hi Monica
Thank you, yes, I had spotted that death but as I'm new to S/P & it seemed to be running away with my credits I decided to hang on & try to get more conformation.
Now that you have have also picked it as likely I will download it & fingers crossed it's the correct lady. :)
Thanks again for your help.
Regards
Maddie
-
Hi Maddie
Just had a quick look at Michael's DC which shows father as JOHN....so, looking likely that a mistake was made with his father's name on his MC. This then, as has already been discussed, would fit with the names of his children.
1933 GIBLIN MICHAEL M 81 ST ANDREW EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/02 0073
Hopefully, the DC for the 1862 death of an Ann Giblin/Conway will also show John for husband ;)
Regards.
Monica
-
This looks a possibility in 1881 for father John and daughter Ann (who shows with brother Michael perhaps) in later censuses:
John Giblin 76, Paper Mill Labourer, b. Ireland
Ann Giblin 30, general servant, b. ireland
Address: 18 Pipe Str. Lane, Duddingston, Midlothian
Leaving aside (for a mo!) the issue of age going up and down, this is the only death of a John Giblin in the right age group, so happens also in the right place:
1882 GIBLIN JOHN M 67 DUDDINGSTON AND PORTOBELLO EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 684/01 0027
Regards.
Monica
-
Thank you so much Monica.
That is good of you to look at Michaels DC. Now why didn't I think of that. ::)
Mind you, I didn't realize Scottish certs gave so much info on them. So with the DC's for John & Ann Giblin I should get their parents also. :)
That would be them on the 1881 then. I do actually have the 81 Scottish census on my discs so had found them before.
I'm really grateful to you, now if I could only find the parents of Michaels wife Mary Agnes Hoey, that would be the icing on the cake. :D
Many thanks.
Maddie
-
I've just had a quick look at John snr.'s DC and that is the clincher...son Michael reported the death ;)
With Mary Hoey, I would start probably in America/Georgia. Have you tried putting up a post on the emigrants board for a look up on the US 1851/61 censuses for the family? www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,136.0.html
Regards.
Monica
-
You are a star, many many thanks.
Regards Mary, I have put a post on the American board & Kath MC kindly looked for me but alas, no sign of the Hoey/Hoy's in 61 with a daughter Mary Agnes or 51 for any James & Jane. They are a mystery. It would help if I could find when Mary A returned to Scotland/England. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any ships passenger lists for a return journey. :-\
As both her parents are deceased on her marriage I hoped I would find them on SP but no luck. I don't have enough info to narrow down all the James Hoey DC & I couldn't find a Jane Hoey nee Johnston any way.
They could have died any where. :-\
Again, thank you for your brilliant help.
Regards
Maddie
-
Hi Monica
Just to let you know, have downloaded Ann Giblin's DC & YES, her husband was John. ;D
Now I have to put more credits on SP. ;)
I think I'm getting somewhere. :)
Best wishes
Maddie
-
Hi Maddie
It seems while I was sleeping Monica has found lots of good information. Nice to see. I would like to ask her how one "has a quick look at a certificate" . Living in Australia I am used to having parent names in BDM indexes, but I have found in Scotland I often have to download a couple before I find the correct one - if there is an alternative method I would love to know what it is.
Apologies I didn't mention the Scottish certificates - the only ones I have seen with more information are Australian - they tend to have similar (and sometimes more) than the 1855 Scottish certificates. I have only bought one English death certificate - they do seem to have very little information. Did you get names for Ann's parents on her death certificate? Hopefully that may help.
Here is the 1901 transcript
Edinburgh St Cuthbert : 18 Saunders St
Michael Giblin 48 head Joiner Journeyman born Ireland
Mary A 44 wife born America
Mary A 20 daur dressmaker
Michael 18 son Apprentice Painter
Elizabeth 15 daur shop girl
Margaret 13 daur scholar
Mary A 10 daur do
George 8 son do
Raymond P 4 son
Ann Giblin 55 sister visitor born Ireland
All the children born Edinburgh Midlothian
Trish
-
Hi Trish
I seem to have used the expression "had a quick look" more than once in my last couple of posts ::) Just fortunate to get the right certs. on SP on first try!
Regards.
Monica :)
-
Hi monica, Trish & Maddie,
Been following the posts, and I am still not sure about John' death aged 67, we found him aged 76 with daughter Ann in 1881. Should the age on death certificate show 77 not 67. I have printed everyhting out to check, here is what i am working off
1862 Ann Giblin nee Conway died Edinburgh 684/02 0015
1933 Michael Giblin age 81 died Edinburgh 685/02 0073 Father John
1882 John Giblin age 67 died Edinburgh 684/01 0027 ??
In 1871 census at 20 Pipe Street, Portobello, Edinburgh EH15,
John Giblin 62 b 1809 Ireland Paper Mill Labourer
Ann Giblin 22 b 1849 Ireland
Michael Giblin 18 b 1853 Ireland Carpenters Appr
James Giblin 16 b 1855 Ireland Paper Mill Labourer
In 1881 census, at 18 Pipe Street Lane, Portobello, Edinburgh
John Giblin 76 b 1805 Ireland Paper Mill Labourer
Ann Giblin 30 b 1851 Ireland general servant
Also in 1881 census, at 6 Bedford Street Edinburgh EH4
Michael Giblin 28 b 1853 Ireland Joiner
Mary A Giblin 24 b 1857 Georgia, USA
Jane A Giblin 6 b 1875 Edinburgh
John Giblin 4 b 1877 Edinburgh
James Giblin 2 b 1879 Edinburgh
Mary A Giblin 3 Mo 1881 Edinburgh
In 1891 census, at 6 Bedford Street Edinburgh EH4
Michael Giblin37 b 1853 Ireland Joiner
Mary A Giblin 34 b 1857 Georgia, USA
Jane A Giblin16 b 1875 Edinburgh Asst in Biscuit Factory
John Giblin 14 b 1877 Edinburgh scholar
James Giblin 12 b 1879 Edinburgh scholar
Mary Agnes Giblin 10 b 1881 Edinburgh scholar
Michael Giblin 8 b 1883 Edinburgh scholar
Elizabeth Giblin 5 b 1886 Edinburgh
Margaret Giblin 3 b 1888 Edinburgh
Mary Alice Giblin 11 Mo b 1890 Edinburgh
In 1901, transcribed as Gibbin, AT 18 Saunders Street, Edinburgh EH3
Michael Giblin48 b 1853 Ireland Joiner
Mary A Giblin 44 b 1857 Georgia, USA
Mary Agnes Giblin 20 b 1881 Edinburgh Dressmaker
Michael Giblin 18 b 1883 Edinburgh Appr Painter transcribed as “Brickall”
Elizabeth Giblin 15 b 1886 Edinburgh Shop Girl
Margaret Giblin 13 b 1888 Edinburgh Scholar
Mary Alice Giblin 10 b 1891 Edinburgh Scholar
George Giblin 8 b 1893 Edinburgh Scholar
Raymond P Gibbin 4 1897 Edinburgh
Ann Gibbin 55 b 1846 Ireland Sister Visitor
Hope this helps
Tom
-
Very nice of you to do the lookups Monica :)
The summary makes things easy to track Tom. I did a freebie search on SP altering age at death & it doesn't return any hits for a death from 1881 to 1891 with age 70-90. if I leave out the age there are 5 hits - one in 1882, so it could well be a reverse of the digits when the index was created. A query to SP would get it corrected if wrong.
Trish
-
Hi to you all
A very big THANK YOU for all your help. Especially Monica, I think I owe you big time :)
Trish,
Many thanks for the 1901 & yes I agree, English certificates don't come close to Scottish & Australian ones for info, as I'm finding out. ;)
Ann Giblin's death cert does have her parents on it. She died at the age of 45 & both her parents were deceased at the time so now I seem to be getting into Irish records as John & Ann don't look as if they were in Scotland for the 61. ( oh strewth).
Tom,
I'm very grateful for the complete run down. All looks much clearer.
Although the death age for John is 67 I have a feeling it must be the correct one as everything else fits. As there certainly seems to be a mistake on the marriage lines for Michael's father, this could also be a mistake. :-\
I shall keep you informed of what I find once I get the cert.
Once again, many many thanks to all.
Maddie
-
Hi All
The detail on John Snr.'s DC all matches up apart from the age of 67 which is as shown on the DC:
- John is showing as widower to Ann Conway (dec.)
- His occupation is given as lab. in paper mill
- His address is as per the 1881 Census entry
- Michael son who reported the death is shown as living at the same address as per the 1881 entry with his family.
...So, other than his reported age, everything else would fit what we know of the family.
Regards.
Monica
-
HI Monica
Many thanks, once again I am in your debt.
I am very grateful for all help sorting out this dilemma. The answers where there all the time it was just knowing where to look. :)
Now I know I can get John's parents from his death cert I can get back further. (Hopefully :-\)
Best wishes
Maddie
-
I am researching the family of Mary Agnes Giblin daughter of Michael Giblin and Mary Agnes Hoey Giblin.
You mentioned you had the death Cert of Anne Conway Giblin dod 1862 but I can't find the names of Anne Conway's parents in any of your postings. This information should be on the death Cert.
In one Census Michael Giblin mentions Leitrim as his birth place.
I live in Dublin and I can check in the National Library the microfilm records to see if I can take this any further. There is a tree on Ancestry and it says the parents of John/James Giblin are Thomas Giblin and Sarah.
John/James had a sister Mary who also went to Scotland and married a John Marley.
There are quite a number of Giblins and Conways in the Leitrim, Sligo Roscommon area so any information on Anne Conway's parents would be helpful.
Regards,
Anne
-
Further to my last posting today I have discovered the tree on Ancestry has some errors. The Giblin Marley Connection is incorrect. There are 2 James Giblins who were born in Ireland c 1855 (both in the 1871 Scottish Census) and their information was mixed together. Therefore please disregard the Marley connection and therefore please disregard the names (Thomas and Sarah) as the parents of John/James Giblin.
If you do however have the death cert for John Giblin the names of his parents may be on it.
Regards,
Anne
-
Hi Anne
Goodness that's a blast from the past. :)
My research on the Giblin family was for a close friend to whom I passed on the information but I do still have a copy of the death cert for Ann Giblin, information as follows.
Ann Giblin died Oct 3 1862 aged 45 years of Typhus Fever.
Her father was Timothy Conway an Ag Lab deceased.
Her mother was Ann Conway maiden name Cull deceased.
John Giblin widow, present.
Hope this helps with your research.
Regards
Maddie
-
Hi Maddie,
Thanks for that.
It is for research for a friend of mine too.
regards,
Anne