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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: bitza on Saturday 07 April 07 17:56 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find information about the clan Mackay dating from 1215 onwards. What info I have found so far seems to be conflicting. My family decsend from the Mackay clan and i have been able to trace some way back but have now hit a block. Some people researching my line say we descend from Malcolm III, King of Scotland's son Ethelred, but I have info that says he was a monk and therefore would not have married nor had children. On the other hand others say that we descend from Martin MacEth, who supposedly left Stranaver and traveled to Galloway and started the Galloway MacKays. His father was Aodh MacEth. Now this story seems to be plausible.
Can anyone direct me to where I can find out more info on the history of the Mackay Clan?
Bitza
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There are some links on Electric Scotland which may prove helpful. I'm sure you know that much of what is written about Scottish clans is largely fiction Many people who bear 'clan' surnames have no blood link whatsoever. Basically be suspicious of any statements that cannot be backed up by a reference to a primary source. You could take a look at the National Library of Scotland online catalogue for ideas. If you can find details of books your local public libary should be able to borrow them for you through the inter-library loans system. While some of the clan research in North America leaves much to be desired there seem to be some really interesting developments there regarding verifying Scottish family origins through DNA analysis. Not to be confused with some of the recent genealogical light entertainment we have been subjected to on TV.
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Thanks Imber, I will have a look. Certainly the info on the internet is very conflicting and most of what I have found seems to come from America and is written in a very convincing manner until you research it further and find the conflicts in info!!
I have briefly looked at Electric Scotland, I will look at it in more detail. As for the DNA analysis I'm afraid I am a bit sceptical, I don't think the use of DNA can prove nor disprove any clan connection and from what I have seen (which isn't much, I admit) it would seem to indicate that we are all of mixed race anyway!! But thanks for the advice
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Hi
Glad you found that helpful. When I mentioned DNA I was referring to scientific research, not the nonsense we have seen on TV recently. Yes, we are all mixed to some extent but if the police can call on expertise and produce it as acceptable evidence that convicts criminals then why not family historians? Are we talking about a different DNA? I hope you are not thinking of research that produces comments such as "your ancestors came from North Africa about six thousand years ago". What I am referring to is work to prove links of actual surnames back to specific locations in far more recent history. A bit like people with certain surnames having webbed feet etc! The results are quite startling but tend not to get the exposure given to the more superficial claptrap we have seen recently.
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Hi
No I wasn't referring to the claptrap on the telly, but I do understand where you are comming from. I think a lot more research needs to be done before we can use DNA as conclusive evidence in family research. Also DNA doesn't give you the history of family roots, names, dates, occupations etc.
I must admit I do prefer trawling through records looking for my ancestors even when it gets very difficult and they seem to disappear off the face of the earth!!!
I have learnt so much in recent months and been in contact with lots of very nice and interesting people. It will however be interesting to see how the DNA route progresses. Have you tried it out or are you just keeping up with the research?
Bitza
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No, I don't see DNA replacing all the fun the you mention - it will probably turn out to be used in certain circumstances but always alongside the more traditional methods. Certain types of surnames, clan names etc may be more suited to DNA research? I don't propose to use it just now, for a start it's quite expensive! But I do have one Scottish family name in my tree that I know is the subject of a project such now and I might just be tempted at some point. My wife, who is not really into all this, just remarked to me that you can lose, gain, change, or mistranscribe a surname but you cannot alter your DNA. Interesting thought!
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Hi bitza :)
Greetings from another MacKay (or in my case, McKay) :D
Alot of Highlanders left Scotland forever during the clearances in the 18th/19th centuries. There are alot of Mackays/Mckays/etc. in the USA and a particularly large group in Nova Scotia I believe. The clan history, as you have found out, is debatable and because written records are not available for the earlier times, alot of it is very suspect. Some of the more convincing research I've found to date is at the following website:
http://www.geocities.com/mckyrbnsn/mclinks/gary1.html
...but it is by no means definitive.
There are alot of so-called "family historians" who seem less interested in history than in finding links to royalty, nobility and an ancestor that will take them back in time further than anyone else, which is why alot of the information available on the web should be treated as suspect until you have verified it with primary source material (if that's possible).
Personally, I think the best way with researching your Clan is to do what you would do for a non-Clan ancestor: trace backwards from what you know, rather than forwards from what you suspect. That's the only way to be sure (or at least as sure as it's possible to be!). I have traced my own McKays back to 1710 in Inverness, but I think it's just going to be too difficult to get much further back than that. I suspect that, as they moved slowly south-east from Inverness in the years following, they probably were doing the same thing prior to the 1700s, moving slowly south-east from the traditional lands in the north west.
Anyway, knowing I am a McKay and have strong links to that name over 300 years is enough for me, given that we know how the highlanders in general lived and were treated before that time. I would rather go in-depth into the families living later, about whom there is more information to be discovered, than trace back countless generations on what can only be rather tenuous links :)
Cheers!
Prue
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P.S. There is a McKay DNA project being run from the USA, info here:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/MackayDNAproject/
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Hi Prue
Thanks Prue I will have a look. Basically I am trying to confirm another researcher's work who has researched my line back to Malcolm III, I have been able to agree upto 1700 and this is now where it begins to get difficult!!
I now have a fascination for the Mackay clan history rather than whether or not we are a direct blood relative and it will be interesting to see how far back I am able to get!!
Bitza
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Hi Bitza,
My family were/are Morrisons from Lerin (near Durness) and it seems that about every second Morrison married a MacKay. Consequently, I have had an interest in the MacKays for many years.
There are two very interesting, and useful, books that I suggest you try to find. They are:
"History of the House and Clan of Mackay" by Robert Mackay of Thurso; and
"The Book of Mackay" by Angus Mackay.
I believe both are now out of print and your best bet for gaining access to them is a large public library or a university library. Both contain narratives of the clan history and genealogical accounts, i.e. that of the chiefs' line and the main branches of that line, ( the clan proper). I believe there are more people with the name of Mackay who are not related to the chiefly line than those who are.
The origin of the Mackay chiefs seems obscure and "authorities" cite different sources. Malcolm MacHeth (or MacEth) is often mentioned and clearly he was of royal blood. King Malcom MacKenneth is also mentioned frequently but I do not know of any source that is undisputed.
If you know which branch "your" Mackays are from, I could look in the forementioned books to see if your known ancestors are mentioned. You appear to have traced them as far back as 1700 and these books give fairly good detail from 1700 back to 1210.
Ian
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Hi Bitza- I'm wondering if your late 1700 and early 1800 McKay ancestry is connected to folks I have very little info on.
what I have is John Sutherland was born about 1812 to a Sutherland and a McKay. Mother McKay had 3 siblings Robert, Alexander, and Elizabeth. Mother and Father McKay died when John was young and John was raised by his uncle Robert who was a piper. They left Scotland for Nova Scotia in the 1820's. His other uncle. Alexander McKay left Scotland for South America about the same time.
Then John Sutherland married Mary McKay daughter of Marion McKenzie and Alexander McKay in Earltown Nova Scotia on March 18, 1846. Alexander had a brother William. He died in Earltown on May18, 1884 (how sad, he died on his wedding anniversary day after 38 years of marriage). I do not know when Mary McKay died.
Do you have any info on any of these McKays?
thanks
Emily
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Hi Emily,
This entry in the Durness parish register may be of interest to you:
John Thomson Sutherland christened 4 Apr 1812. Parents were Angus Sutherland & Barbara Mackay.
Angus Sutherland & Barbara Mackay were married 21 Dec 1811 and the PR entry states that Barbara was the daughter of Robert mackay of Saingo
The IGI only shows one Barbara Mackay born to a Robert mackay about the right time 30+/- and she was christened 10 Feb 1782 ; parents Robert mackay alias MacEanMacUilliamMacNeil and Janet Murray.
This alias came up recently for another lister but I cannot recall the circumstances
This seems worth further investigation.
Ian
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Oh Thanks Ian for your response. It really does look like Barbara and Angus could be the next generation up. I think I have seen the alias too now to find it again.
Thanks so much.
Emily
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I have been doing research for a couple of years and subscribe to Ancestry.com. I have done a DNA test as well. I would like to submit my results and compare results as well as family tree information.
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An excellent source of information on MacKay's for as far as can be traced is "The Book of MacKay" by Angus MacKay and "History of the House and Clan of MacKay" by Robert MacKay.