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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: eilidh on Monday 02 April 07 02:16 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to locate the following family who came to Queensland on the "Royal Dane" which arrived in Rockhampton 19th November, 1870. Story has it that daughter Eleanor drowned shortly after they arrived.
WRAN Thomas Vallance, Head, born 1832c
WRAN Eleanor, wife, born 1830c
WRAN Eleanor, daughter, born 1850c
WRAN Harry Walton, son, born 1851c
Sorry that the information is very scant, but it is all I have got at present. Any help locating any bdm's would be very much appreciated.
Many thanks
Helen
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hello there
only one mention on the pioneers index 1829-1889
Eleanor WRAN died 25/1/1871 reg no 1871/001092 aged 25
father Thomas Vallance Wran mother Eleanor Walton
hope this is of some help to you
Do you know if they stayed in Queensland?
regards jenn
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Hi,
I think all your action moves to New south Wales.
Use
http://www.nsw.gov.au
and you may be able to piece together your familiy's life events. No easy given not much info, but the names are there.
Also check
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au
for the enlstment of one Harry Walton Wran
Most likely a relative.
Sue
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Hello
there is a marriage in NSW
in 1873 reg no 1029
Harry Watton Wran married Susan J cook
they had the following children
3479/1874 WRAN UNNAMED HARRY W SUSAN J BALMAIN
3397/1876 WRAN ELEANOR S HARRY W SUSAN BALMAIN
3772/1877 WRAN HARRY B HARRY W SUSAN J BALMAIN
3888/1879 WRAN GEORGE HARRY W SUSAN J BALMAIN
4242/1880 WRAN JOSEPH HARRY W SUSAN J BALMAIN
4388/1881 WRAN LOUISA I HARRY W SUSAN J BALMAIN
death for
6992/1925 WRAN SUSAN J (-COOK) 74 YRS BALMAIN BALMAIN NORTH
10635/1914 WRAN HARRY W THOMAS V ELEANOR
regards jenn
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The one I found enlisting is a grandson of the first Harry w.
He marries Emily and she is his nok .
Sue
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on
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi
there is another searcher interested in your family.
There is an email contact available.
Sue
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Hi Sue & Jenn, many, many thanks, yes is the family. They obviously didnt stay too long in Queensland, moving to Balmain after Eleanor's death.
Really appreciate all your help
Helen
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Hi Sue & Jenn, many, many thanks, yes is the family. They obviously didnt stay too long in Queensland, moving to Balmain after Eleanor's death.
Really appreciate all your help
Helen
please bear in mind that there doesn't seem to be deaths for Thomas and Eleanor in NSW so they may have stayed in Qld.
re
modified by me Jenn
found this death that could be your Eleanor
11704/1900 WRAN ELEANOR RICHARD W ISABELLA BALMAIN NORTH
but no Thomas
regards Jenn
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Hello Jenn,
Following on with the info given to me by you and Sue I did locate on NSW register the death of Thomas's wife Eleanor in 1900 at Balmain. This was confirmed by a search on the Ryerson Index which lists her death 1 November 1900 aged 71 years at Balmain in Sydney Morning Herald published 07NOV1900. She was born in 1830c so ages tie in. Thomas V may have died in Queensland. By the way this is not my family, I am helping out a lady with her family research. I know she will be very pleased with the information you have all uncovered.
Once again many thanks for your assistance.
Helen
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I couldn't find Thomas V"s death in Qld to 1914.
Christine
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Hello Christine, I am leaning more to him dying in NSW, just have to find when and where. Many thanks for your help
Helen
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hello there
do you by any chance have thomas parents names please
regards jenn
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Sorry Jenn, unfortunately I do not know their names.
Helen
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Hi,
Assuming the family came from England?
Searching for a marriage of Eleanor Walton on Freebmd to Thomas not great success.
However this one is a bit interesting and may be a possibility
In the September quarter of 1870,
THOMAS VALLUM URAN
appears on the same page as
ELEANOR WALTON
St George Hanover Sq. 1a. 612
[ as you know, there is no definite way to tie the seperate partners together without further inquiries]
It is possible that they decided to tie the knot just before embarking for a new life?
On IGI there is a birth for Eleanor Walton in 1828, Isleworth , London.
The parents are Richard Walton and Isabella.
Where did the birth-date for Eleanor you have listed come from?
Sue
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Not sure if it helps - but this MAY be the family in 1861 - transcribed as Uran (Thomas E). It does look that it could be Uran or Wran & E or V ??? ???
Yorkshire south Dalton RG9/3572 20/5
Thomas ? Wran head mar 31 stone carver ? Chichester Sussex
Elleanor do wife mar 30 Isleworth Mdx
Henry do son 9 scholar Kensington Mdx
Eleanor Walton niece 11 Brentford Do (deaf & dumb from birth)
Seems to link to the marriage and birth found by Sue - with Eleanor Jnr being a niece
Trish
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1841 perhaps
1841 Middlesex New Brentford - address: Ham HO107/655/1 48/14
Richard Walton 45 Cordwainer N
mary do 15
Lucy do 14
Ellen do 11
Simon do 10
All the children born in county
I cannot at the minute find anyone suitable in 1851
Trish
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Hi Trish & Sue, just got back from helping my husband who is renovating a worker's cottage. Gave me the worst job, de-nailing all the tongue & groove boards >:( , who wants to be a renovator , back is aching, finger nails cracked, anyway enough of my woes :)
Sorry ladies I know very little of the family background. Like you I couldnt find anything on Free BMD or Family Search. I was told their names by the lady I am assisting. I also found their details on Queensland Archives site for assisted immigrant passenger 1848 and May 1884. The family came from London on the "Royal Dane" arriving Rockhampton 19/11/1870 and then onto Brisbane.
Eleanor aged 40
Eleanor aged 20
Harry aged 19
Thomas V* aged 38
Vallance.
Sue you could be right, perhaps they had to tie the knot, before being accepted as assisted immigrants by the Queensland Government. Their vessel departed Gravesend London on 30th July, 1870.
Your 1861 census Trish is interesting, the ages all fit in.
Bye for now
Helen
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That's interesting.
The indexes for immigration [online] do not actualy give the relationship of people to each other so Eleanor [deaf & dumb since birth] could well be a neice, as Trish found, not daughter.
The fact that her death entry lists those 2 as her parents is not necessarily the truth.
Also, there was a lot of 'free & easy' with ages in those records and I would venture to say that the birth I found for Eleanor [senior] is close to the mark.
The entry on Qld. Archives [online]only list V as Thomas midd. name.
Have you seen something else that
a)..gives it as Vallance?
b)..says they were a married couple.?
Sue
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Hi Sue,
I was given his middle name as Vallance by the lady I am helping. Also Jenn confirmed this with the death details of Eleanor (daughter / neice ) as follows;
only one mention on the pioneers index 1829-1889
Eleanor WRAN died 25/1/1871 reg no 1871/001092 aged 25
father Thomas Vallance Wran mother Eleanor Walton.
I have still not heard back from the lady I am helping. My suggestion would be for her to request a lookup on Ryerson Index for Eleanor's death notice in 1901. Hopefully it will reveal if she was a widow (or not) and perhaps give a little bit of family information.
It is truly amazing the information that is evolving. Many thanks.
bye Helen
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Oh Yes, I forgot that bit!
Happens to me when threads get long!
Sue
PS
Can't help thinking that if Thomas was a stone-carver per Trish's find, somewhere out there should be a wonderful head stone for him!
If only we could find it
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Pure speculation, but I would think Eleanor Jnr is probably the daughter of Eleanor (Ellen) but not the daughter of Thomas. The couple got together shortly after her birth, but didn't marry until prior to trip to Australia. I doubt that this can be proven - although a birth certificate for Eleanor Jnr may give some information
Trish
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MMMmm...
Yes, Taking the neice to Australia does seem a bit odd.
And, If she belonged to you, you would , as head of household, state her as Daughter
Wonder who father was.
Sue
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Hello Jenn, Trish & Sue,
Sarah, the lady I was helping with her family research, has asked that I pass on to you her many many thanks. Would you believe we were spot on with just about everything. BMD & Census etc. I was also able to find Thomas V in 1851, single, thereby confirming he was not married to Eleanor when Eleanor Jnr was born.
Sarah was also able to confirm the the death date of Thomas Vallance Wran as she has a Wran family tapestry which was made by his wife Eleanor, saying that Eleanor (the daughter) drowned in Queensland and that Thomas died on board the HMAS Victoria on the 7th of September 1891 and is buried in Aden, Arabia.
I would also like to add my personal thanks to you all.
Bye Helen
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Hello
I have information about the Wran family in Queensland in 1870-71 if anyone is still interested.
Elizabeth
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Hello Elizabeth
I would be intrested in any info you have on the Wran family in Qld,your last name is also a old name in the small community of St Lawrence Qld. The Wrans and Gooches lived in the same area.Would love to hear from you.
Kind regards
Jude
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Hello Jude
Great to hear from you.
Yes, I am descended from the Gooches of St Lawrence, also from the Usshers and Talbots who lived nearby. The Wrans were related to the Talbot family as Eleanor Wran (nee Walton) was the sister of Elizabeth Ann Talbot (nee Walton), wife of Philip Talbot.
My sister and I are almost finished writing a book on our Queensland ancestors based on the results of our research. We had no family information handed down so have spent several years tracing the lives of the various families in St Lawrence and also earlier.
We know that Thomas Vallance Wran and his family were the first of our connected families to settle near St Lawrence. They left for Balmain within a couple of years following the drowning of young Eleanor in the creek (probably Wran's Creek). The Talbots took up the selections that had been forfeited by Thomas Wran and his stepson Harry. A small cottage had been built on one of the blocks, marked as Wran's House on the land survey map.
Our Gooch forbears (Edward Barwon Gooch) took up land nearby and his father Thomas Gooch was the police sergeant in St Lawrence for a couple of years, before his retirement on invalidity grounds. Thomas and his wife Eliza lived in Hailsham cottage in St Lawrence.
If you know any more about the Gooches, Usshers or Talbots in the St Lawrence area, I would love to hear it.
Regards
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
Great, I figured you were probably a relative of the St Lawrence Gooches,I am researching a lot of old St.Lawrence families,and what a task I have taken on,I hope to in the future to put it all together.I do have some pics of Ramsden G Talbot,his daughters Kathleen,Colleen and Isabelle Talbot when Ramsden was manager on Waverley Station. I will look at my notes when I get time,but I do have some info on some of your families,what comes to mind Sarah Ussher had a boarding house in St.lawrence. The area your rellies lived in was called byfield,and the families there had their own private school,it was about 5 miles west of St.lawrence. There is also a creek called Gooches Gully.
Where do you live Elizabeth,Aus?Uk?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cheers
Jude
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Hello Jude
My sister and I are almost finished writing a book on our Queensland ancestors based on the results of our research. We had no family information handed down so have spent several years tracing the lives of the various families in St Lawrence and also earlier.
Regards
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth
When your book is finished, you ought to enter it in the QFHS Inc. Family History Award. This is for a story of a Queensland based family. Closes 30 November each year, first prize is a year's free membership plus a certificate.
If you want more info I can PM it to you.
Dawn M
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Hello Jude
Thanks for the tip. If we finish soon enough, we'll consider entering this year. Did you receive the email I sent to your personal email address through RootsChat?
Regards
Elizabeth
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Sorry Dawn, I should have looked more carefully at who the message was from. Yes, I would like to receive more information about the competition through the personal email function
Thanks
Elizabeth
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Hello Jude
I am replying via the RootsChat forum as well as personally because I'm not sure if you receive my personal messages sent via RootsChat.
Yes, Pam and I have discovered Trove and found it a goldmine of family history information. As you mentioned that there was an article about the drowning of Eleanor Wran, I had a look and found one (attached) which was also reproduced in other places such as Melbourne.
William Conyngham Ussher was the son of Sarah (nee Talbot) and Henry Ussher. That means he was Philip Talbot's grandson. Philip also left property to Colin Campbell Cameron, another grandson.
Sarah and Henry Ussher moved to Mount Morgan, as did their daughter Elizabeth Annie Ussher and her husband Edward Barwon Gooch. Elizabeth and Edward Gooch were my great grandparents. I knew that they had lived at Yatton as my grandfather, Percy, had been born there, with his father a publican at the time. My father was born in Mount Morgan.
I didn't know that Sarah Ussher had been a partner in Joe Butler and Co cordial company. Very interesting. How did you come across that information? It seems there is a bit I don't know about Sarah as you also told me that she had a boarding house in St Lawrence.
Any more interesting items of information that you recall would be most appreciated.
Regards
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
I too am Elizabeth Gooch, I think we're first cousins, I'm Tom's youngest daughter.
Google is a marvelous thing - I've enjoyed finding this post and look forward to reading your book.
Cheers
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
Thanks for replying so quickly. As a new user I don't seem to be able to reply to your personal message directly in this forum. I'm actually at the Gold Coast but will be coming up to Brisbane on the weekend. If you'll still be around I'd love to meet you.
Cheers
Elizabeth