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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 17:15 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Does anyone have information about the ancestry of AGNES RAE, born Feb 14, 1798 in Kinnettes? Her father was Alexander.
On Aug 28, 1814, she married WILLIAM JOHNSTON, (born 1786).
She died Oct 31, 1888, 9 Green Street, Forfar
Thanks, Kathleen
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A continuation --
Children of Agnes Rae are: DAVID, b. 1821; JANE, b. 1825;
WILLIAM, b. Dec 17, 1833; ALEXANDER, b. 1835; JOHN, b. 1838; GEORGE, B. 1841, all in Forfar area.
WILLIAM's first wife, ISABELLA KIDD, b. May 9, 1832, in Chrichen, Dunichen, died three years after they married.
Date of death is Feb 28, 1858.
Their children: MARY JOHNSTON, b. 1855, Parish of Eassie & Nevay, d. Aug 18, 1906, Mount Pleasant, Monifieth. On June 19, 1874, she married David McIntosh, b. 1854
DAVID KIDD JOHNSTON, b. 1856, Templeton, Newtyle. Nothing more so far about him.
WILLIAM JOHNSTON, b. Oct. 30, 1857, Parish of Eassie & Nevay, d. Nov 14, 1925, Colliston, St. Vigeans, Arbroath. Married ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD, May 28, 1886.
My question? Does anyone have information about the ancestry of AGNES RAE, ISABELLA KIDD, and BARBARA RAMSAY, mother of ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD? -- or further information about DAVID KIDD JOHNSTON?
Thanks, Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen
Just filling out some of the lines. Firstly, there are possible siblings to Agnes Rae showing on the OPRs. There are a number of entries either with just Alexander Rae as father or Alexander and mother's name Elizabeth Ramsay:
1. MARGARET Christening: 29 JUL 1794 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
2. JAMES REA Christening: 16 NOV 1795 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
3. AGNES REA Christening: 14 FEB 1798 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
4. ELIZABETH REA Birth: 03 MAY 1800/ Christening: 04 MAY 1800 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
5. DAVID REA Birth: 02 JUL 1802/ 05 JUL 1802 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
6. ALEXANDER RAE Birth: 11 SEP 1804/ Christening: 16 SEP 1804 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
7. WILLIAM REA Christening: 10 APR 1807 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
8. JEAN REA Christening: 15 JAN 1810 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
9. ISABEL REA Christening: 22 MAR 1814 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
Is there no information on Agnes's DC in 1888 to confirm her mother's name?
Regards.
Monica
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In respect of Agnes and William Johnston's children, going by the OPR entries to parents with those names, there are probably a few more children than show above following their marriage in 1814. A few early deaths of children would account for the use of the name again for a subsequent child:
1. MARGARET JOHNSON Birth: 04 FEB 1815/ Christening: 06 FEB 1815 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
2. BELL JOHNSON Christening: 07 JAN 1821 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
3. ELIZABETH JOHNSON Birth: 29 DEC 1822/ Christening: 04 JAN 1823 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
4. DAVID JOHNSTON Birth: 07 MAR 1825/ Christening: 15 MAR 1825 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
5. ANN JOHNSTON Birth: 27 MAR 1827/ Christening: 01 APR 1827 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
6. DAVID JOHNSON Birth: 21 MAR 1829Christening: 29 MAR 1829 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
7. JAMES ERSKINE JOHNSTON Birth: 24 MAY 1831/ Christening: 05 JUN 1831 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
8. WILLIAM JOHNSTON Birth: 17 SEP 1833/ Christening: 25 SEP 1833 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
9. ALEXR. JOHNSTON Birth: 01 MAR 1836/ Christening: 20 MAR 1836 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
Regards.
Monica
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A few census entries. Looking at the children you have included above, you probably already have the 1841 entry.
1851:
William Johnston 64, H L W (linen), Kirry Mine, Forfarshire
Agnes Johnston 53, b. Kinnettles, Forfarshire
Elizabeth Johnston 28, H L W (linen), daughter, b. Kinnettles
Jean Johnston 26, daughter, b. Forfar
Ann Johnston 24, H L W (linen), daughter, b. Forfar
Agnes Johnston 8, daughter, b. Forfar
Ann Langlands 6, granddaughter, b. Forfar
Eliza R L Wilkie 1, granddaughter, b. Forfar
Address: South Kingsmuir, Forfar
1861:
William Johnston 74, b. Kirriemuir
Agnes Johnston 63
Elisabeth Johnston 36
Jean Johnston 34
Ann Johnston 32
Agnes Johnston 18
Elisa Wilkie 11
Agnes McNicoll 4, granddaughter, b. Forfar
Flora Cardean 9 Mo, granddaughter, b. Eassie
Margaret Cardean 9 Mo, granddaughter, b. Eassie
Address: South Kengsmuir, Forfar
And the 1871, with William Snr probably having died:
Agnes Johnston 73, head
Agnes Johnston 28
Ann Johnston 44
Jane Johnston 46
Agnes McNicoll 14
Margaret Cardean 10
Address: 10 Village Of Loar, Forfar
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While there is no mention on the OPR for Agnes of a mother there is one listed for the mother of David christened 5 July 1802 (Born 2nd July 1802) her name is Elizabeth Ramsey but I couldn't find a marriage of Alexander and Elizabeth
Best wishes
Mo
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Did William Johnston b. 1833 remarry the Isabella Anderson who shows in his household in 1861?:
WILLIAM JOHNSTON Marriages: Spouse: ISABELLA ANDERSON
Marriage: 07 DEC 1861 Airlie, Angus, Scotland
1861
William Johnston 27, ploughman, b. Forfar
Isabella Anderson 18, Domestic Servant & Ag Lab, b. Kirriemuir
Mary S Johnston 7, b. Forfar
David R Johnston 5, b. Newtyle
William Johnston 3, b. Eassie
Address: Newton West Cottages, Airlie, Angus
1871
William Johnston 36, farm servant, b. Forfar
Isabella Johnston 28, b. Kirriemuir
George A Johnston 8
James Johnston 4
Isabella Johnston 3
Agnes Johnston 7 Mo
George Leighton 11 Mo, nephew
Address: Mains Cottar House, Kinnettles, Angus
I can see a few possible entries in 1871 for children Mary, David and William working as farm servants in the county.
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Thanks for the information. I am working from a document prepared by a cousin who concentrated mostly on his line of the very large family.
Yes, William married Isabella Anderson and had a large family with her.
As is often the case, many of the women's names etc are missing, so I am determined to find them.
Please tell me what the OPRs are?
Regards, Kathleen
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OPRS are the old (Pre 1855) parish records, they are available on Scotlandspeople which is a pay per view website where the OPRs and also the Birth Marriage and Death certs are viewable.
For £6 for 30 credits you may view the images. One image is 5 Credits.
Best wishes
Mo
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Hi Kathleen
Excuse the dribs and drabs on the posts, I am just posting section by section as I find info. It also can help separate family lines for clarity.
The OPRs stand for the Old Parish Register, the main source of birth and marrige record before the start of official registration in Scotland in 1855. Have a look at this link here on RootsChat from Pam which details this area amongst other resources when researching in Scotland: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html
A possibility for David Johnstone in the 1891 census:
David Johnston 34, gardener, b. Newtyle
Elizabeth Johnston 27, b. Cortachy, Forfarshire
Jane H Johnston 1, Airlie, Forfarshire
Address: Gardyne, Kirkden, Angus
A possible marriage entry on Scotlands People which will hopefully let you confirm whether this is the son of Willam and Isabella Kidd:
1887 JOHNSTON DAVID OGILVY ELIZABETH CORTACHY AND CLOVA /ANGUS 278/00 0003
Regards.
Monica
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Thanks for all of this, Monica.
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi Monica,
An additional note -- Two of William Johnston and Isabella Anderson's sons are those mentioned in my post re Johnston Stores Ltd.
Regards, Kathleen
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Yes, I've been following that post - fascinating history!
Monica
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This looks like Isabella Kidd's birth entry:
ISOBEL KYD Birth: 09 MAY 1832/ Christening: 13 MAY 1832 Dunnichen, Angus, Scotland. Parents: Father: JAMES KYD Mother: MARY SUTTIE
Isabella's mother's name explains William and Isabella's first born's name including the middle name 'S' that shows in the 1861 census.
However, only Isabella's entry is showing, can't as yet find any siblings or more importantly, entries in the 1841/51 censuses. There's also no death entry showing for a Mary Suttie other name Kydd (with wildcards to pick up on spelling variants) after 1855 and the start of official reg.
Isabella's marriage cert will show whether her parents were still alive at the time of her marriage:
1855 JOHNSTONWILLIAM KIDD ISABELLA FORFAR LANDWARD /ANGUS 288/02 0001
Kathleen, you are fortunate, the registration is on 5 Jan 1855 (from IGI), just pipped into the start of official reg ;)
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Kathleen
Totally stuck on Isabella's line...so curiosity got the better of me ::) and I've had a quick look at her marriage cert. Sadly, and probably indicative of her early life, she didn't know the exact date of her birth or the names of her parents. The only clues to her background are the names of two witnesses to the marriage a Charles (I think, writing is faint) and James Kydd.
At least you have confirmation of her parents' names from the OPR entry for the registration of her birth and christening. If you decide to view the image on SP of the OPR entry, you might be lucky and depending what is on it, find out a bit more about James and Mary Suttie.
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Monica,
Another sad situation in my family tree. My maternal grandmother's father and two uncles were interns in a workhouse in England -- shades of Dickens!
Kathleen
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I've just realised we have a bit of a puzzle. If Isabella didn't know her birth details for her MC, she certainly remembered her mother's name when she called her first born by that name...one of those things that we will never figure out why! You also have the use of the name David Kidd Johnston for her second born son. So you have three Kidd/Kydd names to figure out David, Charles and James :-\
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I wonder if it's possible that she learned more about her family after she married.
I certainly have my work cut out for me and appreciate all the help.
Kathleen
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Mary Suttie Johnston's age on the 1861 Census shows as 7, that would make her birth in 1854...maybe just before her parents' marriage. I can't find an entry for her birth in 1855.
In respect of Elizabeth Ramsay Dorward, these look like her siblings. To parents John Dorward and Barbara Ramsay:
1. JOHN DORWARD Birth: 03 FEB 1854/ Christening: 09 APR 1854 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
2. WILLIAM DORWARD Birth: 14 DEC 1855 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
3. JAMES RAE DORWARD Birth: 30 AUG 1857 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
4. DAVID DORWARD Birth: 15 JUL 1859 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
5. ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD Birth: 11 NOV 1861 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
6. MARY ANN BALLA DORWARD Birth: 28 JAN 1864 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
7. PETER DORWARD Birth: 08 NOV 1865 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
8. ROBERT LAING DORWARD Birth: 29 APR 1868 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
9. CATHERINE LAIRD DORWARD Birth: 29 AUG 1869 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
10. MARGARET RAMSAY DORWARD Birth: 22 FEB 1871 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
11. GEORGE DORWARD Birth: 24 MAR 1872 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
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Can't easily find them in Guthrie in the 1871 Census, but this is the Dorward family in 1861:
John Dorward 27, ploughman, b. Lochee
Barbara Ramsay 26, b. Guthrie
John Dorward 7
William Dorward 5
James Dorward 3
David Dorward 1
Address: Kirkbuddo Burnside Monghamb House, Guthrie
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And Barbara Ramsay's birth details, actual extract from the OPRs:
BARBARA RAMSAY Birth: 06 JAN 1835/ Christening: 16 JAN 1835 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland. Parents: Father: JOHN RAMSAY Mother: MARY BALLA
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There are submitted details for the parents' marriage and John Ramsay's birth on IGI:
John Ramsay Birth: 1795 Tealing, Angus, Scotland
Marriages: Spouse: Mary Balla Marriage: 15 JUN 1833
There is also a John Ramsay, a farmer born in Tealing, and wife Mary living in Guthrie in the 1851 census with a big healthy family.
I'll post the entry tomorrow...it's getting late here and I'm off to bed before I start making mistakes :P
Night.
Monica :)
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Monica,
I hope you know how much I appreciate your amazing help with this.
Regards, Kathleen
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Kathleen
Below is the 1851 census entry for the Ramsay family in Guthrie, with Barbara still in the household:
John Ramsay 56, Farmer Of 48 Acres Employing 1 Man, b. Tealing
Mary Ramsay 42, b. Guthrie
Barbara Ramsay 16
Jane Ramsay 13
Elizabeth Ramsay 11
Peter Ramsay 7
Janet Ramsay 4
Andrew Ramsay 2
Robert Ramsay ?
David Welsh 19, blacksmith, b. Forfar
George Glendye 17, farm servant, b. Forfar
Address:Burn Of Kirkbudde, Guthrie
1861:
John Ramsay 66, Farmer Of 64 Acres Employing 3 Labourer & 1 Boy, b. Tealing
Mary Ramsay 52, b. Guthrie
Elizabeth Ramsay 21
Robert Ramsay 16
Janet Ramsay 14
Andrew Ramsay 12
William Ramsay 8
Jane Dargie 9, grandchild, b. Guthrie
George Howe 4, grandchild, b. Guthrie
Address: Kirkbuddo Burnside, Guthrie
As you can see from the address for parents, Barbara and family probably lived near by.
Regards.
Monica
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Mary Balla's details: To parents George BALLA and Elizabeth DOUGLAS, the following children show:
1. JEAN BALLA Birth: 22 JAN 1807/ Christening: 03 FEB 1807 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
2. MARY BALLA Birth: 08 SEP 1808/ Christening: 14 SEP 1808 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
3. ROBERT BALLA Birth: 21 MAY 1810/ Christening: 30 MAY 1810 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
Parents' marriage:
GEORGE BALLA Marriages: Spouse: ELIZABETH DOUGLAS Marriage: 01 SEP 1804 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
And Mary Balla's death entry on SP:
1882 RAMSAY MARY BALLA 74 GUTHRIE /ANGUS 291/00 0001
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Kathleen
I have found Barbara and John Dorward in the 1871 Census. From the index, I think the relationships are a bit mixed up so you may have to look at the original to verify. It looks like Barbara and John may have been living with her brother Robert (who shows age 16 in the 1861 Census). The name of his wife may also explain why John and Barbara called one of their girls Catherine Laird Dorward:
Robert Ramsay 26, Farmer 6 Ac Arable 1 Man 1 Boy, b. Guthrie
Catherine Layrd Ramsay 25, farmer's wife, b. Inverarity
John Dorward 37, agr. lab., b. Lochee
Barbra Ramsay Dorward 36, Labourers Wife, b. Guthrie
John Dorward 17, ploughman
James Dorward 13
Elisabeth Dorward 9
Maryann Dorward 7
Pether Dorward 5
Robert Dorward 3
Catherine Dorward 1
Margaret Dorward 1 Mo
Edward Galy 70, boarder, agr. lab. b. Glamis
Robert Garbay 4, nephew, b. Forfar
Address: Burnside, Guthrie
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My last one for now - give you a chance to go through everything and put it in order ::)
To help you flesh out the places and parish names, have a look at:
1. www.scotlandsfamily.com/gazetteer.htm - the county and parish maps links on the left hand side are brilliant.
2. To look at individual areas, have a look at www.old-maps.co.uk which provides old ordnance maps by place name (go through the gazetteer to Forfarshire and then the alpha listing of place names).
Have fun ;)
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Good morning and thanks again.
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen,
The info I have for David Kidd Johnston is
Married Elizabeth Ogilvy (Domestic Servant) of Littleton, Airlie on 2nd December 1887 at The Park, Cortachy, Angus, Scotland
Witnesses, John Ogilvy & Jane Duncan
1901 Census - lived at Muirside Farm, Inverarity with wife Elizabeth (m.s. Ogilvy) and children Jane Howe aged 11 and Annie aged 9
Died of carcinoma of the intestines, at West Mains of Turin farm, Rescobie, aged 77 years.
(courtesy of Scotlandspeople)
Cheers
Gordon
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Gordon,
Thanks for that. Are you finding at least some of the answers you wanted in this?
David Kidd Johnston was my Grandfather's brother, but the material I have showed nothing on him.
If you want more re my Father's generation, let me know anytime.
Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen,
Yes I think I have got the wrong Agnes Rea. If she WAS born in 1783 then I should have realised the she would not still be bearding children (George in 1841) at the age of 58.
David Kidd Johnston was also my grandfathers older brother
Yes, any info you have on your fathers generation will be extremely helpful
Thanks for the info
Cheers
Gordon
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Gordon,
Of course, I should have said 'our Grandfather..."
WILLIAM JOHNSTON was born 30 Oct 1857, Eassie Farm, Parish of Eassie & Nevay and died 14 Nov 1925 in Colliston, St. Vigeans Parish, Arbroath.
He married ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD, 28 May 1886 in Burnside, Kirkbuddo, Guthrie. She was born 11 Nov 1861 in Burnside, Kirkbuddo, Guthrie, and died 03 Mar 1914 in Colliston, St. Vigeans Parish, Arbroath.
William was Estate Factor at Colliston Castle. Some of the children were born in the Factor's cottage.
Children: BARBARA RAMSAY JOHNSTON, b. 10 Aug 1887, Kirkbuddo, d. 12 Dec 1961, Dundee.
MARGARET RAMSAY JOHNSTON, b. 16 Mar 1890, Burnside, Kirkbuddo, d. 18 Jan 1962
WILLIAM JOHNSTON, b. 17 Jan 1892, Carmyllie, d. 15 Nov 1966, Dundee
DAVID KIDD JOHNSTON, b. 04 Dec 1893, Carmyllie, d. 18 Dec 1953, Dundee
ELIZABETH DORWARD JOHNSTON, b. 30 Nov 1895, Dunnichen, d. 1985
FREDERICK JOHNSTON, b. 26 June 1898, Colliston Cottage, St. Vigeans Parish, d. 31 July 1917, France (Military Service)
GILBERT JOHNSTON, b. 04 Dec 1902, Colliston Cottage, d. 02 Dec. 1974, Dundee
CATHERINE LAIRD JOHNSTON, b. 28 Sep 1905, Colliston Cottage, St. Vigeans, d. 18 Dec. 1974, Dundee
JOHN CHAPLIN DORWARD JOHNSTON, b. 26 May 1908, Colliston Cottage, St. Vigeans, d. 26 May 1978, Dundee
More to come........
Kathleen
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BARBARA was a Shop Assistant in Dundee. Following the death of her Mother in 1914, her Father required her help with the younger children at home, so Barbara became 'Mother' in the family and she never married.
MARGARET married SNOWDON STEPHENSON, 03 Aug 1921 in Colliston, St. Vigeans Parish. He was born 14 Feb 1886 in Scotland and died 20 Nov 1937
DAVID married AGNES PENMAN NEISH, 04, Sep 1924 in Dundee. She was born 03 May 1891 in Glasgow, Scotland, and died 06 1957 in Dundee
ELIZABETH married GEORGE ANDERSON JR. JOHNSTON, 14 Aug 1929, in Dundee. He was born 29 Apr 1893 in Downfield, and died 01 May 1966 in Dundee
GILBERT came to Canada in Aug. 1929. He married KATHLEEN NORAH HACOCK 14 Jun 1933 in Toronto, Ontario. She was born 15 Nov 1914 in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and died 01 Nov 1999 in Campbellford, Ontario, Canada
CATHERINE married JAMES MAY CLELAND KNIGHT 30 June 1944 in Dundee. He was born 03 Jun 1905 in Scotland and died 04 Jun 1964 in Dundee
JOHN married JANET McNAUGHTON MILNE 25 Apr 1956 in Broughty Ferry, Scotland. She was born 1919 in Scotland
Kathleen
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My grandfather is third from the left
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Hi Gordon,
That's a wonderful picture, thank you. Do you know which store that is, or any of the other people?
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi
Is their any available information about George
Anderson Johnston's wife, Isabella Waddell Millar,
or John Johnston's wife Helen Kennedy -- their
ancestry?
Regards,
Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen,
The only info I have regarding Isabella Millar is from a copy of there wedding cert. from scotlandspeople.
She was 25 and a dressmaker, when she married George Johnston on 6th April 1886.
Her parents were Robert Millar (a Farmer) and Margaret Millar (nee Anderson) and lived at 230 Hilltown Dundee. Her mother was deceased before her marriage.
As far as Helen Kennedy is concerned I only have similar information.
From what I can read (very bad copy of cert) she was a 21 when she married to John Johnston on 8th April 1891, and also a dressmaker of 4 Airlie Terrace. Dundee, her parents were Henry(?) Kennedy a Tailor (Cutter) and Jane Kennedy (nee Thomson)
Sorry I don't have any more than that!!
Regarding the picture, I am trying to source the address of the store.
As I live in Aberdeen I am hopeful of getting down to Dundee in the next few weeks so that I can use the resources at the Tay Valley FHS, (of which I am a member) and I will have a good search for anything Johnston store-ish'
Finally thank you for all the information you posted regarding the other Johnstons, I can now fill in a few gaps in my data
Regards
Gordon
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Hi Gordon and Kathleen
These look like possible siblings to Isabella:
1. ANN WADDEL MILLAR Birth: 04 JAN 1860 Collace, Perth, Scotland
2. ISABELLA WADDEL MILLAR Birth: 29 JAN 1861 Collace, Perth, Scotland
3. JAMES WADDEL MILLAR Birth: 21 NOV 1865 Collace, Perth, Scotland
4. CATHARINE FRAZER MILLAR Birth: 27 NOV 1863 Collace, Perth, Scotland
5. JANE ANDERSON MILLAR Birth: 09 MAR 1868 Collace, Perth, Scotland
And likely entry for parents' marriage:
ROBERT MILLAR Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET ANDERSON
Marriage: 28 OCT 1859 Collace, Perth, Scotland
I wonder if mother Margaret had died by 1871:
Robert Willar 26, Farmer Of 193 Arces All 125 Employing 2 Men, b. Ewden Easter, Perthshire
Ann H Millar 11, b. Collow
Isabella H Millar 11, b. Collow
Catherine F Millar 7, b. Collow
James W Millar 5, b. Collow
Jane A Millar 3, b. Collow
Elizabeth William 12, FS
George Young 16, MS
Alexander Donald 19, MS
Augus H Donald 63, MS
Address: Flowerdale Par??, Collace
Peter Jack 14, MS
Regards.
Monica
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Possibly mother Margaret's death entry from SP:
1869 MILLAR MARGARET ANDERSON F 32 COLLACE /PERTH 340/00 0006
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Gordon,
Are there any other folks you need to know
about that I may have information for? As
mentioned, my recent posts are of information'
provided to a cousin by a genealogist.
Again, thanks for that wonderful picture.
Regards,
Kathleen
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Confirming Isabella's family from her birth place on the 1891 Census after she married George:
George A Johnston 28, Grocer & La Merchant, b. Airlie, Forfarshire
Isabella Johnston 30, b. Collace, Perth
William Johnston 4, b. Dundee
Maggie Johnston 2, b. Dundee
Robert Johnston 2 Mo, b. Mains
Address: The Grange, Mains, Angus
And Isabella, just born, with mother Margaret in the 1861 Census:
Robert Millar 46, Farmer Of 190 Acres, b. Fowlis, Perthsh
Margt A Millar 22, b. Collace
Ann W Millar 1
Isabella W Millar 2 Mo
Isabella Waddel 82, aunt, b. Liff Forfarshire
Jane Anderson 14, FS
Henry Brough 18, MS
Jessie Doctor 21, FS
Address: 1 Flowerdale, Collace
Gordon, If you want to follow up on Robert Millar's estate following his death, there looks to be a will for him on SP:
Millar Robert 24/05/1899 sometime Tenant, Farm of Flowerdale, Parish of Collace, thereafter residing at Rose Bank, Balbeggie, d. 14/02/1899 at Balbeggie, testate Perth Sheriff Court SC49/31/176
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
I thought I sent this before, but may not have hit the
post button.
Your help with this family project is truly appreciated.
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen
Pleasure :)
Helen Kennedy's parents are showing as Henry and Jane Thomson. Her birth details:
1. GEORGE THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 27 DEC 1855 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. HENRY KENNEDY Birth: 28 FEB 1858 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
3. ALEXANDER THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 23 JAN 1860 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
4. JANE FARQUHERSON KENNEDY Birth: 26 APR 1862 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
5. EUPHEMIA THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 04 JUL 1863 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
6. MARGARET THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 10 DEC 1865 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
7. HELEN GRANT KENNEDY Birth: 23 NOV 1868 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
8. JAMES MORRIS THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 05 JUL 1870 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Not sure whether Henry is away from home or deceased by now, but this looks to be the family's entry in 1871:
Jane Kennedy 36, b. Dundee
Alexander Kennedy 10
Euphemia Kennedy 7
Margaret Kennedy 5
Helen Kennedy 2
James Kennedy 8mo
Address: Pittencrieff Street, Dunfermline, Fifeshire
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Kathleen and Monica,
Thanks for all this Johnston info...........this is certainly helping me fill in a lot of gaps.
Kathleen,
I am still trying to get data on my grandfathers' Charles's brothers -Alexander Johnston(dob 07 Apr 1874) and Robert Peters Johnston (dob 14 Jul 1880)......................I know they are 3 of the 12 children of William Johnston and Isabella Anderson (his 2nd wife) but if you have any info it would be great.
(I'm off to watch the golf..........speak to you tomorrow)
Gordon
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Gordon
Just closing off on some of Helen Kennedy's info. This looks like Helen's parents' marriage:
HENRY KENNEDY Marriages: JANE THOMSON
Marriage: 31 DEC 1855 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
and from the 1881 Census:
Henry Kennedy 46, Tailor (Employing 2 Boys), b Dundee
Jane Kennedy 46, b. Dundee
Euphemia Kennedy 17
Margaret Kennedy 15
Helen Kennedy 12
James Kennedy 10
Address: 4½ Reform St, Dunfermline, fife
Enjoy the golf ;)
Regards.
Monica :)
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Hi Gordon,
ISABELLA ANDERSON (William's second wife) --
Farm servant, daughter of George Anderson,
agricultural labourer, and Mary Cownie --
b. Aug 27, 1842, Kirriemuir, d. June 22, 1919,
Kirkbuddo, Inverarity Parish. Married Dec 17, 186l
in Newton, Airlie. Alexander Johnston and Peter
Anderson were witnesses.
ALEXANDER JOHNSTON, b. Apr 7, 1874, Newmill, Eassie &
Nevay. A grocer, he married MARY MUDIE, b. 1877, on
Mar 22, 1905. She was a domestic servant, daughter of
Peter Mudie, blacksmith, and Elizabeth Mann. No
children or death dates are given in the material I have
ROBERT PETERS JOHNSTON, b. July 14, 1880 in Mosside,
Ingliston, Kinnettles, d. Aug 9, 1895, Bankhead, Guthrie,
Grocer. Cause of Death Tuberculosis/Peritonitis
I'll send more info on the offspring of William and Isabella later today.
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi Gordon,
More info re children of William and Isabella (Anderson) Johnston:
JAMES JOHNSTON, b. June 6, 1866, Airlie; occupation Customs House Officer; married Jessie Anderson
ISABELLA ANDERSON JOHNSTON, b. Dec 18, 1867, Airlie; occupation Domestic Servant; married in Guthrie, Dec 26, 1890 Alexander Sturrock, b. 1865
AGNES JOHNSTON, b. Aug 10, 1870, Airlie; occupation Domestic Servant; married in Kirkbuddo, Dec 11, 1891 William Stewart, b. 1870
JOHN JOHNSTON, b. May 29, 1872, Kinnettles, d. Sep 13, 1919, Guthrie; occupation Master Grocer; married April 8, 1891 in Dundee, Helen Kennedy, b. 1879
PETER ANDERSON JOHNSTON, b. Mar 8, 1876, Eassie & Nevay; occupation Grocer; d. Dec 17, 1945, Dundee
THOMAS JOHNSTON, b. June 25, 1878, Eassie & Nevay; occupation Farmer; married (1) Annie Johnston, (2) Dec 7, 1904, Montrose, Elizabeth Mudie, daughter of Peter Mudie
and Elizabeth Mann
JANE KIDDIE JOHNSTON (known as Jeannie), b. Apr 29, 1883, Lintrathen, Domestic Servant, married Dec 13, 1901,
Robert Mudie, b. 1876, son of Peter Mudie and Elizabeth Mann in Kirkbuddo
CHARLES JOHNSTON, b. Apr 15, 1888, Guthrie, Grocer; married Lovina Pattison
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen,
I have most of that info, but thanks for Alexanders and Robert Peters bits and pieces
Don't know if it was a typo, but my grandfather married a Lovina PATERSON (just in case it was misleading you)
Is there any Johnston info you are requiring, because I might be able to help you with some of the data I have retrieved from Scotlandspeople???.
Regards
Gordon
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Hi Gordon
The name given in the genealogy report was Lovina Pattison. However, there is no other information given about her or your grandfather except children's names of William and Charles -- no dates or locations mentioned
The report was based selectively upon one branch of the family, as I mentioned earlier.
Do you have more names and dates pertaining to the above?
Did you notice the corrected info re the Johnston Stores' new owners that I posted?
Regards, Katheen
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Hi Kathleen,
Charles Johnston born 15 April 1888 in Kirkbudo, Inverarity, Angus and died aged 49 on 28th July 1937, his wife Lovina Paterson born 22 Nov 1884 in Dundee and died on 3rd August 1953 aged 68.
If you require any further details I would rather I send then to you privately.
Regards
Gordon
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Hi Gordon,
Thanks for the info. I also prefer not to put facts about living relatives on a public board.
For your information, if you are interested, I was looking for and found my uncle Corporal Frederick Johnston's Casualty and Buriel Details from WWI. Buried in Belgium, my Father's brother was only 19 when he died. The two websites are CWGC::Casualty Details and www.findagrave.com
Regards, Kathleen
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Hi there everyone,
I have been away on holiday for a few days but there has been something niggling at the back of my mind about Agnes Rea.
Kathleen,
You stated at the beginning that Agnes Rea had the following children
DAVID, b. 1821; JANE, b. 1825;
WILLIAM, b. Dec 17, 1833; ALEXANDER, b. 1835; JOHN, b. 1838; GEORGE, B. 1841, all in Forfar area.
then later on Monica stated that
In respect of Agnes and William Johnston's children, going by the OPR entries to parents with those names, there are probably a few more children than show above following their marriage in 1814. A few early deaths of children would account for the use of the name again for a subsequent child:
1. MARGARET JOHNSON Birth: 04 FEB 1815/ Christening: 06 FEB 1815 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
2. BELL JOHNSON Christening: 07 JAN 1821 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
3. ELIZABETH JOHNSON Birth: 29 DEC 1822/ Christening: 04 JAN 1823 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
4. DAVID JOHNSTON Birth: 07 MAR 1825/ Christening: 15 MAR 1825 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
5. ANN JOHNSTON Birth: 27 MAR 1827/ Christening: 01 APR 1827 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
6. DAVID JOHNSON Birth: 21 MAR 1829Christening: 29 MAR 1829 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
7. JAMES ERSKINE JOHNSTON Birth: 24 MAY 1831/ Christening: 05 JUN 1831 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
8. WILLIAM JOHNSTON Birth: 17 SEP 1833/ Christening: 25 SEP 1833 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
9. ALEXR. JOHNSTON Birth: 01 MAR 1836/ Christening: 20 MAR 1836 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
the confusion arises with one William born on 17th December 1833 and another William born on 17th September 1833.
Now since I started my family tree, I have been going down the 17th September 1833 dateline.
A substantial amount of information which came from a granddaughter of James Johnston who was William and Isabella Johnstons sixth(?) child (born 1866)
And to that extent (my gg grandmother) Agnes Rea was born in March 1783 ???
What confuses me even more now, is that she (Agnes) would be 53 when she had her last child??
I will contact my other informant and ask if she can assist me with my confusion
Any help would be gratefully received.
Cheers,
Gordon
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Hi Gordon
I'm not sure if I have missed some info from a thread on the other post. The Agnes Rae that we found as wife to William and the census entries for 1841-61, have her as born c. 1798 in Kinnettles. This then ties up with the possible OPR birth entry for an Agnes Rae born on that date in Kinnettles (replies nos. 2 and 4). I'm not sure where the birth year of 1783 comes in, is this from info supplied to you by the other person researching this line?
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Gordon,
At the beginning of this posting, I was asking questions. My only reference at that point was the information sent by a cousin, and I needed more because there were many blanks and I needed to check some content in the report.
I am truly grateful for the help provided by Monica and others.
Agnes Rae was born Feb 14, 1798. On Aug. 28, 1814, she married William Johnston, born 1786. She died Oct. 31, 1888.
As shown in the records provided by Monica, William Johnston was born Sep. 17, 1833.
Regards, Kathleen
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Kathleen and Monica,
Yep, I've got the wrong Agnes Rea (she's caused me a few problems) , but as my contact said.........." its just been the wrong twig in the tree"
Thanks once again for the shove in the right direction
Cheers
Gordon
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Hi Gordon,
You are welcome.
Regards. Kathleen
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Carol,
Hope you find this helpful.
Kathleen
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Hi,
I know this post was a very long time ago but on the offchance - I found it on a google search. I am related to John Dorward and Barbara Ramsay via Catherine Laird Dorward. If anyone picks this up feel free it get in touch.