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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 17:15 BST (UK)

Title: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 17:15 BST (UK)
Hi,

Does anyone have information about the ancestry of AGNES RAE, born Feb 14, 1798 in Kinnettes?  Her father was Alexander.

On Aug 28, 1814, she married WILLIAM JOHNSTON, (born 1786).

She died Oct 31, 1888, 9 Green Street, Forfar

Thanks,     Kathleen

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 19:00 BST (UK)
A continuation --

Children of Agnes Rae are:  DAVID, b. 1821;  JANE, b. 1825;
WILLIAM, b. Dec 17, 1833;  ALEXANDER, b. 1835;  JOHN, b. 1838;  GEORGE, B. 1841, all in Forfar area.

WILLIAM's first wife, ISABELLA KIDD, b. May 9, 1832, in Chrichen, Dunichen, died three years after they married.
Date of death is Feb 28, 1858.

Their children:  MARY JOHNSTON, b. 1855, Parish of Eassie & Nevay, d. Aug 18, 1906, Mount Pleasant, Monifieth.  On June 19, 1874, she married David McIntosh, b. 1854

                         DAVID KIDD JOHNSTON, b. 1856, Templeton, Newtyle.  Nothing more so far about him.

                          WILLIAM JOHNSTON, b. Oct. 30, 1857, Parish of Eassie & Nevay, d. Nov 14, 1925, Colliston, St. Vigeans, Arbroath.  Married ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD, May 28, 1886.

My question?  Does anyone have information about the ancestry of AGNES RAE, ISABELLA KIDD, and BARBARA RAMSAY, mother of ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD? -- or further information about DAVID KIDD JOHNSTON?

Thanks,     Kathleen




                 
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 20:48 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen

Just filling out some of the lines. Firstly, there are possible siblings to Agnes Rae showing on the OPRs. There are a number of entries either with just Alexander Rae as father or Alexander and mother's name Elizabeth Ramsay:

1. MARGARET Christening: 29 JUL 1794 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
2. JAMES REA Christening: 16 NOV 1795 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
3. AGNES REA Christening: 14 FEB 1798 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
4. ELIZABETH REA  Birth: 03 MAY 1800/ Christening: 04 MAY 1800 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
5. DAVID REA Birth: 02 JUL 1802/ 05 JUL 1802 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
6. ALEXANDER RAE Birth: 11 SEP 1804/ Christening: 16 SEP 1804 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
7. WILLIAM REA Christening: 10 APR 1807 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
8. JEAN REA Christening: 15 JAN 1810 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
9. ISABEL REA Christening: 22 MAR 1814 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland

Is there no information on Agnes's DC in 1888 to confirm her mother's name?

Regards.

Monica

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 20:52 BST (UK)
In respect of Agnes and William Johnston's children, going by the OPR entries to parents with those names, there are probably a few more children than show above following their marriage in 1814. A few early deaths of children would account for the use of the name again for a subsequent child:

1. MARGARET JOHNSON Birth: 04 FEB 1815/ Christening: 06 FEB 1815 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
2. BELL JOHNSON  Christening: 07 JAN 1821 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
3. ELIZABETH JOHNSON Birth: 29 DEC 1822/ Christening: 04 JAN 1823 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
4. DAVID JOHNSTON Birth: 07 MAR 1825/ Christening: 15 MAR 1825 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
5. ANN JOHNSTON Birth: 27 MAR 1827/ Christening: 01 APR 1827 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
6. DAVID JOHNSON Birth: 21 MAR 1829Christening: 29 MAR 1829 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
7. JAMES ERSKINE JOHNSTON Birth: 24 MAY 1831/ Christening: 05 JUN 1831 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
8. WILLIAM JOHNSTON Birth: 17 SEP 1833/ Christening: 25 SEP 1833 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
9. ALEXR. JOHNSTON Birth: 01 MAR 1836/ Christening: 20 MAR 1836 Forfar, Angus, Scotland

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 21:14 BST (UK)
A few census entries. Looking at the children you have included above, you probably already have the 1841 entry.

1851:

William Johnston 64, H L W (linen), Kirry Mine, Forfarshire
Agnes Johnston    53, b. Kinnettles, Forfarshire
Elizabeth Johnston 28, H L W (linen), daughter, b. Kinnettles
Jean Johnston    26, daughter, b. Forfar
Ann Johnston    24, H L W (linen), daughter, b. Forfar
Agnes Johnston    8, daughter, b. Forfar
Ann Langlands    6, granddaughter, b. Forfar
Eliza R L Wilkie 1, granddaughter, b. Forfar

Address: South Kingsmuir, Forfar
   

1861:

William Johnston 74, b. Kirriemuir
Agnes Johnston    63
Elisabeth Johnston 36
Jean Johnston    34
Ann Johnston    32
Agnes Johnston    18
Elisa Wilkie    11
Agnes McNicoll    4, granddaughter, b. Forfar
Flora Cardean    9 Mo, granddaughter, b. Eassie
Margaret Cardean 9 Mo, granddaughter, b. Eassie

Address: South Kengsmuir, Forfar

And the 1871, with William Snr probably having died:

Agnes Johnston    73, head
Agnes Johnston    28
Ann Johnston    44
Jane Johnston    46
Agnes McNicoll    14
Margaret Cardean 10

Address: 10 Village Of Loar, Forfar
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: moscan on Sunday 01 April 07 21:29 BST (UK)



While there is no mention on the OPR for Agnes of a mother there is one listed for the mother of David christened 5 July 1802 (Born 2nd July 1802) her name is Elizabeth Ramsey but I couldn't find a marriage of Alexander and Elizabeth


Best wishes

Mo
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 22:26 BST (UK)
Did William Johnston b. 1833 remarry the Isabella Anderson who shows in his household in 1861?:

WILLIAM JOHNSTON  Marriages: Spouse: ISABELLA ANDERSON    
Marriage:  07 DEC 1861  Airlie, Angus, Scotland

1861

William Johnston 27, ploughman, b. Forfar
Isabella Anderson 18, Domestic Servant & Ag Lab, b. Kirriemuir
Mary S Johnston 7, b. Forfar
David R Johnston 5, b. Newtyle
William Johnston 3, b. Eassie

Address: Newton West Cottages, Airlie, Angus

1871

William Johnston 36, farm servant, b. Forfar
Isabella Johnston 28, b. Kirriemuir
George A Johnston 8
James Johnston    4
Isabella Johnston 3
Agnes Johnston    7 Mo
George Leighton 11 Mo, nephew

Address: Mains Cottar House, Kinnettles, Angus

I can see a few possible entries in 1871 for children Mary, David and William working as farm servants in the county.

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 22:32 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,

Thanks for the information.  I am working from a document prepared by a cousin who concentrated mostly on his line of the very large family.

Yes, William married Isabella Anderson and had a large family with her.

As is often the case, many of the women's names etc are missing, so I am determined to find them.

Please tell me what the OPRs are?

Regards,  Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: moscan on Sunday 01 April 07 22:36 BST (UK)
OPRS are the old (Pre 1855) parish records, they are available on Scotlandspeople which is a pay per view website where the OPRs and also the Birth Marriage and Death certs are viewable.

For £6 for 30 credits you may view the images.  One image is 5 Credits.

Best wishes

Mo
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 22:38 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen

Excuse the dribs and drabs on the posts, I am just posting section by section as I find info. It also can help separate family lines for clarity.

The OPRs stand for the Old Parish Register, the main source of birth and marrige record before the start of official registration in Scotland in 1855. Have a look at this link here on RootsChat from Pam which details this area amongst other resources when researching in Scotland: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html


A possibility for David Johnstone in the 1891 census:

David Johnston    34, gardener, b. Newtyle
Elizabeth Johnston 27, b. Cortachy, Forfarshire
Jane H Johnston 1, Airlie, Forfarshire

Address: Gardyne, Kirkden, Angus

A possible marriage entry on Scotlands People which will hopefully let you confirm whether this is the son of Willam and Isabella Kidd:

1887   JOHNSTON   DAVID   OGILVY   ELIZABETH   CORTACHY AND CLOVA   /ANGUS   278/00 0003

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 22:41 BST (UK)
Thanks for all of this, Monica.

Regards,    Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 22:57 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,

An additional note -- Two of William Johnston and Isabella Anderson's sons are those mentioned in my post re Johnston Stores Ltd.

Regards,    Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 23:01 BST (UK)
Yes, I've been following that post - fascinating history!

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 23:24 BST (UK)
This looks like Isabella Kidd's birth entry:

ISOBEL KYD  Birth:  09 MAY 1832/ Christening:  13 MAY 1832   Dunnichen, Angus, Scotland. Parents: Father: JAMES KYD    Mother: MARY SUTTIE

Isabella's mother's name explains William and Isabella's first born's name including the middle name 'S' that shows in the 1861 census.

However, only Isabella's entry is showing, can't as yet find any siblings or more importantly, entries in the 1841/51 censuses. There's also no death entry showing for a Mary Suttie other name Kydd (with wildcards to pick up on spelling variants) after 1855 and the start of official reg.

Isabella's marriage cert will show whether her parents were still alive at the time of her marriage:

1855   JOHNSTONWILLIAM    KIDD   ISABELLA   FORFAR LANDWARD   /ANGUS   288/02 0001

Kathleen, you are fortunate, the registration is on 5 Jan 1855 (from IGI), just pipped into the start of official reg  ;)

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 April 07 23:43 BST (UK)
Kathleen

Totally stuck on Isabella's line...so curiosity got the better of me  ::) and I've had a quick look at her marriage cert. Sadly, and probably indicative of her early life, she didn't know the exact date of her birth or the names of her parents. The only clues to her background are the names of two witnesses to the marriage a Charles (I think, writing is faint) and James Kydd.

At least you have confirmation of her parents' names from the OPR entry for the registration of her birth and christening. If you decide to view the image on SP of the OPR entry, you might be lucky and depending what is on it, find out a bit more about James and Mary Suttie.
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 01 April 07 23:52 BST (UK)
Monica,

Another sad situation in my family tree.  My maternal grandmother's father and two uncles were interns in a workhouse in England -- shades of Dickens!

Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 00:14 BST (UK)
I've just realised we have a bit of a puzzle. If Isabella didn't know her birth details for her MC, she certainly remembered her mother's name when she called her first born by that name...one of those things that we will never figure out why!  You also have the use of the name David Kidd Johnston for her second born son. So you have three Kidd/Kydd names to figure out David, Charles and James  :-\
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Monday 02 April 07 00:20 BST (UK)
I wonder if it's possible that she learned more about her family after she married. 

I certainly have my work cut out for me and appreciate all the help.

Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 00:28 BST (UK)
Mary Suttie Johnston's age on the 1861 Census shows as 7, that would make her birth in 1854...maybe just before her parents' marriage. I can't find an entry for her birth in 1855.

In respect of Elizabeth Ramsay Dorward, these look like her siblings. To parents John Dorward and Barbara Ramsay:

1. JOHN DORWARD Birth: 03 FEB 1854/ Christening: 09 APR 1854 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
2. WILLIAM DORWARD Birth: 14 DEC 1855 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
3. JAMES RAE DORWARD Birth: 30 AUG 1857 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
4. DAVID DORWARD  Birth: 15 JUL 1859 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
5. ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD Birth: 11 NOV 1861 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
6. MARY ANN BALLA DORWARD Birth: 28 JAN 1864 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
7. PETER DORWARD  Birth: 08 NOV 1865 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
8. ROBERT LAING DORWARD  Birth: 29 APR 1868 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
9. CATHERINE LAIRD DORWARD Birth: 29 AUG 1869 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
10. MARGARET RAMSAY DORWARD Birth: 22 FEB 1871 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
11. GEORGE DORWARD Birth: 24 MAR 1872 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 00:42 BST (UK)
Can't easily find them in Guthrie in the 1871 Census, but this is the Dorward family in 1861:

John Dorward    27, ploughman, b. Lochee
Barbara Ramsay    26, b. Guthrie
John Dorward    7
William Dorward 5
James Dorward    3
David Dorward    1

Address:  Kirkbuddo Burnside Monghamb House, Guthrie


Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 00:45 BST (UK)
And Barbara Ramsay's birth details, actual extract from the OPRs:

BARBARA RAMSAY Birth: 06 JAN 1835/ Christening:  16 JAN 1835 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland. Parents: Father: JOHN RAMSAY    Mother: MARY BALLA
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 00:53 BST (UK)
There are submitted details for the parents' marriage and John Ramsay's birth on IGI:

John Ramsay  Birth: 1795  Tealing, Angus, Scotland
Marriages: Spouse: Mary Balla    Marriage: 15 JUN 1833 

There is also a John Ramsay, a farmer born in Tealing, and wife Mary living in Guthrie in the 1851 census with a big healthy family.

I'll post the entry tomorrow...it's getting late here and I'm off to bed before I start making mistakes  :P

Night.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Monday 02 April 07 00:55 BST (UK)
Monica,

I hope you know how much I appreciate your amazing help with this.

Regards,   Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 10:35 BST (UK)
Kathleen

Below is the 1851 census entry for the Ramsay family in Guthrie, with Barbara still in the household:

John Ramsay    56, Farmer Of 48 Acres Employing 1 Man, b. Tealing
Mary Ramsay    42, b. Guthrie
Barbara Ramsay    16
Jane Ramsay    13
Elizabeth Ramsay 11
Peter Ramsay    7
Janet Ramsay    4
Andrew Ramsay    2
Robert Ramsay    ?
David Welsh    19, blacksmith, b. Forfar
George Glendye    17, farm servant, b. Forfar

Address:Burn Of Kirkbudde, Guthrie

1861:

John Ramsay    66, Farmer Of 64 Acres Employing 3 Labourer & 1 Boy, b. Tealing
Mary Ramsay    52, b. Guthrie
Elizabeth Ramsay    21
Robert Ramsay    16
Janet Ramsay    14
Andrew Ramsay    12
William Ramsay    8
Jane Dargie    9, grandchild, b. Guthrie
George Howe 4, grandchild, b. Guthrie

Address: Kirkbuddo Burnside, Guthrie



As you can see from the address for parents, Barbara and family probably lived near by.

Regards.

Monica



   
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 10:40 BST (UK)
Mary Balla's details: To parents George BALLA and Elizabeth DOUGLAS, the following children show:

1. JEAN BALLA  Birth: 22 JAN 1807/ Christening: 03 FEB 1807 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
2. MARY BALLA Birth: 08 SEP 1808/ Christening: 14 SEP 1808 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland
3. ROBERT BALLA Birth: 21 MAY 1810/ Christening: 30 MAY 1810 Guthrie, Angus, Scotland

Parents' marriage:

GEORGE BALLA  Marriages: Spouse: ELIZABETH DOUGLAS Marriage: 01 SEP 1804  Guthrie, Angus, Scotland

And Mary Balla's death entry on SP:

1882   RAMSAY   MARY   BALLA   74   GUTHRIE   /ANGUS   291/00 0001
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 11:09 BST (UK)
Kathleen

I have found Barbara and John Dorward in the 1871 Census. From the index, I think the relationships are a bit mixed up so you may have to look at the original to verify. It looks like Barbara and John may have been living with her brother Robert (who shows age 16 in the 1861 Census). The name of his wife may also explain why John and Barbara called one of their girls Catherine Laird Dorward:


Robert Ramsay    26, Farmer 6 Ac Arable 1 Man 1 Boy, b. Guthrie
Catherine Layrd Ramsay    25, farmer's wife, b. Inverarity
John Dorward    37, agr. lab., b. Lochee
Barbra Ramsay Dorward    36, Labourers Wife, b. Guthrie
John Dorward    17, ploughman
James Dorward    13
Elisabeth Dorward 9
Maryann Dorward 7
Pether Dorward    5
Robert Dorward    3
Catherine Dorward 1
Margaret Dorward 1 Mo
Edward Galy 70, boarder, agr. lab. b. Glamis
Robert Garbay 4, nephew, b. Forfar

Address: Burnside, Guthrie
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 April 07 11:20 BST (UK)
My last one for now - give you a chance to go through everything and put it in order  ::)

To help you flesh out the places and parish names, have a look at:

1. www.scotlandsfamily.com/gazetteer.htm - the county and parish maps links on the left hand side are brilliant.

2. To look at individual areas, have a look at www.old-maps.co.uk which provides old ordnance maps by place name (go through the gazetteer to Forfarshire and then the alpha listing of place names).

Have fun  ;)

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Monday 02 April 07 11:50 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,

Good morning and thanks again.

Regards,   Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Monday 02 April 07 22:29 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen,

The info I have for David Kidd Johnston is

Married Elizabeth Ogilvy (Domestic Servant) of Littleton, Airlie on 2nd December 1887 at The Park, Cortachy, Angus, Scotland

Witnesses, John Ogilvy & Jane Duncan

1901 Census - lived at Muirside Farm, Inverarity with wife Elizabeth (m.s. Ogilvy) and children Jane Howe aged 11 and Annie aged 9

Died of carcinoma of the intestines, at West Mains of Turin farm, Rescobie, aged 77 years.

(courtesy of Scotlandspeople)

Cheers 

Gordon
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Monday 02 April 07 22:37 BST (UK)
Gordon,

Thanks for that.  Are you finding at least some of the answers you wanted in this?

David Kidd Johnston was my Grandfather's brother, but the material I have showed nothing on him.

If you want more re my Father's generation, let me know anytime. 

Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Monday 02 April 07 22:44 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen,

Yes I think I have got the wrong Agnes Rea. If she WAS born in 1783 then I should have realised the she would not still be bearding children (George in 1841) at the age of 58.

David Kidd Johnston was also my grandfathers older brother

Yes, any info you have on your fathers generation will be extremely helpful

Thanks for the info

Cheers

Gordon
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Monday 02 April 07 23:43 BST (UK)
Gordon,

Of course, I should have said 'our Grandfather..."

WILLIAM JOHNSTON was born 30 Oct 1857, Eassie Farm, Parish of Eassie & Nevay and died 14 Nov 1925 in Colliston, St. Vigeans Parish, Arbroath. 

He married ELIZABETH RAMSAY DORWARD, 28 May 1886 in Burnside, Kirkbuddo, Guthrie.  She was born 11 Nov 1861 in Burnside, Kirkbuddo, Guthrie, and died 03 Mar 1914 in Colliston, St. Vigeans Parish, Arbroath.

William was Estate Factor at Colliston Castle.  Some of the children were born in the Factor's cottage.

Children:  BARBARA RAMSAY JOHNSTON, b. 10 Aug 1887, Kirkbuddo, d. 12 Dec 1961, Dundee. 

MARGARET RAMSAY JOHNSTON, b. 16 Mar 1890, Burnside, Kirkbuddo, d. 18 Jan 1962

WILLIAM JOHNSTON, b. 17 Jan 1892, Carmyllie, d. 15 Nov 1966, Dundee

DAVID KIDD JOHNSTON, b. 04 Dec 1893, Carmyllie, d. 18 Dec 1953, Dundee

ELIZABETH DORWARD JOHNSTON, b. 30 Nov 1895, Dunnichen, d. 1985

FREDERICK JOHNSTON, b. 26 June 1898, Colliston Cottage, St. Vigeans Parish, d. 31 July 1917, France (Military Service)

GILBERT JOHNSTON, b. 04 Dec 1902, Colliston Cottage, d. 02 Dec. 1974, Dundee

CATHERINE LAIRD JOHNSTON, b. 28 Sep 1905, Colliston Cottage, St. Vigeans, d. 18 Dec. 1974, Dundee

JOHN CHAPLIN DORWARD JOHNSTON, b. 26 May 1908, Colliston Cottage, St. Vigeans, d. 26 May 1978, Dundee

More to come........

Kathleen

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Tuesday 03 April 07 00:29 BST (UK)
BARBARA was a Shop Assistant in Dundee.  Following the death of her Mother in 1914, her Father required her help with the younger children at home, so Barbara became 'Mother' in the family and she never married.

MARGARET married SNOWDON STEPHENSON, 03 Aug 1921 in Colliston, St. Vigeans Parish.  He was born 14 Feb 1886 in Scotland and died 20 Nov 1937

DAVID married AGNES PENMAN NEISH, 04, Sep 1924 in Dundee.  She was born 03 May 1891 in Glasgow, Scotland, and died 06 1957 in Dundee

ELIZABETH married GEORGE ANDERSON JR. JOHNSTON, 14 Aug 1929, in Dundee.  He was born 29 Apr 1893 in Downfield, and died 01 May 1966 in Dundee

GILBERT came to Canada in Aug. 1929.  He married KATHLEEN NORAH HACOCK 14 Jun 1933 in Toronto, Ontario.  She was born 15 Nov 1914 in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and died 01 Nov 1999 in Campbellford, Ontario, Canada

CATHERINE married JAMES MAY CLELAND KNIGHT 30 June 1944 in Dundee.  He was born 03 Jun 1905 in Scotland and died 04 Jun 1964 in Dundee

JOHN married JANET McNAUGHTON MILNE 25 Apr 1956 in Broughty Ferry, Scotland.  She was born 1919 in Scotland

Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Wednesday 04 April 07 18:10 BST (UK)
My grandfather is third from the left
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Wednesday 04 April 07 21:01 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

That's a wonderful picture, thank you.  Do you know which store that is, or any of the other people?

Regards,    Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Thursday 05 April 07 12:34 BST (UK)
Hi

Is their any available information about George
Anderson Johnston's wife, Isabella Waddell Millar,
or John Johnston's wife Helen Kennedy -- their
ancestry?

Regards,

Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Friday 06 April 07 21:15 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen,

The only info I have regarding Isabella Millar is from a copy of there wedding cert. from scotlandspeople.

She was 25 and a dressmaker, when she married George Johnston on 6th April 1886.
Her parents were Robert Millar (a Farmer) and Margaret Millar (nee Anderson) and lived at 230 Hilltown Dundee. Her mother was deceased before her marriage.

As far as Helen Kennedy is concerned I only have similar information.

From what I can read (very bad copy of cert) she was a 21 when she married to John Johnston on 8th April 1891, and also a dressmaker of 4 Airlie Terrace. Dundee, her parents were Henry(?) Kennedy a Tailor (Cutter) and Jane Kennedy (nee Thomson)

Sorry I don't have any more than that!!

Regarding the picture, I am trying to source the address of the store.

As I live in Aberdeen I am hopeful of getting down to Dundee in the next few weeks so that I can use the resources at the Tay Valley FHS, (of which I am a member) and I will have a good search for anything Johnston store-ish'

Finally thank you for all the information you posted regarding the other Johnstons, I can now fill in a few gaps in my data

Regards

Gordon
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 06 April 07 21:32 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon and Kathleen

These look like possible siblings to Isabella:

1. ANN WADDEL MILLAR Birth: 04 JAN 1860 Collace, Perth, Scotland
2. ISABELLA WADDEL MILLAR  Birth: 29 JAN 1861 Collace, Perth, Scotland
3. JAMES WADDEL MILLAR  Birth: 21 NOV 1865 Collace, Perth, Scotland
4. CATHARINE FRAZER MILLAR Birth: 27 NOV 1863 Collace, Perth, Scotland
5. JANE ANDERSON MILLAR Birth: 09 MAR 1868 Collace, Perth, Scotland

And likely entry for parents' marriage:

ROBERT MILLAR     Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET ANDERSON    
Marriage:  28 OCT 1859  Collace, Perth, Scotland

I wonder if mother Margaret had died by 1871:

Robert Willar    26, Farmer Of 193 Arces All 125 Employing 2 Men, b. Ewden Easter, Perthshire
Ann H Millar    11, b. Collow
Isabella H Millar 11, b. Collow
Catherine F Millar 7, b. Collow
James W Millar    5, b. Collow
Jane A Millar    3, b. Collow

Elizabeth William    12, FS
George Young    16, MS
Alexander Donald 19, MS
Augus H Donald    63, MS

Address: Flowerdale Par??, Collace
Peter Jack    14, MS

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 06 April 07 21:38 BST (UK)
Possibly mother Margaret's death entry from SP:

1869   MILLAR   MARGARET       ANDERSON   F   32   COLLACE   /PERTH   340/00 0006

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Friday 06 April 07 22:02 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

Are there any other folks you need to know
about that I may have information for?  As
mentioned, my recent posts are of information'
provided to a cousin by a genealogist.

Again,  thanks for that wonderful picture.

Regards,

Kathleen

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 06 April 07 22:08 BST (UK)
Confirming Isabella's family from her birth place on the 1891 Census after she married George:

George A Johnston 28, Grocer & La Merchant, b. Airlie, Forfarshire
Isabella Johnston 30, b. Collace, Perth
William Johnston 4, b. Dundee
Maggie Johnston 2, b. Dundee
Robert Johnston 2 Mo, b. Mains

Address: The Grange, Mains, Angus


And Isabella, just born, with mother Margaret in the 1861 Census:

Robert Millar    46, Farmer Of 190 Acres, b. Fowlis, Perthsh
Margt A Millar    22, b. Collace
Ann W Millar    1
Isabella W Millar 2 Mo
Isabella Waddel 82, aunt, b. Liff Forfarshire
Jane Anderson    14, FS
Henry Brough    18, MS
Jessie Doctor    21, FS

Address: 1 Flowerdale, Collace


Gordon, If you want to follow up on Robert Millar's estate following his death, there looks to be a will for him on SP:

Millar   Robert   24/05/1899   sometime Tenant, Farm of Flowerdale, Parish of Collace, thereafter residing at Rose Bank, Balbeggie, d. 14/02/1899 at Balbeggie, testate       Perth Sheriff Court   SC49/31/176

Regards.

Monica

Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Friday 06 April 07 22:15 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,

I thought I sent this before, but may not have hit the
post button.

Your help with this family project is truly appreciated.

Regards,    Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 06 April 07 22:25 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen

Pleasure  :)

Helen Kennedy's parents are showing as Henry and Jane Thomson. Her birth details:

1. GEORGE THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 27 DEC 1855 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. HENRY KENNEDY Birth: 28 FEB 1858 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
3. ALEXANDER THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 23 JAN 1860 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
4. JANE FARQUHERSON KENNEDY  Birth: 26 APR 1862 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
5. EUPHEMIA THOMSON KENNEDY  Birth: 04 JUL 1863 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
6. MARGARET THOMSON KENNEDY  Birth: 10 DEC 1865 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
7. HELEN GRANT KENNEDY Birth: 23 NOV 1868 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
8. JAMES MORRIS THOMSON KENNEDY Birth: 05 JUL 1870 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

Not sure whether Henry is away from home or deceased by now, but this looks to be the family's entry in 1871:

Jane Kennedy    36, b. Dundee
Alexander Kennedy 10
Euphemia Kennedy 7
Margaret Kennedy 5
Helen Kennedy    2
James Kennedy    8mo

Address: Pittencrieff Street, Dunfermline, Fifeshire

Regards.

Monica




Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Friday 06 April 07 22:58 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen and Monica,

Thanks for all this Johnston info...........this is certainly helping me fill in a lot of gaps.

Kathleen,


I am still trying to get data on my grandfathers' Charles's brothers -Alexander Johnston(dob 07 Apr 1874) and Robert Peters Johnston (dob 14 Jul 1880)......................I know they are 3 of the 12 children of William Johnston and Isabella Anderson (his 2nd wife) but if you have any info it would be great.

(I'm off to watch the golf..........speak to you tomorrow)

Gordon



Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 06 April 07 23:05 BST (UK)
Gordon

Just closing off on some of Helen Kennedy's info. This looks like Helen's parents' marriage:

HENRY KENNEDY     Marriages: JANE THOMSON    
Marriage:  31 DEC 1855   Dundee, Angus, Scotland

and from the 1881 Census:

Henry Kennedy    46, Tailor (Employing 2 Boys), b Dundee
Jane Kennedy    46, b. Dundee
Euphemia Kennedy 17
Margaret Kennedy 15
Helen Kennedy    12
James Kennedy    10

Address: 4½ Reform St, Dunfermline, fife

Enjoy the golf  ;)

Regards.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Saturday 07 April 07 13:38 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

ISABELLA ANDERSON (William's second wife) --
   Farm servant, daughter of George Anderson,
   agricultural labourer, and Mary Cownie --
   b. Aug 27, 1842, Kirriemuir, d. June 22, 1919,
   Kirkbuddo, Inverarity Parish.  Married Dec 17, 186l
   in Newton, Airlie.  Alexander Johnston and Peter
   Anderson were witnesses.

ALEXANDER JOHNSTON, b. Apr 7, 1874, Newmill, Eassie &
   Nevay.  A grocer, he married MARY MUDIE, b. 1877,  on
   Mar 22, 1905.  She was a domestic servant, daughter of
   Peter Mudie, blacksmith, and Elizabeth Mann.   No
   children or death dates are given in the material I have

ROBERT PETERS JOHNSTON, b. July 14, 1880 in Mosside, 
   Ingliston, Kinnettles, d. Aug 9, 1895, Bankhead, Guthrie,
   Grocer.  Cause of Death Tuberculosis/Peritonitis

I'll send more info on the offspring of William and Isabella later today.

Regards,  Kathleen
 
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Saturday 07 April 07 18:19 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

More info re children of William and Isabella (Anderson) Johnston:

JAMES JOHNSTON, b. June 6, 1866, Airlie; occupation Customs House Officer; married Jessie Anderson

ISABELLA ANDERSON JOHNSTON, b. Dec 18, 1867, Airlie; occupation Domestic Servant; married in Guthrie, Dec 26, 1890 Alexander Sturrock, b. 1865

AGNES JOHNSTON, b. Aug 10, 1870, Airlie; occupation Domestic Servant; married in Kirkbuddo, Dec 11, 1891 William Stewart, b. 1870

JOHN JOHNSTON, b. May 29, 1872, Kinnettles, d. Sep 13, 1919, Guthrie; occupation Master Grocer; married April 8, 1891 in Dundee, Helen Kennedy, b. 1879

PETER ANDERSON JOHNSTON, b. Mar 8, 1876, Eassie & Nevay; occupation Grocer; d. Dec 17, 1945, Dundee

THOMAS JOHNSTON, b. June 25, 1878, Eassie & Nevay; occupation Farmer; married (1) Annie Johnston, (2) Dec 7, 1904, Montrose, Elizabeth Mudie, daughter of Peter Mudie
and Elizabeth Mann

JANE KIDDIE JOHNSTON (known as Jeannie), b. Apr 29, 1883, Lintrathen, Domestic Servant, married Dec 13, 1901,
Robert Mudie, b. 1876, son of Peter Mudie and Elizabeth Mann in Kirkbuddo

CHARLES JOHNSTON, b. Apr 15, 1888, Guthrie, Grocer; married Lovina Pattison

Regards,    Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Monday 09 April 07 20:51 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen,

I have most of that info, but thanks for Alexanders and Robert Peters bits and pieces

Don't know if it was a typo, but my grandfather married a Lovina PATERSON (just in case it was misleading you)

Is there any Johnston info you are requiring, because I might be able to help you with some of the data I have retrieved from Scotlandspeople???.

Regards

Gordon
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Monday 09 April 07 21:41 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon

The name given in the genealogy report was Lovina Pattison.  However, there is no other information given about her or your grandfather except children's names of William and Charles  -- no dates or locations mentioned

The report was based selectively upon one branch of the family, as I mentioned earlier.

Do you have more names and dates pertaining to the above?

Did you notice the corrected info re the Johnston Stores' new owners that I posted?

Regards,    Katheen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Tuesday 10 April 07 22:09 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleen,

Charles Johnston born 15 April 1888 in Kirkbudo, Inverarity, Angus and died aged 49 on 28th July 1937, his wife Lovina Paterson born 22 Nov 1884 in Dundee and died on 3rd August 1953 aged 68.

If you require any further details I would rather I send then to you privately.

Regards

Gordon
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Tuesday 10 April 07 22:39 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the info.  I also prefer not to put facts about living relatives on a public board.

For your information, if you are interested, I was looking for and found my uncle Corporal Frederick Johnston's Casualty and Buriel Details from WWI.  Buried in Belgium, my Father's brother was only 19 when he died.  The two websites are CWGC::Casualty Details   and   www.findagrave.com

Regards,   Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Saturday 05 May 07 20:48 BST (UK)
Hi there everyone,

I have been away on holiday for a few days but there has been something niggling at the back of my mind about Agnes Rea.

Kathleen,
You stated at the beginning that Agnes Rea had the following children

DAVID, b. 1821;  JANE, b. 1825;
WILLIAM, b. Dec 17, 1833;  ALEXANDER, b. 1835;  JOHN, b. 1838;  GEORGE, B. 1841, all in Forfar area.


then later on Monica stated that

In respect of Agnes and William Johnston's children, going by the OPR entries to parents with those names, there are probably a few more children than show above following their marriage in 1814. A few early deaths of children would account for the use of the name again for a subsequent child:

1. MARGARET JOHNSON Birth: 04 FEB 1815/ Christening: 06 FEB 1815 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
2. BELL JOHNSON  Christening: 07 JAN 1821 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
3. ELIZABETH JOHNSON Birth: 29 DEC 1822/ Christening: 04 JAN 1823 Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland
4. DAVID JOHNSTON Birth: 07 MAR 1825/ Christening: 15 MAR 1825 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
5. ANN JOHNSTON Birth: 27 MAR 1827/ Christening: 01 APR 1827 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
6. DAVID JOHNSON Birth: 21 MAR 1829Christening: 29 MAR 1829 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
7. JAMES ERSKINE JOHNSTON Birth: 24 MAY 1831/ Christening: 05 JUN 1831 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
8. WILLIAM JOHNSTON Birth: 17 SEP 1833/ Christening: 25 SEP 1833 Forfar, Angus, Scotland
9. ALEXR. JOHNSTON Birth: 01 MAR 1836/ Christening: 20 MAR 1836 Forfar, Angus, Scotland

the confusion arises with one William born on 17th December 1833 and another William born on 17th September 1833.

Now since I started my family tree, I have been going down the 17th September 1833 dateline.

A substantial amount of information which came from a granddaughter of James Johnston who was William and Isabella Johnstons sixth(?) child (born 1866)

And to that extent (my gg grandmother) Agnes Rea was born in March 1783 ???

What confuses me even more now, is that she (Agnes) would be 53 when she had her last child??

I will contact my other informant and ask if she can assist me with my confusion

Any help would be gratefully received.

Cheers,

Gordon



Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 06 May 07 00:37 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon

I'm not sure if I have missed some info from a thread on the other post. The Agnes Rae that we found as wife to William and the census entries for 1841-61, have her as born c. 1798 in Kinnettles. This then ties up with the possible OPR birth entry for an Agnes Rae born on that date in Kinnettles (replies nos. 2 and 4). I'm not sure where the birth year of 1783 comes in, is this from info supplied to you by the other person researching this line?

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 06 May 07 02:16 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

At the beginning of this posting, I was asking questions.  My only reference at that point was the information sent by a cousin, and I needed more because there were many blanks and I needed to check some content in the report.

I am truly grateful for the help provided by Monica and others.

Agnes Rae was born Feb 14, 1798.  On Aug. 28, 1814, she married William Johnston, born 1786.  She died Oct. 31, 1888.

As shown in the records provided by Monica, William Johnston was born Sep. 17, 1833.

Regards,   Kathleen





Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: geejayboy on Tuesday 08 May 07 20:26 BST (UK)
Kathleen and Monica,

Yep, I've got the wrong Agnes Rea (she's caused me a few problems) , but as my contact said.........." its just been the wrong twig in the tree"

Thanks once again for the shove in the right direction

Cheers

Gordon
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Tuesday 08 May 07 21:13 BST (UK)
Hi Gordon,

You are welcome.

Regards.   Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: adee7 on Saturday 27 June 09 12:45 BST (UK)
Carol,

Hope you find this helpful.

Kathleen
Title: Re: Johnston - Rea - Kidd etc.
Post by: suebud17 on Friday 14 May 21 18:07 BST (UK)
Hi,
I know this post was a very long time ago but on the offchance - I found it on a google search. I am related to John Dorward and Barbara Ramsay via Catherine Laird Dorward. If anyone picks this up feel free it get in touch.