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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: chinakay on Thursday 29 March 07 16:48 BST (UK)

Title: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 29 March 07 16:48 BST (UK)
Aren't they a handsome pair! It's hard to tell with all the hair (or maybe lack of it) but I think they are father and son. What do you think?

A very quick tidy would be nice, please, just a spot and a little tear at the right. It's in very good shape, and I think the date would be about 1895-1900...does anyone have any better idea of a date?

Sure wish I knew who they were... :P

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Romilly on Thursday 29 March 07 16:50 BST (UK)

They definately look related to me, China.

There is a similarity round the eyes & eyebrows...& the general shape of the brow.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 29 March 07 17:53 BST (UK)
Ooo...China...what a gorgeous photo and in such good condition too...I didn't mess with it...it needed so little work :D...jusy a little tidy!....I agree with Romilly...they look like Dad and his Lad to me too :D
T.T.
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 30 March 07 15:27 BST (UK)
.....and a black and white one for you ;)...meant to post it yesterday but forgot ::)
T.T.
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Friday 30 March 07 16:18 BST (UK)
Those are beautiful, TT, thank you very much. It really is a super photo, isn't it. I hope I can make a good guess as to who they are.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Romilly on Friday 30 March 07 16:21 BST (UK)
Hi China,

Are they relatives of yours, do you think?

Romilly.
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Friday 30 March 07 16:29 BST (UK)
China.

By the looks, I would say the (Young) man sitting is in His 50's, & the 'Man of Years' standing is 70+!

Man of Years has a Very Victorian Dress Style & Manner

Were as the Youngster has a more Edwardian look about Him! (Firm, Self-Assured & Looking Straight at [through] the Camera)

So, I would Guess the Date of the Photo to be C1910 :-\
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 30 March 07 16:58 BST (UK)
It is a wonderful picture and I would say that there is a strong likeness - father and son most likely.

Gadget
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Friday 30 March 07 17:11 BST (UK)

Sorry I forgot to say (I agree with Gadget), They are Most Definately Related!

Also, If My Guesstimate at their Ages Is right, They therefore Must be Father & Son!
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Friday 30 March 07 18:02 BST (UK)
Good catch, Pegasuss...I hadn't noticed that the older man isn't looking at the camera but the younger one is. It does make a difference in their demeanour, doesn't it.

I hope they are related to me...just a wild guess that they might be Campbells. The photo came from the side of the family that used to be Campbell. Of course there's no law against possessing a photo of somone who isn't family... :P

Cheers all,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Friday 30 March 07 18:11 BST (UK)
China.

My 6th Sense was Telling Me that The Younger Man (particularly) Looked to Me to Be of Scottish Ancestry!

I did'nt bother mentioning it Before, but Now You Mention 'CAMPBELLS'!

P.S.

I should Trust My 6th Sense More, It was Instrumental in Me Discovering (the Longtime Ellusive) Birth of one of My Maternal 2x Grt-Grandmothers! ::) ;)
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: genie.fan on Friday 30 March 07 19:09 BST (UK)
Lovely restores TT  :o :o  Well done you!!
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Friday 30 March 07 19:30 BST (UK)
The Campbell ancestor came from around Belfast, which has a large contingent of Campbells. As I understand it, the Scotch-Irish didn't mix with the Irish-Irish much, so Northern Ireland might as well have been Scotland...

But I haven't found the family yet.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 30 March 07 20:35 BST (UK)
Dangerous talk there, China :-\

Northern Ireland was intensively 'plantationed' by Scots in the ? 17th- 18th century. Lots of info on Google.

Gadget
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Friday 30 March 07 21:30 BST (UK)
I just noticed something... is this the same person?
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Friday 30 March 07 21:31 BST (UK)
No, they're not the same. But they could be brothers...
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Friday 30 March 07 21:32 BST (UK)
China.

Yes, it does Look like It!
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Friday 30 March 07 21:33 BST (UK)
Ignore My Last Comment!

They have Different Noses!

The Military Gent has a Flatter Nose!
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Friday 30 March 07 22:18 BST (UK)
And the ears are really different.

Incidentally, it's not a military uniform...it's some kind of benevolent organization I think. Recognise it, anyone? (The IOF never got back to me so I still don't have a clue :P)
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Jack J. on Saturday 31 March 07 03:54 BST (UK)
The older man is most likely eighty or more. The younger maybe sixty I would think.
                                 Jack J.
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Saturday 31 March 07 04:40 BST (UK)
Hmmm...how bout seventy/fifty? No moisturisers etc... ;D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cazza59 on Saturday 31 March 07 08:27 BST (UK)
I'm no good at guessing ages but they do look related.

Caz
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Saturday 31 March 07 13:42 BST (UK)
China.

I think this Benevolent Gent Is the same one as in the Other Photo, His Ears are Pushed Down by the Hat! ;)

I tried Googling to see If I could find anything on 'Benevolant Societies', No Luck! ???
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Saturday 31 March 07 21:21 BST (UK)
The uniform is probably a Colonial Officier's Dress Uniform and he may have been done to the nine's for Victoria's Diamond Jubilee or something similar. Do you have a date for the photo that may match up to such an event?
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: mermaid-nl on Sunday 01 April 07 01:01 BST (UK)
Hi China,

I think it is the same man.  Look at those cheek bones!  And he's not looking at the camera, he's looking up.  At first glance, I'd say it was the same man

Ursula
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 01 April 07 01:28 BST (UK)
Picture was taken in Montreal, maybe 1915-1920 or so...he died in 1922 at the age of 75. My aunt thought it was an International Order of Foresters outfit, of which he was apparently a local dignitary. But I couldn't find anything in the way of historic uniforms at their website, and when I emailed them (and a couple of other organizations) the picture no-one bothered to reply.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Sunday 01 April 07 01:38 BST (UK)
I looked at the Ancient Order of Forresters, The Odd Fellows and even the Salvation Army but when my husband showed me some photos of the Colonial Dignitaries I must say I thought that was it ! Will have to send you a scan to tomorrow!
Mog
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Sunday 01 April 07 01:39 BST (UK)
China.

I thought of the Forresters, But like You could'nt find anything on Google to back up my Hunch! ::) ???
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 01 April 07 01:41 BST (UK)
Who are the "Colonial Dignitaries"...?
C
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 01 April 07 02:04 BST (UK)
How about this thingy?
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Sunday 01 April 07 15:54 BST (UK)
I have found a website for the International Sword Collectors Association who have a section about Fraternal Society Swords and they say they welcome enquiries. Perhaps they could name the society from the sword ?

http://hometown.aol.com/machood/frat.html

There are some pictures of fraternal society swords and some descriptions
Can anyone tell from the photograph what the top of the sword - the pommel is - is it an animal ?

mog
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Sunday 01 April 07 16:23 BST (UK)
Have been doing some more googling
Have found for Montreal the following websites

http://www.standrews.qc.ca/
St Andrews Society Montreal formed 1835 to support Scottish Imigrants - there is also an article about a burial site they bought which was needed to bury causualties from the SS Montreal, most of whom were Scottish and a number named Campbell

also
http://www.stpatricksociety.com/
The St Patrick's Society who assisted the Irish imigrants
Both sites welcome enquiries
Both organisations still in existance today
mog
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Sunday 01 April 07 16:28 BST (UK)
Also found a site showing friendly societies in Montreal having a Celtic interest

http://www.geocities.com/mocc2000/associations.html#andrews
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Sunday 01 April 07 17:47 BST (UK)
How about this one ?

http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/collection/artifacts/II-59274.1&section=196

from the Musee McCord Canada - Photographic collection showing
E.-P. Lachapelle who was elected to Montreal City Council as a member of the reform group that was in power from 1910 to 1914. He strove to improve management of the City's Board of Health and to expand its powers with respect to sanitary inspection.
Photographed in 1880 by the Notman & Sandham studio, E.-P. Lachapelle is wearing the uniform of the officers of the 65th Battalion of Rifles (Mount Royal Rifles). The black cocked hat with a plume of white and black feathers and the sabre indicate his rank, which is lieutenant-colonel.
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Sunday 01 April 07 18:37 BST (UK)
Cheshire.

There are Really Similarities!

The Belt Strap (across the Chest) is Almost Indentical, as is the Hat! :-\
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 01 April 07 22:12 BST (UK)
Wow, mog, have you ever been busy!

I had a look at all the sites and I'd never thought of any of them before. I was totally fixated on the Foresters, which my aunt had written on the back of the photo. The St Andrew's Society did have a Wm. Paterson as a member, so it could have been him.

I emailed them the photo, and also the sword collector people. I will certainly keep you all apprised of any results!! Many, many thanks for your help!

How'd you like to do some laundry for me as well ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: cheshiremog on Sunday 01 April 07 22:22 BST (UK)
Well China
It was my husband who found out most of the info and he's definately useless at doing laundry and he can't operate the hoover either! ;D
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 01 April 07 22:29 BST (UK)
Please thank your husband very much for me!

It was the sword, wasn't it? ;D

Cheers,
C
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Monday 02 April 07 17:19 BST (UK)
Well, the sword people were able to pin down William's uniform! See the new thread, William's regalia identified.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Lones on Wednesday 04 April 07 10:56 BST (UK)
Hi China

I am a bit late with this, I forgot I had it  :-[. 

I just want to say what a striking man the older gent his, he has lovely bone structure, he would have been a very handsome young man :D :D 

I was wondering why the younger gent is sneering, he doesn't look impressed at all  :-\ :-\ !!

Cheers Lones
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 04 April 07 16:41 BST (UK)
Lones, that's incredible! Just beautiful, thank you so much!

I never thought of the younger man as sneering, I think it's just as Pegasuss pointed out, the elder man has a deferential look to him, as he isn't looking at the camera, where the younger has a more confident look.

But...you've got me thinking...who is the younger man? Well, not that I wasn't thinking that already :D But now I have a theory...watch for a new thread about Young William...

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 04 April 07 20:09 BST (UK)
That is really lovely, Lones  :)

No need for Nija on this at all and I love the colouring.

I don't think he's sneering, really. It could be that it was a long exposure and he had to keep a fixed pose  ???

Gadget
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Pegasuss on Thursday 05 April 07 00:27 BST (UK)
Gadget.

My thoughts exactly!

He was probably so Tense (by the time the Photograph was taken), that He looks a bit Uptight! ::) ;)
Title: Re: Are they father and son?
Post by: Lones on Thursday 05 April 07 00:57 BST (UK)
Thank you ladies, I am glad you like my colouring  ;D ;D. 

Sneering or not, I still don't think he looks happy, his lip is curled and his nose is screwed up one side, maybe he was sitting on something uncomfortable?   :-\ :-\

Gadget, keep your little Ninja dude handy you never know when we might need him.  I still haven't had time to google it yet, but I will!! 

Cheers

Lones  8) 8)