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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sarahjane412 on Thursday 29 March 07 12:20 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me find this couple who seem to have got lost for 24 years?
Susannah COLLINGBOURNE (aged 22, spinster, weaver) – father Thomas COLLINGBOURNE, weaver of Primrose Hill Street married James ANGLISS (aged 21, bachelor, weaver) - father James ANGLISS, weaver of Gilbert Street on 3 Dec 1865 Coventry St Peter.
In 1871 she is with her parents at Primrose Hill Street. She is listed as Married but with the name COLLINGBOURNE – which I suppose could just be an over-ditto?
The only likely James I can find in 1871 is a James ANGLAISH aged 27. He is a weaver from Coventry visiting John UNDERWOOD, a Hosier in Nottingham, though he is down as unmarried. Also visiting are two other weavers from Coventry delighting in the names William and Julia SHAKESPEARE!
I can't find either of them after this.
The next thing I know is Susannah died in Hatton Lunatic Asylum 27 May 1895. Her 'occupation' is listed as 'Wife of --- ANGLISS, Ribbon Weaver of Union Workhouse, Coventry'. The informant is her sister Alice Sophia MILLS, of Hillfields Coventry.
I’d really like to know where they were in ’81 and’91 but just can’t seem to find them at all. I have even trawled through pages and pages of just people born in Coventry around the right time in case there is a particularly extreme mis-transcription (not an extreme one, but my favourite, being COLLIAYBONEVE for COLLINGBOURNE).
I’ve obviously missed something and I am hoping it is something obvious!
Hope someone can help.
Best wishes
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
on FreeBMD Thomas Collingbourne died JUN qtr 1886 and Susanna's mother, Maria Collingbourne, died MAR qtr 1886
don't know if you have this info already but the death certs may mention Susanna as informant, perhaps?
regards, Graham
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Thanks Graham
I have these two references noted but have not yet sent for the certificates (they are next on the list of presents to myself!).
I am somewhat reassured that the rootschat experts don't seem to have been able to find them on the censuses either
It looks like Hatton records may be the only place to find Susannah and I was hoping to get a more specific time period than 'somewhere between 1871 & 1895'. Fingers crossed that the parents death certs hold a clue.
James I fear is lost forever...
Sarah
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Well...things just get complicated don't they!
Today I received Maria COLLINGBOURNE's death certificate and lo and behold, the informant is Susannah YATES, daughter, of 40 Primrose Hill Street, Coventry. There she is on the 1881 census listed as the 'wife' of William Yates, 42 year old silk weaver of Coventry. There are 2 children Eliza YATES 10 and Willie YATES 6.
They are there again in 1891 - listed under BATES with just William Jr 16.
In 1901 William is a 62 year old widower living with his 38 year old widowed 'daughter in law' Helen YATES.
In 1871 William is living with his first wife Ann, & children Julia 11 and Sarah 9. And in 1861 with Ann and children Henry 2 and Julia 1
There doesn't seem to be any sign of a marriage for William and Susannah, and she definitely had the name ANGLISS when she died.
Haven't yet found a death for his first wife Ann & not sure where this daughter in law comes from - she has to be the wife of his son Henry (who I can't find after 1861).
I get the feeling that James ANGLISS did a runner and Susannah is living in sin with William...
Any other ideas? I'm just so glad she didn't disappear straight into Hatton that I'm not thinking too straight..
Regards
Sarah
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I dont know if you have this information or if it helps
Maria Collingbourne Buried on 22 February 1886 age 69 last address Primrose Hill Street
Buried with
Thomas Collingbourne Buried on 24 June 1889 Age 79 last address Hospital
Square 125 Grave 207 London Road Coventry
Susannah Angliss age 51 Buried 1 June 1895 last address Hatton Asylum
Buried with
Thomas Yates Age 55 last address Workhouse Buried 18 December 1877
Square 91 Grave 59 London Road, Coventry
Regards Sharon
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Thanks Sharon, that's great!!
I had the Collingbourne burial details but not the last addresses and the important detail that Susannah was buried in a 'Yates plot' (I didn't know of the Yates connection when I was in Coventry looking things up!).
From a quick look at census & IGI extracted records it looks like Thomas could be William's older brother.
In 1881 William & Susan Yates have a 6 year old Willie living with them and I was trying to work out if this was his first wife's child but couldn't find a Willie/William Yates born at the right time (or the first wife's death for that matter). But just this week I had another look at FreeBMD and there is a rather intriguing 'William Thomas Y ANGLISH' who was born exactly the right time...Y for YATES perhaps?? I have decided (for now at least) to claim him as mine!
Still no sign of James Angliss though. Did a runner good and proper is what I think ;)
Thanks again for the info. Great Great Aunt Susannah has certainly led me a merry dance!
Best wishes
Sarah
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Hi saran
Glad information was usefull, just had a quick look and I have burial details of 44 matches for Yates and 22 for Collingbourne in london road
Give us a shout if you want me to check any others the record I have goes upto 1900
many regards Sharon
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Thanks for the very kind offer.
As the Yates connection is 'unofficial' so to speak - I'll leave them, but I would be very interested in any other Collingbournes. Just about all the Collingbourne's in Coventry are linked (very probably) to Henry Collingbourne b1767 whose father Pitman Collingbourne moved to Coventry from Gloucestershire.
I did wander round London Road when I was in Coventry and found some rellies (including the family of David Collingbourne my GG Uncle) and some more distant ones from the rich side of the family (none of the money trickled over to my side of course!) headed by William Pitman Collingbourne.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Sarah
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These are all Collingbourne's
24 May 1874 Ann sarah age 77 Craven Street
03 March 1867 Henry age 70 Junction Street
Square 121 Grave 101
26 Nov 1896 Charles Edwin age 63 Workhouse
20 March 1881 Elizabeth age 43 Hill Street
Square 87 Grave 58
15 Sept 1873 Emily age 1 Hill Street
square 130 Grave 154
05 Feb 1903 Frances age 81
23 Nov 1891 Henry age 1 m 36 Butts
28 June 1854 Maria age 4 Broomfield place
02 March 1899 Nellie Edith age 6 32 Craven Street
square 130 grave 5 Purchased by Henry Collongbourne Book 2/176
21 March 1875 George Pears age 7w Hill Street
square 131 grave 15
21 January 1879 Jane age 48 Radford Road
25 Dec 1858 Ormond Page age 20m Hertford Terrace
09 Dec 1858 Percy William age 3 Hertford Terrace
07 Aug 1902 William Pitman age 78
sqaure 12/13 grave 25 purchased by William Pitman Collingbourne Brick grave
22 Feb 1886 Maria age 69 Primrose Hill
24 June 1886 Thomas age 79 Hospital
square 125 Grave 207
20 July 1896 Reginald Harry age 11m 123 Eagle Street
14 Nov 1898 Sarah Jane age 30 Eagle Street
square 95 Grave 122
26 Oct 1857 Sophia age 63 Much Park Street
22 Feb 1874 William Piman age 75 Butts
square 13 Grave 2 Purchased by William Collingbourne
11 Jan 1900 William Alfred age 28 73 Vine Street
square 84 Grave 51
03 Sept 1877 William Pears age 11w Hill Street
square 108 grave 15
Looking at the address's most of the lived in what is classed as Earlsdon, chapelfields, spon end area of coventry most of the streets are still here in coventry today
Do you have a Susannah born approx 1823 ??? If so i have her burial details but she is a Smyth and almost sure had money daughter of William pitman collingbourne
Ok I will leave it at that dont want you to think Im doing your tree !!! But its been a pleasure researching as my tree is giving me a headache at the mo
Regards sharon
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Sharon
You are an absolute star! There is even a few completely new people for me - though it is rather sad that it is because they are children who were born and died between censuses.
I was actually born and brought up in Cov but moved 'oop north' to Yorkshire 15 years ago. I only get to go back a couple of times a year to visit the folks (and squeeze in a bit of research, but not too much or my mum will think that's all I go back for!).
William Pitman C's Susannah married Ralph Smyth who in 1881 was 'Gilder Printseller & Tailor Master Employing 13 Men 3 Boys' He had a shop in High Street.
Another of his daughters Mary married Walter Claridge and they had the Craven Arms Hotel in High Street (I haven't worked out which of the banks down high street was built on that site!) From what I remember their grave is also in London Road just behind Sophia and WP's - which I managed to walk past 3! times (and it's right by the path) before I saw the great big letters SOPHIA COLLINGBOURNE on a great big hulking stone plinth!!
William Pitman C made his fortune as a Pawnbroker and Clothier and on the A2A National Archives site there are many references to him, & his son William Pitman Jr. The property sales on Jr's death in 1902 included nos. 8 and 9 Much Park St, nos. 16 and 17 Broadgate, no. 12 Warwick Row; no. 7 Much Park St, no.10 Much Park St.; nos. 14, 16, 18, 20 Cope St, Fernilee in Warwick Row. Also, premises in Much Park St. and Summerland Butts, Coventry, late belonging to W.P.Collingbourne the elder. Not bad considering WP the elder was a Boot & Shoemaker in 1841 :o :o
My poor family, weavers mostly - moving into the watch and cycle industry later - were pretty much based around Hillfields. 3 G Grandad Thomas was only 3 years old when his father (also a weaver) died, WP and the eldest son Henry were in their early teens.
There aren't that many Collingbournes around at all so they are a nice bunch to be researching. 2 G Grandad Thomas did manage to marry a BROWN though!
I need to get busy entering all the info you have found into my family file so I'd better stop wittering on!
Thanks again
Sarah
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hi sarah
Im Coventry born and breed and am still in coventry today as I said my tree is getting to be a pain so have decided to research places address and burials etc for now. Heres some more info for you if i come accross anything I will let you know if you need any help give us a shout
Susannah of Earl Street Father William Pitman Collingbourne married Ralph Smyth Carver & Gilder Father Henry Smyth who was a Agent also of earl Street In Feb 1848
Sophia age 23 of Much Park street father William Pitman Collingbourne (pawnbroker) married
John Weddle - Gentleman
Father Thomas Weddle a widow age 44 Nov 1854 St Micheal Coventry
Witnesses William Pitman And Mary Ann Collingbourne
Not sure about this one
08 Sept 1863 William Pitman Collingbourne a widower (farmer) abode broadlane Stoneleigh father Henry Collingbourne (weaver)
married
Mary Mallaber a widow same abode
St Johns Baptist Stoneleigh
As you mentioned a David Collingbourne could these be yours?
Baptism St mark Coventry
15/7/1896 Reginald Harry Collingbourne
11/7/1897 Irene Collingbourne
4/1/1899 Doris sarah Collingbourne
Parents David Charles & Sarah Jane Collingbourne of Eagle street coventry
Ok Burials
Smyth
27 July 1914 Susannah age 91
8 Feb 1925 Clara Sussanah Age 84
16 Jan 1883 Ralph Age 58 of High Street
Fredrick George Age 10 of High Street
Grave purchased by Ralph Collingbourne Vault Grave Square 43 Grave 1
Thats it off now to finish Garden
Sharon
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Thanks again Sharon
The William Pitman one is WP the elders second marriage. The couple were 65 and 62 and there was even a prenup! "If he dies first, his wife is to have £600 (the value of her estate); should she die first £600 was to go to her next of kin unless she had otherwise directed." Thanks for confirming his father was named Henry!
David Collingbourne's family's story is rather sad. They had 4 children, Bert, Reggie, Irene and Doris. Reggie died aged 11 months. David's wife Sarah died in 1898 aged 30 (complications from childbirth), Then in 1916 Bert died in France in the War (age 23) and Doris died just over a year later in 1817.
I know just what you mean about it being a pain. I have to take some time out every now and then and try to ignore the names to concentrate on places and general social history. The go back to it all with a fresh eye. I had no interest in history at school - all wars and kings and dates, and have realised now that I am interested - but more in what life was like for 'ordinary' people. You know, what kind of life would I have had... though from my lot the answer seems to be that I would be popping out babies every 18 months for 20 years so I don't envy my female ancestors at all!!
What are your names in Coventry - unlikely that there's any link but you never know!
Hope you got the gardening done in the breaks between the rain. Lovely summer were having!
Sarah
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Hi sarah
Glad info was of help
Im from Tile Hill, a lot of the family I'm researching 1800 were from Hillfields or the center of town
Im looking at burials at present and had my first trip to London Road today with my friend we managed to locate 2 of my graves and 1 of hers. we are hoping to go back and clean them up next week and hopefully find some more. Some of the graves are in a real sad state which is a shame
Have you ever looked up Bert on on CWCG I have manged to find a few relatives on there
Regards sharon
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Hi Sharon
I spent a whole afternoon in London Road last year - I forgot quite how BIG it is. So many of the stones are damaged or had been laid down as they were in danger of falling (I was convinced that mine would be the ones that had fallen face down ;D). I even climbed up some of the steep bits to look at the stones hidden away in the very scratchy bushes!! So many of the older stones just seem very lonely and sad, like they have been forgotten.
Most of my lot would probably not have been able to afford a stone, but I hate to think they may be the ones that can't be read anymore.
My first clues about Bert were from a random search on CWCG! It led to my best (so far) discovery. I don't know if this link will work but you can try copying and pasting if not.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,171028.0.html
Sarah