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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ev2210 on Tuesday 27 March 07 23:04 BST (UK)
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Look up for Samuel Cottrill bd 1830, Salford, Lancashire. Married Sarah Naylor of Yorkshire in 1855, children William, John Herbert, ???? Trying to fine him prior to 1881 census
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1861 Gorton Lancs
Samuel 31 Salford
Sarah 38 Hebden Bridge
Herbert 2
Willm 9 mths
i couldnt read where the children were born biut it was in Lancs.
Samuel's occupation was Engraver calico printers and then in front of it in a different writing someone has put eccentric
Fizzy
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1861
Samuel Cottrill 31 eccentric engraver calico printer b Salford
Sarah 38 wife b Hebden Bridge Yorks
Herbert 2 son b Longsight Lancs
William 9mths son b ditto
RG9 2875 fol 65 p 25
11 South Street Gorton
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Found this entry on 1851 Salford Greengate unfilmed.
Bearing in mind the source document was water damaged and in poor condition, it might be your man
HO107/2223/Enum Dist 1Q/Page 4/sched 17
4 Georges Place
Thomas COTTRILL,Head,62,Cordwainer,Lancashire Manchester
Ann COTTRILL,Wife,M,61,Lancashire Manchester
Thomas COTTRILL,Son,W,27,Book Keeper,Lancashire Manchester
Henery COTTRILL,Son,22?,Machinist J'yman,Lancashire Manchester
Sh... COTTRILL,Son,19,Engraver Apprentice,Lancashire Salford
Ellen COTTRILL,Dau,17,Lancashire Salford
Esther Ann COTTRILL,Gdau,6M,Lancashire Bolton
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Thank you all for your help, this is my man. We had information, unfounded that Samuels parents were Ehomas and Ann. Now I need to find them on the 1841. Thanks again.
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Just to clarify : eccentric engraving was a particular type of engraving skill. It didnt mean that the person was a bit batty !!!!!
I would love to talk to my ancestors about some of the jobs they did. You read them on censuses and think - what on earth did a --------- do ?
Fizzy
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This looks like them in 1841
(Writing is a bit tricky, maybe someone else can do a better translation)
HO107/585/5/fo 27
Thos CATTENLO,50,Milk Man,
Ann “ ,50
Elizth “ ,21
Thos “ ,18, Marker up?
Henry “ 10, Errand Boy
Saml “ 8
Ellen 2 6
all born in county (allegedly)
(Can’t decipher street name, possibly Wellington Street)
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Ev.
Thought You would like this (found on IGI familysearch):
Christenings
Thomas COTTERELL, 26th December 1824, Manchester Catherdral
Parents: Thomas & Ann COTTERELL
Samuel COTTRILL, 7th August 1831, Manchester Catherdral
Parents: Thomas & Ann COTTRILL
(for a 'Thomas COTTRILL[+spelling variants], Manchester)
Marriages
1. To Ann BROOKES, 24th December 1810, Manchester (Thomas Bn C1785)
There are a List of Marriages for a 'Thomas COTTILL/COTTERELL' any of which could prove to be Samuels Brothers (shown as Widower on the 1851 Census).
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Well done skb.
I have just been looking trying first names and birth years and variations on the surname but you got there first.
Fizzy
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Wow. Thanks so much, that's awesome. You are great detectives, I have been searching for him for years. I should get you looking for my Alice Cottrill nee Rothwell, bd 1867 in Bury, parents John and Rosa Rothwell nee Yates, Alice shows up at her birth and then disappears from the planet until she marries Samuels son Herbert, aka John Herbert Cottrill???? I know the family are a little weird, change spelling of names and first names from one document to the next. Herbert and Alice were my G. grandparents.
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Ev.
If You mean this Alice ROTHWELL:
Christened 26th May 1867, Prestwich, Lancashire
Parents: John & Rosa ROTHWELL
I will give it a Try! (I Like a Good Challenge!) ::) 8)
When did She Marry John Herbert COTTRELL?
I think this (Maybe) Alice on the 1881 Census(well, 2 Possibles):
1. RG11/3761, ED 12, Folio 64, Page 3.
Green House, Aspull, Wigan
James BROWNLOW, Head, Mar, 48Yrs old, Farmer of 7 Acres , Bn Aspull, Lanc's
Margaret BROWNLOW, Wife, Mar, 44Yrs old, House Keeping Domestic , Bn Aspull, Lanc's
Mary BROWNLOW, Daut, , 12Yrs old, Scholar , Bn Haigh, Lanc's
ALICE ROTHWELL , Serv, , 14Yrs old, General Domestic Servant, Bn Aspull, Lanc's
or
2. RG11/3929, ED 31, Folio 90, Page 15.
113 Bedford St, Hulme, Manchester
Maria ROTHWELL, Head, , 42Yrs old, Charwoman , Bn Manchester, Lanc's
Elizabeth A. DAWSON, Daut, UnMar , 18Yrs old, Waever Cotton , Bn Manchester, Lanc's
ALICE ROTHWELL, Step-Daut , 14Yrs old, Servant Girl , Bn Liverpool, Lanc's
Sarah A. ROTHWELL, Step-Daut , 11Yrs old, Scholar , Bn Liverpool, Lanc's
Fredk BATCHELOR, Lodger (Head),Mar, 43yrs old, House Painter , Bn Isle of Wight, Hampshire
Jane BATCHELOR, Wife, Mar , 45Yrs old, Shirt Maker , Bn Skipton, Yorkshire
Annie BATCHELOR, Daut, , 15Yrs old, Machinist , Bn Sheffied, Yorkshire
Emma J. BATCHELOR, Daut, , 7Yrs old, Scholar , Bn Bradford, Yorkshire
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Yes thats the Alice. I have a birth certificate for her. Parents are John Rothwell and Rosa (Rosamunde) Yates. Married John Herbert Cottrill or various spellings and first names, in 1884, John/Herbert had been married in Yorkshire to Eliza Ann who died, he then married Alice, who apparently was living somewhere under another name as she isn't on any census I have been able to find. Good luck and thank you.
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There are some Possibilities on the 1871 Census (We need someone with a Full Sub on ancestry to do a Look Up for Us!) ::)
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1871 Aspull
Hannah - unmarried - 33 employed at coal pit
Alice 4 aspull
Ellen 1 mth aspull
Fizzy
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Fizzy.
What was the Ref for this record?
P.S.
I Like the Name! ::) 8) 8)
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I have found a John and Rosa Rothwell in the right sort of area in 1871, but no Alice with them
RG10/3963/fo 83
15 Clegg St, Pilkington
John ROTHWELL,head,m,31,Cotton Dyer
Rosa ,wife,m,30,Cotton Weaver
Annie ,dau,10,Scholar
Mary Elizth ,dau,9,scholar
Ada ,dau,7, scholar
Margaret ,dau,2
James ,son,3m
All born Pilkington
They are also around in 1881 and 1891. Do you think this is the right family?
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Sorry to be picky, but do you know for certain that Alice daughter of John and Rosa is your Alice?
I've just noticed a death for an Alice ROTHWELL age 0 in Bury 3rd quarter 1867
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Hi.
Re Alice. My brother sent me the marriage cert of Alice to John Herbert Cottrill. Thats the information I am going off. I am of course assuming that my brother sent the right certificate. It does say on the certificate father John Rothwell mother Rosa (Rosamunde Yates), so I guess that would be correct. The date on the cert is very difficult to read, at first I thought it was 1864, that would make her 20 at her marriage to Herbert then thought maybe its 1867, which would only make her 17 at her marriage. Of course 17 is normal for that era. Her children were named Winifred, Herbert, Francis William, my grandfather, and Sarah. She is supposed to have been born in Pilkington, which I believe is in the Bury area. I don't live in England so I am not familier with Lancashire.
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The Alice servant in Aspul, on the 1881 census looks promising. Is Aspul near Bury, the names of her birthplace change, I have seen Bury, Pilkington, Whitefield and Besses o the Barn, are they all close to each other and interchangeable.
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I can see Alice, Herbert and the children on the 1891 and 1901 censuses, but Alice's birth place is shown as Oldham not Bury on both of these.
I just wanted to be certain that the Alice who you have a birth certificate for, is the same Alice as the one on the marriage certificate. It seems odd that she is not with her parents in 1871 when she would only be about 4 years old.
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As I don't have access to the 1891 and 1901 census, I didn't know about the Oldham connection, maybe I have been chasing the wrong Alice all this time and my brother got the wrong birth cert. I know the marriage cert. is the correct one because of the spouse name. Does an Alice show up with a different family anywhere else in the 1871.
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There are several Alice ROTHWELLs around but not much to suggest which one it might be. Does the marriage certificate give her father's name and occupation?
In the meantime, here are the census entries for 1901 and 1891
1901
RG13/3659/fo 138
198 Barton Lane, Eccles
Herbert COTTRELL,head,m,42,Railway Accountant,Manchester
Alice “ ,wife,m,34, Oldham
Winifred Edith “ ,dau,15,Typist & Shorthand Clerk,Swinton
Herbert “ ,son,13, Eccles
Francis Wm “ ,son,11, Eccles
Sarah “ ,dau,6, Eccles
1891
RG12/3154/fo 120
9 Smiths Fold, Bowdon View,Monton,Eccles
Herbert COTTRILL,head,m,32,Railway Clerk,Manchester
Alice “ ,wife,m,25 ,Oldham
Winefride “ ,dau,5 ,Swinton
Herbert “ ,son,3, ,Patricroft
Francis Wm “ ,son,1, ,Monton Eccles
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Thanks for the census entries, this is the correct family, as Francis William is my grandfather.
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I have been looking for Alice ROTHWELLs on the 1871 census. There are about a dozen of the right age living in Lancashire – none with a place of birth Oldham but these two might be possibilities.
Sarah Alice, aged 4, daughter of John (Self acting minder – cotton) and Sarah Ann, living in Crompton (which I believe is a couple of miles from Oldham)
Alice, aged 7, daughter of Joseph (cotton power loom weaver) and Mary, also in Crompton
I will carry on looking.
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These both look promising, are any other siblings mentioned, thought similar names might run in the family and be a clue. Could you list the entries maybe that would help. Thank you again for your help.
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They are living quite close together, so possibly related
RG10/4110/fo 8
Beal Moor, Crompton, Oldham
John ROTHWELL,head,m,30,Self Actor Minder (Cotton)
Sarah Ann “ ,wife,m,29,
Sarah Alice “ ,dau,4,Scholar
William H “ ,son,1
All born Crompton
RG10/4110/fo 65
Beal Moor, Crompton, Oldham
Joseph ROTHWELL,head,m,52,Cotton P L Weaver
Mary “ ,wife,m, 57?
Mary Ann “ ,dau u,28,Cotton P L Weaver
Sarah “ ,dau,u,24,Cotton P L Weaver
Edwin “ ,son, u,23,Cotton Yarn Maker up
Emily “ ,dau,u,10 scholar
Alice “ ,dau,7
All born Crompton
There is also this family. This Alice was born Birkenhead, but probably lived in Oldham from a very early age.
RG10/4108/fo 47
Oldham Edge, White House, Royton, Oldham
Adam ROTHWELL, head,m,30,Boiler Maker, Lancs Heywood
Ellen “ ,wife,m,31,Lancs Heywood
William A “ ,son,u,7 Scholar,Kent Old Brompton
Alice “ ,dau,u,5,Birkenhead Cheshire
Elizebeth “ ,dau,u,2,Oldham
Jane “ ,dau,u,7m,Oldham
William “ ,lodger,u,25,Labourer,Lancs Heywood
Do you have a marriage certificate for Alice and Herbert? It should give the father's name and occupation which might help to identify her.