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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: specialkg on Friday 23 March 07 09:17 GMT (UK)
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Isobel/Isabella Ogg was born on 15th April 1856 in Garrelburn, Banffshire. Her parents were Agnes Morrison and John Ogg.
Could someone look up the 1861 census. I am having difficulty finding her parent's marriage. I wondered if Agnes was her mother's middle name. If there are other brothers and sisters it may give me an idea when they married.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards
Betty
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1861 Census Parish: Grange; ED: 6; Line: 6; Year: 1861.
George Davis 6 Grand Son Grange Banffshire
Maria McDonald 2 Grand Daur Auchterless, Aberdeenshire
Alexr Ogg 14 Son Grange, Banffshire
Elspet Ogg 52 Head Keith, Banffshire
Elspet Ogg 8 Grand Daur: Keith, Banffshire
Isabella Ogg 5 Grand Daughter Keith Banffshire
Margaret Ogg 22 Daur Grange, Banffshire
William Ogg 9 Son Grange, Banffshire
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Thanks for the quick reply.
The age of Isobel/Isabella would be correct but I am not sure if it is the right one.
The mother of Isobel was Agnes. Is Agnes sometimes known as Margaret.
Is it possible to find her parents in an earlier census. They were Agnes Morrison and John Ogg. Isobel did not marry until 1877. I wonder if she was still at home in the 1871 census.
Again any help would be appreciated.
Regards
Betty
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1861 Census Keith, Banff
John Ogg 25 Servant ( Plougman ) Grange Banff
Parish: Keith; ED: 13; Line: 19; Year: 1861.
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1841 Census
Elspat Ogg abt 1811 Banffshire, Scotland Grange Banffshire
George Ogg abt 1806 Scotland Grange Banffshire
George Ogg Jur. abt 1837 Banffshire, Scotland Grange Banffshire
John Ogg abt 1834 Banffshire, Scotland Grange Banffshire
Margt Ogg abt 1840 Banffshire, Scotland Grange Banffshire
Mary Ogg abt 1833 Banffshire, Scotland Grange Banffshire
1851 Census
John Ogg abt 1835 Grange, Banffshire Servant Grange Banffshire
1841 Census Carnousie, Marnock, Banff
Agnes Morrison abt 1830 Banffshire, Scotland Marnoch Banffshire
Alexander Morrison abt 1838 Banffshire, Scotland Marnoch Banffshire
John Morrison abt 1803 Banffshire, Scotland Marnoch Banffshire
John Morrison abt 1834 Banffshire, Scotland Marnoch Banffshire
Susan Morrison abt 1801 Banffshire, Scotland Marnoch Banffshire
Susan Morrison abt 1827 Banffshire, Scotland Marnoch Banffshire
1851 Census Backhills Of Carnousie Marnock Banff
Agnes Morrison 17 Daur Work on farm Marnoch, Banffshire
Alexander Morrison 13 Son
John Morrison 49 Head Mason And Farmer Of 18 Ceus Auchterless, Aberdeenshire
John Morrison 17 Son Scholar Tarlor Marnoch, Banffshire
Mary Morrison 9 Daur
Susan Morrison 32 Wife Marnoch, Banffshire
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I am sitting here trying to make this information fit the families I am looking for. There is nothing concrete but again ages would fit.
I see John was born 1803 so is probably the father of Agnes. I unfortunately have James. I don't know where that came from but I don't have the mother's name.
The place of birth of Isobel is Garrelburn. As a matter of interest is this near the addresses on the censuses?
Thankyou for your time.
I will have to study this information a bit more.
Regards
Betty
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The place of birth of Isobel is Garrelburn. As a matter of interest is this near the addresses on the censuses?
Not especially. Garrelburn (Garralburn on modern maps - see www.streetmap.co.uk and www.geograph.org.uk) is above Newmill, north of Keith. Marnoch is at the other side of the county, beyond Huntly. It's not impossible that Agnes came from Marnoch to work around Keith.
The IGI says that her birth certificate gives her name as 'Isabella Ogg or Morrison' which is a clear indication that her parents were not married. If Agnes had been married to John, the certificate would have given her name as 'Agnes Ogg M[aiden] S[urname] Morrison, and stated the date and place of the marriage. If the certificate omits the date and place of marriage and gives her name simply as 'Agnes Morrison' they were definitely not married.
It seems clear from the 1861 census that Isabella's father was a son of Elspet Ogg. The IGI lists the birth in 1834 of John Ogg, son of George Ogg and Espit Smith. Their other children included Margaret, 1839, Alexander, 1846, and William, 1851, which matches the rest of Elspet Ogg's children in 1861.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for getting back to me on this.
I am not in direct line to this ancestor and asked my original question on behalf of a relation who we have only just found living in Australia. He had hit a brick wall researching Agnes. I am afraid I don't have all the details. What you have said would explain a few things.
I will give the information to him and hopefully what you have said will help him.
Thanks again.
Betty
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If he doesn't have a copy of the birth certificate, he needs to get it from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a modest fee.
The Kirk Session minutes of the parish of Keith contain a lot of detailed information about illegitimate pregnancies at around that time. They are almost bound to have noticed Agnes' pregnancy, and the minutes may contain some information which might point to who she was. They are held in the National Archives of Scotland www.nas.gov.uk but are not available online so you would need either to go to Edinburgh or get someone to transcribe the records on your behalf.
I see from http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp that Elspet Smith or Ogg applied for parish relief in 1859. I see from the index at Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk that a George Ogg, aged 54, died in Grange in 1859. His death certificate should tell you the names of his parents.
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I have just finished emailing the chap in Australia and suggested he might pick up on my thread. I think he may have the birth certificate and that is where he got the grandfather's name.
I will copy what you have said and send it to him. The advice you have given sounds a good possibility of learning more.
Thanks for that.
Regards
Betty
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I was in Elgin today with some time to spare so I took out the microfilm of the Grange poor relief records.
Elspet Smith or Ogg, residing in Kilbadie, Grange, applied for relief on 2nd August 1859 at 9.30 a.m. (!!) for her son Alexander Ogg, who is described as 'of weak mind'. She was described as a widow, born in Scotland, Protestant. She had a small croft and was not disabled [i.e. unable to earn a living]. Apart from Alexander, her children were James, Elizabeth, Mary, John, George, Margaret, Jane and William. All but Jane and William were in service; James was married.
The Register of Poor repeats much of the above, but adds that she was given 6d (sixpence), seven pounds of meal, and clothing for Alexander. The Register describes Alexander as 'imbecile', and says that he died on 18th February 1874.
Kilbady is about a mile from Garralburn. Both are marked on the 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey map.
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I appreciate the time you have put in getting this information and I will forward it to the person doing the research and hope he gets back to you. I have not heard from him re the other message. They will just be getting up soon!!.
Thanks again
Betty
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Betty - Have a look at this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=37805.new#new
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Brilliant.
I was just about to get in touch with you to say I had heard back from the relation in Australia when I saw your message.
I checked it out and find he has picked up on that thread and perhaps has not seen my thread.
His reply is under Filidh 46.
I will leave it up to him now to continue his research as I am not sure of all the research he has done.
Thanks again for all your help.
Regards
Betty