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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tazzie on Thursday 15 March 07 19:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi All.....
I have found on the IGI an extracted baptism entry for a THOMAS BARGROVE in Southfleet Kent 5 June 1723...however it does not give parents ???
His brothers entry ( possible brother) is also there for 15 Feb 1725 again no parents.
Can anyone shed some light on the entry please?
Thanks Tazzie
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BVRI is the same and states no parents listed. You could try Bishops Transcripts if they cover this period of the registers and see whether the parents names are found in them, but from quickly looking at other baptisms for Southfleet on the IGI for the same period, they also don't have parents names, so it looks like the register was being very badly filled in. In which case if the register is that chaotic it is unlikely the parish was making returns to the Bishop of copies of the registers.
Images of the actual parish register to check whether the parents names are actually there or not, can be purchased from North West Kent Family History Society.
http://www.nwkfhs.org.uk/pub_pr.htm
Regards
Valda
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The Kent Archaeological Society website has some BARGROVE entries for Southfleet.
http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsSouthfleet/MIsSouthfleet.htm
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Good evening Valda...
Shame I was hoping that it would just be a batch but as they seemed to be missed on others it doesn't bode well does it?
I will try North Kent FHS and see what is available its taken alot of digging to get this far with them they wont get away that easily now.
Many thanks
Tazzie
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Bearkat.....
Thats great have started looking and jotting down all of them this could be a big help THANKS ;D
Tazzie
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Prerogative of Canterbury wills
Will of William Bargrove, Yeoman of Southfleet , Kent 22 October 1746 PROB 11/750
Will of Edward Bargrove, Yeoman of Southfleet , Kent 27 March 1775 PROB 11/1005
Will of William Bargrove, Yeoman of Southfleet , Kent 01 August 1782 PROB 11/1094
If some of the family left PCC wills then I would also check with Kent Record Office to see whether any other wills were probated locally.
Regards
Valda
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There are also a few BARGROVE entries on Maureen Rawson's searchable Kent Genealogy website
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mrawson/
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Hello Valda and Bearkat.....
Thank you both for those sites. They do seemed to be putting the picture together for me. The wills would be a great one as that could expand on some names as well.
I will have a good look through and see what I can match up.
Sorry for the delay in answering have just been on a video chat to Canada...isn't the internet great!
Thank you both
Tazzie
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Hi Tazzie
The parish registers for Southfleet are online:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bl/
Casalguidi :)
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Thanks Casalguidi,
I will have a good look at that site as there are loads of pages to go through it will keep me busy.
Thanks
Tazzie
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BARGROVE
Thomas ye son of William and Margaret BARGROVE, was baptized June ye 5th 1723, by me J Price
From Southfleet registers on CityArk.
There was a burial for a John in 1734
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Hi Eyesee
Great thanks for that one .....can't start them all until my boys are at school so have sorted the dates to check ready.
John buried 1734 12 April was age 60 found him on the memorials listed above .
John's(1734) son was William(d1746 age 46) who was married to a Margaret(d1765 age 73)...so Thomas was Johns grandson.....does that make sense?
Tazzie
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Hi Tazzie,
I've just joined Rootschat and found your messages about the BARGROVE family - I know you wrote them some time ago now, but thought I'd contact you in case you are still researching them. I am a Bargrove, and the people mentioned above are in my tree - William is my 7x grandfather. I have the direct line back to his grandfather (b c 1648). There are lots of Mary Bargroves, but I haven't been able to place the one you mention - did you ever find out? If you have any questions about the family let me know - maybe I'll have some of the missing pieces of your jigsaw (or maybe you'll have some of mine)! Best wishes, Janie
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Hi Janie .....
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Well yes I am still searching for the correct Mary. All I have is the marriage of Mary Bargrove to George Liscoe in 1813 in Bermondsey.
There is a baptism in 1785 for a Mary Bargrove in St Saviour Southwark but no parents stated for the records. There is an Elizabeth b 1783 same church to a Chas. Bargrove & Sarah. I believe Sarah is Sarah Symonds and they married in 1775 Shoreditch.
The only Charles mentioned on IGI gave me the link to Kent with Charles bap in West Wickham to a Thomas & Mary.... but without delving further it is speculation that this is the right Charles.
It has been a while since I looked at them thats true so I will get my info out and see what else I can find that may give us a clue.
Tazzie
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Hi Tazzie, I went to the National Archives today and while I was there I found details of Mary Bargrove's family! Her father was Richard Bargrove, a "carrier" from Sydenham, parish of Lewisham. I think it said he worked for the Earl of Dartmouth, but the writing in his will was difficult to say the least! Mary's mother was Sarah. Mary had one brother living at the time of the will in 1816, but I think she also had a brother Thomas who must have died by then. She had 4 sisters - Sara, Maria, Ann and Harriet. I think you're spot on with your thoughts that Charles is part of the family. As far as I know, Charles was one of Richard's brothers, along with Thomas, John Hope and William. Richard also had sisters - Anne and Mary. John Hope married Maria Atkins, who mentioned George Liscoe in her will of 1843 - she left him £2! Richard et al's parents were indeed Thomas and Mary (nee Hope) m Westminster 1749 and lived in West Wickham. He was a yeoman. All that said, I still can't link them into my line, but I know they fit somewhere as there is only one Bargrove family! Hope this info is useful to you and not too confusing! I have a chart of this family if you'd like me to email it to you. Meanwhile, if I find anything else I'll let you know. Best wishes, Janie.
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Hello Janie.....
Wow.... you have been busy. That info is fantastic. I have typed them in on the web site so will down load them and have a good look.
£2 ..... Well I always said they had money.
I need to have a good look at all of this and try to place the people named.
You are a real STAR.... :)
Best wishes to you
Tazzie
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Hi Janie
If you get a chance to go back to TNA it would be worth checking the Death Duty registers.
TNA research guide
Death Duty Records, From 1796
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107
'They show what happened to someone's personal estate (not freehold) after death; and what it was actually worth, excluding debts and expenses. They can give the name of the deceased, with address and last occupation, the date of the will, the place and date of probate, the names, addresses and occupations of the executors, and details of estates, legacies, trustees, legatees, annuities and the duty paid. They can also give the date of death, and information about the people who received bequests (beneficiaries), or who were the next-of-kin, such as exact relationship to the deceased. Tax was not payable on bequests to people within a closely defined family circle, and as a result the family relationship was often noted in the registers. In 1796, tax was not payable on bequests to offspring, spouse, parents and grandparents. In 1805, the exemption was restricted to spouse and parents. From 1815, only bequests to the spouse were exempt from paying tax. Because the registers could be annotated for many years after the first entry, they can include information such as dates of death of spouse; dates of death or marriage of beneficiaries; births of posthumous children and grandchildren; change of address; references to law suits, cross references to other entries, etc'
There are other Bargrave wills proved locally and held at Canterbury Records Office but not for Southfleet
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_b.htm
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda,
Many thanks for the suggestions - I had never thought of checking Death Duty registers, but I will certainly do that when I next go to TNA. I'm fortunate to only live about 6 miles away from there so I hope to go back in a couple of weeks. I have only recently discovered it so I'm still finding my way around. All suggestions on the best places to check out there are very welcome!
Hi Tazzie,
I was so pleased when I found the info you needed- such satisfaction! But I forgot to mention dates! Thomas was 1717-1794, I don't have details on his wife Mary. Their children were: Thomas 1750-1797, John Hope 1751-1828 & his wife Maria 1768-1843 (married 1786 in West Wickham), Anne 1753, Charles 1755 (m Sarah Symonds 1775 St Leonards Shoreditch), Mary 1759 (m John Fryer 1779 St Leonards), Richard 1760, but as yet no date for William. I am wondering whether Thomas (the elder) is actually a Thomas on my tree. My Thomas is the one which you were checking out at the start, born 1723. I have no details for him other than his birth in Southfleet Parish Register (on Medway Cityark) so maybe he moved away from the rest of his family in Southfleet or died, or maybe lied about his birth date for some reason. More delving needed! By the way, if you check out the West Wickham MIs some of your Thomas' family are on there.
Best wishes to you both,
Janie.
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My great great grandmother was Margaret Bargroveborn c 1837 probably at Northfleet. Her father was William Bargrove of Northfleet a farmer on her marriage certificate. She married Dr Edward Lamburn Simmons who had just completed his medical training at St Thomas Hospital on 14 June 1859 at Holy Trinity Newwington Surrey. Both ages given as full . Shortly after their marriage they sailedfor Victoria- Edward practised in Gippsland and later in St Kilda (1882- 1902) Margaret died in September 1896 at their home Brooklands rosedale Victoria.
When I found Margaret on the 1851 census she was with her mother at Newington.
The IGI shows a marriage for a an Esther Wooding on 8 December1834 to a William Bargrove at Northfleet i am wondering if these are my family and if there were any other children? I live in NSW so its not always easy to do research. I'd be very grateful if anyone can help me sort out this part of my tree
rilla
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Hi Rilla
Just going over this with you I am having difficulty finding Margaret and her mother in the 1851 census ......... what name are they using and are they at Newington in Kent or Surrey?
However, you can actually view the parish registers of Northfleet online (follow the link to online parish registers in the menu on the left of the page) http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/
Casalguidi :)
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Hi
I think Rilla may mean the 1841 census?
1841 census HO107 1061/7 folio 42
Charles Street Lambeth Surrey
Hester Bargrove 25
Margart Bargrove 4
both not born in county
also same census
HO107 485/7 folio 23
Belson Southfleet
Ester Bargrove 27
Margaret Bargrove 3
Carlione Wooding 14
all born in county
Margaret was of the parish of Milton next to Gravesend on her marriage in Newington in 1859.
There is a marriage of an Esther Bargrove in Kent in 1846
Marriages Mar 1846
Bargrove Esther Dartford 5 129
BURT George Dartford 5 129
A possibility for the couple on the 1851 census in Stone Kent HO107 1607 folio 529. The banns were read at St Saviour Southwark 24th April 1842 but the marriage did not take place. Esther was a widow. Esther the wife of George Burt was aged 37 and born Meopham Kent. The eldest Burt child on the census was aged 8. George looks to have remarried by 1861.
Possible death registration for Esther.
Deaths Mar 1854
Burt Esther Dartford 2a 145
A Mary Bargrove - enumerated as Mary aged 13 on the 1851 census in a school in Gravesend Kent. Her birthplace is given as Dartford. HO107 1668 folio 141
A possible death registration of a William Bargrove of Northfleet in 1840.
Deaths Sep 1840
BARGROVE William N Aylesford 5 26_
He left a Prerogative Court of Canterbury will
Will of William Bargrove, Farmer of Northfleet , Kent
21 July 1840
PROB 11/1930
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=6&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1
A possible for Esther Wooding's baptism, though she would have been adjusting her age a little on censuses.
HESTER WOODING
Christening: 01 MAR 1812 Meopham, Kent
Father: THOMAS WOODING
Mother: ANN
Regards
Valda
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Thank you very much for your rapid responses - The main story I know about Margaret is that she brought her piano to Australia which seems to indicate a reasonable amount of finance in the family. Left alone when her Dr husband road off into the bush to tend his patients she would play her piano One dat\y she heard a sound and discovered an armed hunting party of aborigines outside She kept playing and the men moved on to her great relief, At the time they lived at Eagle Point an isolated settlement near Bairnsdale Later they moved to Rosedale a more central location for the doctor. There were also romours oof money in Chancery !
I will study all I've now accumulated and see what else I can glean from this.
Rilla
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Hi
Money in Chancery - useful summary and link
http://www.paytontate.com/resources/chancery/
Regards
Valda
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Many thanks Valda
i now have a copy of William's will which confirms that Margaret was an only child and his wife was Ester She was left the farm etc provided she did not remarry
i think the 1851 census return showing Margaret at school Rilla
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Hi Janie
Thanks for the info you posted on the Bargrove family I purchased the wills of my William 1772-1840 and Thomas who I think was William's grandfather -but I am not sure about William's parents. Can you help me. Isn't it marvellous the more we find out the more we want to know!
Also I tried looking for Margaret Bargrove's half siblings - ie George Burts children but they seem to disappear after the 1861 census.
Thanks for your help I'd like to knw exactly who William's parents were!
Rilla