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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Rex N P on Monday 12 March 07 01:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Rex N P on Monday 12 March 07 01:20 GMT (UK)
I wonder if anyone would be kind enough to clean up this photo please?

It is Alexander Brown and family.  I was told it was taken about 1860.  Does that seem right?

Thanks in anticipation.

Rex
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Woodentop50 on Monday 12 March 07 01:47 GMT (UK)
Hello Rex,

Here is a bit of a tidy for you.

                                           Jim
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Rex N P on Monday 12 March 07 01:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jim.  That's an amazing improvement.
Rex
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Woodentop50 on Monday 12 March 07 02:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Rex,

I had to rebuild the lady's face on the right. From the spares department    :o

I think it might confuse your descendants , way off in the future .


                                                   Jim
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: chinakay on Monday 12 March 07 02:30 GMT (UK)
As long as she doesn't look too much like you, Jim ;D

As for the 1860 date, let me throw in a comment until the real talent shows up. It's a very good guess at a date. The ladies are all wearing bonnets and their ears are covered, not necessarily by hair. The voluminous look to the skirts, and the texture of the fabric, look to me like very early 1860s. The way they are grouped makes it difficult to see too much of their clothing, unfortunately, but if OR weighs in on this one all he needs to see is a pinky finger ;D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: PrueM on Monday 12 March 07 02:55 GMT (UK)
Yep, I'd say 1860 or very near, within a year or two.  The skirts still have that fullness at the front that started to disappear by the mid 60s.  The pose and construction of the picture point to that date as well.
Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: chinakay on Monday 12 March 07 03:24 GMT (UK)
What's that red thing on the original, it wasn't there before.
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Rex N P on Monday 12 March 07 06:56 GMT (UK)
Thanks again Jim.  I think you did a great job re-building Jessie's face, it looks pretty faithful to the original (what one can see of it) and features are consistent with the other family members.

And thanks to the other contributors for the comments re date etc.

By the way, I don't know where the red dot came from.  I had intended to erase it before posting the photo, but forgot.  Oops!

Rex
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Woodentop50 on Monday 12 March 07 10:36 GMT (UK)
Rex,

Just to let you know,

When people look at someone and say , " she has her mothers mouth " or " she has the same nose has her sister".
Well , in this case , it's true . I also duplicated her left eye , reversed it , to use as her right one. It would be interesting , if you ever found another photo of her , to compare it.

                                              Jim
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: tomkin on Monday 12 March 07 12:48 GMT (UK)
 Hi Rex,
              I'm suspicious of the black marks on the dress.
  Looks like someone has been busy with a pen.
   Might be  wrong,

       Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Woodentop50 on Monday 12 March 07 12:56 GMT (UK)
Tomkin,

I think you might be right there , well spotted   ;D
 the eyes were touched in as well.

                                                                Jim
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: tomkin on Monday 12 March 07 14:21 GMT (UK)
 The lady on the right also has a neck like a giraffe. It's no wonder
 she has it well covered. It may well be that the severe slope of her
shoulders is creating an optical illusion which is made even worse on my
clean up.  It just doesn't look right but I'm loathe to " fiddle" the photo
to make it look better. ( i.e. on mine it looks as if her head is stuck on a
pole. so I carefully measured it on the original. Trouble is that it is now stuck
in my mind. )

      Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

           
 
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: chinakay on Monday 12 March 07 14:31 GMT (UK)
Three of them have had their eyes messed with, and the man's lapels and shoes, too. Looks like a Microsoft Paint effort ;D

C
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: PrueM on Monday 12 March 07 19:58 GMT (UK)
The retouching would have been done at the time the photo was printed, to enhance details in the photo that were possibly a bit blurry or indistinct - unfortunately as teh photo has faded, the ink hasn't, so it's now a bit "obvious"  ;D
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: tomkin on Tuesday 13 March 07 01:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Rex,

         I must bow to PrueM's superior knowledge on the subject. All I know
is that the "old biddy" looks like a spotted dick. The poor old soul looks as though she has
a problem with the right hand side of her face so I have left that it on my effort. I must agree
with Jim on reconstruction. I don't really agree with it but who wants to leave a blank space.
    Any way they all look too sombre for me so I thought I'd brighten them up a bit. ;D ;D ;D

      Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Rex N P on Tuesday 13 March 07 01:52 GMT (UK)
I thought there was something funny about those spots on poor Agnes' dress, but it didn't dawn on me that they had been put there later.  But now you mention it, I agree.  And the spots aren't even done very well.  Same with the other touch ups.  All rather crude.

Sadly, the lady who sent me that photo over 10 years ago has since passed away, so I can't even ask her about it.

Thanks to all of you for your improvements and comments.  Very much appreciated!

Rex
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 13 March 07 02:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Rex

Here's my clean up.

Caz
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Rex N P on Tuesday 13 March 07 02:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks Caz.  Nicely done.  Even the spots look better!  :)

Rex
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: waiteohman on Tuesday 13 March 07 03:47 GMT (UK)
Hello Rex

Are the first names of your Browns known? If so, would you share the info please?

I am researching an Eliza  Brown born Ireland about 1801 and living in Lanarkshire in 1861.

Cheers,
Linda
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 13 March 07 06:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Rex

Er, slow day at work LOL  ;D

Caz
Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: Rex N P on Tuesday 13 March 07 06:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks Caz, that's beautiful.  And also thanks to Jim and Tomkin.  I never thought it would be possible considering what you had to start with :)

To answer Linda's question: the father is Alexander Brown, born abt 1800 in Ayrshire, died 1872 in Glasgow.  His parents were James Brown and Margaret (nee Pollock).  Alexander's wife was Agnes Pitkethley, born 1805 Forgandenny, Perthshire, died 1874 St Mary, Dundee.  (Agnes was the elder sister of my 3x great grandfather George Pitkethley 1816-1880).  I'm not aware of any Irish connection, unless James or Margaret had an Irish connection.

Cheers

Rex

Title: Re: Brown family Scotland
Post by: waiteohman on Tuesday 13 March 07 15:31 GMT (UK)
Lovely pic and thanks Rex for the details.

I need to find the marriage of Eliza's daughter Mary to Samuel Rainey/Rennie most likely in Co. Down Ireland (birthplaces given as Co. Down on 1871 Scotland Census) abt 1851 to confirm Mary's father/ spouse of Eliza. The connection I have made to Eliza so far, is that her granddaughter, my great great grandmother was visiting with her on the 1861 census and both Eliza Jane's parents were living when she married. I have the certificate for Eliza Jane. I do see Eliza's son John is born in Ireland and looks like Mary as well.  It seems that families from Scotland have been found to work in Ireland and visa versa. Mary Rennie nee Brown was an engineer before she married.

Scotland 1861 Census Reg 644/8 ED 47
Lanarkshire, Gasgow Barony, Anderston
80 Finnieston St
Eliza Brown head 60 Ireland
John Brown son 32 Ireland
Eliza Jane Rennie 10 grandaughter Glasgow
(Eliza Jane married in Glasgow and is found listed as born both in Ireland & Scotland on later census' with her husband Michael Dorman. On children's birth records she is Eliza Jane, Jane, Jeannie)

This looks like my Mary Brown m. Rennie transcribed as Kennie:

Scotland 1861 Census Reg 578 ED 4
Ayrshire, Ayr
160 High Street
Samuel Kennie head 37  Ireland agricultural labourer
Mary Kennie  wife 36 Ireland former engineer
David Kennie  son 7 Ireland
Sarah Kennie  daughter 4  Kirkcoley, Higtonshire (Kirkcolm, Wigtownshire)
Margaret Kennie  daughter 2   "           "
(I have confirmed Sarah & Margaret on the IGI as born to Samuel Rainey/Rainnie & Mary Brown)

It is a funny coincidence that my Mary Rennie (n. Brown) resides in Ayrshire after leaving Ireland. Relatives nearby?? your Browns ??

Interesting there is an Irish Eliza married to a John Brown from Ayrshire; however the dates don't jive for my Eliza - 10 years off, give or take with the 1841. Makes you wonder, did this Eliza cross to Scotland, or this John to Ireland than back to Scotland.

Scotland 1841 Census, Reg 597 ED 22
Kilmarnock- Ayrshire , Kilmarnock
Back Lane
BROWN John M 60 Cotton Hand Loom Weaver Ayrshire
BROWN Eliza F 50 Ireland

I'm hoping for some Irish luck to get a breakthrough. Thanks again for the details.

Cheers,
Linda