RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: melv on Wednesday 07 March 07 15:57 GMT (UK)
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hi folks, looking any information on a john melville, born donaghadee area around 1891, any birth cert records would be much appreciated, melv
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Hi Melv
You can put a wee request in with this website and they will look up on him to see if he is in 1891 Birth Indexes or not.
Here's the website: www.familyulster.com
Only one pound per year!
Kind regards,
Tees
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thanks for that tees, have already done so.
regards melv.
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Hi Melv.
You are more than welcome!
Hope you are spot on his birth year!
Do you have his marriage entry? If so, do tell me what was his father's name?
I will try and find his parents' marriage entry in that area.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi Melv.
There is another way to obtain your John Melville's birth record is to go this website:
www.ancestryireland.com (Ulster Historical Foundation)
For 6 pounds, you get to have a transcribed birth entry or baptism entry or both at the same time!
I take a look at UHF--indeed, there is only ONE 1891 John Melville birth/baptism entry!! In Co Down...I do not know if it is a birth entry or a baptism entry--you would have to order it.
I will be more than happy to find his parents' marriage registration for you on other database, saving you a bit of money as well!
I have take a peek at other databases--there are heaps of Melville marriages in Co Down!
Kind regards,
Tees
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hi tees, yes i have his marriage cert, i had used uhf to find it, his fathers name was james, john (my grandfather) was 20 at the time of his marriage to mary ann miskimmins on the 24/mar /1911, im pretty sure the 1891 birth / baptism entry in uhf is him,i am searching many directions of family tree,and iam out a small fortune at £6 a go,then £11 for each cert, so i just thought i would post to see if anyone already had the info, before i order it. many thanks for your help. melv.
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Hi Melv
Yes, I understand your position regarding the costs.
It would be to your advantage if you use the Irish GRO (in Ireland, not Northern Ireland) as you can get a photocopy of birth entry for only 6 euros. If you need a certified one, it will cost 10 euros.
OR use the reference information off the Family Ulster's finding and obtain the birth entry from Belfast GRO for 5.50 pounds. With this option, you must post the application to them as they won't do any online request.
Hope this information help you a bit. Will try and find his father's marriage registration--not hopeful as I do not have his mother's name to start with! :)
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi again,
There are several James Melville marriage registrations in Co Down--think we should wait for his birth entry to arrive.
You did put in the request with the Family Ulster for the look up in the birth indexes prior to my post here?
What did the result say?
Doing genealogical research in Ireland is a bit dear than doing in England & Wales or Scotland because there is no county record office to go to do a bit of look-ups in various parish records. That is one "big" negative.
Since you have a marriage entry, it should be "easy" to trace him.
Wishing you the best of luck!!
Kind regards,
Tees
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hi tees,
thanks for that info on the irish g.r.o., handy to know.
only enquired on friday to the u.h.f., will let u know when i get reply,
regards melv.
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hi tees,
thanks for that info on the irish g.r.o., handy to know.
only enquired on friday to the u.h.f., will let u know when i get reply,
regards melv.
results from ulster family, no reference of a john melville, born 1891, yet
ancestry ireland, show there is a record, confused. melv.
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Hi melv
It may mean the UHF has a church record on John Melville's baptism/birth entry.
Not all the births were registered in Ireland.
Perhaps his surname was mistranscribed which is not common in any civil registration.
It would to be to your advantage if you try to purchase that a 1891 entry on UHF to see what it contains on your John Melville.
I have two rellies who were not registered at all but were baptised in a church--the entries have their birth dates. This was from the UHF.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi melv
It may mean the UHF has a church record on John Melville's baptism/birth entry.
Not all the births were registered in Ireland.
Perhaps his surname was mistranscribed which is not common in any civil registration.
It would to be to your advantage if you try to purchase that a 1891 entry on UHF to see what it contains on your John Melville.
I have two rellies who were not registered at all but were baptised in a church--the entries have their birth dates. This was from the UHF.
Kind regards,
Tees
no luck, the john melville,on the uhf site, born 1891, was not my grandfather. melv.
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Hi Melv,
Aw! I was hoping we have him this time.
Oh, dear...the familyulster stated that there is no John Melville in the Birth Indexes? (Did you specifically state his birthplace? I hope not! As the Indexes covered all the Island of Ireland up to 1922.)
Umm...then that 1891 entry on UHF was not yours either--how do you know it was not him? No James in Father's name on this entry, yes? (If it does have a James but as a middle name in Father's name--do not be so quick to dismiss it.)
That leaves us with the choices:
1) Your John Melville's age on his marriage certificate may be a tad bit off (not surprised by this fact)
2) Your John Melville may erroneously thought his birthplace was...sadly, no Irish censuses earlier than 1901 and 1911 are with us to-day.
3) Try and find a church in Donaghadee to see if they have his baptism entry and hopefully, his parents' marriage entry (that will help you a lot as it will contains his baptism date and hopefully his birth date)
4) Go back and ask the FamilyUlster nicely if they could double-check the 1891 Birth Indexes to see if he is under a mistranscribed surname (you never know!)
5) This is what I would do--widen your search on the Birth Indexes in the years 1890 and 1892, possibly 1889--just to make sure we do not miss him. You would have to stress the fact that you may do not know if his surname was correctly transcribed. If your John Melville gives his age, do not forget that we do not know his birth date--he may be born later in the year or earlier in the year. His parents may have registered him "late" because he was born at the end of year--probably was in 1892 instead.
Just sit back and chew on my suggestions and possible scenarios.
It is hard to do Irish Genealogy without the censuses to back you up.
By the way, I realise that I never ask you where did your John married. In Ireland or England? How did you know he was born in Donaghadee?
Sorry about this. :(
Kind regards,
Tees
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hi tees,
john was married in newtownards, i dont know why i assume he was born in ireland, could be that i thought it was him in the u.h.f all along, i shall have to read over all my notes to be sure. the john melville mentioned on the u.h.f. site, his fathers name was Daniel and was R.C. and not C.O.I., sure if this game was that easy it wouldnt be half the fun, i know i will find him sooner or later ;D, regards melv.
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Hi Melv,
Did you look at other John Melville birth/baptism entries in the basket?? See any with a right father's name?
In the North of Ireland, I won't be so surprised to see if one relative or two changed the religion in this period--not so common according to few Rootschatters here--I myself found that I have few Protestant ancestors married into the Catholic families.
Another thought---it is possible that his parents were in Scotland and at some point, they decided to return to Ireland with your grandad as a small boy. It may be where he thought he was born in because nearly everyone in his family was from there (in Ireland/Northern Ireland). It did happen to me--I was told that my Dad's aunt was born in Ireland but I could not find her anywehre--it turned she was born in Scotland like my granny. ::)
Do try this website: www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
A wee word of caution--not all the Irish databases are 100% complete. That is a part of the problem with researching the Irish genealogy!!
Awaiting your further reply with much interest. I will be glad to check the marriage database for you if you need to double-check. :)
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi Melv,
Do you know if your grandad had any brothers or sisters? It can help us tracing his parents.
Hopefully, you do know your great-uncles/aunts' names.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Here are possible marriages for your g grandparents' starting with one marriage I found in Donaghadee.
1) 26 Apt 1872, James Melville married Mary Kennedy in the Millisle Presbyterian Church in the Parish of Donaghadee, Newtownards, Co Down
2) 12 Nov 1883, James Melville married Mary Gordon in Newtownards Civil Registrars Office, in the Parish of Newtownards, Newtownards, Co Down
3) 19 May 1874, the couple with same names above, married in Carrickfergus Congregational Church, in the Parish of Carrickfergus, Larne, Co Antrim
4) 25 Dec 1882, James Melville married Robertina Maxwell in Saint Enochs Presbyterian Church, in the Parish of Shankill, Belfast, Co Antrim
5) 22 Aug 1857, James Melville & Mary Hughes married in Newry Civil Registrars Office, in the Parish of Newry, Newry, Co Armagh/Down
6) 20 Sept 1848, James Melville married Margaret Bailey in Ballyhemlin Non-Subscribing Presbyterian Church in the Parish of Ballyhalbert, Newtownards, Co Down.
I found some birth registrations in Donaghadee with the parents named: James Melville & Mary Ann McCollum and James Melville & Margaret Baille (Bailey)
This got me thinking it is possible that your John's birth registration was under misspelt surname--here is the possible surnames...
Melly, Mellon, Melvin, OMelvena--the first two I doubt but last two are likely possibles.
I think it would be a worthwhile to find out which is the nearest CoI in Donaghadee to see if they have your grandad's birth/baptism entry in their parish records?
Where did your Grandad die? Hopefully, in Scotland???
Kind regards,
Tees
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hello again tees, many thanks for taking the time to help me .
there was no john Melville with fathers name of James in the basket, and the one i referred too ( fathers name Daniel) was from downpatrick, so iam pretty sure it cant be him.
sorry to say i know very little about my Melville name, so i don't know if my g/father had any brothers or sisters.
some interesting names you have given me regarding possible marriages,
no 2 stands out date wise?
i had come across the birth regs before of Mary Ann mccollum and Margaret Baillie , and i hope some of these names will fit in somewhere down the line in the family tree.
my grandparents died in donaghadee, and are buried in ballyvester graveyard
thanking you again , melv
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Hi melv
Aw, I am sorry that you do not know grandparents that well.
Don't you have any remaining elderly relatives, I suppose? Perhaps they can tell you a bit more about your Grandad?
Are you based in NI? If so, wondering if you could make it a day trip to Belfast to pop in the GRO to look up in the Indexes (all the BMDs) for just a tenner! And list all possible John Melville births you can find.
Or you can enquire at the local churches about him? Hopefully, one of them could come up with the information for you.
Kind regards,
Tees
PS Do let me know if you are based in NI or not.
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Melv,
No. 2 Marriage sounds a likely candidate for your grandad's parents--but we need a solid proof like:
1) his siblings' (including himself) birth certificates to shed who was his parents
2) 1901 Irish Census can help us in identifying which parents--you can access to this at PRONI in Belfast or the National Archives in Dublin.
3) the church entries may be very useful...
I am leaving you with some food for thoughts! :)
Kind regards,
Tees
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hi melv
i am a miskimmin from donaghadee i think we are related did you live at the cottown i remember a junior melville
my g grandfather was also james miskimmin
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hi barbara, yes we are indeed related, you sent me some info on the miskimmin
family back in feb (through emily), so thanks again for that it was very helpful.
my grandparents lived at the cottown, and junior is a cousin of mine, he used to come to belfast and stay weekends at our house back in the seventies, must be twenty odd years since i last saw him, regards melv.