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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: PrueM on Friday 02 March 07 08:27 GMT (UK)
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Following on from my earlier post about my HAYNES family:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,212066.0.html
...I am interested in finding potential burial places for members of the family, who are said to have lived in the townland of Inchigaggin, just west of the city of Cork. Nearby towns are Ballincollig and Carrigrohane, among others.
I have got myself a lovely map - a 1:50,000 OS map of part of Cork which shows Inchigaggin quite close to the river Lee between Carrigrohane and Cork proper. The nearest graveyards marked on the map are at Carrigrohane (on Model Farm Road) and over the river near Mackey's Cross.
I have found a few online sites with links to transcriptions etc. for Cork graveyards but none have info about these two (and anyway, I don't know what they would be called). According to the Diocese of Cork and Ross website:
Prior to the opening of St Joseph's [in 1830], Catholics were buried in Kilcrea near Ovens, Douglas, Currykippane near Clogheen, Carrigrohane and Kilcully near Dublin Hill.
Does anyone have any hints about finding possible burials in this area? The time period I'm looking at initially would be 1800-1850 or so.
THANK YOU for any help! :D
Cheers
Prue
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Hi,
Sorry dont have any info or hints about burials etc, but would you be able to tell me if a place called Sheermount is on your map or Lyre Seat
Thanks Dez
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I know both Curraghkippaune and Kilcully very well indeed. I was up in Kilcully only two weeks ago. Several members of my family are buried in both graveyards. If you contact Cork Corporation, they will put you onto the Dept which deals with graves. I spoke about two years ago to the caretaker of Curraghkippaune, but as far as I remember, written records go back only to the 1930s. I was looking for a burial in the 1920s and he could give no info, so I fear that you are unlikely to find any records going back to the period which you are researching.
The Curragh is a lovely graveyard and overlooks the River Lee. It is up high on a hill near to a place known as Kerry Pike. It is an ancient burial ground and members of my family have been buried there for generations. It also contains the grave of the man who had the longest funeral journey in the world. I will have to look up the details. I think the guy was Jerome Collins, and he was related to my family in some way.
Kilcully, or St Catherine's Kilcully, to give it its full name, is by far my favourite. The old graveyard is very small indeed and when I was there all you could hear was the sound of birdsong and in the distance the faint noise of a tractor. Like Curraghkippaune, it is rural, but a newer and much larger graveyard has been built a few yards from it, but it in no way obscures the old and is actually out of sight of the old. Members of my family have been buried there, in the old graveyard, since at least 1880, and there are a lot of older graves there too, but again, I doubt you will find any records going back that far. There are registers for graveyards and these are kept by either Cork City Corporation or Cork County Council, but, as I said earlier, they are too recent to be of any great use.
You can get a good view of both graveyards on Google Earth, and I will try to figure a way to give coordinates from the program so that you can have a look.
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PS- I doubt anyone from the Inchigaggin area would be buried in Kilcully, or in Ovens for that matter. Curraghkippaune is by far your best bet. It is a stone's throw from Inchigaggin. Kilcully, while not a million miles away, is too far for territorial people like Corkonians to consider burying someone from Inchigaggin there. Cork people tended to go for the nearest graveyard and then buried generations of their people there. Kilcully's inhabitants consist, by the overwhelming majority, of people from the Northside of Cork, not the West.
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Thanks Ceallachain, for all that fantastic info :D Looks like, apart from visiting the spots myself and trying to find a gravestone or two to find out for sure, I will have to assume that the family were buried where you suggest. I found a photo of Curraghkippaune graveyard on the web, it looks a really beautiful place - I hope that's where my Hayneses are. They would get a lovely view from there :)
Thanks again for your help. It's great to be able to tap into local knowledge like this!
Cheers
Prue
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Hi,
Sorry dont have any info or hints about burials etc, but would you be able to tell me if a place called Sheermount is on your map or Lyre Seat
Thanks Dez
Hi Dez,
Sorry, but this map doesn't have an index so I can't look these places up...do you have any clue as to where they may have been? Near to Cork city, or further afield?
Prue
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Glad to be of help on the graveyards. The Cork custom of territoriality over family graves has thrown up a few unusual situations in my own family. My Great-Grandfather and my Great-Grandmother are both buried in different graveyards, although they both died in the same house, and my Grandmother and Grandfather are also buried in separate graveyards, because, like the Greats, they wanted each to be buried with 'their own people'. It never caused any friction between them when they expressed this wish and was accepted by all as quite normal.
For Dez- I have never heard of any place in Cork named Sheermount or Lyre Seat and I know the city and county pretty well. Is it poss that they are names of houses rather than places?
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Hi all,
1st of all apologies to pruem for hijacking this thread,Sorry!.
I am unsure where sheermount & lyre seat are located. an elderly relative did some research many years ago into our family history. He left a scrap peice of paper with these names which i presumed were place names .there is some detail on the paper as to the location , but unfortunately i will not be able to access the paper for a couple of weeks.i will get back to you, thanks again pruem & ceallachain. DEZ
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OK, Dez. They sound like house names rather than placenames to me. There are many big houses in Cork and its environs, so you never know! Looking forward to hearing from you again.
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Hi Ceallachain,
I've posted a thread on the main Cork message board with regards to my Sheermount Query.
dez
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Thanks all for your help. I have now located the placename in Ireland. Sorry for misleading you all, lol. It is Grand Parade, Greenmount,Cork
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Dmartin, Grand Parade & Greenmount are two separate places. Grand Parade is a thoroughfare in the city centre. Greenmount is a mainly residential area just outside the city centre. Not sure what other info you have but if you post any further info it may help clear things up.
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Another graveyard which is very old is KILBONANE not far from Ballincollig and where I recently found ancestors buried there
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Thank you, ballydw - I will make a note of that one too :)
Prue
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Hi ,
I know I answered your previous query.
Just wondering if your Haynes were Catholics or Church of Ireland.
I found a marriage for a John Haynes & Margaret Daly on
Irish genealogy website.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/cork%20%26%20ross.south%20parish%20%28st.%20finbarrs%29.p4780.00078.pdf
You might have seen this already. The unusual thing about this
is at the top is say Rev O'Connor , Vicar ( which is unusual for an R.C church). They seemed to be living in the City centre.
Re burial place,I would say St. Finbarrs Cemetery, Glasheen Road would be a strong possibility as it is very near to
Inchigaggin, about a mile and a half. St Finbarrs is multi denominational.
St Peters Carrigrohane is Church of Ireland and the
nearest to Inchigaggin.
Curraghakippane is to the North of Inchigaggin, about two miles by road.
There is a very small cemetery known as Carrigrohane Beg about half a mile from Inchigaggin.
Do you have a name and date of death for your ancestor?
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Hi Mary,
Thank for your further thoughts on this :)
Yes, I have that marriage thank you, and quite a few others (and baptisms) from that wonderful website. The Haynes family was Catholic, I hadn't clocked that a vicar performed the ceremony! I wonder what would explain that?
John Joseph Haynes who married Margaret Daly was a publican and bookkeeper in Cork as far as I'm aware, but the information I have from other family researchers is that the family was from Inchigaggin. John Joseph's parents (John William, and Ellen TOOMEY) emigrated to Australia as he did himself, but previous generations stayed in Ireland. The earliest definite Haynes I have is John William's parents, Richard Haynes and Catherine Coghlan. Unfortunately I don't have birth, marriage or death dates for either of them, but their first (known) child was John William in about 1789.
Thank you for your continued interest! I appreciate it :)
Cheers
Prue
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P.S. Just did a quick Google check and apparently "Vicar" and "reverend" are titles used in the Catholic church...you learn something new every day :)
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Thanks for the extra info.
Like you I never heard of a Vicar in the Catholic church.
Although with some of those records for St. Finbarrs South , you might notice
sometimes there is a mention of St. Nicholas, and also the Jerusalem church.
There three churches were in the same area although 3 different denominations.
I have relations living near Inchigaggin and found that a rootschatter's relation
actually worked on their farm. Such a small world and an even smaller one
with the internet.
I have a couple of Haynes headstone photos from St. Columbas church in Douglas-
although not back as far as 1700's. There is an Abraham Haynes ( who I saw on
the St. Finbarrs baptisms also).
Will keep an eye out for those names you gave.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Hi Mary,
Small world indeed! That is great :D I never thought I'd get this close to Inchigaggin :)
Abraham Haynes might be a relative. There seem to have been several Haynes families baptising and marrying around the same time (early-mid 1800s) and I noted that Abraham and others are witnesses for each others' events in the registers. Abraham is a name that comes down through my own Haynes line so it's possible there is a connection, although I've yet to prove it.
I would love it if you could keep an eye out for any other Haynes stones you might come across - and if there are any photos of Inchigaggin knocking around, I would love to have one :)
Thanks so much for all your help and local knowledge!
Prue
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Inchigaggin is a small townland area around Model Farm Road,
There is a lane known as Cait Shea's lane with just a few houses.
I don't have any photos of the area but east to take a few,
Will let you know when I have a few to hand
Mary
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Cáit Shea's was where Rossa Avenue is now, Inchigaggin was known as Corcoran's Lane. The best way to view it is to log onto Google Earth & put Inchigaggin Lane, Carrigrohane into the search box. You can travel from one end of the lane to the other, although there are quite a few new houses built there now and the old cottages are mostly gone.
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Thanks agho, I will do just that :)
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Hi PruM,
I did go to Inchigagan lane but couldn't park as the traffice was
very busy. So I will have to walk the next time.
In the meantime I had a look at Rosemary Ffolliot's index ( newspaper
index from 1780's- 1830's) and found a few references to Haynes of
Inchigaggin. Some marriages and some deaths but no mention of
where buried. Just a few details here but if you want me to send you the long list send me a PM with your email and I can scan all the
entries to you.
Marriage- From The Constitution newspaper Wed 9th June 1824
On Saturday morning at Glanmire church by the Rev Dr Coughlan,
Michael Haynes Esq. of this City to Ellen dau of William Haynes of Inchigaggin Esq.
Marriage The Constitution 16 July 1825 at Kilflynin ( poss Kilflynn)
church by the Rev. Mr. Walsh, William Haynes Esq., of Inchigaggin near
this City to Mary eldest daughter of William Bleazby Esq of this Ciity.
Death - Cork Advertiser 3rd April 1813 On Wednesday morning at her
lodgings near Wandesford Bridge,Mrs Haynes wife of William Haynes Esq. of Carrigrohane.
Marriage Cork Mercantile Chronicle -M 28 Nov 1803 yesterday at
Carrigrohane church by the Rev Nicholas Dunscombe, Mr Garret Nugent of the Grand Parade, Hatter, to Miss Ellen Haynes, of Ballinveltig in the South Liberties of this City.
( This Ellen was a daughter of Abraham Haynes, her mother Mary wife of Abraham died 31 Dec 1823) Ballinveltig is quite near Inchigaggin as it
quite a large area and is located in several townlands eg Ballinveltig Carrigrohane, Ballinveltig Curraheen, Ballinveltig Bishopstown, so they
may well have been connected to the Haynes of Inchigaggin!!!
http://ballincollig.wordpress.com/churches/ According to Margaret Jordan's website there was a Catholic church at Clash ( which is in Carrigrohane) until 1808 nothing remains of it today.
There is also a very small cemetery at Kilnaglory near Ovens , another possiblity.
My feeling is that the Haynes were Church of Ireland and maybe married Catherine Daly a Catholic. Just a hunch because all those marriages seem to be in Church of Ireland churches.
Hope this is some help to you
Mary
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Hi Mary,
That is all fantastic info, thank you so much :) I will PM you with an email address for the longer list.
The parents of the John Haynes who married Margaret Daly were both Catholic but whether the rest of the family was I don't know...certainly anything seemed to go once they were in Australia. Some of them remained Catholic but others (my line!) did their own thing!
I do so appreciate you taking the time and effort to find all this out for me, and for attempting at least to get some pics of Inchigaggan Lane - I hope the traffic is kinder next time you try!
Best wishes
Prue
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Hi PrueM,
I know this thread is a few months old, but I may be able to help you out. I've had enough people help me out on Roots chat, so it's about time I gave back!
I live and work close to the areas that you speak of in your thread. If you identify a graveyard that you think your ancestors might be buried in, let me know where it is and the names of the headstones to look for and I'll see what I can do.
I could drop up to Curraghkippaune cemetary some day during my lunch hour if you like and maybe take some pictures of headstones.
Thanks
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Hi dhaskett :)
That is very kind of you, thank you!
I'm not sure who, if any, of my Haynes family are buried in that area. Potentially it would be an earlier generation than I have so far been able to trace. I have been in email correspondence with "celtic liberty" who posted on this topic, and one thing I wrote to her was:
Your question about Inchigaggin prompted me to go back and check some very old notes I have from a Haynes cousin, who had access to lots of old family documents and put together a "potted history" of the early days of the family in Australia and its origins in Cork. In my mind, over the years, the story became confused... the family did not definitely come from Inchigaggin. In the very early 1900s, there was some correspondence between "our lot" and some Hayneses in the USA and England about possible connections between us and the Inchigaggin Hayneses, but it looks like the issue was never resolved.
So, I thank you very sincerely for being so kind as to offer to photograph graves, but I can't actually pinpoint any for you to photograph ;D
However, there is still a possibility that the Cork Hayneses and the Inchigaggin Hayneses were related, so if you are every wandering the graveyards with your camera and happen across a Haynes headstone, a photograph of same would be very gratefully received :)
Thanks so much, once again, for your generous offer :D
Prue
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No problem, glad to be of help. My car is being serviced at the moment, so it will be next week at the earliest before I can take a look at any graveyards. I'll take a look first at Curraghkippaune cemetary to see what I can find. If I locate any Haynes headstones, I'll get back to you.