RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: Geoff Chew on Wednesday 24 November 04 20:46 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
My brick wall is Thomas CHEW (my 6x great-grandfather), who appears in Aldwincle in 1711, when he marries (at Polebrook by licence) Ann RAND; he starts a line of CHEWs in Thorpe Achurch and Wadenhoe, but there are no earlier CHEWs in that area. In 1711 he had been a widower; I presume his earlier marriage is that between Thomas CHEW of Bulwick and Katharine DEXTER of Bulwick, at St Sepulchre's, Northampton, in 1695. In the late 1600s but not earlier there are a Thomas, a John and a Lucy CHEW at Bulwick. John "CHOW" (thus in the register, but presumably "Chew") is buried at Bulwick, 1699; Thomas, born about 1664 (estimated, no idea where), has a son John at Aldwincle in 1711 and another son Thomas in 1713; he is a churchwarden at Thorpe Achurch from 1733; he dies and is buried at Thorpe Achurch with a lavish tombstone, 8 Jan 1736; his will, mentioning his sister Lucy (at Bulwick, married to the late Richard BRADSHAW -- I can't find the marriage but can find children at Bulwick), is proved 7 Feb 1736. But I have never managed to discover where the family came from, before Thorpe Achurch or Bulwick. Any ideas?
Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
My husband has a Chew ancestor from Thorpe Achurch. Lucy Chew, chr. 6 December 1807 in Thorpe Achurch, daughter of Joseph Chew and Lucy Knibb (married Polebrook 1806), was his g-g-g-grandmother. Apparently Joseph, a farmer, came from Wigsthorpe in the Parish of Lilford and mother Lucy was from Armston in Polebrook.
Do any of these individuals ring a bell at all with your own Chew ancestry? We have yet to go back any further than Joseph. Have you had any luck in discovering where your Chews came from before settling in Thorpe Achurch?
Regards,
Rachel (Brisgirl)
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Hi Rachel
Only seen your posting now. Yes, your Chews are related to mine: I didn't know that Lucy was married, and would be glad of further details. Her father Joseph CHEW (b. 1780, d. Polebrook, May 1836) was a son of another Joseph CHEW (b. 1741, d. Thorpe Achurch, 7 Sep 1804) and a Mary SMITH (b. about 1742, married Thorpe Achurch, 7 Nov 1762, d. Armston, 26 Apr 1825); the previous generation, parents of Joseph b. 1741, were John CHEW (b. 1711, d. Thorpe Achurch, 29 Apr 1784) and Elizabeth RAGSDALE (b. about 1711, married Thorpe Achurch, 28 Mar 1733, d. Thorpe Achurch, 1 Jan 1789; she was the daughter of a Richard RAGSDALE, d. 1737, and an Elizabeth, d. 1729). The previous generation again, parents of John CHEW b. 1711, were Thomas CHEW -- the brick wall I mentioned in my posting -- (b. about 1664?, died Thorpe Achurch 1736) and Ann RAND or RANDS (his second wife, married by licence at Polebrook, 13 Jan 1711, d. 1730). Another John CHEW or CHOW, d. Bulwick, 1699, may have been Thomas's father or brother.
My connection with you is quite remote :D as it's through a Thomas CHEW b. 1733 who was a brother of the Joseph CHEW b. 1741 who married Mary SMITH... Yours is the rich side of the family and mine the poor relations :o
If you like to exchange gedcom files, we should perhaps exchange email addresses.
Best wishes
Geoff
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PS: The Armston CHEWs are covered in a book by John Coales, "Twelve Generations: Gleanings from the Coales Family Archives" (Somerton, Somerset, 2002), a big pricey volume available I think only from the author. The Chews intermarried quite a bit with a few other families (e.g. Allens, Tebbutts, Coaleses) who are also covered there. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Thanks very much for your reply. I will reply at length by personal message.
Regards, Rachel
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My interest is Lucy KNIBB. I don't have her baptism but reckon she's the daughter of a John KNIBB and Lucy who had previously married a BELLAMY, she having married John 13 Nov 1785 as a widow.
I'd also appreciate Lucy CHEW's (nee KNIBB) burial record if anyone has it. I see that hsband Joseph died May 1836 so presumably in Polebrook parish register unless info from a Will.
Alan Jackson
Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study website and mailing list
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> My interest is Lucy KNIBB. I don't have her baptism but reckon she's the
> daughter of a John KNIBB and Lucy who had previously married a BELLAMY, > she having married John 13 Nov 1785 as a widow.
>
> I'd also appreciate Lucy CHEW's (nee KNIBB) burial record if anyone has it.
> I see that hsband Joseph died May 1836 so presumably in Polebrook parish
> register unless info from a Will.
Hi
Lucy KNIBB: baptized 18 Sep 1786, Polebrook, daughter as you say of a John KNIBB and a Lucy.
Married Joseph CHEW 6 Jan 1806
Died Armston, Polebrook 13 Nov 1826
Buried Polebrook 16 Nov 1826
Stamford Mercury, 17 Nov 1826: "DIED. At Armston, near Oundle, on Monday last, aged 43, Mrs Chew, wife of Mr Joseph Chew, farmer, leaving a family of 12 children to lament their irreparable loss."
If the newspaper announcement is correct, then Lucy Knibb must have been born a couple of years before her baptism, and that might be suggested also by her being apparently under age at her marriage.
Geoff
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Valuable info indeed and I've only joined rootschat today.
Food for thought though. I just wonder if she wasn't born a BELLAMY then and baptised a KNIBB after the 1785 marriage. Or if Mr BELLAMY died sometime previously then another scenario emerges!
Alan
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Hello again Alan
Glad to have been of help. I didn't mention that the BELLAMYs are one of the handful of families that were intermarrying with the CHEWs, and that a William BELLAMY of Polebrook married a Rebecca CHEW in 1797 at Thorpe Achurch -- the next village. Rebecca was Lucy KNIBB's sister-in-law (she was the sister of Joseph CHEW). I don't have my notes of the Polebrook registers here with me, nor John Coales's book "Twelve Generations", unfortunately -- both would have more details of BELLAMYs.
Geoff
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Well, all fits with the accepted scenario. If the records or book do cast more light on the issue of Lucy's birth, please advise idc.
Alan
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I'll certainly try to see whether William BELLAMY and Lucy KNIBB might have been brother and sister, though I'm pretty sure John Coales's book won't tell us that. Incidentally, there are no other KNIBB connections with my CHEW family that I know of.
Geoff
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Nope. I'm suggesting that Lucy first married a BELLAMY and then John KNIBB as she married as a widow. Or perhaps my info is faulty.
Alan
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I meant Lucy junior...
Geoff
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Yep, I got there but too late!
Alan
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Nothing relevant or helpful in John Coales's book. We'll see what the Polebrook registers have to offer. Geoff
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I've asked another of the Chew clan who has the Polebrook registers on fiche to check this out, and this is what she says:
William BELLAMY (d. 1778) married Lucy ROWELL; they had 4 known children, including another William BELLAMY d. 1773; the last was Adam BELLAMY, b. 1778.
Lucy BELLAMY nee ROWELL married John KNIBB, 17 Apr 1785.
They had 2 known children, including Lucy KNIBB [who later married Josrph CHEW], baptized 1786 as we know. Maybe Lucy junior was born before the marriage of John and Lucy senior, but my informant thinks the newspaper got the age of Lucy senior wrong:
Lucy CHEW nee KNIBB was buried 16 November 1826 [as we know] but aged 40, which ties in precisely with the date of baptism.
The William BELLAMY b. 1773 was probably the William BELLAMY who married Rebecca CHEW (b. 1775, sister of Joseph CHEW mentioned above), 24 April 1799.
That would make William BELLAMY and Lucy KNIBB half-brother and half-sister, not full brother and sister, and would also mean that Lucy was really born a KNIBB and not a BELLAMY.
Now my informant wants to know a bit more about John KNIBB! Can you oblige? :D
Geoff
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Thank you very much. Very helpful.
Please can we just clear up a couple of points. I had been given the date of the John KNIBB / Lucy BELLAMY nee ROWELL marriage as 13 Nov 1785. Is that definitely wrong? - seems strange that different specific dates quoted. Also is date of her marriage to William BELLAMY available and both their baptisms?
I have conjectured that John KNIBB was the one bp26 Apr 1758 at Polebrook as KNIBBS to Thomas and Alice BAILEY nee HUNT (she a widow at marriage), the first of 10 children born to the couple. If the same, this John was a farmer/yeoman of Armston who died 15 Jul 1825 unless that is the date that Adam KNIBB, his miller brother of Barnwell, was sworn in as his executor (as opposed to the date he swore that John actually died). Perhaps a burial record exists that would resolve. The Will was dated 29 March 1825 and Elizabeth BELLAMY, John's housekeeper was bequeathed the house and an annuity, his wife Lucy having presumably died beforehand.
He named his daughter Lucy CHEW in the Will so we can be sure that the testator is the one who married Lucy BELLAMY nee ROWELL. His son Thomas KNIBB b Armston bp25 Feb 1788 Polebrook must have died as Lucy was said to be his only child. She was to die the following year according to what we now know.
Perhaps best to contact me direct at jackari2@aol.com if more KNIBB info required.
Alan
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Hi Geoff/Alan
Looked at the original marriage entry.
Polebrook Parish Church
Pg 19 No 65 13th Nov 1785 by Lic
John Knibb of the Hamlet of Armston in this Parish Bachelor and
Lucy Bellamy of the same place Widow.
Both signed their names.
Witnesses: John Rowell and William Hanson
Cheers Sandy
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Thanx. Glad I queried.
Alan
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Thanks Sandy, glad to have that cleared up, and I will send Alan a copy of the image from the parish register (John KNIBB/Lucy BELLAMY, 13 Nov 1785).
Some further data and one or two further corrections:
Lucy KNIBB: (1) baptized 12 Sep 1786 NOT 18 Sep 1786.
(2) died 13 Nov 1826 and buried 13 Nov 1826 NOT 16 Nov 1826 (dates are from the headstone at Polebrook, but register says buried 13 Nov aged 40). Her age is also given on the headstone, but illegible when I looked at it years ago -- now given the further information it might be possible to make it out.
(3) married William BELLAMY 12 Oct 1772.
Thomas KNIBB: buried 5 March 1788, presumably less than a year old.
Rebecca BELLAMY wife of William BELLAMY died 12 Dec 1799.
Further Polebrook baptisms:
26/12/1745 Lucy daughter of John and Prudence ROWELL
25/4/1747 William son of Adam and Mary BELLAMY
25/4/1758 John son of Thomas and Alice KNIBBS
Further Polebrook burials:
2/2/1805 Rebecca BELLAMY wife of William BELLAMY
12/3/1814 Mrs Alice KNIBB, Armston, aged 68
19/6/1823 John KNIBB aged 67
Hope all this helps and that I haven't made further slips in transcribing
Geoff
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Hi Geoff
I hope you did not think I was correcting you as this was not the case.
By looking at the original copy I was noting what was written.
Sorry if it implied otherwise.
Sandy
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No Sandy, I'm just delighted that you are reading these posts and very grateful for the trouble you take. ;)
Geoff
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Glad about that Geoff
I was over at Polebrook a few weeks ago and only did the cemetery.
Have you seen the grave to the circus lady there.
Sandy
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Which is that? The reference escapes me :D
Geoff
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This one Geoff.
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Fantastic :D Who is it???
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I knew you would ask me that Geoff.
Took me ages last time to find the photograph. :)
It belongs to
Carolyn Austin (nee Roberts)
Oct 5th 1942-Sept 16th 1968.
Sandy
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Surely John KNIBB's burial must be Jun 1825 if I have the correct date of his Will as 29 Mar 1825. His age would then indeed be 67.
I had his baptism as 25th not 26th Apr 1758.
Alan
Thanks Sandy, glad to have that cleared up, and I will send Alan a copy of the image from the parish register (John KNIBB/Lucy BELLAMY, 13 Nov 1785).
Some further data and one or two further corrections:
Lucy KNIBB: (1) baptized 12 Sep 1786 NOT 18 Sep 1786.
(2) died 13 Nov 1826 and buried 13 Nov 1826 NOT 16 Nov 1826 (dates are from the headstone at Polebrook, but register says buried 13 Nov aged 40). Her age is also given on the headstone, but illegible when I looked at it years ago -- now given the further information it might be possible to make it out.
(3) married William BELLAMY 12 Oct 1772.
Thomas KNIBB: buried 5 March 1788, presumably less than a year old.
Rebecca BELLAMY wife of William BELLAMY died 12 Dec 1799.
Further Polebrook baptisms:
26/12/1745 Lucy daughter of John and Prudence ROWELL
25/4/1747 William son of Adam and Mary BELLAMY
25/4/1758 John son of Thomas and Alice KNIBBS
Further Polebrook burials:
2/2/1805 Rebecca BELLAMY wife of William BELLAMY
12/3/1814 Mrs Alice KNIBB, Armston, aged 68
19/6/1823 John KNIBB aged 67
Hope all this helps and that I haven't made further slips in transcribing
Geoff
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I'm doing this all at second hand -- I'll put those points (which seem entirely reasonable, I must say) to my informant.
Geoff
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Alan
Have now sent you further images from the Polebrook registers. If you're willing to let us know what you make of them in this forum, that would be appreciated!
Geoff