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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: MarkyP on Wednesday 28 February 07 18:12 GMT (UK)
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Just wondering about this, I have the name Wilson as a middle name in 4 generations, but can find no reference to it linking to my family whatsoever, other than a middle name. Is this common, I know first names were used generation after generation, I did hope that the middle name (if it appears to be surname like) might point to mothers maiden name, again is this correct?
Again I call upon the combined expertise of the board! :) Thank you.
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Yes. often a middle name like that does crop up further back as a maiden name. But sometimes it can be a way back - how many generations prior to last 'sighting' of it have you gone?
For example I have a James who married an Ann Chaise in my tree (late 1700's) . They called one of their many children 'Chase' He had several children but did not use the name, nor did his only son with his children (dont know about the daughters), BUT then in the next generation one of the 13 children, is called Henry Chase (born 1840, a g-g-grandson of Ann Chaise). Henry Chase's youngest brother calls one of his children Reginald Chase - we are now up to 1891.
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Often a surname as a middle name came from a female ancestor.
My middle name, and my dad's, is my grandmother's maiden name, my grandfather's was his great-grandmother's maiden name & other grandfather's 1st name was his mother's maiden name.
My husband's family has used the name Ross for 8 generations and is comes from an ancestress Elizabeth Ross.
Sometimes a name comes into family through marriage. A relative of my father's given names are John L. Clarke- called John L. for a childless uncle & the Clarke for uncle's wife's maiden name.
However, sometimes a surname can be for someone like a minister, doctor, local landowner.
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Or a godparent, who might also have been a relative and perhaps a wealthy single one at that! ;)
Nell
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The middle name Crackles appeared in one generation of a branch of my family. Confused me for ages as it made me think I had got the wrong parents for the mother. Turned out in the end to be the maiden name of the mother of an aunt of the children. There must have been some good reason why that name was used, but for the life of me I haven't managed to find an explanation. If you must have a middle name to remember a previous generation, it helps to have an interesting name. Smith or Jones just wouldn't cut the mustard.
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My cousin's son has a middle name, if you wanted to fin that as a famiy name, you'd have to go back to 1830.
Middle name in some cases can be a woman's maiden name, name of a stepfather, and I have Beaumaris in the family as a middle name, never found why
Bob
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Thanks guys, thought as much. I'll have to do a little more digging to come up with Wilson, no sign of it so far!
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MarkyP,
You are very fortunate that your ancestors HAD middle names, which will help you trace things back! An awful lot of mine didn't, and they have common names and are very elusive. Even if I can find people with the right names, it is almost impossible to tell which of them are my ancestors!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
MarieC
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First names were responsible for one of my best breakthroughs (though I had some help)
My ancestor Amphyllis Skinner had a Brother Bellingham.
I never trace her mother's name. When suggested that it may have been Freeman, sure enough there was a Bellingham Freeman.
Sure enough a couple of generations enough was Sir Edward Bellingham
Thanks to Steve Kelsey for pointing me in the right direction.
Seem to lots of descendants with first or middle name Bellingham
Bob
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Probably worth pointing out Hugh Wallis' site with an index of middle names taken from IGI http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm#PageTitle
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Hi All,
My GGrandfathers middle name was Atcherson, and according to his marriage certificate so was his fathers,this name came down to Grandfathers eldest son....I can't find where it came from!!!
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What I did was look at the middle name that went through my mother's family (BOND)
This was in the Cocks family.
As the time I did not have access to all the censuses.
I found a marriage in Manchester Cathedral of George Bowker Cock to Mary Bond.
I later found that Mary's name at death was given as Mary Bond Cocks (her maiden name as middle name). Confirmation came only when one of the censuses gave George Full name George Boker Cocks.
The 's' got added later.
To make matters worse, tracing the same familyt further back, many of the baptisms are entered as Cook not Cock. George's was George Bowker Cook at bpatism!
(And Bowker was his mother's maiden name)
There were family rumours of money held in chancery in the Bond family. Never found any truth in this
Bob
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Re your earlier post, Stonechat I don't know whether Beaumaris would be a likely honeymoon destination, but I have an elderly relative whose middle name is the place where her parents went on their honeymooon.
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Hmm it'd have to be in 1835. Though then lived in Denton nr Manchester,not sure hw widespread honeymoons weere, especially amond people who didn't have a lot of money, he was a warehuseman /overlooker at a cotton mill.
Her father was a hat manufacturer, but whether an employee or better I can't say
I have thought of this - even the Beckham theory (remember Brooklyn Beckham?).
There do seem to be a real shortage of people called Beamaris
However George Cock's son is Jame Beamaris Cocks, and a grandson is James Beaumaris KNowles.
I may find out one day
Bob
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My fathers middle name was Barlow, his grandfathers middle name was also Barlow - until I can find where great grandfather was born I do know if this is a mothers name or just a name that was picked at some time and has been reused.
(There are Barlows in Ireland where I believe my family originated)
Tim
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Tim- I, and about 12 others, have been researching Barlows in Ireland. In particular Richard Barlow (c1794-1881) & his wife Mary McDonald (c1814?-1892) who lived in Country Londonderry. Known children: Mary, Sarah, Rose, Anne, Jane, Agnes Louise, Elizabeth. Associated surnames: Reid, Mullan, O'Kane, O'Hara, McIlroy, Taylor, McDonald, Caldwell.
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I have the name Nellthorpe, Nealthorpe, Nellthorp as a second name in three generations of my Saich family. It is always spelt differently, the last generation was born in the 19th century, but I can find no reason for its use even though I have gone back many generations.
David
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My relatives didn't start using middle names until the later parts the 1800s. They used to use just a middle initial. Makes difficulty researching since they all had the same first name and same middle initial.
I have found that many if not most of family middle names were usually the name of a favorite brother or sister or a parents surname.
My Dad and I have the same middle name. Originally it was a surname on my grandmothers family and can be traced back to the 1500s. Has been spelled differently (adding or dropping a consonant) throughout the ages.
My brother was named after a favorite uncle. However, when the uncle fell out of favor my brother changed his middle name.
yn9man
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Oh how I wish all registrars would use the middle names, it would make our searches so much easier. especially with very common surnames ::) one of mine is Stanley but some of them had the middle name Thurston, have not traced where that come from yet.
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Patrish -
Would be very nice indeed but then where would us Rootschatters spend our free time? :)
Genealogy wouldn't be the hobby it is today if not for the thrill of the search.
yn9man
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Hmmmmmmmm good point that ;D but sometimes it so frustrating. (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1087.gif)
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Hmmmmmmmm good point that ;D but sometimes it so frustrating. (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1087.gif)
Just sometimes? ... You must be a diplomat ;) ;)
yn9man
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going back century's was the maiden names of stewart and Cameron so my mum and 2 sisters have Cameron as a middle names while 2 older brothers have stewart as a middle name. i now have 2 nephews with the first name of cameron. but no stewarts yet. me however have my great gran mothers name for a middle name. my eldest daughter has the same name as me and both her grans names as middle names and my eldest son has both his gran fathers names as middle names.
Bitz
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My great great grandfather was Charles Winchester Green Culling until his natural aunt and her husband adopted him, when he became Charles Winchester Giesen. We thought the Winchester bit was terribly posh, Victorian flamboyance, until I finally tracked down his birth and discovered that he was born in Winchester Street. It is fairly certain that Green was his natural father's surname, and his mother was Fanny Layton Culling. He had two older brothers, Josiah Green Culling and James Green Culling, and a younger sister, Ada Anne Green Culling. Little Ada was brought up by Ann Green, the widowed mother of Charles' adoptive mother, Mrs Martha Giesen, and Martha had a twin brother Walter J Green. However, I believe it was Martha's and Walter's older brother Josiah Green who was the father of Charles, Ada and their two older brothers. I think he didn't marry Fanny, in spite of having several children with her, because she was a servant and socially unacceptable as a spouse.
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stonechat, i am new to rootschat and trying to send you a note but it won't let me, anyway, i am curious about your mention of bonds and chancery...i also have a similar story...though i am not sure if it is in my bond or irving family...my bonds were from manchester, early 1800's, but said to have welsh roots, and related to the bonds of bond street london. anyway there was said to be a great deal of money caught up in chancery that uncles had fought to their wit's end over. like i said not sure if this is the irving or bond side,...but i'll be keeping a look if our bonds connect...
Hmm it'd have to be in 1835. Though then lived in Denton nr Manchester,not sure hw widespread honeymoons weere, especially amond people who didn't have a lot of money, he was a warehuseman /overlooker at a cotton mill.
Her father was a hat manufacturer, but whether an employee or better I can't say
I have thought of this - even the Beckham theory (remember Brooklyn Beckham?).
There do seem to be a real shortage of people called Beamaris
However George Cock's son is Jame Beamaris Cocks, and a grandson is James Beaumaris KNowles.
I may find out one day
Bob
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In my main Jones family my generation is the first one since before 1800 not to have the middle name Simon.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Just taking advantage of the topic to again float the puzzle of my greatuncle's middle name:
Espar or Esper.
It means nothing to us at all. No other use of the name,not a place.
Noone to ask as that generation are all long gone.
Any ideas?
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My great-grandfather named several of his children for ancestors, showing some pretty thorough genealogical research.
William Vazie Langdale Simons - named for his grandmother Mary Rebecca Langdale and his great-grandmother Hannah Vazie;
Emma Scobell Simons - named for her 7-great grandmother Mary Scobell;
Alice Maud Moncure Simons - named for her great-grandmother Isabella Moncure;
Katherine Ellen Evelyn Simons - named for her great-grandmother Ann Evelyn;
Blanche Edith Selwyn Simons - for a long line of cousins;
Frederic Dyke Sydney Simons - for his aunt's husband Thomas Jones Dyke - that marriage was childless;
And then Robert John Richard Cobden Simons, born on the day Richard Cobden died and named for him in admiration of his politics.
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Just taking advantage of the topic to again float the puzzle of my greatuncle's middle name:
Espar or Esper.
It means nothing to us at all. No other use of the name,not a place.
Noone to ask as that generation are all long gone.
Any ideas?
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Keep researching - eventually you may find a link. Or you may not. Maybe they just liked he word for some reason.
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Just taking advantage of the topic to again float the puzzle of my greatuncle's middle name:
Espar or Esper.
It means nothing to us at all. No other use of the name,not a place.
Noone to ask as that generation are all long gone.
Any ideas?
Esper is apparently German?
North German and Danish: variant of Jesper, Low German and Danish form of Kaspar.
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I'm almost certain that my illigitimate g.grandfathers second christian name "Evan" is the surname
of his father.His mother had 4 children but never wed, her 2nd child , a daughter was named "Eva"
a third daughter,the last to marry, must have been told by then, as she wed using the surname
Evans.
I've seen a likely canditate living close by in census, but.....
Jackie
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Or a godparent, who might also have been a relative and perhaps a wealthy single one at that! ;)
Nell
Yes , my embarrassing middle name when I was growing up was Emily. Its quite fashionable now.Was taken from an elderly spinster aunt with money. Sandra
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Thanks Kgarrad for the suggestion of a German- type link.
I'll look into it. No non-brit connections in the family but one can't rule out the parents having encountered someone from abroad visiting the area ( West Yorks- I know there were many foreigners in the area in connection with the textile industry at the time, late 1800's/early 1900's.)
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Did not make my searching easier until I realised that all the men were known by there midlle names! my Uncle Morris was Brian Morris, his son (my cousin) was known as Brian, but his name was Morris Brian. Hard for a green researcher!!
In one case I could not find my Uncle Arnold his first name was John!!! ??? ???
cheers
John (not saying my middle name)
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On the plus side, I've found that ancestors with middle names are much easier to trace.
Eg: quite few Sarah Armitages in my village in the mid1800's but only one Sarah A(nne) Armitage.
Also, my husband's family clung determinedly to Eliza Mary + Herbert Edward as names throughout several generations.
My father however avoided giving us middle names - too "fancy"- "how many names do you need, lass?"
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I've been looking into my son in law's family for him. His great grandmother's siblings all had middle names. I had quite a lot of trouble finding her so asked what her brothers and sisters were called also parents.
It turned out both her parents used their middle names and every sibling used an abbreviated name ie Bert for Albert. I'd already looked at that record and dismissed it because the parents names weren't correct.
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My 4x great grandmother, Harriet Buckingham, was originally married to a Lindsey Smith. She had a son with him, named Lindzey Smith. Why the spelling is different I don't know. Anyway, Lindsey Smith died and Harriet married Robert Feaviour, my 4x great grandfather.
They had one son, my 3x great grandfather Robert Linsey Feaviour. Once again, the name is spelled differently. He in turn had a son, named Robert Lindzey Feaviour. And then HE had a son named Lindsay Robert Feaviour! It seems they were determined to spell the name differently each time they used it. Just bizarre.
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I've recently come across a family where the females were given their own maiden name as a middle name -- so (not the real names!) Jane Smith Jones, née Smith, was the mother of Jane Jones Jones, Ann Jones Jones, etc. Seems they were determined that the girls would keep their birth surname by hook or by crook!!