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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Dinkydidy on Friday 23 February 07 01:03 GMT (UK)
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I would be grateful if some kind person could check for the following:
William MARNER (chr 1823, Boxgrove)
Elizabeth " (chr 1800, " )
- married1821, Boxgrove.
children possibly William (chr 1823), George (1824), Eliza (1825), Frances (1826) and Elizabeth (1828). All chr. at Boxgrove except Eliza - Little Berkhampstead.
Most of the above info is from the IGI. I am trying to establish a possible death date for Elizabeth the mother and a remarriage for William by 1853 to Harriet DOWNER.
Thanks,
Didy
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Hi Didy
I think this 1851 is going to throw a spanner in the works!
William Marner 28 Boxgrove Head Tailor
Lucy Marner 26 # Wife
Frances Marner 1 mth Littlehampton Dau
Harriet Saunders 14 Birdham Servant
HO107/ 1651 Folio 504 Page 36 Worthing
Then theres this one
William Marner 53 Siddesham Head Bricklayer
Elizabeth marner 50 Boxgrove Wife
Elizabeth marner 22 # Dau Dress maker
George Marner 3 Littlehampton GrandSon
Maria Bicknell 19 Bognor Visitor
Mary T Millett 10 Peuranie #
HO107/1652 Folio 380 Page 14 Westhampnett
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Marriage
William Marner m Lucy Smith 1847 July qtr Westhampnett
Vol 7 Page 705
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1841
William Marner 40 Y bricklayer
Elizabeth Marner 40 Y
William Marner 15 Y Tailors Apprentice
Elizabeth Marner 10 Y
HO107/1100/3 Folio 20 Page 14 Westhampnett Boxgrove
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That's great, thanks Annie. And you're probably right about the spanner in the works. ;D If his wife Elizabeth was still alive in 1851.......(I can see a death for an Elizabeth Marner at Lewes in Dec qtr 1852, on FreeBDM, but would that be the right area, and would it give a husband's name?)
William snr, aged in his 50s, (the other William is his son) and his "wife" Harriet, about 17, arrived in South Australia with a newborn baby daughter in 1853. After William's death in 1863, Harriet married my widowed g-g-grandfather in 1872, giving her father's name as John DOWNER.
I had some unkind thoughts when I saw that William jnr had a servant called Harriet about the right age - I hope our Harriet was telling the truth about her father's name! :-\ And I can't find a marriage for William and Harriet. :(
Thanks again,
Didy
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p.s. Could you or some other kind soul please check to see if Elizabeth Marner is still there on the 1861 census? Then we will know whether it's worthwhile continuing to look for a marriage for William and Harriet.
Thanks,
Didy
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1841
Charles Willis/Welles 45 Y ag Lab
Mary Willis 35 Y
Jane Willis 10 Y
James Willis 6 Y
John Wills 1mth Y
Susan Suit 15 Y
Ann Surry 13 Y
Harriett Downer 5 Y
John Downer 1 Y
Sarah fewkes 21 Y FS
Rectory East Wittering
HO107/1103/6 Folio 7 Page 8 Westhampnett Manhood
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Didy
The William and Elizabeth that Annie found would appear to both be still around in 1861.
1861
Beach Terrace, Littlehampton
William Marner, head mar 63, Builder. born Sussex, Siddlesham
Elizabeth Marner, wife mar 60, born Sussex, Boxgrove
Elizabeth Marner, dau unm 32, born Sussex, Boxgrove
All appear to be gone by 1871.
Ian C
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Oh dear! ??? It looks like I've been chasing the wrong William Marner, but at least you've confirmed that for me.
The information I have is definitely a bit rubbery, with Harriet's death cert. stating that she was born in Plymouth. As far as I can see, there are NO Downers in Devon and the Marners are scarce, too.
Thanks again for all your effort. Back to the head-scratching for me. ???
Didy
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There is some info about Harriet on the IGI under Devon, but it is submitted. Has mention of William Marner, plus second hubby in Australia, so has more than likely come from someone in Australia.
Ian C
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I am descended from Harriet through her second husband, Stephen Stacey. I have transcribed details of her death certificate and second marriage cert. On the marr. cert. she says her father's name is John DOWNER. The death cert. says she was born in Plymouth, but I think the informant must have got the ports mixed up. I would think Portsmouth is more likely, as there are many Downers around there, but none that I could find in Devon.
Harriet was said to be 84 when she died in 1915 (birth c. 1831), and to have married for the first time at 20 (c. 1851). Her first child, Harriet MARNER, was born in July 1853, supposedly on the voyage to Australia, and doesn't seem to be registered. Unfortunately, the death certs contained very little info in 1863, when William MARNER died, supposedly at the age of 60 (birth c. 1803).
I have not been able to find corresponding marriage details for them on FreeBMD.
Didy
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Didy
Which port in Australia did they arrive at. The birth should have been registered at that port upon arrival, by the ships captain. At least that is what is supposed to happen. It did with one of mine into Melbourne in 1862. Was recorded in the ships papers as well.
Ian C
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Ian
The Marners arrived in Adelaide - at least that is what I have been led to believe through secondhand info. However, they are not listed on any of the S.A. arrivals, which do have some gaps.
Their first child, also Harriet, is not registered in S.A., nor are their next two, born in 1855 and 1857. I was given birth-dates for these children, presumably from Marner family records, but will have to try and contact the family to see if they have a ship's name etc. (I know the person who passed on the info originally has since died.)
The most likely Harriet Downer I can find is one christened in East Wittering in Sep 1836. She is the only one I could see on the IGI with a father named John, and is most likely the one shown with her brother John at the rectory in AnnieCJ's reply. I wonder what became of her parents? Are they elsewhere in 1841? And is the family still there in 1851 and 1861?
Her age fits well, as my Harriet had 10 children between 1853 and 1880, which would have made her 44 when the last one was born. An earlier birthdate would be stretching it a bit far, I think.
Thank you for your interest.
Didy
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harriett downer bapt 29th may 1836 east wittering.parents john marner and mary
siblings include-
marriane bapt 7th sept 1828
john bapt 29th march 1840
wonder what relation the willis's were ?
regards
alli
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Hi, Alli. I don't know about the Willis family. However, I notice that there are a couple of other apparently unrelated girls there also. I wonder if something had happened to the parents and that the Willises were operating some sort of orphanage at the Rectory?
Didy.
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Hi All, sorry to jump on this thread but i think it may be relevent to me too :-)
I have just found Harriet Downer in my tree and her siblings.
Mary Downer (b.1829)
Fanny Downer (b. 1831)
Charlotte Downer (b. 1833)
Harriet Downer (b.1836)
John Downer (b. 1840)
Emily Downer (b. 1845)
I found the parents John Downer (b.1811) and Mary Pink (b.1811) but this is causing confusion for me...
1871 Census shows Mary Pink (age 96) and Mary Downer (age 63) - Class: RG10; Piece: 1111; Folio: 37; Page: 10 for those that want to check this. Is it possible a mistake was made or i have looked up the wrong thing?
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Hi Starteck
I would be thrilled if you could shed any further light on the Downer family. :)
I have a Harriet Downer supposedly married to a William Marner arriving in South Australia in 1853 but have been unable to locate the relevant marriage.
My Harriet remarried in S.A. in 1872, giving her father's name as John Downer, which fits the Harriet born in East Wittering (refer previous posts).
I don't see a problem with the Mary Pink (age 96) and Mary Downer (age 63) on the 1871 census as they are mother and daughter - Downer being the second Mary's married name. John died in 1864 leaving her a widow and presumably nursing her mother, who is probably the Mary Pink who died at 97 in 1872.
I am a bit confused about John Downer and Mary Pink being born in 1811, as I thought the relevant year was 1807. ???
Regards,
Didy
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Hi
Emily Downer is in my family she married a George Smith these are my Great Great Grandparents.... George and Emily's son Charles married Rosina Green, their daughter Winifred Olive Smith had a child out of wedlock my father Anthony...
I have Emily's father as John Downer married to Mary Pink... I have Jonh's father as Thomas married to a Mary no maiden name as yet....
As for Mary Pink, her parents James Pink and Mary Ransom...
If you want to contact me then I have my tree under Tribal pages and GenesReunited....
Or you can contact me direct via email.... It's upto you....
Keren
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Hi
Emily Downer 1845 that you have placed on this link is my Great Great Grandmother... She married George Smith and had several children 1 being Charles Smith who married a Rosina Green, again with several children who I knew very well as these are my Great Aunts and Uncles unfortunately all deceased now.... However their children and Grandchildren are still alive....
If I can be of any assistance on this I'm happy to help....
Keren Smith Great Great Grandchild of Emily and George Smith.... And Grandchild of Winifred Olive Smith daughter of Charles and Rosina Smith's, Emily and George's son....
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Hi Keren
Thanks for your replies.
Sorry about the slow response. I have been busy chipping away at another brick wall and it took me a while to re-focus on this one. I got so disheartened with my unsuccessful search for the right William Marner and a possible marriage to Harriet Downer, that in the end I put it all to one side and went after another line.
I have picked up the same sets of parents as you, mainly from the IGI and some help from kind Rootschatters. Have you looked at the related Downer thread on here? John's parents appear to be Thomas Downer and Mary Longhurst, who married at Chichester 25 June 1792.
I would be grateful for any marriage details of John and Mary's children if you have them. The only one I am sure of, but without a certificate to confirm it, is Charlotte's marriage to Job Berrett or Barrett in 1857. The 1881 census shows Mary Downer, 73, housekeeping for her son-in-law Job Barrett, a widower, and his children. FreeBMD has a death of a Charlotte Berrett, 40, in the Dec 1873 qtr.
Do you have any knowledge of Harriet's life, such as marriage details or possible stories of her emigrating? I am basing all my hopes on Harriet giving the correct name for her father as John when she married for the second time in South Australia. Other information relating to her age and birthplace, which was given on her death certificate, appears to be very suspect.
Regards,
Didy
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Hi Didy
I have my tree on GenesReunited.co.uk where I have been in contact with so many people giving me access to their tree and I have obtained so much information with regards to various branches of my tree....
I've just checked my website which I have placed my tree for access to family members... I have John Downer and Mary Pink as Emily and Harriets parents and John's parents as Thomas and Mary Downer. As for the Barrett/Berrett connection I also have that information on my tree... As Charlotte Downer was as you know their sister.... Funny thing about that side Job, Charlottes husband married a Fanny Sharpe who was previously married to Edward Green, their daughter Rosina Green married my Great Grandfather... So talk about keeping it in the family.... I have loads of contacts with regards to this side of the tree, re: Barrett/Berretts, the Smiths, Greens and Downers.... MAybe betweeen us all we can help sort this out....
I like you have gone off on other sides of the various of branches we have to further the tree upwards, whatever IK can do to assist I'll try my best....
I live in New Zealand so like you I have to search and rely on the internet and the findings....
In GenesReunited I have 5 contacts with regards to Harriet Downer. Just checked and at least 7 for Job, and Fanny....
So I've not contacted at least 2 for Job and Fanny as I've lapsed on this side but will continue that side of things...
I'm happy to be in direct contact if you want to try and sort this out.... Unfortunately I only have Harriets details as a sibling of Emily and Charlotte.... I have her born around 1836 in East Wittering. As East and West Wittering, Earnley and Bridham are villages that merge together due to them being so close together.... Charles and Rosina my Great Grandparents and their children lived in and around these areas, their grandchildren and great grandchildren still live around these areas....
My Father and a few of his cousins still nearby.... I think Charles and Rosina are buried in West Wittering from memory as my Gran Winifred is buried with them....
I could try and ask someone in the family if they're next down near Grans grave to see if Thomas and Mary are buried there and if any other Downers, Smith, Barretts etc are at the same cemetary, or if not find out the cemetary name and do the research myself .... Let me know and I'll try to do my best....
Regards
Keren