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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Siouxzie on Tuesday 23 November 04 10:41 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know, how I can find out whether my gg grandfather William belonged to this regiment. I have a smashing photo of him in full uniform, big white bearskin rug and all.
Where would barracks be based ? He was born in Hornsey, Middlesex and after eloping lived in Fulham. The 1901 Census has him living on own means, which I believe was probably army pension.
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This link may help with regards to seeing any similarities with the photographs:
http://www.members.dca.net/fbl/indexrha.html
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Thanks Jen,
Some lovely old pics on that sight. :)
Suzanne
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I've recently found out that my great grandfather was in the Royal Horse Artillery. Some kind person found him on the 1891 Census in Woolwich Barracks. I made a trip up to Kew and quite easily found his service records.
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I have recently been told that the photographs I have in a photograph album of men in uniform are in fact from the Royal Horse Artillery. The people involved would have been born in the 1840's in the Southwark area.
Can you please tell me where the Royal Horse Artillery fought in the late 1800s? I am trying to piece together who these pictures are of in my family and what they did.
I have a vague idea of their names, are the records indexed by surname for the Royal Horse Artillery in Kew?
Many thanks Caron
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Hi Caron
They do have some name indexes - it would depend on the date. See their leaflet for discharge papers:
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=14
Some early ones also appear in their online index so it might be worthwhile searching "procat" on surname and WO97 (class) if it is personal soldiers' records that you are after.
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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thanks for your reply
Caron
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I think the RHA has been at St John's Wood, London, for many years. I've been there. The horse stalls have the names of the horses that were at Waterloo.
Roger
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thanks Roger. I wonder if they were there in the late 1800s. As My ancestors were born about mid 1800s, I image the time I am looking at is 1870 -1890. I am ignorant of where they fought. It would be interesting to know this.
Regards
Caron
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Caron
Read all about this famous regiment at:
http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/art-eng-sig/RHA.htm#titles
It'll take you about a week!
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Thanks very much for telling me about the site. Obviously some of the information is still under construction but it looks very interesting. I think my military photos are definitely Royal Horse Artillery but the photos show them wearing stripes on their arms and badges and medals. The photos were taken in Woolwich or South Church Essex or Colchester Essex, so perhaps this is where they were stationed, or they lived. Unfortunately the photos do not have names on them so I can only assume who they are.!
Perhaps somebody reading this post knows about Military uniforms and can help me identify their status within this Artillery.
Thanks
Caron
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Caron
if it is possible to upload the photo to this site, I'm sure the ranks could be identified if they were clear enough.
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Definately!
It really would help if we could see the photographs,it sounds like you might have some interesting research to do! :)
I'm sure that if you can upload the images it would be possible to identify the Regiment and ranks.
Regards,Mick ;)
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Here is the Royal Horse Artillery Photographs. If you can identify the actual uniform I would be grateful.
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oops. Try again.
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Here is the 2nd set of photos for identification
Caron
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3rd one
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The blazon on the lower arm and the number of buttons indicate that this is the uniform of the Royal Horse Artillery. The Woolwich on the second photo reinforces that opinion. This is the dress uniform as would be expected for a photo. They are both of the same man. I would guess that they were taken about 5 years apart in about 1875 or so. A real specialist could tell you more. The rank is that of a Lance-Corporal. 8) That applied to the two earlier photos. 3 more photos were posted whilst I was composing that - I am a bit slow. One is of the man in the dress uniform but now a Corporal with 4 long service stripes and what looks like the long-service medal. The next is of the same man, still later, in the undress uniform but now bearing the rank of Colour-Sergeant but I suspect they called it Battery Quartermaster - Sergeant BQMS. This might be about 1895-1900.
The one with the pillbox is probably taken after recruit training at Woolwich.
I hope any of this helps 8)
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Hi,
I started this topic and did unsuccessfully try to send my picture of my great grandad for regiment identification to a link I found here. No joy. Would any of the clever people watching this topic be able to tell me from this photo if regiment is R H A or any other information.
Regards
Suzanne
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Siouxzie. What a great picture. I hope somebody can identify the uniform for you. If you get an identification for the uniform, I have found a web site today that tells you what the military ranking meant. http://www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/Category:Military_ranks. Hope this helps other people too.
Thank you Hackstaple for your great reply in response to my photos. ;D
I am delighted to know what rank they held. As I mention above I found the above web site which I used to try to help me work out what a Lance Corporal and a colour sergeant did. I understand the Lance Corporal explanation, but am a bit confused by colour sergeant - was in charge of supplies? ???
I cant find information on a Battery Quartermaster Sergeant BQMS, can you explain what that position entailed? Would you have any knowledge of where they might have fought in the late 1800s? ???
I inherited a photo album full of small carte blanche pictures from my gt grandfather Frederick Challis and only three pictures are named. The rest must obviously be family, I now have to work out by date which ones they might be. The military photos were in this album. I have to work out who everybody might be.!
I have seven men in my tree of the right age, all brothers,who I have looked at to be the men in the photos.
One of the brothers who was my gt gt grandfather called Frederick Challis 1841 - 1919. He was a cook on the old sailing ships and travelled the world with his wife as a stewardess (unheard of in the late 1800s!)
He had a scripture book with some birthdays and death dates and two of his brothers are mentioned as follows:
Thomas Jabez Challis B 1840 Bermondsey. Died 8 March 1879 off St Helena aged 39. George Treat of Boston.
William Henry Challis B 1847 Bermondsey. Died 10 March 1878. Rio De Janiero aged 31.
I assumed that as Frederick was on sailing ships, therefore these two entries meant that they also did the same. Perhaps these are deaths of a military nature!
These are the only brothers who would be a possible match.
Two of the other brothers I have identified as being a clerks in the censuses, living with their own families so that rules them out,
one brother I cannot find any mention of. and one I found in the 1871 census on a firefighting vessel in Tynemouth described as a fireman. He died when he was 32 in Liverpool.
The problem is that the photos show people older than the age of the boys that I have deaths for - 39,32 and 31 years. Should I be looking for the generation above them? Their father was an accountant and I have followed his life through the censuses, so its not him. The generation below Frederick Challis and his brothers would have been too young.
I am wondering whether it might be one of Joshuas brothers, they were born about 1819 -1831. What do you think?
What a puzzle I am having to unravel. Any help is appreciated.
Regards
Caron
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It is necessary to understand how batteries of the RHS were used - in support of infantry units in battle, in siege. As such the RHA was involved in almost every military action. For example about 17 batteries of the RHA were employed in the Boer War. Only a devoted study could identify which batteries your ancestor served in, when and where. That would be an all-consuming hobby. If you employ a professional researcher at Kew he may find his service records for you. Of course, you could always go there several times yourself if it is within range. 8)
I am sure there are many sites which detail British Army Ranks but non-commisssioned personnel are pretty simple. One stripe - Lance-Corporal. Two stripes Corporal. 3 stripes a Sergeant. 3 stripes and a crown - a Staff-Sergeant. Crown and laurel on sleeve - Warrant Officer Class II. After that is only the Regimental Sergeant-major - one per 1000 or so men.
The complication for the uninitiated is that different regiments and corps have somewhat different words such as Lance-Bombardier. Find a site that deals with all of these if you really need to know. :)
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thanks for the explanation. I think that my first problem is working out the names of the men so that I can check out their battalions.
I am going to look at the generation above the brothers I have a note of to see if they were the right age
Many thanks for your help
Caron
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Anyone needing historical information about the British army should try the Britregiments discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/britregiments/
They are not really into genealogy but will certainly help you on your way with uniform identification and other military matters. The group is moderated, very helpful and extremely knowledgeable.
Highly recommended.
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thank you for the advice.
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I previously posted some photographs of men in military uniform that I inherited in a family album. I had been unable to identify who these men were as there were no names on them.
I have recently found that a military man married into my famiily and I believe that one of the pictures may be him.
Would anyone be able to tell me whether the information I have on this person matches any of the uniforms.
The person I believe may be in the photo was William Munday born in Dartford about 1835. In the 1861 census he was a bombadier aged 26 in Fordington Dorset. He married in 1874 in Woolwich Kent and says he is a Bombadier. In 1881 he is 46 and living in Camarthan Wales and he is a sgt in Royal Artillery.
It appears from the above that he was in the Royal Artilllery for over 20 years.
Perhaps someone may be able to confirm whether this information matches with any of the photos I previously posted. Thank you
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Hi Caron
The photographs do match what you have. The ones when he has the single chevron high on the arm are when he was a Bombardier. The lower chevrons are Good Conduct 'badges'. Sergeants did not have these as the 1d a pay extra per badge was incorporated into their daily rate.
The two photographs with Reply 14 are of him:
= Bombardier with single GC badge
= Bombardier with two GC badges
With reply 15:
= Corporal with 4 GC badges. The medal is probably the Long Service Good Conduct medal rather than a campaign medal.
= some kind of senior Sergeant
The qualification for GC badges changed. When he enlisted it was 2 years for one and then seven years for the second. In 1876 it changed to 2, 5, 12, 16 years. Service before the age of 18 did not count. Four badges before 1876 took 17 years
If you cannot find his record, could it be that he died while serving? They would have destroyed his records 20 years after his death if that happened. Then the best way to confirm his details would be to search for his LSGC medal issued about 1875.
Ken
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Thank you Ken for your reply. It certainly looks like this may be William Munday, Do you think that both sets of photos are the same man?
I do feel that the men in both pictures look different. Perhaps I have another person as well?
I believe that William Munday died in 1898 in Dartford Kent where he was born. I have him in 1891 census aged 56 working as a town crier and bill distributor.
I havent looked for any war records yet. It looks like I may now have finally solved who the picture is of, but have to convince myself it is the same man in the pictures!
Thanks for your help Ken
caron
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Hi Caron
I suggest you cut and paste the five heads onto one image and post it on the photography section. A lot of visitors to that section have keen eyes.
Ken
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The FirePower museum in Woolich London is dedicated to the history of Artillery.
www.firepower.org.uk
They hold a vast archive of records,pictures,photos and much much more on all to do with the Artillery. There are a dedicated team there who are more than willing to help with enquires of Batterys/Brigades units etc and give there expert subject matter opinions.
Give them a phone and if you are wanting to see what it was like to be in the RHA during the period you are researching it is well worth a visit as you can get a feel of life in the Artillery as well as looking up records and tracing family members whilst there.
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Thank you very much for this information. I will try to go there one day to see if I can find out some more about the photographs I have.
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I inherited a family photo album and found several photos of men in military uniform that have been identified as Royal Horse Artillery uniforms. I have been trying to identify who these persons may be as there were no names on them.
I think I have identified somebody who may be one of the men in the photos in military uniform - William Munday born 1835 Dartford Kent.
In 1861 census he was a bombadier at Fordington Barracks in Dorset aged 26. In 1881 I found him living in Camarthan Wales he is a Sgt in Royal Artillery Militia aged 46. On his marriage certificate in 1874 he says he is a bombadier Royal Artillery Living at Woolwich Barracks. In 1891 he is a town crier - so has retired from the RHA.
Ken mentioned that I could look for details of his Good Conduct Medal where would I look for that ? I have several photographs in this posting that could be him I need to identify the likely person against the information I now have from this census information.
Any suggestions for finding out more about his military records?
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Caron
I have just joined rootschat because browsing Royal Horse Artillery uniforms recently, in two of the old photographs you posted sometime previously, the soldier in them looks very much like my Gt Grandfather. I have compared them with other photographs I have of him and are quite certain.
From your own family history research do you have names for the five soldiers yet? P U
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I believe one of the soldiers to be William Munday who was married to my gt gt grandmother Susan Fox nee Mayhew. he was born in Dartford.
There might be a possibility that his brother John Munday is also one of the soldiers in the pictures. I dont have any names on the photographs but by eliminating all the males in my tree, William Munday is the only soldier I have found.
Please let me know if we have the same ancestor. Regards
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My Gt Grandfather was George JUDGE b 1853. He married Mary Ann GOULD from Southwark in 1885.
I am thinking that George was in The Royal Horse Artillery during the 1870s because although I cannot yet confirm this by records, I do have a photo of him in a uniform similar to the photos you
posted. I would be very interested to know if you think as I do that your man and my man are the same person.
I am going to attach my photo of George with this reply. It has occurred to me that the the connection of these photos may come through the GOULD family. Regards
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Thanks for attaching the photo. He does look similar to my man but then there would be a link with the same surname. I am sure a Roots Chatter could give you some advice on the uniform. I think the military records for my William Munday were found on Find my past website. I was given advice on the uniform by Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum. He was able to tell me about the stripes and medals and the information tied in with the military records.
I hope you find out more about him. Regards
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Hi Caron
This is a very interesting and intriguing puzzle. I can see that we agree to differ about these photographs.
Can I make a suggestion? I have read all through the messages and replies concerning
The Royal Horse Artillery and your inquiries about about your un-named photographs. As I have a second photograph of my George JUDGE in the 1880s, why don't we as Km1971 suggested previously (reply27) cut and paste the faces of your two photographs (that I think are George JUDGE) and my two that I know are George JUDGE and send them onto the Photographic Section. The answer might just turn out to be an interesting and exciting family history challenge to us both!
Regards Eric
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If you wish to do this please do so, we can see what other people think.
Regards Caron
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Caron
Thank you so much for agreeing to do this, I really do appreciate it.
As I am a new boy I am not too sure what to do next, so do you think it might be best if I posted my two cut and pasted head and shoulders photos here, for you then to add yours, and then for you to send on to the photographic section,together with our question "are these the same man?"
Do you think that's OK, or do you wish to do it any other way?
Best wishes
Eric
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Eric, I am sure that the pictures will be looked at in either section. your pictures and mine are on this thread of the Royal Horse, so people can already see them separately, so perhaps it will be best to put them on the photography section. Let me know when yours are posted and I will put mine under yours if I can.
Regards Caron
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Hi Caron
I have just posted my two photographs on the Photograph Restoration and Dating section under the
TOPIC "compare photos to see if its the same man" I hope I have done it correctly. I have named
my photos, old image1 & old image2.
Regards P U