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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Brdtrd on Monday 12 February 07 23:22 GMT (UK)
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Could someone find a record of birth for my grandfather please? He was the son of Edith and Joseph Bird and appeared on the 1901 Census but disappeared from the 1911 Census. Very strange. He ended up in Canada sans famille.
He was born in April 1893 and had numerous brothers and sisters, Joseph Godfrey, Harold Theodore, Edith Mabel, Amy Dorothy and Eileen.
The family went to St. Mathias and/or Holy Trinity Rathmines. Is there any way to search online?
Also, is there a way to check out old Dublin phone directories?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. The Canadian arm of the Bird family would love to know their history. I cannot believe I do not have a Dublin Bird counterpart by now.
Thanks for your time!
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It's been a while since your query - but thought I'd let you know about a possible match (with a slightly different first name) on the Civil Index :
Name: Allen Lindey Bird
Registration district: Dublin South
Record type: Birth
quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1894
Volume: 2 / Page: 598
If that looks promising you can order a cert from the GRO (http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm) with those detail.
the Irish Civil Index is available to search at : familysearch index (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable)
Shane
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Thanks so much for this Shane! I believe this is my grandfather - I saw how the records on some folk were barely legible on the originals. Now that I have found him, I can order his birth records. Did the Civil Index just recently come on- line? Awesome tool! I found all the rest of Grandfather's family on the Index. Thanks!
Do you know how far into the 1900's they allow deaths to show on the index? And do you know if Ancestry.com will have virtual copies of the original documents listed on the index?
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The civil index on LDS Pilot site goes up to 1958 for the Republic of Ireland (it's been online for a little while). Ancestry has very little Irish information in it's databases and the only way to get the original registrations is to order the certificate.
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brdtrd
Three Birds are mentioned in the Index to Slater's Directory 1894 and there are at least 7 in Thoms Directory for Dublin for 1958. Can you state precisely your interest
Regards Quaxer
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Thoms 1922 and 1937 shows
Joseph Bird 128 Leinster Rd, Rathmines
The Misses Bird, Churchtown House, Dundrum
(also a Rev.Richard Bird, rector of St Kevin's church)
1937 also has an Alfred, an Arthur and a Leopold Sidney in various parts of Dublin
eadaoin
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Thanks to you: Shane, Quaxer, Aghadowey & Eadaoin!
The Civil Index has really given me some hope and I will order my grandfathers certificate asap. Is it still being added to?- incomplete?
As for my precise interest: I am looking for information on my great grandfather, Joseph Bird Esquire (Edith Challen), formerly of Leinster Rd. Rathmines. Middle names, Birthplace (their marriage certificate cited Joseph was from Kent at the time). I am also looking for information on my grandather's siblings and descendents. I know that Joseph Godfrey died in the Quetta earthquake, but because my grandfather (Alban Lindley) was disowned by the family as a young boy, I have no knowledge of my Dublin Birds. (My uncles & Father attempted to meet their grandfather when they were soldiering during the Second World War but were turned away at the door.) Surviving siblings were: Eileen, Harold Theodore, Edith Mabel, and Amy Dorothy (she married a Crawford). My father and Uncles (deceased) did not like to talk about family history and unfortunately I started genealogy in the past 10 years!
Quaxer - could you please tell me the three Birds mentioned in the Slater's Directory and the 7 in the Thom's Directory for 1958? I may be able to connect the dots..
When I order my grandfather's birth certificate, should I order the Authenticated version? or the Full (long form)?
Once again, THANKS for your interest!
:)
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probably best to order the research cert (it's also the cheapest at €4) as this is a photocopy of the original register record... so there's no chance of any mis-transcriptions.
Shane
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.....The Civil Index has really given me some hope and I will order my grandfathers certificate asap. Is it still being added to?- incomplete?.....
the Familysearch civil index is supposed to be a complete transcription of the GRO index books. It covers BMD registrations up to 1958 for the 26 counties and up to 1922 for Northern Ireland.
Shane
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Thanks Shane, I will order that version. You have been a BIG help!!
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no problem..
tracing back the address for the Bird family it looks like they moved to the Leinster Rd address sometime between 1894 and 1904
1904 & 1914
Rathmines.
128 Leinster-road, Joseph Bird
1894
Rathmines.
128 Leinster-road, The Misses Morris
there's a possible listing for the family in Harolds Cross
2 Harold-villas (rere of Kenilworth-square.)
Bird, Joseph, esq.
The two locations are less than 1km apart - see google map : Leinster-road to Kenilworth Square (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Kenilworth+Square+E,+Dublin+6,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&daddr=Leinster-road+rathmines,+dublin&geocode=FaKXLQMd0D-g_ylfgCHpBQxnSDGRP8uTG-OPYw%3BFV6kLQMdm0qg_yl3iAnMBAxnSDESsUMYNQpJKg&hl=en&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=53.318775,-6.275747&sspn=0.005345,0.012853&ie=UTF8&ll=53.321223,-6.273451&spn=0.005345,0.012853&z=16)
Shane
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You are most likely right on this- I know that my great grandfather met his demise as a result of an accident with a runaway horse and cart..on Kenilworth Rd. I rec'd a copy of his death certificate,and it stated he was living at #12 Kenilworth Rd at the time.
It looks like he lived the majority of his adult life in that area.
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And buried in Mt. Jerome Cemetery. Sent my globetrotting niece to explore, on a hunch I had - a grave digger helped her find the Bird tombstone - so at least I know where he rests.
The grave is in great condition, which I would expect indicates that some one is looking after it or has left monies to maintain the plot.
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BrdTrd
Slaters 1894 Index shows the following:
Judge William Seymour Bird 38 Lower Leeson Street
Rev. James Sandys Bird M.A. Rathfarnham Rectory Terenure Road Rathgar
Henry Bird 18 Palmerston Road Rathmines
Andrew Bird 78 Upper Leeson Street
....Bird 26 Ailesbury Road Merrion
Joseph Bird 2 Harold Villas, Harold's Cross Road
Patrick Bird (Farmer) 12 Castle Avenue Clontarf
State which one is of interest and I can check my Irish Times Source Work 1859-1901 to see if I have any entries for ones of interest. Regards Quaxer
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Brdtrd
I have no entries for Birds at Leinster or Kenilworth Rd. in my Irish Times work 1859-1901
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Brdtrd
Thoms Directory 1958 shows the following in its Index
Alfred Bird & Son (Ireland) Ltd 23 Great Ship Street Food Products (including custard)
Edward Bird 7 Farney Park, Pembroke
J. Bird 23 Drimnagh Road Crumlin
Mrs Bird 21 St. Clements Road
Mrs A. Bird 266 Clontarf Road
Mrs E.Bird Ominica Dublin Road Sutton
W.G.Bird Glengyle Sandycove Road Dun Laoghaire
W.H.Bird 67 Clonkeen Road Deans Grange Blackrock
Correction to Message 1. The address in Ailesbury Road should read No.20
Regards Quaxer
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Quaxer,
Thanks!
I am interested in the Joseph Bird at the 2 Harold Villas - I believe he is my great grandfather, and he resided there until Leinster. Some of the other Birds are probably also related but I cannot know for sure until I can establish Joseph's family of origin. The trail ends with his marriage certificate which states that he is from Kent, married Edith Challen of Brighton and ended up in Dublin for the remainder of his life. He is entered into Thoms list so I believe that makes him somewhat privileged.
Henry Bird also lived in the Rathmines area and so might be related.
Thanks for the 1958 list - down the road, I might be able to make some connections..
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Brdtrd
There is an entry for Joseph Bird at No. 128 Leinster Road in Thoms Directory1934 but the next Thoms I have is the 1942 Edition and there is no entry for him there at all
Regards Quaxer
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He died in 1943, living at the time @12 Kenilworth Rd. He was 83.
Thanks for all the info!
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The fact that Joseph and family are listed in Thom's does not necessarily mean that they are privileged - many private residents and trades are included in the street listings.
English civil records began earlier (1837) so it should be possible to get details on the births of Joseph & Edith. There's a possible match for Joseph's birth in Kent around the the right time on FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/) :
Record type : Birth
Year Quarter: Mar 1851
Name : Joseph Robert Bird
Registration District : N Aylesford
Volume : 5
Page : 479
The district seems to be around the Northfleet area, between Gravesend & Dartford. There's also a good possible match for Edith's birth in Sussex :
Record type : Birth
Year/Quarter: Dec 1862
Name: Edith Challen
Registration District : Brighton
Volume: 2b
Page: 222
you can order certs online from GRO UK (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/) using these references.
are Joseph & Edith's parents named on their marriage cert ?
Shane
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Hi Shane,
The marriage certificate (1888 - in Brighton) says that Joseph ( an accountant) was living in the Parish of Rathfarmham, County Dublin at the time of the marriage. And that his father's name was John, his father was a farmer and he was deceased at the time of the marriage.
Again, no middle initials or names for Joseph or John.
Sorry, it was on the Census for 1911, under 'where born' that it says Joseph was born in Kent. There is a cross out - something that looks like "Allhorne" but it is crossed out and I can't make it out and Kent is written above the cross out. Edith's says Sussex. The 1901 Census just says England for both of them.
I have been able to track down Edith Challon, my great grandmother, to Brighton - father was William Challon, but have not gone too far with her yet.
I have had some possibilities for Joseph in Kent but have not been able to pin him down w/o further info. Tunbridge Wells looks promising. Or perhaps there is an Ireland connection.
Am hoping there might be more info on my grandfather's and siblings birth records when they come.
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I found 1871 and
1861 1881 census returns for the Challen family, if they of any use. If I have the right household Edith's father (William) occupation is listed as Jeweller...
I'll have a look for any sign of Joseph in the Rathfarnham area.
Shane
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Really! Who do they show? I knew he was a jeweler/silversmith so youhave the right Challen. Apparently there is a Challen piano but no relation as far as I know.
Thanks for looking in Rathfarnham for me!
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1881 - 85 Kings Road, Brighton, Sussex (RG11/1092)
Challen William 55 Head Jeweller Employs 2 Shopmen Mary Le Bone, London
Challen Mary A 59 Wife St Anns, Lewes, Sussex
Challen Edith 18 Daughter Brighton, Sussex
Burrage Ellen 21 Servant General Servant Horsham, Sussex
1871 - 85 Kings Road, Brighton, Sussex (RG10/1086)
Challen William 45 Head Jeweller & Silver Smith Marylebone, Middlesex
Challen Mary Ann 49 Wife Lewes, Sussex
Challen Ernest 14 Son Scholar Brighton, Sussex
Challen Amy Louise 12 Daughter Scholar Brighton, Sussex
Challen Edith 5 Daughter Scholar Brighton, Sussex
Byworth Arthur 21 Assistant Jewellers Assistant Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Slaughter Louisa 20 Servant General Servant Goring, Sussex
(name, age, status, occupation, place of birth)
Shane
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Yes, this I have- the Challen line is so much easier than the Birds.
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..... it was on the Census for 1911, under 'where born' that it says Joseph was born in Kent. There is a cross out - something that looks like "Allhorne" but it is crossed out and I can't make it out and Kent is written above the cross out. Edith's says Sussex. The 1901 Census just says England for both of them....
I had a look at that census form - and I think that crossed out entry looks like 'All born in...''
I suspect he was thinking about the sections to the left about number of children etc and initially was thinking that this column related just to where the children were born and was going to enter something like 'All born in Co. Dublin' ..
I havn't found any promising matches for the Bird household in Kent on the 1871 or 1881 census. Could John and family have moved over to Ireland soon aftr his birth ?
I know that my great grandfather met his demise as a result of an accident with a runaway horse and cart..on Kenilworth Rd. I rec'd a copy of his death certificate,and it stated he was living at #12 Kenilworth Rd at the time.
found him still listed at 128 Leinster Rd in Thom's 1938
12 Kenilworth Rd is listed as Percy H. Stewart
Shane
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How do you do that?! Am glad that you are able to call up the actual Census form tho - solved the mysterious cross out for me...Thx
As for Joseph's whereabouts b4 his marriage - your guess is as good as mine - Rathfarnham is as far back as I can get, so far. I guess he could have relocated as a child...
Another angle is looking at possible families names on Census forms in hopes they have been handed down. (George, Joseph, Arthur, Harold, Leonard, Lindley, Edith, Dorothy, Amy, are a few names in the last generations there & over here)
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Brdtrd
Thoms 1942 shows a Leslie Crawford as the householder of No.12 Kenilworth Road.
There is no reference to Joseph Bird in the Index.
Regards Quaxer
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Hi Quaxer - an interesting little sidebar - my great aunt Amy Dorothy married a Thomas Leslie Ormond Crawford of Rathmines in September 1930. ( This from the RCB Library - St. Matthias Records)
Coincidence?!!
My great grandfather Joseph was living with his daughter Edith "Mabel" Bird (she was still a Bird) at 12 Kenilworth Rd when he died in 1943.