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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: millymcb on Monday 12 February 07 14:30 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
I'm looking for a bit of advice and help on the following...all suggestions gratefully received.
I am trying to trace back from a John and Jane Smith in Manchester. All I have found out so far is that he was a spinner and one census has him born in Athlone. His father - also John Smith (married to Margaret) was a Weaver - also born in Ireland. Not a lot to go on when you are called John Smith!
Anyway, I have found a census which I think may be them which does have a clue I could follow up. It lists them with presumably their parents and a child called William Henry Smith. The Ancestry transcript says he is 18 but looking at the original I think it could actually say 1 yr. If anyone has access perhaps they could take look and see if they agree. If it is 1yr then I think I may have the right family.
Also - and here is the clue - there is a 17 year old called Wm Alexr Barton who is down as grandson... (of John senior and wife Margaret). His birth is abt 1825 and it says 14th Regiment of Foot and I think it might say Tring. I am thinking that if this IS the right family then maybe I can bypass the Smith brick wall and if I can trace his parents I may be able to find a maiden name for either John's daughter or his wife Margaret to go on. (I am having no luck finding the maiden name of Jane Smith mother of William Henry as there are so many in Manchester at that time and the certificates I have had so far are not right)
I went to Army births and have found a Willam A Barton with the following reference
Athlone 1834 14th vol 6 p7
Army Births and Baptisms AB91.
It does not say he was born in Tring but Athlone. I checked with a military historian who can find no reference of the 14th being in Tring in 1834 but said they may have been in Ireland around that time.
So here's my questions:
If I order this army birth certificate what kind of info might it contain to identify the parents?
Does anyone know if it likely that (or why) the birth might be registered as Athlone but he put Tring on a later census (other than he was being a bit daft!)
Does anyone have access to any 14th Regt refs which might help.
Can anyone find William Alexander Barton on any other census as I can't find him anywhere. He was working as a porter on the one I have so presumable he was not in the army himself.
And of course if anyone can help find either of the John Smiths in 1841 (or any other clues for that matter!) that would be great but I know that's not easy
CENSUS WHICH INCLUDES HIM:
1851
Class: HO107; Piece: 2225; Folio: 656; Page: 10
John and Jane on 1861 (I think)
Class: RG9; Piece: 2930; Folio: 53; Page: 26
John and Jane 0n 1871 (I think)
RG10; Piece: 4031; Folio: 10; Page: 20;
Son William Henry in 1881 & 1891
RG11; Piece: 3981; Folio: 108; Page: 19;
RG12; Piece: 3255; Folio 108; Page 40;
(I do have him without parents in 1871 RG10/4030 & 1901 RG13/3761 but can't find the full refs just now!)
Thanks in advance
:) :)
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Hi there. The John Smith (junior) married a Jane Rice on 8/8/1847 at the Collegiate Parish Church Manchester. Both of Full Age and living in Lee Street. Father to John is John Smith, Spinner. Father to Jane is James Rice, Spinner.
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PS. To date, I've not seen any reference to Athlone on any documents. Only Ireland stated on the census records.
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Drew,
You may have noticed this thread is 17 years old and millymcb, despite being a global moderator, hasn't been active here for over two years.
On the off chance that she does return, I have a couple of comments about the original posting. Firstly, if the birth of William A Barton was 1834, then there will be no birth certificate, just a baptismal record, as civil registration didn't start until 1837. Second, I can confirm that the 1st Battalion 14th Foot were in Ireland at the time.
However the earlier reference to him being born in about 1825 in Tring is unlikely if it was connected with the 14th Foot as they were in India at the time and had been there since 1813 and didn't return to Britain until 1831, before moving to Ireland in 1832. 'Tring' may be a mistranscription of a place in India.
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I think the word is Army
(http://)
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Thanks Andy J2022 and Comberton.
I realised the post quite old but thought to add a reply just on the off chance :-)
The Athlone confused me as just like your explanation, birth certificates started in England & Wales in 1837. So I'm wondering if Athlone is a Red Herring. I'll bear it in mind on my notes though.
Now you've showed a zoomed in of the census, yes that appears to be Army, Thanks.
Cheers, Andy
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The word is definitely Army, not Tring. It's an 1851 census record and WAB's age was 17 so born 1833/4 not 1825. There will be a birth record as it was recorded by the army, but it may not give the mother's maiden name.
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Just to add and as a matter of record. I purchased the Birth Certificate for William Alexander.
It gave me the following information.
Date of the Child's Birth: 1 May 1834
Place and Date of the Place: Athlone
Child's Baptism Date: 30 Sepr. 1831(*)
Christian Name: William Alexr. Barton
Parents Names: Henry + Sarah Barton
Rank of the Father: Serjeant
(*) Note baptism date/year looks to be transposed incorrectly
ps. This Birth Certificate broke all records between purchase and delivery by post of five days LOL
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WAB's father Henry Barton was born at Kinawley, Fermanagh circa 1803 per his army papers:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F0349%2F068%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F349%2F833379
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Thanks ShaunJ :-)
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Army pensions records reveal that Henry Barton emigrated to Tasmania (from Ireland) in 1852.
There's a Launceston newspaper announcement in 1865 of his son WAB's accidental death from drowning in New Zealand in March that year
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38659429
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Henry Barton died in 1879 aged 80 per this announcement:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/66501622
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Death of Sarah Barton in 1881
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38227814
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My interest is maternal Caroline Barton nee Smith.
Her father John Smith born Ireland died in Manchester, England.
His son John Smith also born in Ireland married a Jane Rice (B. Ireland) in Manchester