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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: caza on Monday 22 November 04 11:43 GMT (UK)
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Hello all, this is my brick wall that l have just about given up on, but will try one more time. l have a Rebecca Ellis 1881 census was (w) 36 yrs old with 3 sons. my problem is the father. l have obtained copies of thier birth certificates and death cert of one child 10 months old when died, but with no luck. can anyone suggest another way of finding out the fathers name. The births all took place at Armley.
I cant find any marriage details for her.
any help will be greatfully appreciated
Carol.
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Hi carol, it seems rebecca was never married, Ellis is her maiden name, i think its her in the march qtr 1845 born hunslet 23 353. Hunslet covers armley and holbeck where it said she was born. I think she put widow down on the census just to save face, as it was a sin in those days to have 3 kids and not be married. Happy hunting.
moira
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Hi Ladies, thanks for replying. Even on the 1871 census it says "unmarried ". So l think thats it, she is a mystery, or more to the point the father(s) are a mystery. None of the certificates were of use, none stated the fathers details. l wish it was that easy.
thanks again
Carol.
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Have you tried looking for the children's baptisms.....even though you have their birth certificates...it is possible they were baptised in Armley...and sometimes (with luck) the 'alleged father's' are noted in the baptism entries...
I found one last week with a man's name crossed through...then the mother's name & single woman written in.... this is quite common in the Yorkshire records....although less so towards the end of the century
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Hi Kathy, can you tell me where l can find the baptism details, is there anything on the net, as l am in Australia.
thanks
Carol.
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If you would like to give me the children's names & dates of birth, I will try to look in the Armley records for you when I get chance........it could be a couple of weeks......I've started a book for other people's look ups at the Leeds archives.....but only go once a week .......on Monday they are only open in the morning....so it may be the following week before I get down the list !
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Hi Kathy, l would really appreciate that, thanks heaps. The names are : Arthur Ellis 25th July 1869, Darcy Ellis 13th March 1873 and Sydney Herbert Ellis 28th May 1880.
thanks again and l look forward to hearing from you.
Carol.
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I have just arrived home from the local LEEDS Aechives and as promised...had a look for your Ellis'
With no luck on the names you have me .... but this is what I found .... which you can add to your (i am sure - bulging) file...
Checked Armley baptisms Sept 1868- 1881
All Ellis' :-
5th September 1869
Mary Jane ELLIS born 1864
John William ELLIS born 1866
Edward ELLIS born 1869
all three children of James & Elizabeth
(Mason of Armley)
November 24th 1869
Annie ELLIS born 18th Nov 1869
dau of William & Ann (Blacksmith - Armley)
31st December 1879
Amy Ann ELLIS born Nov 24th 1879
dau of Edward & Sarah Jane
(Labourer - Armley)
Sept 20th 1880
Elisa ELLIS b. 17 August 1872
Emma ELLIS b. 9 Mar? 1875
Arthur ELLIS b. 14 Aug 1877
all children of Edward & Sarah Jane (Lab. Armley)
Also on 20th September 1880
Clara ELLIS b. 28 May 1880
dau of John & Ann (Railway Inspector - Armley)
29 Marxh 1881
Charles Colman ELLIS b. 7 March 1881
son of James & Charlotte (Rivitter = Armley)
I am sorry I didn't solve your mystery......but they may turn up one day !
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Hi Kathy, that was quick service. Thanks very much for checking for me. Maybe she was a rebel and did everything she was not meant to do in those days !! According to one census she was a maid. One cousin suggested to me that maybe she was a maid to royalty, had an affair with the master, and we all have royal blood in us ???? Thanks again, l will give up now.
Carol.
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How well off was she, any chance poor law records may help? How about baptism in a neighbouring parish? Don't give up hope Caza you just never know what may turn up if you keep plodding away. Good luck.
Pete
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Hi Pete, l have enquired aout poor law records in Leeds, but with no luck. I never thought about baptism in other parish's. Thanks for the thought. You have inspired me to try again. Thanks
Carol.
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hi
I don't really think we have a direct connection from what i have read above. however my mother was Dorothy Ellis the second youngest of ten children of Herbert Ellis and Gertie Cooke all born in Doncaster.
Herbert was the illegitimate son of Agnes Ellis born Doncaster. She had two sons out of wedlock and I cannot trace any father. She eventually married William Massey a widower with children. Herbert was brought up with his grandparents Robert Eliis and Georgianna crowcroft. Robert was born in Barnsley.and the son of William Ellis and Mary Wainwright from Sandle Magna Wakefield. I can go into more detail but at this stage it may not be of any use to you. regards Janet
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Just a suggestion - you could try and find out if there are any Court records available at the Leeds Archives. Sometimes father's who were not married to the mother of their children were made to pay maintenance by the Courts....even back then!!
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To go back to the suggestion that they may have been baptised elsewhere: There are (at least) two C of E churches in Armley; St. Bartholomew, which is Armley Parish Church, and Christ Church, Upper Armley. I'm not certain, and a quick look at Genuki doesn't help, but Upper Armley could have been a separate parish by that time.
Armley is a big place---there are a lot of churches/chapels where they could have been christened, not all in Armley itself.
Good luck with your search.
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Thanks for all your suggestions. I will try my luck once more.
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Hi caza
it's true ...this could be like finding a needle in a haystack......but I will have another go for you when I get an opportunity ! I have a whole list of look ups and only go to the WYAS once a week.
In Armley alone there are numerous possibilities......
Armley Baptist, Weslyan, Bethesda, Christ Church (Upper Armley), Whingate Weslyan (Upper Armley), United Methodist Free Church, Southfield Primitive Methodist,....... all with christenings in the 1870-80's.
St Dunstan, St Hugh, Oak Road Congregational, & Providence Chapel were all consecrated after 1884. Ven. Bede was not opened until the end of the 1930's.
There is an entry for an Arthur Ellis on the LDS family search website - in an ancestral file - (I know they can be dodgy!) - but this gives this 'Arthur Ellis' as born around 1875 - in Farsley - and also there is a similar entry in the IGI section saying Armley 1875. It gives no parent - so gets you no further !!
I will try to check off the above churches week by week - but it is possible that they were never baptised ! I will start with Christ Church - which was consecrated in 1867 and a new parish formed at the time - so it is possible that she decided to go to the new church.
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Hi Kathy, I really appreciate your help. If ever you need any looking up in Melbourne, Australia, I will be only to happy to help.
Thankyou, thankyou.
Carol.
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Hi. went to the archives today and searched through the Christ Church, Upper Armley baptisms.....1869-1884
There were no ELLIS baptisms at all So that's another possibiity eliminated.
Sorry....will try another next time I go....
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Hi, thanks for the look up. Maybe next time !!
regards
Carol.
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Hi Carol,
I just read your saga of the illigitimate children. I am in Australia too and had a similar problem, my grandfather(b: Oldham 1910) was illigitimate, his natural mother was on the birth cert. but I knew he was brought up by another woman who was some how connected to the family. I posted a request giving the info on the BC, including addresses and a kind lady from Oldham went and looked up the electoral rolls for the address. They only give the names of people in the house of voting age, but I found her name and those of her two husbands, and as a result I have traced all her family. I am still struggling with the connection between the two mothers which may give more info on the natural mother and possibly lead to the father.However, electoral rolls may be an idea.
Wendy
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I am always willing to help - but not sure if the electoral roll route will help......do we have an address......do we have a male head of household ? What am I looking for ?
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Hi Kathy, the records l have is: Census 1871 Rebecca Unmarried Castleton Buildings, Armley. Census 1881 Rebecca (W) 15 Cottingham St, Armley. The three boys birth certificates all state Castleton Building, whether that is in Cottingham St, I dont know. In 1871 the eldest boy Arthur was one. She then went on and had Darcy 1873 and Sydney 1881. I even checked Darcy (GGrandfather) marriage cert and no fathers name was given.
Thankyou for your interest, hopefully the electoral roll might solve my little mystery. Thanks for suggesting it Wendy.
Carol.