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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: ronyag54 on Monday 05 February 07 10:38 GMT (UK)
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Whilst researching I note that several of my Povall ancestors living on the Wirral in the early 1800s travelled across to Liverpool to marry (St Nicholas or St Peter). I would have thought that pre steamboats this would have been a bit complicated. Does anyone know if this was usual practice?
Thanks
Gaynor
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I've noticed the same phenomenon with many of my Barlow ancestors from the Wirral. They also appear to have traveled to marry at St. Nicholas in the same period. Some then remained in Liverpool, but others returned to Heswall or other Wirral locations.
I'm also curious about the reasons they did this. Was it easier to marry in Liverpool? Were they escaping the scrutiny of family or the local parish?
Andrew
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I'm also curious about the reasons they did this. Was it easier to marry in Liverpool? Were they escaping the scrutiny of family or the local parish?
Andrew
Apart from those reasons ;D
I would imagin it would be more exiting to go on the paddle boat to liverpool then travel to the church by horse drawn cab through the city.Than get married in what i would think was at the time the outback of wirral. ;D All mud and no path ;D
Celia
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Hi, I also have members on my Taylor side making the same trip too, alas I don't know why, maybe someone could enquire at St. Nic's or St. Peter?
Regards, Richard.
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I find this a very interesting subject and if anyone ever comes up with a definative answer to this I for one would be very interested to know.
I have many Wirral born folk in my tree that married in Liverpool (just tried to count them and lost count ???). Interestingly I have found marriages that took place in Liverpool seemed to start around 1800 and marriages prior to 1800 took place in the Wirral, has anyone else found this?
Sue
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Sue
i think it was all to do with the opening of the cross river Ferries .Most of the old building in wirral with the exception of some Church's in birkenhead, wallasey & surrounding area's. Were not built till the mid/late eighteen hundreds,when wirral opened up to Liverpool. The top bit of the page of this webside will explain it better than i can ;D
http://www.answers.com/topic/mersey-ferry
Celia
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P.S
WELCOME TO ROOTSCHAT GAYNOR & ANDREW
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Thank you for the welcome Celia :)
A fellow researcher suggested a couple of reasons; St Nicholas did group weddings which made the process cheaper or a couple who were living together might not have wanted the neighbours to know they were not married. I also thought that perhaps for reasons of tradition you married where your parents had married. Two of my ancestors married in Liverpool in 1789, had all their children christened at St Oswald in Bidston (they were living in Claughton) and six of their children then married in Liverpool.
Gaynor
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I've found this in a couple of instances in my tree. In each case the first chlid was born within 6 months of the wedding.
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Hi,
Just joined and live in Wallasey. St Nicks was known as the Seamans church so possibly if your ancestors got christened, married or had their funeral service there then they were probably seafarers, or their relatives. I know one of my ancestors got married there but I think he was living in the city at the time.
I think it has been stated before but in many cases it was easier to travel to Liverpool from the likes of Seacombe than to other places on the Wirral. It hasn't really changed that much to this day if you are talking about public transport. :)
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Hi Certacito
Welcome to Rootschat :)
My Wirral ancestors who married in St Nicks mostly came from the villages of Irby, Thurstaston, Caldy and Frankby and worked as blacksmiths, ag. labourers or stone masons, not a seafarer amongst them.
It must have been quite a journey in those days.
Sue :)
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Hi Certacito
Welcome to Rootschat :)
My Wirral ancestors who married in St Nicks mostly came from the villages of Irby, Thurstaston, Caldy and Frankby and worked as blacksmiths, ag. labourers or stone masons, not a seafarer amongst them.
It must have been quite a journey in those days.
Sue :)
You can't be serious. All of those villages are Viking so your ancestors must have been seafarers. ;D On a more serious note, whom did they marry?
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I haven't quite got back to my Viking Ancestors .... as yet ;D.
Whom did they marry? ......... perhaps a personal PM is in order here.
Sue :)
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I was told the following (by an American relative!):
"St Nicholas’ church in Liverpool was the ‘Gretna Green’ of the North West. Many marriages were performed for people from as far away as North Wales, and regularly from Cheshire. The church did not ask too many questions as to whether the parents of the couple approved of the wedding or whether the bride was pregnant. Therefore it was relatively easy to marry at this church."
My Great Great Grandparents were also married here, in 1840, and they travelled from Chester to do so (they were both underage, and they were cousins - possibly a union which was frowned upon). He was in the brewery trade, not a seafarer.
Another pair of Great Great Grandparents travelled from Heswall to the same church, in 1842, the groom giving a Liverpool address, which I have been told was an "address of convenience" for the marriage, as they moved back to Pensby afterwards. He was an Agricultural Labourer, no seafaring influence there!
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Interesting reply Pippakit,
I also have marriages in Liverpool for reasons we cannot explain.
We have 2 brothers both from Madeley in Staffs, one married a local girl and the other from Nantwich, who went to Liverpool to get married and then went straight back to their roots.
There does not appear to be any illicit reason for this - although interestingly they were both in the brewery trade.
All the rest of the families married locally.
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Hi all,
I too had family who married at St Nick's from Birkenhead + Wales. One reason I was given is that it wasn't important what religion you were, you could be married - no questions asked. Also it was supposed to be a 'Pretty' location in the 19th century.
Regards
Harpist.
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I'm trying to find some more details about St Nicks but my usual source is not talking to me for some reason at the moment. For whatever reason they went there to get married, surely they had to reside in the parish for a period of time first? Reading of the banns and all that?
It's starting to annoy me now. ;)
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These nice sites should tell you all you want to know
www.old-liverpool.co.uk
http://www.sjsfiles.btinternet.co.uk/img0070.htm
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e1/
:o :o :o Somebody shorten that for me please i dont know how to it :-\
Celia
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Another thing about marrying at St Nick's or anywhere else it seems is that a lot of people used addresses of convenience nearby while the banns were read.
Harpist.
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people used addresses of convenience nearby
Thats probably why some bright spark ;D named the church "The Gretna Green Of Liverpool" Because in Scotland you had to reside in the area for a given time.Has anyone been to Gretna Green Museum.I have about three times it is fascinating.Did you know they have the original wedding dresses that were hired I think? to the runaway bride so they could have a white wedding :) There is a bedroom where they were allowed to spend the their first night,to consummate! their marriage if i remember rightly the door was locked.Before the errate father caught up with his his daughter.So there was nothing he could do then once the deed was done ;D
Sorry i have gone off topic here,but i thought you might find that snippit interesting
Celia
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Hello, I am wondering if your Povalls were James and mary, had children Joseph, John, Edward, George, Sarah Ann and James.
Regards
Esther
:)
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Hi all
Thanks for this post, it's been very informative as my gg grandparents lived in Wallasey but married in 'St Nicks', Liverpool also g g grandfather was a merchant seaman.
Another thing about marrying at St Nick's or anywhere else it seems is that a lot of people used addresses of convenience nearby while the banns were read
Explains why said gg grandparents where living in Paradise St at the time of their marriage :)
Jean
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Hello, I am wondering if your Povalls were James and mary, had children Joseph, John, Edward, George, Sarah Ann and James.
Regards
Esther
Hi Esther,
My Povall ancestors include James` brother Henry born 1806. Apologies for the delay :)
:)
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Its amazing how old topics gets revived, a few short weeks ago on a beautiful day i decided to take the ferry to liverpool.I know so much more about St Nicholas than i did when this topic was started and had wanted to see this famous church. It wasn't at all what i expected which was the usual all oak everything ;D when i walked in it was like a small cathedral all stone it took my breath away :) The only original thing in the church is the Christening font all else was lost in the fire.I have some postcards from the church one shows that the sea practically came up to it at one time.I will be going again soon because i didn't take my camera.There are three huge brass plaques high up the wall with hundreds of names on. So i will pack my sarnies and a bottle of lemon & Lime water to keep me happy for a couple hours ;D
Celia
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There was a big disaster there once Celia. Roof fell in I think and many people were killed. That's probably what the plaques commemorate?
Edit to add this bit I found.
The most notable and disastrous event in its long history occurred in 1810 on Sunday February 11 when the spire of St Nicholas' Church fell and 25 people, mainly young children under the age of 15 from Moorfields Charity School were killed, crushed under the rubble.
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Yes i know about that awful roof Fall, the poor church seemed to have gone through a disaster zone over time.I don't think the Plaques are for the people who were killed by the roof fall there are to many names.They are enormous they are high up on the wall and not easy to see.I think they will be marinas,but i will see when i go ;D
Celia
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Hi everyone - I thought I'd chip my bit in... St Nicholas may have been the area's equivalent to Manchester Cathedral in that it was much cheaper for marriages than the local parish church was, so folks flocked (to the Cathedral) to marry. I believe that Moxley's parish church in the Darlaston-Willenhall area also provided a similar cheaper marriage. I have ancestors who used each one of the three, despite living within another parish church boundary.
All the best, Anne.