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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: GIBONEE on Sunday 04 February 07 14:03 GMT (UK)

Title: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Sunday 04 February 07 14:03 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I'll try and make this as short as possible!

I am researching my great grandmother Florence Eliza Fisher and have been trying to for about 4 years! My grandmother claimed that Florence was French and so the story begins! 

I have her marriage cert. Dec 1892 All Saints Church Fulham, she was 20 a spinster and married George Cheshire 28 a Bricklayer. Their respective Fathers are both George. Cheshire was deceased (Bricklayer) and Fisher a Labourer. They were both living at 4 Elysium Cottages, Fulham.

I also have a 1901 census entry for her living at Star Rd Fulham. Her age is stated as 34 and hasband 36. Her birthplace is given as Cambs, Cambridge. As you can see the ages given don't tally.

Added to that I have her death cert. She died in 1915 age given as 41! In Fulham.

I have been trying to locate her birth record but with no success. Many people have helped me look with no luck either.

I am now wondering if she took on the name "Fisher" as one of my other relatives did this. He was registered in his Mother's maiden name and then "changed" his name later when his mother later married. Perhaps Florence's Mother already had her when she met George?

I'm completely stuck and clutching at straws!

Does anyone have any ideas where I can go from here? I have no other information other than what I have given.


Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Trees on Sunday 04 February 07 14:28 GMT (UK)
I expect you know this
1881 Florence E Fisher b abt 1867 from Wimblington Cambs dau of Susannah (1829) wid grocerand draper siblings Stokley H 1854 Sarah 1856 Susannah M 1858
Trees
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Trees on Sunday 04 February 07 14:29 GMT (UK)
Should have given the reference RG11 1690 fo 10 p 13
Trees
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Sunday 04 February 07 14:33 GMT (UK)
Are the witnesses names on the marriage certificate any help?
I found the same 1881 entry as Trees but tracing back to 1871 and looking at the IGI the father is Howard.
Barbara
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Trees on Sunday 04 February 07 14:36 GMT (UK)
1871 RG10 1610 fo 8 p8
Howard Fisher 1829 from Doddington Cambs with Susannah 1828 from March Cambs with 6 children including Florence E 1867 born Wimblington
STOKLEY is Stakeley this time
Is this the right family?
Trees
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Trees on Sunday 04 February 07 14:41 GMT (UK)
OK father George 1891 Florence 1884 dau George (1842)and Harriett (1842 both from Wimblington five children
RG 11 1301 fo 22 p 7
Any good?
Trees
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 04 February 07 14:43 GMT (UK)
Can you check the marriage cert to make sure Florence's age 20 isn't actually 26,
freebmd has a birth for Florence E. Fisher 1866 Sep Qu North Witchford 3b 560

Barbara
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Trees on Sunday 04 February 07 14:45 GMT (UK)
Sorry far too late isnt she 1884  having a senior moment try again
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Sunday 04 February 07 14:46 GMT (UK)
There is a Florence Fisher in Fulham in 1891 with several sisters. I have traced her back to 1871 and she is the daughter of a John and Mary. 1871 ref is RG10  732 f 141
Barbara
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Sunday 04 February 07 14:50 GMT (UK)
Barbara
Think that birth ref is for the Florence Eliza daughter of Howard and Susanna. Donnington is in the North Witchford RD.
Barbara
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Sunday 04 February 07 14:50 GMT (UK)
You are all being extremely helpful to me! Thank you!

Witnesses were James Driver and Florence Godfrey.

Howard and Susannah Fisher definately not the correct family as Florence in 1901 is living in Croydon and not married.

The age on the cert is a clear 20, however I know mistakes can be made and 26 ties in better with 1901 census.

Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Sunday 04 February 07 14:54 GMT (UK)
If her age at death was 41, that is also very clear on the certificate, then that would make her birth year 1874 ish.

Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Sunday 04 February 07 15:40 GMT (UK)
I have started to look at the witnesses and have found a family in Fulham with 2 Florence Godfreys, mother and daughter.
Ref RG12 45 f 82
I can't seem to find them in earlier censuses though.  As you thought there was a possibility of your Florence having a different surname from Fisher it has just got me wondering about them.
Barbara
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Sunday 04 February 07 17:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Barbara,

Which census did you find the Godfreys on?

Regards
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Sunday 04 February 07 17:38 GMT (UK)
Sorry.
The ref I gave is for the 1891 census ie just before the marriage.
Barbara
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Tuesday 06 February 07 07:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Barbara,

I am unable to access the 1891, so can't take a look at the census. Is it just the two Florences in the house and at what address?

I wonder if  Florence is on the 1891 as Flora, as she's later known?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: down-under on Tuesday 06 February 07 07:56 GMT (UK)
1891 RG12/piece 45  folio 82 page 36 Fulham St Mary London

Flozbury Road 14

Florence Godfrey age 48? widow Liv on own means born Woodford Essex
Florence dau age 23 born Marylebone
Arthur son age 20 Cashier Hampton Middlesex

next page
Frederick Godfrey son age 19 born Kensington Middlesex
Emily Lawrence servant cook age 23 born Wootton Bassett berkshire
Clara Gary age 24 housemaid Radford Somerset


Pam
Title: Re: Completely stuck!
Post by: Ecneps on Tuesday 06 February 07 09:26 GMT (UK)
Barbara
Think that birth ref is for the Florence Eliza daughter of Howard and Susanna. Donnington is in the North Witchford RD.
Barbara
Barbara 1
North Witchford also covers Wimblington  :)
Barbara 2
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Tuesday 06 February 07 16:02 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

Do you think it's strange that Florence can't be found on the 1891 anywhere? Something is amiss somewhere and I can't work out what!

She was living at 4 Elysium Terrace, Fulham before her marriage (at least that's what's on the marriage cert.)in 1892 with her future Mother-in-Law and husband George Cheshire. Could someone look to see if it was just mother and son living there in 1891 please? I'd then know that she was living elsewhere in 1891.

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: CatOne on Tuesday 06 February 07 16:20 GMT (UK)
Yes was just mother and son on 1891 census  :-\

Regards
Catherine  :)
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 06 February 07 16:22 GMT (UK)
It is just mother and son at the house ("4 Elysium Cottages") in 1891:

Elizabeth Cheshire Head Widow 63 Warwicks Rugby
George do. Son S 28 Bricklayer Middlesex Bermondsey

RG12/54 folio 83 p18

HTH

Anna
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Tuesday 06 February 07 18:14 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Thank you both! At least I know that Florence wasn't there, but where was she??????????

Regards
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Thursday 08 February 07 10:49 GMT (UK)
I have been out of circulation for a couple of days so am just catching up.
I searched for Florence using Flo* which would have picked up variants and peculiar spellings.
Have not thought this through completely but could the younger Florence Godfrey be your Florence?  I had assumed she was the witness ie friend of the bride but what if it was the older Florence who was witnessing her daughter'swedding.
Perhaps we should track the Godfreys back and see whether there were 2 marriages for Florence Godfrey senior?
Barbara
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Thursday 08 February 07 12:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Barbara,

Yes, I was wondering about this also, however her age doesn't quite match. I also wonder why she would have given a different address (ie. her future husband's address) on her marriage certificate and not her own?

Your continued help is so much appreciated! Thank you!
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Thursday 08 February 07 13:49 GMT (UK)
Hello again
I understand that many couples gave the same address for practical reasons ie the banns would only need to be read in one parish.
I will have a look for the Godfreys in 1881 and earlier.
Barbara
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: MJP on Thursday 08 February 07 15:05 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

What an interesting thread!  You have a real mystery on your hands GIBONEE  :o

I am having no luck tracing the Godfreys pre-1891, but this may be her in 1901 - different birthplace though.  Hope it helps someone!

RG13/63/118/33
14 Matheson Rd, Fulham
Florence Godfray, Head, Widow, 53, Living on own means, London Kensington
Helen C Godfray, Daur, unm, 32, "
Arthur C Godfray, Son, unm, 31, Ships broker, "
Elsa Nuppnall, GDaur, 7, "
Laura Brigg, Serv, 23, Cook, Dorset E Lullanth(?)
Helen Cornwell, Serv, 23, Housemaid, London W

MJP
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Thursday 08 February 07 15:20 GMT (UK)
I am having no luck at all in 1881 or before.  I can't seem to find birth registrations for the 3 Godfrey children shown in 1891 - at least not in the places where they are said to have been born.
That 1901 entry looks useful MJP.
Barbara
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: MJP on Thursday 08 February 07 15:26 GMT (UK)
The only possibility I can find for little Elsa's birth - probably not much use though:

Madeline Elsa Nuppnan
Sep Qtr 1893
Kensington
1a 138

MJP
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: Allan Robson on Thursday 08 February 07 15:40 GMT (UK)
Hello
On the Free bmd there are at least 2 florence fliza fisher births between 1871/72 I think one of these could be yours, dont worry too much about the Registration district shown.

Regards
Allan Robson
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: MJP on Thursday 08 February 07 15:56 GMT (UK)
Following up on the Godfreys: using freeBMD, it seems that Madeline Eliza's parents were likely Henry Frederick Nuppnan and Florence E. Clifton who married in Kensington in 1893.  Florence E. Nuppnan died in 1894.  Henry Frederick is a widower lodger in 1901. 

So, it's possible that Florence Godfrey the younger on 1891 is actually Florence Clifton?  Making her NOT Florence Fisher?  I have tried to find the Godfrey family as Clifton pre 1891, but no luck so far...

MJP
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Thursday 08 February 07 16:00 GMT (UK)
Oh dear MJP it seems to just get worse!
Think I'll go back over the Fishers again.
Barbara
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Thursday 08 February 07 21:59 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

My, you've been busy whilst I've been at work!

I have racked my brains over this for so long!

As suggested earlier, I thought maybe that her Mother gave birth to her before she met and married George Fisher and Florence just took on his name? I have tried searching the George Fisher marriages for the period and then searching for Florence Eliza under the wife's maiden name, but it's a long shot and very time consuming!

I started researching my family tree as I was really close to my Nan and she sparked off my interest in research, however I have completed both sides of my grandfather's and my Nan's Father's side back to the early 1800's, but the ever elusive Florence is still hiding somewhere!

I'm so, so grateful to you all for your help! 

Many thanks and regards, Gibonee

Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Saturday 24 February 07 09:36 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

Well I haven't had any luck looking throught the Fisher marriages. It had to be a long shot anyway.

I think I'll have to finally give this one up and be satisfied with my own theories as to why her birth record can't be found. (Or any other record for that matter before her marriage!)

Thank you so much to those of you that have helped in my search. It's very much appreciated!

Regards to all!
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Saturday 10 March 07 08:58 GMT (UK)
Hi again everyone,

I said that I'd become resigned to the fact that I couldn't find Florence! However, I cannot get her out of my head! It keeps going round and round! I'm sure some of you will know what I mean!

Can anyone think of any round about way I could try and find her? Maybe going back through her children to see if anybody else in the family knows anything about her or has any info. Problem is, I haven't got a clue where to start!

Any advice/help would be very gratefully received!!!!!

Many thanks
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: Barbara F on Saturday 10 March 07 12:08 GMT (UK)
I know what you mean Gibonee - she must be out there somewhere.
I have just had a look through all the postings so far - quite a few. It might be helpful if you were to summarise what you know and what has been checked so far.  Sometimes this exercise helps identify leads but it will definitely help other rootschatters understand the problem and maybe this time we will find her!
Barbara
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: GIBONEE on Saturday 10 March 07 15:06 GMT (UK)
Thank you Barbara!

Unfortunarely I haven;t got time to summarize now, as just about to go out and I thought I'd check Rootschat quickly beforehand.

I will of course do this as soon as I can, maybe later, but for sure tomorrow!

Thanks again!

Gib
Title: Re: Still Completely stuck!
Post by: rushworth19 on Saturday 07 September 13 15:23 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/piece 45  folio 82 page 36 Fulham St Mary London

Flozbury Road 14

Florence Godfrey age 48? widow Liv on own means born Woodford Essex
Florence dau age 23 born Marylebone
Arthur son age 20 Cashier Hampton Middlesex

next page
Frederick Godfrey son age 19 born Kensington Middlesex
Emily Lawrence servant cook age 23 born Wootton Bassett berkshire
Clara Gary age 24 housemaid Radford Somerset


Pam
Hi,   New to this site, just noticed my mothers name Emily Lawrence who was in service in Kensington. She was born in Wootton Bassett on June 5th 1898 and I know she was in service in 1921 to a Army Officer based in Kensington employed as general duties and cook. She married my father William John Harris also of W B in April 1922 and they evetually had three children, two girls and myself, who is the youngest, born August 1933. Hope this is of some help.  John.