RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: GIBONEE on Sunday 04 February 07 14:03 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
I'll try and make this as short as possible!
I am researching my great grandmother Florence Eliza Fisher and have been trying to for about 4 years! My grandmother claimed that Florence was French and so the story begins!
I have her marriage cert. Dec 1892 All Saints Church Fulham, she was 20 a spinster and married George Cheshire 28 a Bricklayer. Their respective Fathers are both George. Cheshire was deceased (Bricklayer) and Fisher a Labourer. They were both living at 4 Elysium Cottages, Fulham.
I also have a 1901 census entry for her living at Star Rd Fulham. Her age is stated as 34 and hasband 36. Her birthplace is given as Cambs, Cambridge. As you can see the ages given don't tally.
Added to that I have her death cert. She died in 1915 age given as 41! In Fulham.
I have been trying to locate her birth record but with no success. Many people have helped me look with no luck either.
I am now wondering if she took on the name "Fisher" as one of my other relatives did this. He was registered in his Mother's maiden name and then "changed" his name later when his mother later married. Perhaps Florence's Mother already had her when she met George?
I'm completely stuck and clutching at straws!
Does anyone have any ideas where I can go from here? I have no other information other than what I have given.
Thanks for reading!
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I expect you know this
1881 Florence E Fisher b abt 1867 from Wimblington Cambs dau of Susannah (1829) wid grocerand draper siblings Stokley H 1854 Sarah 1856 Susannah M 1858
Trees
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Should have given the reference RG11 1690 fo 10 p 13
Trees
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Are the witnesses names on the marriage certificate any help?
I found the same 1881 entry as Trees but tracing back to 1871 and looking at the IGI the father is Howard.
Barbara
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1871 RG10 1610 fo 8 p8
Howard Fisher 1829 from Doddington Cambs with Susannah 1828 from March Cambs with 6 children including Florence E 1867 born Wimblington
STOKLEY is Stakeley this time
Is this the right family?
Trees
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OK father George 1891 Florence 1884 dau George (1842)and Harriett (1842 both from Wimblington five children
RG 11 1301 fo 22 p 7
Any good?
Trees
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Can you check the marriage cert to make sure Florence's age 20 isn't actually 26,
freebmd has a birth for Florence E. Fisher 1866 Sep Qu North Witchford 3b 560
Barbara
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Sorry far too late isnt she 1884 having a senior moment try again
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There is a Florence Fisher in Fulham in 1891 with several sisters. I have traced her back to 1871 and she is the daughter of a John and Mary. 1871 ref is RG10 732 f 141
Barbara
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Barbara
Think that birth ref is for the Florence Eliza daughter of Howard and Susanna. Donnington is in the North Witchford RD.
Barbara
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You are all being extremely helpful to me! Thank you!
Witnesses were James Driver and Florence Godfrey.
Howard and Susannah Fisher definately not the correct family as Florence in 1901 is living in Croydon and not married.
The age on the cert is a clear 20, however I know mistakes can be made and 26 ties in better with 1901 census.
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If her age at death was 41, that is also very clear on the certificate, then that would make her birth year 1874 ish.
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I have started to look at the witnesses and have found a family in Fulham with 2 Florence Godfreys, mother and daughter.
Ref RG12 45 f 82
I can't seem to find them in earlier censuses though. As you thought there was a possibility of your Florence having a different surname from Fisher it has just got me wondering about them.
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,
Which census did you find the Godfreys on?
Regards
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Sorry.
The ref I gave is for the 1891 census ie just before the marriage.
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,
I am unable to access the 1891, so can't take a look at the census. Is it just the two Florences in the house and at what address?
I wonder if Florence is on the 1891 as Flora, as she's later known?
Many thanks
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1891 RG12/piece 45 folio 82 page 36 Fulham St Mary London
Flozbury Road 14
Florence Godfrey age 48? widow Liv on own means born Woodford Essex
Florence dau age 23 born Marylebone
Arthur son age 20 Cashier Hampton Middlesex
next page
Frederick Godfrey son age 19 born Kensington Middlesex
Emily Lawrence servant cook age 23 born Wootton Bassett berkshire
Clara Gary age 24 housemaid Radford Somerset
Pam
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Barbara
Think that birth ref is for the Florence Eliza daughter of Howard and Susanna. Donnington is in the North Witchford RD.
Barbara
Barbara 1
North Witchford also covers Wimblington :)
Barbara 2
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Hi All,
Do you think it's strange that Florence can't be found on the 1891 anywhere? Something is amiss somewhere and I can't work out what!
She was living at 4 Elysium Terrace, Fulham before her marriage (at least that's what's on the marriage cert.)in 1892 with her future Mother-in-Law and husband George Cheshire. Could someone look to see if it was just mother and son living there in 1891 please? I'd then know that she was living elsewhere in 1891.
Many thanks!
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Yes was just mother and son on 1891 census :-\
Regards
Catherine :)
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It is just mother and son at the house ("4 Elysium Cottages") in 1891:
Elizabeth Cheshire Head Widow 63 Warwicks Rugby
George do. Son S 28 Bricklayer Middlesex Bermondsey
RG12/54 folio 83 p18
HTH
Anna
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Hi,
Thank you both! At least I know that Florence wasn't there, but where was she??????????
Regards
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I have been out of circulation for a couple of days so am just catching up.
I searched for Florence using Flo* which would have picked up variants and peculiar spellings.
Have not thought this through completely but could the younger Florence Godfrey be your Florence? I had assumed she was the witness ie friend of the bride but what if it was the older Florence who was witnessing her daughter'swedding.
Perhaps we should track the Godfreys back and see whether there were 2 marriages for Florence Godfrey senior?
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,
Yes, I was wondering about this also, however her age doesn't quite match. I also wonder why she would have given a different address (ie. her future husband's address) on her marriage certificate and not her own?
Your continued help is so much appreciated! Thank you!
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Hello again
I understand that many couples gave the same address for practical reasons ie the banns would only need to be read in one parish.
I will have a look for the Godfreys in 1881 and earlier.
Barbara
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Hi all,
What an interesting thread! You have a real mystery on your hands GIBONEE :o
I am having no luck tracing the Godfreys pre-1891, but this may be her in 1901 - different birthplace though. Hope it helps someone!
RG13/63/118/33
14 Matheson Rd, Fulham
Florence Godfray, Head, Widow, 53, Living on own means, London Kensington
Helen C Godfray, Daur, unm, 32, "
Arthur C Godfray, Son, unm, 31, Ships broker, "
Elsa Nuppnall, GDaur, 7, "
Laura Brigg, Serv, 23, Cook, Dorset E Lullanth(?)
Helen Cornwell, Serv, 23, Housemaid, London W
MJP
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I am having no luck at all in 1881 or before. I can't seem to find birth registrations for the 3 Godfrey children shown in 1891 - at least not in the places where they are said to have been born.
That 1901 entry looks useful MJP.
Barbara
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The only possibility I can find for little Elsa's birth - probably not much use though:
Madeline Elsa Nuppnan
Sep Qtr 1893
Kensington
1a 138
MJP
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Hello
On the Free bmd there are at least 2 florence fliza fisher births between 1871/72 I think one of these could be yours, dont worry too much about the Registration district shown.
Regards
Allan Robson
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Following up on the Godfreys: using freeBMD, it seems that Madeline Eliza's parents were likely Henry Frederick Nuppnan and Florence E. Clifton who married in Kensington in 1893. Florence E. Nuppnan died in 1894. Henry Frederick is a widower lodger in 1901.
So, it's possible that Florence Godfrey the younger on 1891 is actually Florence Clifton? Making her NOT Florence Fisher? I have tried to find the Godfrey family as Clifton pre 1891, but no luck so far...
MJP
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Oh dear MJP it seems to just get worse!
Think I'll go back over the Fishers again.
Barbara
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Hi All,
My, you've been busy whilst I've been at work!
I have racked my brains over this for so long!
As suggested earlier, I thought maybe that her Mother gave birth to her before she met and married George Fisher and Florence just took on his name? I have tried searching the George Fisher marriages for the period and then searching for Florence Eliza under the wife's maiden name, but it's a long shot and very time consuming!
I started researching my family tree as I was really close to my Nan and she sparked off my interest in research, however I have completed both sides of my grandfather's and my Nan's Father's side back to the early 1800's, but the ever elusive Florence is still hiding somewhere!
I'm so, so grateful to you all for your help!
Many thanks and regards, Gibonee
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Hi All,
Well I haven't had any luck looking throught the Fisher marriages. It had to be a long shot anyway.
I think I'll have to finally give this one up and be satisfied with my own theories as to why her birth record can't be found. (Or any other record for that matter before her marriage!)
Thank you so much to those of you that have helped in my search. It's very much appreciated!
Regards to all!
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Hi again everyone,
I said that I'd become resigned to the fact that I couldn't find Florence! However, I cannot get her out of my head! It keeps going round and round! I'm sure some of you will know what I mean!
Can anyone think of any round about way I could try and find her? Maybe going back through her children to see if anybody else in the family knows anything about her or has any info. Problem is, I haven't got a clue where to start!
Any advice/help would be very gratefully received!!!!!
Many thanks
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I know what you mean Gibonee - she must be out there somewhere.
I have just had a look through all the postings so far - quite a few. It might be helpful if you were to summarise what you know and what has been checked so far. Sometimes this exercise helps identify leads but it will definitely help other rootschatters understand the problem and maybe this time we will find her!
Barbara
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Thank you Barbara!
Unfortunarely I haven;t got time to summarize now, as just about to go out and I thought I'd check Rootschat quickly beforehand.
I will of course do this as soon as I can, maybe later, but for sure tomorrow!
Thanks again!
Gib
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1891 RG12/piece 45 folio 82 page 36 Fulham St Mary London
Flozbury Road 14
Florence Godfrey age 48? widow Liv on own means born Woodford Essex
Florence dau age 23 born Marylebone
Arthur son age 20 Cashier Hampton Middlesex
next page
Frederick Godfrey son age 19 born Kensington Middlesex
Emily Lawrence servant cook age 23 born Wootton Bassett berkshire
Clara Gary age 24 housemaid Radford Somerset
Pam
Hi, New to this site, just noticed my mothers name Emily Lawrence who was in service in Kensington. She was born in Wootton Bassett on June 5th 1898 and I know she was in service in 1921 to a Army Officer based in Kensington employed as general duties and cook. She married my father William John Harris also of W B in April 1922 and they evetually had three children, two girls and myself, who is the youngest, born August 1933. Hope this is of some help. John.