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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: Q. on Saturday 03 February 07 22:32 GMT (UK)
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I believed Frederick Hollick b. abt 1854 Crouchfield, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, was the son of William Hollick b. abt. 1811 Hemel Hempstead and Eliza Scrivener b. abt 1812 Redbourne, Hertfordshire, until I realized...
William Hollick died in 1844.
I was a little disappointed.
So, while it's obvious William couldn't be the father, I'm wondering if Eliza is even the mother? Could Frederick be the son of his wayward "sister"? Both mother and sister are named "Eliza", who is the real mother and would she please stand up? Why can't I find Fredericks birth record? And who is his father? Inquiring minds want to know!
It's just like The Days of Our Lives.
::Sigh::
Any suggestions?
Q.
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seen the 1851 census - theres an older daughter ...
HO107/1715; Folio: 282; Page: 16 - Hemel Hempsted
Crouch Field
Eliza Hollock [sic] 39 Widow Head SchoolMistress Herts, Redbourn
William Hollock 16 son Coal Carter Hemel H
Elizabeth Hollock 14 dau Straw Plaiter do
Eliza Hollock 8 dau do do
Sarah Shephard 19 Unmarried Niece Middx, Edgware
Martha Woodward 29 Married Sister Hemel H
William Woodward 4 Nephew do
John Woodward 1 Nephew do
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Even though Eliza's husband died he still could be the older Eliza's son I'm afraid I have an instant of this on one of my trees. I was shocked to see base born of the widow X on the baptism record :'( I think the poor lady had been left with a young family and probably thought the "boy friend" would marry her and look after the children but he didn't so we don't know who he was. in a way I hope yours is the daughter's child
Trees
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It's a strange one this. ::)
In 1861 Eliza Snr is a Straw Plaiter, still in Crouchfield. In the household are:
Eliza 18, dau
Frederick 7, son
Sarah 3, dau
It certainly looks like she has another child in Sarah. Unless as suggested they are the children of an older daughter or the 'other' Eliza..
To complicate matters further there are several baptisms on IGI between 1831 and 1841 for children born to a William Hollick and Eliza in Hemel Hempstead but I cannot find them on any other census.
Couldn't find a birth record for Frederick but this looks like Sarah's.
Sept Quarter 1857, Hemel Hempstead
Sarah Hollick Vol 3a Page 285
Sheila
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Thank you all for your replies.
I didn't know if the younger Eliza could possibly be Fredericks mother as there's only 10 - 12 years between them. It's possible but...isn't it a bit unlikely she'd have two baseborn children by the time she was 18? That is unless her occupation is something other than straw plaiter. :o The youngest child, Sarah, is listed as grand daughter in the 1871 Census, so it appears that the younger Eliza is indeed capable of having a baseborn child.
Even I'm confused at this point.
I've been to the Family History Center and I've tried to find a record of Fredericks birth, but I can't. Was it possible his birth wasn't registered and how common was that?
Thanks again!
Q.
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This family gets more interesting as I dig even deeper.
Remember that niece, Sarah Shepherd? In the 1851 Census she's living with Eliza Hollick sr. and is listed as an unmarried niece from Middlesex.
By 1861 Sarah Shepherd's the unmarried head of a household, but she has a son, George W., age 3, and she's living with a boarder, George Chessum.
In 1871 Sarah is an unmarried housekeeper and the mother of three children, George 13, Louisa 8 and Clara 5. George Chessum is the head of household.
And I thought anyone directly related to THIS family was going to be boring ::)
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It is strange not to find his birth. I have some missing but they are all 1837-39 I wonder if he was registered with his mother's maiden name? Was he the first child? when did the parents marry? was it a first marriage for her could Frederick have been of a previous marriage? or a little indiscretion ';)'
Trees
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Could this be the birth Registration for your Frederick Hollick?
Frederick Hollick, Sept Quarter 1855, Sunbury Vol 4a P349
(I think it's Sunbury, it's a very bad manuscript)
On 1861 census there are only 4 Frederick Hollick's coming up, they were born:
1818 Dedham Essex
1849 Sandwich Kent
1852 Shellingford Berks
1854 Hemel Hempstead (your Frederick)
Do you think it's a possible ??? Whoever his mother is, if single, she may have gone to relatives for his birth.
If she was single I doubt if the birth reg would show a fathers name but it would be interesting to know who his mother was.
Sheila
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1841 census HO107 441/7 folio 49 page 1
Crouchfield Hemel Hempstead Hertfordshire
William Hollick 30 Hertfordshire Ag lab
Eliza Hollick 25 Hertfordshire
William Hollick 7 Hertfordshire
Elizabeth Hollick 4 Hertfordshire
next door to
William Hollick 55 Hertfordshire Ag lab
Sarah Hollick 55 Hertfordshire
Henry Hollick 15 Hertfordshire Ag lab
next door
Joseph Shepherd 30 Hertfordshire Blacksmith
Sarah Shepherd 9 not born Hertfordshire
William Shepherd 7 not born Hertfordshire
(Joseph Shepherd married William junior's sister Charlotte Hollick)
William Hollick senior aged 66 born Hensworth Hertfordshire Ag lab still living next door to Eliza on the 1851 census, which helps to establish the likely death date of Eliza's husband and her father-in-law.
Deaths Mar 1844
HOLLICK William Hemel Hempd. 6 418
Deaths Mar 1852
HOLLICK William H. Hempstead 3a 115
From the IGI and National Burial Index
MARY HOLLICK
Christening: 25 DEC 1831 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Buried: 12 FEB 1832 Infant
Father: WILLIAM HOLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
FREDERICK HOLLICK
Christening: 10 FEB 1833 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Buried: 22 MAY 1833 Infant
Father: WILLIAM HOLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
WILLIAM HOLLICK
Christening: 08 JUN 1834 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Father: WILLIAM HOLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
ELIZABETH HOLLICK
Christening: 25 DEC 1836 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford,
Father: WILLIAM HOLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
EMMA HOLLICK
Christening: 24 NOV 1839 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Burial: 12 JAN 1840 Infant
Father: WILLIAM HOLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
LOUISA OLLICK
Christening: 29 MAR 1841 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Burial: 04 APR 1841 Infant
Father: WILLIAM OLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
ELIZA OLLICK
Christening: 18 JAN 1843 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Father: WILLIAM OLLICK
Mother: ELIZA
11th February 1844
William Hollick aged 44
St John the Evangelist Boxmoor (this parish is not on the IGI)
This Hollick birth seems unaccounted for and not found on the 1861 census - no death registration for him either. Perhaps the name Shadrach became a bit of a mouthful and got changed to something more conventional?
Births Mar 1854
Hollick Shadrach H Hempstead 3a 293
William junior Eliza's husband had a brother called Shadrack
SHADRACK OLLICK
Christening: 25 JUN 1825 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Burial: 22 SEP 1825
Father: WILLIAM OLLICK
Mother: SARAH
WILLIAM HOLICK
Birth: 26 SEP 1806
Christening: 04 JAN 1807 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Father: WILLIAM HOLICK
Mother: SARAH
Regards
Valda
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Births Sep 1855
Hollick Frederick Sudbury 4a 349
Deaths Mar 1856
Hollick Frederick Sudbury 4a 252
Regards
Valda
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WOW
Can I hire you?
Thanks so much.
:)
Q.
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Thanks to each and every one of you for your help in this thread.
Shelia M - I agree, it would be interesting to know who the mother is and when/if I discover it, I'll let you know the 'end of the story'.
Valda - What a lot of work! Thanks for all the information you found for me.
Trees - We'll find out if this is an indiscretion or not, but it certainly is an interesting tale.
Newfy - Thanks for noticing my thread and helping me out.
I'll work on this and let you know what I find. Thanks again!
Q.
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Hi Debbie,
I searched the Boxmoor Parish baptism records and found the following ...
14May1854 Frederick, illegitimate son of Eliza HOLLIC of Boxmoor.
Does this make it any clearer???
Regards ... Peter
PS. Thanks for the PM
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Peter you are amazing! Really!
Thank you very much for your help.
Debbie