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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => England => Hampshire & IOW Lookup Requests => Topic started by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 20:18 GMT (UK)

Title: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 20:18 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I am trying to trace James Talford or it could be Tatford.  His daughter was Annie Talford/Tatford and she was born in  Hants NK in 1858. 

I think James was born about 1831.  I haven't had any luck in trying to find any of the family.  Could you please help.

Thank you
Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: phrishy on Friday 02 February 07 20:25 GMT (UK)
Where did you get the name and age from? maybe a marriage certificate or entry? who did she marry and where and do you have any witness names? what later censuses do you have them in?  If you can give the full details from one we could try and work backwards to a time when she might have been with her parents.
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 02 February 07 20:27 GMT (UK)
Births Jun 1858   
TATFORD    Ann       
Fareham 2b 428

Rambler
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Tati on Friday 02 February 07 20:28 GMT (UK)
The one I can see has a father Thomas, Excavator  :-\
(1861- RG9/646 72 23)
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 20:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Phrishy,

Many thanks for your reply.

I have a copy of Annie's marriage certificate to Thomas Wakeham on the 13th October 1877.  She was aged 20 at the time.

The marriage was witnessed by Jane Etherington and William Etherington.

The marriage was took place at Cliftonville Congregational Church, Hove.

Annie was living at 97 Shirley Street Hove at the time.

Annie's father James was deceased at the time of the wedding.

It is unclear on the certificate if the name is spelt Talford or Tatford.

Thank you for getting back so quickly,
Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 20:48 GMT (UK)
Hi Rambler,

Thanks for being so quick and helpful.

The birthdate ties up with my information for Annie but I still can't find her father's records.  I think he might have married in 1858 in Fareham 2b 831 but I can't find any mention of him on a census.

Kind regards,
Patience

Births Jun 1858   
TATFORD    Ann       
Fareham 2b 428

Rambler
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 20:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati,

Thanks for your help.

Annie's wedding certificate states her father's name as James, who was deceased by that time (October 1877) and his profession was as a general labourer.

Kind regards,
Patience

The one I can see has a father Thomas, Excavator  :-\
(1861- RG9/646 72 23)
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 02 February 07 20:56 GMT (UK)
If Annie was living in Hove when she married, this might be her father's death:

Deaths Dec 1868 
TATFORD    James        37   
Steyning 2b 154

So why aren't they showing up on census?   They must be really badly transcribed.... ???

Rambler
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Tati on Friday 02 February 07 20:59 GMT (UK)
Is this too much of a coincidence?

Here's your Ann in 1881, birthplace Titchfield Hampshire
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=22064706

This is the only Ann Ta(l/t)ford I can see in 1861:
RG9/646 72 23
Alverstoke, Hampshire
14 Nelsons Row

Thomas Tatford, head, 28, Excavator, b. Fareham
Elizabeth, wife, 24, b. Titchfield
Elizabeth, dau, 4, scholar, b. do.
Ann, dau, 3, scholar, b. do.
Harriett R, dau, 8 mo, b. Alverstoke
+ 2 boarders  

Elizabeth is widowed in 1871:
RG10/1093 45 33
Portslade, Sussex
12 North Street

Elizabeth Tatford, head, wid, 33, Charwoman, b. Titchfield
James G, son, 7, scholar, b. Fareham
Emily, dau, 3, scholar, b. Sussex Southwick
Augustus Olliver, boarder, 6, scholar, b. Arundel
Harry Olliver, boarder, 4, scholar, b. do.
Frederick Olliver, boarder, 7 mo, scholar, b. Shoreham

I can't see Ann in 1871 at all  ???
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Tati on Friday 02 February 07 21:04 GMT (UK)
There's a possible marriage James Tatford - Elizabeth Savage Dec 1855 Fareham  ???

... and a 14 year old Elizabeth Savage born Titchfield on the 1851 census
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 21:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Rambler,

I think that must be him.  Can't understand why he doesn't seem to be listed on the censuses either.

Thanks again,
Patience

If Annie was living in Hove when she married, this might be her father's death:

Deaths Dec 1868 
TATFORD    James        37   
Steyning 2b 154

So why aren't they showing up on census?   They must be really badly transcribed.... ???

Rambler
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 02 February 07 21:14 GMT (UK)
I think this is Elizabeth remarried in 1881, but some of the relationships are odd:

RG11; Piece: 1098; Folio: 91; Page: 31 - 114 Shirley St, Hove
Charistopher Smith - Head - 31 - Gen Lab - Southwick, Sussex
Elizabeth Smith - Wife - 39 - Titchfield
Harriet Savage - Sister-in-law - Unm - 37 - Titchfield
Edward Savage - Nephew - 16 - Fareham
James Talford - Nephew - 17 - Fareham
Emily Talford - Niece - 13 - Southwick, Sussex

The Talford children match 2 in the 1871 census entry Tati posted, but should surely be stepchildren - ?

And Savage fits with the possible marriage record for James.

Marriages Dec 1855
SAVAGE    Elizabeth        
TATFORD    James
Fareham 2b 831   


Was James/Thomas the same guy??   ???  ???  ???

Rambler
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 21:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati,

Thanks very much for your information.  Certainly the dates and places appear to tie up quite nicely but it remains a mystery why the father's name is down as Thomas in this one instance, if it was down as James there would be no doubts.

Best regards,
Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Tati on Friday 02 February 07 21:24 GMT (UK)
The IGI has a christening for a James Tatford

JAMES TATFORD 
Christening 03 JUN 1832   Fareham, Hampshire
Father JOHN TATFORD
Mother ELIZABETH     

but none for a Thomas. Perhaps Thomas was just an enumerator's mistake?
 
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 21:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Rambler,

Excellent research, many thanks indeed.

The data seems to coincide too well not to be correct and agrees with what assumptions I had made based on the little I had gleaned from the marriage certificate.

Another brick wall crumbles.

Thank you all,
Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 21:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati,

Wonderful, thank you.  Better than I had hoped for.

Thomas must surely be a transcribers error in the light of all this other corroborative evidence.

Patience

The IGI has a christening for a James Tatford

JAMES TATFORD 
Christening 03 JUN 1832   Fareham, Hampshire
Father JOHN TATFORD
Mother ELIZABETH     

but none for a Thomas. Perhaps Thomas was just an enumerator's mistake?
 

Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Tati on Friday 02 February 07 21:34 GMT (UK)
Here's the family in 1841:
HO107/389/4 23 18 & 19
Fareham, Hampshire
Gudge? Heath

John Talford, 37, (occupation too faint to read) - not born in county
Elizth, 32
John, 11
James, 9
Elizth, 7
George, 5
Henry, 4
Richd, 2
Levi, 5 mo

(I can see them in 1851 without James - let me know if you want details)
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 21:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati,

I think it is indeed Gudge Heath.

So much information to be getting on with.

Once again many thanks for all your help.

Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Friday 02 February 07 21:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Tati,

Sorry to be a nuisance but would very much appreciate if you could forward the 1851 information if you have it to hand.

Best regards,
Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Tati on Friday 02 February 07 21:52 GMT (UK)
Not a nuisance at all, Patience  :D

1851
HO107/1661 60 12
Fareham
Gudges Heath

John Tatford, head, 47, Labourer, b. Sussex Durington
Elizabeth, wife, 41, b. Fareham (as all others)
George, son, 15, Ag lab
Henry, son, 14, Ag lab
Richard, son, 12, Errand Boy
Levi, son, 10, scholar
Jane, dau, 8, scholar
Alfred, son, 5
Benjamin, son, 3
Jesse, son, 1
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Little Nell on Friday 02 February 07 22:44 GMT (UK)
Hi patience,

There doesn't seem to be a Thomas Tatford in Hampshire around 1831.  Two couples:

John & Elizabeth and a William and Mary.

Both couples lived in Fareham when their children were baptised.

John Tatford married Elizabeth Misslebrook 12 Jul 1829 in Fareham
William Tatford marrried Mary Smith 25 Feb 1827 in Fareham

Nell
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: GCG on Thursday 31 March 11 14:19 BST (UK)
Hi there,

I descend from Esther Tatford, daughter of John Tatford and Elizabeth Misselbrook. John's father was John, who married Elizabeth Mockford at Patching, Sussex in 1799. The family then moved to Durrington and finally ending up in Fareham.

Graham.
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: Kimbrey on Friday 01 April 11 16:19 BST (UK)
Marriage 12 July 1829 at Fareham
John TATFORD
Elizabeth MISSLEBROOK

Children baptised at Fareham (St Peter & St Paul)
04 Jul 1830-John
03 Jun 1832-James
11 May 1834-Elizabeth
12 Jul 1835-George
24 Jan 1837-Henry
03 Feb 1839-Richard
24 Jan 1841-Levi

may be more after 1841 !
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Sunday 03 April 11 17:01 BST (UK)
Hi Graham,

Thanks very much for this information I have not as yet got that far back with this family.  1851 census was the earliest I had so it has been very helptful.

Once again thank you
Patience
Title: Re: TALFORD/TATFORD
Post by: patience on Sunday 03 April 11 17:08 BST (UK)
Hi Kimbrey,

Have just seen your reply re the Tatford family.  Thank you for your time and the information of the 1841 census and the marriage details for John and Elizabeth.  The information was most helpful. 

Best regards
Patience