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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon Lookup Requests => Devon => England => Devon Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jckl on Monday 29 January 07 19:56 GMT (UK)
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I haveJamesSalter of Downlands Farm Kentisbeare who died 18th june 1840, his widow Sarah nee Hallard is in the 1851 census still at Downlands Farm, with children Sarah, William, James. I have tried to find them after that without success, I would be obliged if anybody could shed any light on the family. I found James who was my G.G. Grandfather in the 1861 census as a seaman RN but not the others
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Hi jckl,
Welcome to RootsChat :D
This looks like William in 1861
RG9/1378 Folio 9 Page 9
Head of Town
Ottery St Mary
Devon
Home of George Isaac 25 b Honiton, Labourer, wife Sally 25 b Ottery St Mary and family
SALTER William Lodger 22 Unm b Kentisbeare Labourer
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi kris. thanks for the info looks good, will go have a look Regards jckl
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And here is mum ;)
RG9/1381 Folio 107 Page 7
Papperford Place
Otterton Devon
HALSE Francis Head 53 Unm b Otterton Farmer 103 acres employ 3 men and 1 boy
SALTER Sarah Servant 50 Widow b Upton Somerset
HALSE John Servant 14 Unm b Otterton Plough Boy
Sorry haven't had any joy with young Sarah either married or single. Died possibly but with ages not listed at this time hard to tell
Cheers Kris :)
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1871 William is married
RG10/2041 Folio 8 Page 8
Sweethams
Ottery St Mary
SALTER William 33 Mar b Kentisbeare Labourer
SALTER Ann Wife 37 Mar b Gittisham Devon
SALTER Mary Dau 6 b Ottery Scholar
SALTER James Son 4 b Ottery
SALTER George Son 1 b Ottery
Possible Marriage
William SALTER = Ann REED Dec 1/4 1862 Honiton 5b 51
Cheers Kris :D
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My goodness I'm dumbfounded. 1861 sarah is 15 william 12 james 10. it looks like mother Sarah has come down in the world, James was my g.g. grandfather he was a bit of a mystery man he is missing between 1861 and 1881 when he turned up in Liverpool with a wife?? and children and search as I may there is no trace of a marriage. thanks again John ;)
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Is his wife Ellen in 1881 John? I see a James in Lancs with Wife Ellen and Children in 1881. (Born Tiverton) If this is your man I have him in 1871 listing as born Middlesex :-\ Kris
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Ooh Goodness John I have just found one in 1891 who sounds horribly like this James :-\
RG12/927 Folio 68 Page 12
4 Osborne Road
Milbrook
Hampshire
SALTER James Head 50 Mar b Kentisbeer (sic) Devon General Servant Domestic
SALTER Elizabeth Wife 49 Mar b Membury Devon
SALTER Alma Dau 16 unm b Lymington Hants Apprentice Dressmaker
SALTER Fred R H Son 14 unm b Freemantle Hants Apprentice Draper
SALTER Gilbert H K Son 12 b Freemantle Scholar
SALTER Daisey Dau 3 b Shirley Hants
and following through they are in Hants in 1881 so I am very worried about Lancs :-\
RG11/1223 Folio 63 Page 2
Velilia Cottage Foundary Lane
Millbrook
SALTER James Head 40 Mar b Kentisbeer Coastguard Com Boatman
SALTER Elizabeth Wife 39 Mar b Membury
SALTER Alicia Dau 6 b Lymington Scholar
SALTER Fred R N Son 4 b Millbrook
SALTER Gibert H K Son 2 b Millbrook
and 1871
RG10/1195 Folio 48 Page 4
Victoria Rd
St Mary Extra
Hampshire
SALTER James Head 30 Mar b Kentisbury Seaman RN
SALTER Elizabeth Wife 29 mar b Membury
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but this certainly looks like James and Sarah's son James to me. Are you sure you are tracing the right James :-\ Hate to say it but if your James ends up married in Lancs then I have a horrid feeling you have been following the wrong family :'( .................Kris ;)
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Hi Kris. It certainly looks as if I have spent a lot of time and money on the wrong family. I have Ellens death certificate and from that I got James birth certificate I wonder where I have got the lines crossed. Would it be possible to carry on this conversation by my regular email address which is
MODERATOR COMMENT: email address removed to avoid spam and other abuses. Please use personal message system to share email addresses and other personal details. Thank You Regards John :)
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Hi John.
We like our lookups to be on the boards so that the research my help the next person who may come along looking for these people. We now have a wrong family but that may just be the family someone else is after ;)
I was worried yesterday when I found this chap. So it is the James and Ellen in Lancs you are after then? If so I didn't find much yesterday but will give it another go. If it is the couple I found they were in Lancs with James suggesting a birth in Tiverton in 1881. 1891 he was missing and Ellen declaring married. 1871 he suggested a birth in Middlesex. Too very different POB. Wondering what made you think he was from Kentisbeare. Do you have anything further on him that may help?...........Kris :'(
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Hi. James is back in the 1901 census RG13 - 3427 -26 Ellen had died 29th Oct 1894. James died march 1908. My mothers story was, he came from a well to do family and that he was the black sheep of the family, he ran off with one of the maids then took his mothers maiden name of Salter, she said that he was a very well spoken man with a west country brogue, it was also said although I can't be certain, that his family name was Marshal. I found this story rather ambiguous, hence my research, it was to try and debunk it. There are other things in the story that I can relate later if needed. I have the census records of 1881- 1891- 1901 where the family are recorded . I have the death certificate of the James I believed was my ancester, where a Mary Isaacs was in attendance at the death,I also have the parish record from St Sidwells Exeter of the marriage of James & Sarah as well as the copies of the 1841 and 1851 census record given by the Devonlink website. Sorry to have been so long winded, I have tried to outline my problem Regards John
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OK John,
I think the first thing you need get over is James and Sarah in Kentsbeare. They were a red herring. They are not your James's family. Seems you do not have the 1871 census for James and Ellen so here it is
RG10/3777 Folio 108 Page 34
14 Lydia Ann Street
St Thomas Liverpool
Lancashire
SALTER James Head 26 Mar b Puddington Middlesex Genl Lab
SALTER Ellen Wife 30 Mar b Brighton Sussex
SALTER John Son 9 Months b Liverpool
So currently we have 1871 Puddington Middlesex, 1881 and 1901 Tiverton Devon and 1891 missing.
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi again John,
I am sorry to say I don't seem to be getting anywhere at all with this man. Of course if Salter was his mothers maiden name which he later adopted that is going to make it all the harder. I just cant seem to find him. Cant find the marriage either. Do you have Ellen maiden name? Far too many Ellens born Brighton to locate her...... I see his Children's name all so common also, a nice unusual family name would have been nice.
The only thing I can report (though totally out of my area and lost in Middlesex) is there does not appear to be a Puddington in Middlesex, yet there is one in Devon, not far from Tiverton.......Kris :)
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hi. So there maybe something in his Tiverton connection. I shall go back to my search and see if I can use some of the information that you have so kindly given me John
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Quite surprised how many James Salter's there are born Devon around the right time. One even sometimes lists Tiverton ::) If only we could find the marriage and hopefully get his fathers name.....Kris :-\
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I think you have hit the crux of the matter, I have been trying for 3 years to answer the marriage question, I think it would help if we had any idea where it happened if it did at all, ::)
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Hi Kris. I have found at least two who may fit the bill, going by the age given in the Puddington census 1871, 1844 vol 10 page 300. 1845 vol 10 page 277 is there a way to find any information from that Jckl
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I am afraid not jckl, not without buying the certificate. Unfortunately there are quite a lot in 1841 and 1851 born 1840 - 1845 in Devon, and even then there may be another name involved if there is any truth to the story that he adopted his mothers maiden name. I didn't find any that appear to be a well to do family with servants. I would like to try to find the marriage if it exists. Do you have Ellen's maiden name? You could get that from one of the childrens birth certificate......Kris :'(
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Hi Kris. Her name was Ellen Harriet Elphick born Brighton circa 1842 I have her in Brighton census 1851 ref HO107/1646-487-43. as a scholar, 18 Spring St Brighton. 1861 R G 9/602-14. as a servant, 3 Wykeham Terrace Brighton. 1871 R G 10/1088 -52 as a house maid ,7 Power square The Palace Brighton. I hope this can be of some use to you :)
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Hi again john,
I have been having another look about to no avail. I have checked every quarter from 1861 - 1871 and the only Ellen to Marry was Ellen Catherine Elphick in 1863. No Helen or anything likely sighted. One thing though that 1871 entry you mention is not your Ellen. Your Ellen is with William by them. That Shoreham Ellen has a father William......Kris :D
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Hello again. It seems that both of these people were trying to bury their past, I have 3 wykeham terrace as a home for wayward children run by a rev arthur wagner.It certainly makes me feel that I will never get to the bottom of it, that in some ways I have wasted a lot of time and effort on a mirage. I have been running a a similar check on Ellen run by one of your colleagues "suzard" and she has just sent me information regarding her and it is not very encouraging, so maybe I will let the matter rest, Regards John :-\