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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Kenda1 on Sunday 28 January 07 10:28 GMT (UK)

Title: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Sunday 28 January 07 10:28 GMT (UK)
I know my family are linked to Rabbie Burns somewhere but have yet to find it. I am stuck on peter Burns b 1824 approx. he married Grace Kerr Brown in 1853 but I can't find either of his parents. The whole of his family are from Dumfries but I believe his mother Jane was born in N Ireland approx 1801. Any info on his parents incl census would be great. My email address is

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Thanks
LESLEY :)
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 11:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Lesley  :)

The first thing I would do is to try finding a death certificate for him if he died in Scotland after 1854 wnen official registration began. This will show the names of his parents. This can be searched for on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. it's pay to view but very reasonable.

You could aslo check out the various censuses here and the 1841-61 indexes on Ancestry. The 1851 census is available for free searching on http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx

Robert Burns was not from Dumfriesshire but from Kirkoswald in Ayrshire. He didn't move to Dumfries until later. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Burns  and many more biographies on the web.

Regards

Gadget

Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 13:44 GMT (UK)
I have the family in the 1861 census I think

821 10 page 15

18 English Street  Dumfries St Marys

Peter Burns, hd, 37, woollen weaver  b. Annan
Grace, wife, 32, b. Kirkmahoe
Jane, mother, 60, b. Ireland
Agnes Russell, step daughter, 10, b. Dumfries
Thomasina Burns, d, 5, b. Dumfries
James Burns, s, 3, b. Dumfries
Charlotter Burns, d, 9 months , b. Dumfries


Gadget

PS - His death certificate in 1898 does not give his parents names , so it really is searching census info, I think.
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 14:32 GMT (UK)
At their marriage, Peter was living in Maxwelltown which is on the Kirkcudbrightshire side of Dumfries. Grace was a widow.

At the moment I can't find him in the 1851 in either KKD or DFS. It could have been mistranscribed.

Gadget
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Sunday 28 January 07 15:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that - I can't find him on any other census either. As his mother was born in ireland I am wondering if he was living in ireland on earlier census.
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 15:07 GMT (UK)
Have you got him on the 1871-1891 censuses. I'm trying to locate his mother's death.

Gadget

added - he was living at Nith Place Dumfries when he died and Grace was still alive - they seem very elusive  ???
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Sunday 28 January 07 15:18 GMT (UK)
Sorry - he seems to have disappeared!
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 15:20 GMT (UK)
 :D

Found him on the 1891 iat 3 Nith Place, Dumfries
821 17 page 5

Peter Burns, 69, Botanic Beer Manufacturer, b. Annan, DFS
Grace, 64, b. Kirkmahoe
Robert, son, 24, barber and dealer in fancy goods, b. Dumfries
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 28 January 07 15:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Lesley and Gadget

Just linking up your new post with your previous post in May last year to avoid people (Gadget!) duplicating searches and using up units on SP for info already found...may already be too late  :-\

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,153440.0.html

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Sunday 28 January 07 15:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks - I have found more info this time but still can't trace his parents. Will have to give up this side again for awhile!
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 15:31 GMT (UK)
Think I've now found them in 1871

821 15 page 33

76 St Michael Street Close, Dumfries St Michaels

Peter Burns, 50, woollen weaver, b. Annan
Grace, 45, b. Kirkmahoe
Thomasina, 14, woollen weaver,
James, 13, woollen twister
Charles, 10, Scholar
Ann, 8
Robert, 4

All children born Dumfries.

So mother possibly died 1861-1971 but where  ???

I'm perplexed by the beer manufacturer - wonder if it was written down in error or a joke  ??? ??? ??? he was a weaver on his death record  :-\
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 15:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks Monica  :)

That seems mostly the Kerr/Browns. We need to find Jane's death record  but it seems that Lesley doesn't seem to use SP and has given up already ???

Gadget
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Sunday 28 January 07 19:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Gadget

Have had trouble with SP but now back on but still struggling with his father. I have also found him following his marriage but no trace of his birth. I was thinking he was born in ireland, but census shows his birth as Annan (?)

LESLEY
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 28 January 07 19:12 GMT (UK)
He is consistent throughout all the censuses that he was born Annan, so we will have to take this. It might just be the first place he remembered but  :-\

I have tried finding his mothers death - with no luck. That would give her husband's name.


Gadget
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Biltong on Thursday 30 December 10 06:55 GMT (UK)
I have just stumbled on this posting.  My grandfather was Robert Burns, aged 4 on the 1871 census.  My understanding is that Peter was secretive about his origins.  My mother believed he had come from Ireland, probably during the famines.  Various censuses give varying birth years, and various family members have different legends of his origins.  I have a copy of a verse published in the papers on his death, calling him a "Botanical beer manufacturer".  My mother understood he was a respected herbalist who collected his own herbs.  On Robert's death, Peter's big books on herbs etc had to be sold.  Descendants of James remember the big glass herb containers.

An early census has Peter's mother, born in Ireland, living with him.

If you are still around, and are interested, I will dig out more precise information.

Bill Macpherson
Busselton
Western Australia
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Biltong on Thursday 30 December 10 07:02 GMT (UK)
Sorry  -  more detail.  Your (our) Peter Burns has no connection with the poet.  He is buried with Grace and my grandfather Robert in St Michael's "New" Cemetery off Craigie Road.
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Wednesday 17 April 13 20:35 BST (UK)
Just found your message, thank you. Did you ever manage to find Peter's father or more details on where his mother came from??
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Biltong on Thursday 18 April 13 13:18 BST (UK)
Sorry Kenda1.  All I know is that the 1861 census names Peter's mother Jane  -  age 60  -  occupation Pirnwinder (I must Google that) and born Ireland.

Peter's death certificate, informed by eldest son James, gave Peter's parents' details as --------------
He died 24/1/1898 aged 74 at 2 Nith Place of cyctitis.  In 1891, he and his wife Grace and my (as yet) unmarried grandfather Robert were at 3 Nith Place.  As I've said before, every census gives a conflicting age.

His children were:
Thomasina Grace b1/5/1856
James b27/5/1858
Charles William b 2/7/1860
Ann b28/6/1862
Robert b 6/1/1867
Janet Berwick b 3/7/1870

Are we related?
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Kenda1 on Thursday 18 April 13 18:35 BST (UK)
I am related via James Burns and Frances Hastie. Their grand-daughter Emily Stuart Burns was my grandmother...
Title: Re: BURNS - Dumfries info required
Post by: Biltong on Friday 19 April 13 02:05 BST (UK)
I am in occasional contact with two of James's grandchildren  -  (*)

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