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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rosie J on Friday 26 January 07 19:04 GMT (UK)
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Are you able to help me please?
In the 1871 Census I have found:
Frederick Tebbs c1844, Kennington
Mary Tebbs c1846, Hackney
Sarah Tebbs c1870, Kennington, Sy.
They are living with Mary's parents Samuel and Mary Harris at 6 Clarence Place, St Mary's Newington.
But I can't find them anywhere in the 1881. Where could they have gone?
Any help appreciated. Rosie.
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Hi Rosie,
There is a possible death for Frederick in the March quarter of 1881:
Frederick James Tebbs age 36
Mar 1881 Lambeth 1d 290
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Hello Tati
Thank you. I found that death as well but even if Frederick died in 1881, I wonder what could have happened to Mary and Sarah? I have tried looking for them but without any success. Many thanks.
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I'm struggling hard but can't see any reference to them after 1871 at all ...
We'd expect them to be in the Lambeth registration district but even a search with surnames doesn't show anything likely :-\ Beats me for now :P
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Hi Tati
This is really a difficult one because I cannot even find a birth for a Sarah Tebbs in the specified location and year.
I cannot find a marriage between Frederick Tebbs and Mary Harris. And I can't find any of this family on the 1881 census.
However, there is a birth record for a Sarah Harris 1870 in the correct locality - I am contemplating whether to buy this or hold on for a bit in case new clues come to light. I would have thought it highly unlikely that parents would give a home to an unmarried daugher, her "partner" and their child in 1871!! Do you have any views?
Thanks.
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Hi Rosie,
Did you sort this out?
I note the following on FreeBMD:
A Frederick James TEBBS was born Sep quarter 1844 (which fits with the age at death of the Frederick James TEBBS mentioned above)
A Frederick James TEBB (sic) married Sep quarter 1872, Lambeth, Volume 1d, page 618; there is a Mary Ann HARRIS on the same page.
So it seems that the couple may very well not actually have been married at the time of the 1871 census.
A Mary Ann TEBBS age 28, and a Mary Ann TEBBS age 0, died St Saviour, Dec qtr 1872. I wonder if this is your Mary?
In the 1881 census on FamilySearch, there is a Sarah TEBB (sic), age 11 born Lambeth, a Scholar - an inmate at the Lambeth Workhouse.
This could very well be your Sarah.
If both Frederick and Mary were dead, this would explain Sarah's presence in the Workhouse. And perhaps her HARRIS grandparents had also passed away by then.
JAP
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Hello JAP
Actually I had not sorted out the TEBBS and thank you for the information supplied. I have looked at the referneces you have given me and am about to send off for a certificate or two. Cheers for your help. Rosie.
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JAP,
I have sent off for a copy of the marriage cert. I think you have found them as there are only two couples on the reference page - so I think it would be unlikely that there would be a Fr. Tebbs and Mary A Harris that were not a match. The delivery date given was 13.04. I will come back on here once I have the cert to hand to confirm that the details are correct. Rosie
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Hi Rosie,
I'm glad I looked! I hope that it all checks out.
Though it will be sad if it turns out that Sarah ended up in the workhouse having lost her parents and her grandparents.
There are some possible deaths for Samuel & Mary Ann on FreeBMD. Perhaps the most likely are Samuel HARRIS, death, age 71, 1879 Lambeth; and Mary Ann HARRIS, death, age 52, 1871 St Saviour or Mary Ann HARRIS, death, age 61, 1880, Lambeth.
Information about Lambeth Workhouse can be found at:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
and search for Lambeth.
I see that the marriage is on the IGI - in one of those strange 'I' batches which have appeared in recent years.
Frederick James TEBB married Mary Ann HARRIS, 16 Jun 1872, St Mary's Lambeth, Surrey.
Good luck,
JAP
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Again JAP
Thanks. will send off for a couple more certificates next month. I have spent my allocation for April already!! I feel that with the help you have given me, I am able to move again with the HARRIS family. Regards, Rosie
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Hello Jap
I thought that you might be interested to know that I received the marriage certificate between Mary Ann HARRIS and Frederick James TEBB today and it is the correct family. Just as a point of interest, the day and month of the marriage that is given on the IGI is not correct.
I am going to send off for the Samuel Harris death certificate tomorrow. Thank you for your help. Rosie.
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Hi again Rosie,
Thank you for letting us know. It's good that it was the right marriage - I'd have felt guilty if you'd wasted your money ::) Perhaps the date in the IGI might refer to the calling of Banns?
I begrudge paying for English death certificates - they are so uninformative!
As you now know for sure that Frederick and Mary Ann weren't married when Sarah was born, it is possible/probable that Sarah's birth was registered under HARRIS. FreeBMD has, in Lambeth, a Sarah Ann HARRIS Mar qtr 1868 and (more likely) a Sarah Ann HARRIS Jun qtr 1869. However, there are also a Sarah TUBBS Dec qtr 1868 and a Sarah Fanny TIBBS Mar qtr 1870!!
All the best,
JAP
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Thanks Jap
It doesn't get any easier does it. Concerning the IGI, it never occurred to me about the banns.
I have now sent off for the certificate for Samuel and it gives a despatch date of 20 April. Things must be improving at the GRO. The certificate will tell me the place of residence and there is always the chance that the informant might not be his wife but another son or daughter that I don't know about! The births you have found for the three Sarah's (1870) are interesting - I will hold on a bit before sending for any though.
Later on I will send off for the death certificates of the TEBBS as I am interested to learn how and why they all died so young and in such a short space of time. Certainly the HARRIS family in general seemed to have lived very sad and tragic lives. If the references that you found relate to Mary and a new born child then it would seem probable that Mary Ann died in childbirth - maybe.
Thank you for your help. Rosie
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Rosie, it certainly is a sad outcome to what seemed a straightforward request where you might have expected them just to be hiding under a poorly transcribed name - not (as now seems likely) that all except little Sarah had passed on, and Sarah was in the workhouse.
If the dc turns out to be your Samuel, and if the informant is his wife, then that would at least rule out the 52yo Mary Ann HARRIS death Dec qtr 1871 in St Saviour, and leave the more likely (because of the location) 61yo 1880 death in Lambeth.
I had wondered whether the reason 28yo Mary Ann TEBBS & baby Mary Ann TEBBS (if they are yours) were registered in St Saviour might have been that they were in a hospital there and a hospital person might have been the informant of the deaths; the birth is also there in St Saviour - Mary Ann A TEBBS, Dec qtr 1872 St Saviour.
Ah well, I guess you now have the name and occupation of Frederick's father from the marriage certificate and thus some more investigations to do along that line - I hope they are more cheerful.
JAP
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Thanks Jap,
Perhaps the TEBBS had left the HARRIS household and moved to St Saviours? Maybe.
I am holding out for a while with regard the TEBBS as it will not take me anywhere unless I can find Sarah at a later time somewhere. For the time being, I will follow through with the other HARRIS people. Cheers for all your help. Jay
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Thanks all,
I am now convinced that it was Sarah (poor lamb) in Lambeth Workhouse. When I am in a better position to do so, I will see what I can find in the surviving records on that place. It all seems to stop at Lambeth Workhouse.
Rosie.