RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: MarieC on Monday 22 January 07 09:55 GMT (UK)
-
AARRGH!!
Surely I'm not the only Rootschatter whose ancestors have disappeared without trace!
Maybe if we all list them, we'll eventually find the black hole where they are all clustered and laughing at us!
I have two in the nineteenth century. I've looked, Rootschatters have looked - nowhere! Gone!
Edward Martin, London, last found in 1851 census. Wife Mary listed as married, and supporting herself, in 1861 and 1871 - widowed in 1881. Cannot find him, or a death among all the Edward Martins which is him (and I have several wrong death certs!).
Eleanor Bentley, London, last found in 1861 census. No subsequent sign, and no deaths which could be her.
Again, with feeling - AARRGH!!!!
Who are yours?
MarieC
-
Hi Marie
I feel your pain ;D ;D
I have a John Carrington who never died.
It's none of my business, but have you checked out re-marriages for Eleanor Bentley?? I found one of my gg grandmother's remarried 18 years after her first husband died... the clincher was the 2nd husband was a witness at my g grandfather's wedding. So you never know.
Edward might have gone to sea and died out of the UK eg? Or maybe ran off with another woman and changed his name???
Oh, the books we could write, spun from the tales of all our Rootschatter ancestors!!
Heather
-
Hi Heather! :D
Yes, checked for remarriages for Eleanor - none found. Yes, either of the scenarios you mention for Edward, or more, could apply! I've even been tempted to think they ran off with each other!!! :o :o :o I could make a great story out of it all!
When and where was your John Carrington when last heard of?
MarieC
-
What a great topic. There will be a lot of venting here. I have gr-gr grandpa William C. Davis, born between 1851 and 1854 in Princeton, New Jersey (so he says!). I have him on church records when he is conditionally baptised 4 days before his wedding, in 1874. I have him in the 1880 census and 1900 census with his family in Orange, NJ. His wife Bridget (Delia) dies in 1906 and is buried at St. John's, Orange, NJ. No hide nor hair of Willie. We have done paid searches in Princeton for pre-1874 stuff and we can't find him definitively. And after 1900, he has disappeared. And he isn't buried with Bridget.
I also have two of another gr-gr grandfather's brothers, who I have no idea what happened to them. Michael Hayes, born Ireland about 1845, came with parents to England. The family settled in Staffordshire (for one generation). The youngest, George Hayes, b. 1865 in Huntington, is also missing. They are both gone from the 1881 census and that's that. I might have a lead on Michael but it is proving hard to confirm. Apparently, my gg grandfather, James, never spoke of Michael or George, only his other two siblings, Mary Jane (died when she was 15) and John (moved to Australia and we are in touch with his descendants). I wonder if there was a falling out
Kath
-
That's really frustrating, Kath!! As you say, perhaps there was a family falling out. But your gr-gr-grandpa - you have searched thoroughly, and nothing! Where the devil is he?? (Mine are g-g-grandparents, too!)
There's got to be a black hole somewhere...
MarieC
-
Hi Marie
my 3g grandfather, John Carrington, lead miner. His wife Barbra, age 60, is listed as widow on the 1851 Census of Bersham. The youngest child at home is listed as son John, age 17 on the 1851, which indicates that John would have lived until 1832 or so. ::)
John's mother Jane was living in Llandegla in 1841, age 75, at the home of her son Aaron Carrington and family. I've searched the following with no result:
North Wales BMD between 1837 and 1851
1841 census of Llandegla - no other Carrington families - of course most of 1841 for the area is not available
Every page of the death registers available for Carringtons from 1837 to 1851 inclusive
IGI family search
The only conclusion I've come to is that he must have died between 1832 and 1837 and that the burial would be recorded in parish records for Llandegla or other close parishes, but NOT FOUND YET!!! OR he died somewhere else AFTER 1837 other than in Ruthin, Holywell or Wrexham reg districts (highly unlikely) Am sick and tired of ordering death certificates - could paper the powder room wall!! Because I live in Canada it gets very expensive to keep buying PRs looking for just one death. Will just have to hope that if and when the PRs for Wales go on line one day I may find him again. Perhaps he was abducted by aliens! ;D ;D Having said all that someone will probably find him in about five minutes now!! Never mind I'm not proud I just want to find him :D
Kath is right - this is a great topic - there should be a thread for SUPER brickwalls :D Like a confessional!! If nothing else it would provide a place to moan in "private" ::)
-
It was far too easy for men in particular to disappear back in the 1800s ;D ;D
-
Hmmm, Heather!
Think you are right, it is most likely that he died between 1832 and 1837. Do you know if he and his family were C of E?? Otherwise, he could have been buried from a non-conformist church like Methodist.
I know that the C of E in Wales hasn't allowed the LDS to film most of their records, which means that these aren't available to the likes of you and me, which is very frustrating! He is probably languishing in parish records of either the established or a non-conformist church somewhere. Can you persuade anyone to take a look??
A little story to cheer you. I looked for months/years for the marriage of two of my ggggrandparents in the north of England. It nearly drove me round the twist. I got in to the LDS films of all the possible parish records - they were definitely C of E. Didn't find them. But I noticed that the films were of Bishops Transcripts, and that there were a couple of pages missing from one of the really likely parishes, for likely years too. So I pleaded on the appropriate board, and a very kind R/Chatter went to the Records Office and looked at the original PRs - and found the marriage, in a year which was missing from the BTs!!! ;D ;D I was over the moon!
MarieC
-
Thanks for the encouragement ;D ;D I know the family eventually became Wesleyans but back in the 1830s I think they were still C of E.... Part of the trouble is that there were so many of the same name in a relatively small group of villages - so every time I think I've found him it turns out he is not the one!!
BTW the latest Gwynedd Roots magazine says that the LDS have struck a deal to put all the Welsh PRs into digital format so eventually there may be enlightenment :) :)
Heather
-
I have an ancestor who Appeared. My GGrandfather came to Stoke on Trent sometime in the mid 1860s from Canada,I can't find his birth,I can't find him in either the 1851 Canada census or the 1861,he is a mystery..
-
Gosh, Oonagh - that's a problem at the other end of life!! :D ::)
Don't suppose he could have been born or spent time in the US, before going to Canada (and eventually to England)?
MarieC
-
Hi Oonagh
His name wasn't Edward Martin by any chance was it?? ;D ;D ;D Sorry Marie couldn't resist!!
Heather
-
Hi Marie,
I don't know! anything is possible,how do I work it out?
-
No, no, Heather, Edward Martin DISappeared, didn't appear - pay attention!! ::) ::) ;D ;D
Oonagh, I'm not up with US records but I'm sure there are ways to get access to their censuses and bdm records. Hopefully someone from the US will read this thread and tell us! Their 1880 census is on the LDS website but that's too late for you...
Come to think of it, I should probably check for Edward Martin on the US death records if I could find them, just in case... !! ??? ???
MarieC
-
Hi MarieC,
I can empathise with your post! ;D
I have a Great Grandfather, Thomas Louis Newman, who appears on my Grandmother's Birth Cert in 1902, - Occupation 'Comedian' ;D ;D
...& then disappears!! I haven't been able to (conclusively) find any other records for him:-(
According to my Grandmother, he had another wife & family, - but I'm unable to verify this. I've never been able to find any record of him marrying my Great Grandmother, Frances Dyer, - although she calls herself Newman on my G/Mother's Birth Cert, - & her name is given as Frances Newman on her Death Cert.
It is very frustrating!!!
Best Wishes, Romilly.
-
Ouch, Romilly!!
I take it your grandmother can't/couldn't shed any light on his mysterious disappearance!
If he had another wife and family, he could have changed his name or anything!! :( :( :'( :'( :'(
MarieC
-
I have my GGrandfather here in 1871 and 1881,I have pretty good idea he went back to Canada in1886,and died there in 1903!it's his beginnings I would love to know!
-
Well now, I do believe EVERYONE knows of Ernest, who vanished after his birth in 1887 and who reappeared for his marriage in 1912. So I wont bore you with the minutia of the problem. But he's out there somewhere and I can't find him and he's driving me nuts - nuts do you hear me stark raving absatively posalutely NUTS with no hope in sight for what little remains of my sanity . . . ... . La la la !!!
Barbara :o
-
Ouch, Romilly!!
I take it your grandmother can't/couldn't shed any light on his mysterious disappearance!
If he had another wife and family, he could have changed his name or anything!! :( :( :'( :'( :'(
MarieC
Hi MarieC,
Unfortunately that Grandmother died in 1976...& apart from remembering that her father used to 'perform' at the Liberal Club in Greenwich, (I guess that he must have been some sort of Music Hall Comedian/or Stand-Up or something:-) she didn't have any other clues.
However, I do have a photo of him. (Now wouldn't it be funny if another Rootschatter recognised him as one of theirs!!). ;D ;D ;D
Romilly. ;)
-
Barbara,
How did I know you and Ernest would turn up on this thread LOL ??? You ought to briefly set out again where you have looked for him, just in case someone has another bright idea! ;D He's probably with my Edward and Eleanor somewhere, laughing! (You've absolutely demonstrated how mad you are - but I knew that anyway!!! ;D ;D)
Romilly, perhaps you ought to post his photo and name! You never know, you might have a distant cousin here!!! :o :o :o 8) 8)
MarieC
-
Oh I couldn't go through it again Marie 'cos I've looked everywhere for him. Everybody must be bored witless with him by now and if they see his name again in print they'll all go as dooolally as me - and we can't have that now can we!! I can see it now, thousands of RCers walking round the streets of London asking perfect strangers . . .. . . . "Have you seen this man" Nooooo, can't do that!! ::)
Barbara 8)
-
Romilly, perhaps you ought to post his photo and name! You never know, you might have a distant cousin here!!! :o :o :o 8) 8)
MarieC
Hi Again,
I thought I had! But if it hasn't worked...his name was:
Thomas Louis NEWMAN (Approx dates 1860 - 1920).
Best Wishes, Romilly.
-
Oh I couldn't go through it again Marie 'cos I've looked everywhere for him. Everybody must be bored witless with him by now and if they see his name again in print they'll all go as dooolally as me - and we can't have that now can we!! I can see it now, thousands of RCers walking round the streets of London asking perfect strangers . . .. . . . "Have you seen this man" Nooooo, can't do that!! ::)
Barbara 8)
I don't have to ask who you're talking about, Barbara ;D
I've lost my great granddad on the 1861 but I do have him born (1856) and on the 1871 and from then on.
Gadget
-
I have the same problem as you Gadget - my gg grandfather born in 1856 is nowhere to be found in 1861 (nor are his parents, siblings or grandfather) and reappears in 1871. I have spent HOURS and HOURS hunting for them ???
Perhaps we're looking for the same man :o :o
-
I have a George Bishop who slid off into the sunset around 1861 never to be seen again!
There he was - a jolly old ag lab (well, I like to think so!) on the 1851 census, living in Keyingham in East Yorkshire, working on the land and having a copious number of children.
Then - piff paff puff - by the 1861 census, he's gone! His wife Ann and family are still there (she says she is 'married' not widowed) but there is no sign of George. No death to be found, no George anywhere else on the 1861 census (there's a George Bishop in Kings Lynn who was born in the same place as my George, but he's a red herring! for tis not my George but - I think - a cousin.)
There is a clue as to what happened in that Ann has the baptism of her last child - James - on the IGI in 1858 with only her name as the mother; no father's name. Surely, if James was George's son but George had died between conception and birth, his name would still have been entered?
So, did George do a bunk after Ann had done a bunk-up with another man? (Sorry!!)
Or was he abducted by aliens? :-\
Jill
-
There are quite a few EDs missing in the 1861. I heard that it was something to do with the transfer of responsibility from the Home Office to the Registrar General's Office. The HO kept them in poor conditions (and wouldn't hand them over) or they were found in the basement of the Houses of Parliament or something like that ??? ??? ???
Gadget
-
I've got a Robert West (1837-1910) who is buried in Worthing cemetry, together with his wife Harriett Lambert (1834-1910) and a grandaughter Lily (22-Sep-1892 to 25-Jun-1906). The only problem is that Robert and Harriett had no children. I've found them on every census but no trace of any children.
Mysteriously, they reckon they had a son called Charles who was born in Brighton or Worthing in 1856 (it depends which census you are looking at). He turns up for the first time on the 1881 census living in Epsom, Surrey and by 1891 he is married with chidren in Epsom. Meanwhile, Charles daughters are living with their alleged grandparents in Worthing.
How they managed to have grandchildren without having any children of their own is a mystery. ???
downside
-
I've got a Robert West (1837-1910) who is buried in Worthing cemetry, together with his wife Harriett Lambert (1834-1910) and a grandaughter Lily (22-Sep-1892 to 25-Jun-1906). The only problem is that Robert and Harriett had no children. I've found them on every census but no trace of any children.
Mysteriously, they reckon they had a son called Charles who was born in Brighton or Worthing in 1856 (it depends which census you are looking at). He turns up for the first time on the 1881 census living in Epsom, Surrey and by 1891 he is married with chidren in Epsom. Meanwhile, Charles daughters are living with their alleged grandparents in Worthing.
How they managed to have grandchildren without having any children of their own is a mystery. ???
downside
Have you considered getting Charles marriage cert, to see who he names as his father? I know you said that Robert and Harriett had no children; but there is a couple of the right names and ages, in the 1861 census, whom have a two year old daughter Amelia Ellen (she sadly died in 1861).
It is very interesting that Charles names one of his sons Robert Henry!! Also Charles was born 2 to 3 years before Robert and Harriett's marriage in 1858. Possibly born illegitimately, but not by Harriett ???
Anyway hopefully something will turn up for everyone on this thread, I have today, smashed down a brick wall on my husbands side, which has had me stumped for years; the mother of this child having had 5 husbands (that I have found) didn't help!! By the way MarieC, I have you to thank for this, you had a thread on "Genealogy Gods" and you sent some luck; it took awhile to get here, but it was well worth it. Thanks :)
-
Evening all :)
My most elusive (or is that most annoying - because I have let her get to me ;)) is my great grandmother Sarah Rosa Naomi Osburn b Hull 1880. I have her on all census and her birth.
She married Charles Nicholson in 1905 and had my gran in 1914. Alhough my gran was registered as Rhoda Thomas Nicholson her father was actually Henry Thomas (whomever he may be ;)) She left my gran c1919 in (we think) a Catholic orphange in Sheffield!!
I have recently discovered that SRN had four children with Charles that she also abandoned. I am in touch with their children though and we have a reunion planned in a couple of weeks :)
This is the most exciting find I could have ever anticipated and I am totally over the moon - our familes were totally unbeknown to each other and the only shame is that the siblings are no longer around :(
HOWEVER, it doesn't answer the question as to where did the bl**dy woman go ??? ??? ??? ??? ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH ::)
Roll on 2009 ;)
Jo
-
Wow, four children. That is amazing. My ggg grandmother apparently abandoned her daughter, but I don't think she had any other. Maybe I better look into that now.
Kath
-
John Saberton
my only hard evidence for him.
1951 census - Ely St Mary, Camb
Father John 26 b 1825 Barholm Ireland
Mother Mary 22 b 1829 Haverill Sussex
John b 1850 Ely, Camb
1871 Census - Osset West Riding Yorks.
William Saberton 39 b Isleham, Camb. Shoemaker ep 2 men 4 Boys
--------
John Saberton 21 b Ely Camb. Journeyman Shoemaker
Marriage Cert. 23 Dec 1871 Dewsbury
John Saberton 22 Cordwainer of Ossett m Sarah Ann Giggle 18 of Horbury
Birth Cert 1 March 1872 Horbury Lane Ossett
William Saberton father John Saberton (Journeyman Cordwainer) mother Sarah Anne Saberton formerly Giggal - signed with Sarah's mark
Sep 1874 BMD birth Kate Saberton
Dec 1878 BMD birth Emma Saberton
1881 Census. Horbury. Northgate West Yorks
George Giggle 67 b 1834 Horbury Head M Labourer foreman woollen
Harriet Giggle 64 b 1818 HorburyWife M
Sarah A. Saberton 27 b 1854 Horbury, Yorkshire Step Daughter M Rag picker
William Saberton b 1872 South Ossett Grandson
Kate Saberton b 1875 South Ossett Granddaughter
Emma Saberton b 1879 Horbury Granddaughter
(No John !)
Mar 1890 BMD birth Harold saberton
1891 Census. Horbury. Northgate
Sarah A Saberton 37 b 1854 Horbury, Head M Rag sorter
William Saberton 19 b 1893 Ossett, Son S Machine Fettler
Kate Saberton 16 b 1875 Ossett, Daur S Rag sorter
Emma Saberton 12 b 1875 Horbury, Daur S
Harold Saberton 1 b 1890 Horbury, Son
Dec 1895 BMD birth Harry Saberton
1901 Census. Horbury Westfield Rd.
Sarah A Saberton 47 b 1854 Horbury, Head W Rag sorter
Kate Saberton 26 b 1875 Ossett, Daughter S Rag sorter
Emma Saberton 22 b 1879 Horbury, Daughter S Glove Machinist
Harold Saberton 11 b 1890 Horbury, Son S
Alice M Saberton 8 b1893 Horbury, Daughter S
Harry Saberton 5 b 1896 Horbury, Son S
Was the explaination of John not being in many Census' he was a Journeyman or just didnt like census ? Or did Sarah Ann just maintain she was married for appearances ? She finally responded to 1901 census as a widow. If John was the husband and father throughout, he would have died beetween 1896 (when Harry Was born) and 1901 Census.
There were only a half dozen or so John Sabertons in the country - but he is still hard to track down !
-
Kath
I always though it was odd that she was married to Charles 9 years before my Gran was born to a different father!! That she was 33 when she had her yet my Gran was an only child!!
Still it shocked the heck out of us all and was wonderful to boot:) If not bittersweet for a dear old lady who always thought she had no-one!
Jo
-
By the way MarieC, I have you to thank for this, you had a thread on "Genealogy Gods" and you sent some luck; it took awhile to get here, but it was well worth it. Thanks :)
That's great Katherine! I've often wondered if my good luck ever arrived at your place!! I'm so pleased. Could you send some back, please, for my Edward and Eleanor?? I desperately need it!! :( :( :'(
It's comforting to know that others are having the same issues with disappearing ancestors that I am!! Where is this big black hole, that's what I want to know!!! ??? ??? ???
MarieC
-
I have several disappeared ancestors but my favorite is gg uncle James Franklin Ware. He was a prominent lawyer, state congressman and senator in Wisconsin. In about 1895, he suddenly picked up and moved to Galveston, Texas with his wife and daughter. I have no idea why he did so. He can be found in Galveston with his family on the 1900 census but I can't find him in 1910 or 1920. By 1920, his wife was calling herself a widow. Then, in 1930, he was back with his wife. She was listed as the head of household and he was listed as a "lodger", but this was crossed out and replaced with "relative." Where did he go? What was he up to?
-
By the way MarieC, I have you to thank for this, you had a thread on "Genealogy Gods" and you sent some luck; it took awhile to get here, but it was well worth it. Thanks :)
That's great Katherine! I've often wondered if my good luck ever arrived at your place!! I'm so pleased. Could you send some back, please, for my Edward and Eleanor?? I desperately need it!! :( :( :'(
It's comforting to know that others are having the same issues with disappearing ancestors that I am!! Where is this big black hole, that's what I want to know!!! ??? ??? ???
MarieC
Wherever it is Marie, you can bet your booties Ernest is still digging it and inviting others in!!
Barbara 8)
-
I think my cousin and I are getting a little closer to my disappearing William. If I find him I will search his black hole for anyone else. ;D
Kath
-
I have a great uncle who has disappeared of the face of the earth
he appears "married"on the 1881 census but no marriage found, she appears as married on the 1891 and 1901 but not a sign of him anywhere and no death found, several people on here have tried to find him for me but nothing. Where the heck to they go to. ::) ::)
-
There were several major goldrushes in the 1800s. Australia, California, Klondike etc. Reading about them illustrates that up to 100,000 men showed up from all over the world to try to strike it rich. Sadly many of them died or just gave up and never returned to their homelands. Is it possible that at least some of our missing ancestors could have succumbed to gold fever ??
-
Absolutely!
They had to be somebody's rellies!
My own great annoyance is gggrdfather John WEST, stone mason, artificial stone worker, etc. I have him born in Maidstone in 1840 with his family of origin. He appears on all censuses through 1861, married Feb 1864, and has a son Feb. 1865. After that, he is never heard from again. I have trawled all people by this name for decades afterwards, ordered a few certs, checked Australia, but none fits. Wife and child continue with their lives in the same place, and are present and accounted for until death. She never had any more children, and calls her self married hoh for a while, then, finally, widow. My mother recalls a photo of him sitting on the mantelpiece of his son's home; the photo no longer exists. In it, he appeared to her to be a man of about 40 years, but mum was a child or adolescent at the time. Son's marriage, 1889, does not specify if he was living or dead.
In the process of writing this, I have realized that I never sent for the son's birth cert, as I have all the info from elsewhere, but I'm going to do that now, so that I can see who registered the birth, or whether there are any other clues. So, thanks for this thread - it made me think through my problem!
-
That's great Katherine! I've often wondered if my good luck ever arrived at your place!! I'm so pleased. Could you send some back, please, for my Edward and Eleanor?? I desperately need it!! :( :( :'(
MarieC
The good luck is on its way, hopefully it is going to call on everybody else on the way :D
Regards, Kath
You have started a great thread here, it would be great, if we could find some of these elusive people :P
-
Anyone seen James Price? He's listed as deceased on his son's marr. cert.. but I can't find him anywhere.
-
Ozlady,
He's with my William at the corner pub. 8)
Kath
-
There must be quite a crowd down at that corner pub!!!!! :( :( :( >:( Just wait till I get my hands on that Edward!!! ::) ::)
Seriously, Hiraeth, you have made a good suggestion. Gold rushes could account for some of our missing men! 8) I've long ago looked for a death in Australia for Edward Martin, without luck.
My question now is - is there anybody on this thread with access to US death indexes (Ancestry?? I don't know) who would be willing to look for a few people? I'd be very grateful if someone would look for Edward Martin!!
MarieC
-
Well my George Ayrton must be wth them too, he's also down as deceased on daughters marriage but I cant find a death, NOPE (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/boese043.gif)
-
I think we have to remember the context of the times.
1) Religion and moral opinion was used to control the populace. It was extremely important to maintain appearances of propriety.
2) If your father had disappeared into the night one day and never came back it wouldn't be something you wanted to discuss with your future spouse and in-laws at your marriage. Much tidier to say they were dead ;D
3) or to tell the census taker you were a widow, instead of "I don't know where the blankety blank that man got to and I don't care"
4) A married woman had more status in the eyes of the neighbours than a widow or abandoned wife. It also kept other men away. Even today a widow is more attractive to most men than a divorcee ;D Something about their desire to prove themselves - whatever ::)
5) Maintaining the status of marriage was also convenient, in case the spouse ended up with unfortunate results from her own dalliances (if any) :D :D
6) There were huge problems with alcohol. Many people, particularly men were semi-drunk 24/7. So if the odd one fell off the back of the horse on the way home from the pub, they didn't always get found. No tidy little panda cars showing up to search the bushes....
7) I wonder if anyone has done searches for how many death by misadventure verdicts were handed out at inquests when bodies were found. There must have been a fair few of them that were unidentifiable. No picture ID etc.
We have all had the benefit of literacy and relatively healthy living conditions. Most of us would be horrified to see how our ancestors really lived - not just the state of the buildings but the overcrowding, the odiferous drains, the never ending damp inside and outside, the fetid air from coal fires, the constant pregnancies etc. etc. Most of these people were malnourished and had resulting lower IQs and or foetal alcohol syndrome. If that was your lot in life you must have had very little energy or imagination to spare for luxuries like wondering where your abusive old man got to on a dark and stormy. And if you didn't want him back then you wouldn't even look would you??
I guess my point is the movies and period dramas we have all seen are sanitized versions of the real tough conditions the vast majority of our ancestors lived through. For one thing the stories are always weighted towards a quick beginning in rags before the rest of the Cinderally story in riches, EG Jane Eyre, Dickens etc..,
Sorry to run on and hope I haven't depressed you!!! :D :D
-
- not just the state of the buildings but the overcrowding, the odiferous drains, the never ending damp inside and outside, the fetid air from coal fires, the constant pregnancies etc. etc. Most of these people were malnourished and had resulting lower IQs and or foetal alcohol syndrome.
I'm truly not trying to sound facetious, but doesn't it sound like some of the really bad housing estates you read about in the papers today!!! So not much has changed really :-\
Barbara 8)
-
Now that IS a sobering thought :(
I guess the difference today would be, that there would be hope for escaping those conditions, if you really wanted to?? If there isn't - b***dy well should be. Is it that bad on the "really bad housing estates" in the UK?? :( :( :(
Maybe it is - those scavengers in Devon were a wake up call for many people around the world. Certainly many North Americans think of UK in "Miss Marple" terms - too much Masterpiece theatre ;D
-
I'm in Oz Hiraeth, so I only know about them from the newspapers. But you do see them on the TV news with their gangs of hoodies. I wouldn't like to live there it must be terrifying.
Barbara 8)
-
I'm sorry this is a bit off topic but those scenes of people scavenging off the Devon beach, made me feel ashamed to be British. >:( >:(
-
RC MOST WANTED LIST (A NEW THREAD MAYBE??)
Let's summarize the names we have so far:
MarieC - Edward Martin, Eleanor Bentley (careless to lose TWO Marie!!) ;D ;D
hiraeth - John Carrington THE MAN WHO NEVER DIED
oonagh - mystery Canadian
KathMc - William C. Davis, George & Michael Hayes (THREE????) ::) ::)
Romilly - Thomas Lewis Newman (maybe he was a magician as well as a comedian!)
Tephra - Ernest show yourself
jillruss - George Bishop
downside - double virgin birth West ;D
tigtag -Sarah Rosa Naomi Osburn
drodgers34 - John Saberton
Erato - James Franklin Ware
patrish - George Ayrton
loo - John West
ozlady - James Price
Have I left anyone out?? Let's get working - surely to goodness we can find some of these phantoms somewhere ::) ::)
-
MarieC,
When was Edward born and I'll have a look around US Ancestry and see if I come up with anything.
Kath
-
Hi Marie & everyone,
Really interesting topic :)
I too have a couple of ancestors who 'disappeared'. However, the one that bugs me the most is the death of my Great Great Grandmother Amelia BARTON (Rootschatters have tried to help find her in the past).
This is what I have so far for her...
She lived on the Isle of Wight with her husband Barton Ernest BARTON. I have them and their dau. Amy on the 1881. In 1891 I have Barton Ernest with another dau. Fanny at his brother's. His marital status indicated he was married. In 1901 I have Barton Ernest, living in Bournemouth, his marital status indicated he was a widower. There is no sign of Amelia in 1891 or 1901.
Amelia BARTON her last child, a dau. Alice Maude was born May 10, 1886. Her birth was registered in October 1886 by her father. Maybe she died in childbirth? Alice Maude and her three sisters were all bpt on May 28, 1886. The record indicates they were the daughters of Barton Ernest and Amelia of Freshwater. I am assuming she was alive at this point.
Death records have been searched from January 1881 to 1918 and there is no record of her death.
The next step for me is to see if there is a record of her burial at the church where she would have last resided.
I wonder what happened to her ???
Dolly :)
-
MarieC,
When was Edward born and I'll have a look around US Ancestry and see if I come up with anything.
Kath
Thanks a million, Kath!! Edward was born in 1806 in London (Marylebone). He went missing after the 1851 census and his wife is not listed as a widow till 1881. So if you could find any trace, census or death records....! You'd hear the screams of delight all the way from Oz!!! ;D ;D
hiraeth, thanks for summarizing all our disappeared (or appeared) people! Yes, I think we should use our combined intelligences to see if we can find anyone. I agree, I am careless to lose two (reminds me of "The Importance of Being Ernest", eh?)
Dolly, that is VERY frustrating!! I can of course relate to it totally. Yes, I think searching church burial records would be a good idea. Have you looked for any of Amelia's other daughters in the 1891? You say her husband was with one daughter at his brother's. If you can find the other children, it might - just might - provide a clue!! Or have you looked for deaths for them, to see if any of them died? If one of them did die young, and you got the death cert and it was an accident, it might just be that her mum died in the same accident. Just musing and thinking laterally!
MarieC
-
MarieC,
I have had a look around Ancestry. Do you think it likely he would go out to California for the gold rush? I did find an Edward Martin in the 1860 census in Greenwood, El Dorado, California, born England and he is a miner. Let me see if I can find this person in 1870. There really isn't another likely candidate in the 1860 census.
Kath
-
I didn't find anyone in the 1870 census fitting the bill, but there is an Edward Martin in Bodie, Mono County, California in the 1880 census. He is listed as a teamster and miner and a widower. I am not sure how to prove this, but if it helps, here is the link for the county library:
http://www.monocolibraries.org/
They might be able to guide you in the right direction. It very well could be a wild goose chase.
Kath
-
What a novel idea, this forum! I have a disappeared g.grandfather, Frederick Carter. He left Leverington Cambridgeshire in the fall of 1858 for the goldfields in Victoria, Australia and never returned. There were two letters to his wife Sarah, the first describing his sea voyage to Melbourne (he arrived Christmas Day 1858 on the "Royal Charter"). The second letter in Apr. 1859 detailed his adventures in the goldfields at McIvor. He is not listed as a passenger on the Royal Charter.
Have to think that he was deliberately covering his tracks.
-
Keesa,
Do you actually have those letters? What a wonderful thing to have. We have rumor of a letter my gr gr grandfather wrote to family in England in 1888 or '89 and supposedly a few older relatives saw it, but I think if it actually did exist, was burned in my mom's cousin's house fire. He was the collector of that generation.
Kath
-
Hi
What a great idea, i have part family that is missing there are five child that have gone awol and as yet i can find no trace despite RC chasing them for me I would love to know where that black hole is so that I can pull them out.
Vanessa
-
Keesa,
Do you actually have those letters? What a wonderful thing to have. We have rumor of a letter my gr gr grandfather wrote to family in England in 1888 or '89 and supposedly a few older relatives saw it, but I think if it actually did exist, was burned in my mom's cousin's house fire. He was the collector of that generation.
Hi Kath
Yes I actually have copies of the handwritten letters as well as copies of a typed translation that another relative kindly produced some years ago. The second letter is incomplete but there are about 10 pages readable. I keep feeling that the last few missing pages might provide the clues that I need to determine what happened to him, but unable to determine what happened to those pages or who might have them. :'(
Regards Keesa
Kath
-
Cheer up Parish
made me feel ashamed to be British.
The British are really great at nicking stuff.
During the Tudor period our pirates were reclassified as privateers and they really managed to annoy the Spanish by nicking their fully laden treasure ships on the way back from South America - resulting in the Amada.
Our boys did a good job in capturing as many French ships as they could during the Napolionic Wars.
Let's face it we were excellent at nicking other peoples countires e.g. North America, India, Australia, New Zealand and large chunks of Africa etc.
Maybe you missed the episode in the BBC series Coast where they recreated a method of deliberately luring boats onto rocks off the coast of Cornwall. It was a practice the locals used to indulge in from time to time. Salavging and smuggling are part of our heritage.
downside
-
I have four doing the disappearing act...
Murdock Mckenzie, b 1850 in Paisley, married Agnes Ballantyne. By 1881 Agnes is living on her own in Glasgow with the children. No sign of her in 1891, the children are in Liverpool with relatives, no sign of Murdock. In 1895 Agnes emigrates to USA, she is now a widow, children stay in Liverpool, no death record for Murdock.
Agnes remarries in the States c1902. Husband Hubert Wood disappears off the face of the earth (no death record) and she is on her own again by 1910.
Is she putting them under the patio do you think?
We can track Agnes right up to 1930 in Massachusetts then....nothing!
Finally, Dorothy Boyd b 1860 in Liverpool reportedly went into the Asylum some time after 1895 but she didn't die..... or I can't find the record.
Any ideas??
-
ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh wow liverpool lass that is quite a list - I think your AWOT (Ancestors WithOut Trace) cases need to go to the top of the list of RC Most wanted! ;D ;D
You don't just need help - you need an INTERVENTION ::)
Wasn't there a woman in the States a few years ago they called the "black widow killer" because her husbands kept on dying and/or disappearing ???;D I'm not sure but I think she is now on death row ???
-
Yes, hiraeth,
I think Liverpool Lass takes the prize so far!!! ;D ;D ;D I'm sure she doesn't think it's a laughing matter, though! Was Agnes a murderer?? ??? ???
Kath, thanks for having a look around for Edward Martin!! He can't be found in England or Australia between 1851 and 1881, so I do wonder if perhaps he did get gold fever and go to California!! Just a few questions of clarification, if I may:
* was the age of the man you found on the two censuses right for someone born in 1806?
* was the one found in 1880 born in England?
* did the 1860 census say he was married?
* are there any death indexes that could be checked?
This could be a wild goose chase, or it could be him, depending on if the details stack up. It's starting to get really interesting for me!
Thanks again, Kath!! ;D
MarieC
-
It is frustrating! Agnes did lie about her age quite often but I can't really imagine she bumped them off. ;D ;D Murdock may have died at sea but I can't find the ref if he did. My old mum seems to think Hubert was struck by lightning :-\ but I've googled and searched newspapers to no avail.
-
MarieC,
In 1860, this Edward was born in 1804. There is a column on the 1860 census that states "married within the last year" and every last person on the page is checked. I take it to mean everyone is married and not that they physically married within the last year. ???
The 1880 has him born about 1800 in England. I do believe, whether he is your Edward or not, the 1860 and 1880 Edwards are the same people. There actually weren't a lot of Edward Martins from England in the census.
The death records for California that are on Ancestry miss the years we would need for this. The problem becomes, even if you found this person's death date and ordered a cert, would there have been anyone around who would know the information to give for the cert. I am not sure if there is a way to confirm this.
Does anyone else have any ideas?
Kath
-
Thanks very much for that, Kath!!! ;D ;D
I take your point absolutely. Finding stuff is hard enough, proving it will be much harder! Grrrr!
Mariec
-
Hi MarieC & KathMc
What about checking Passenger Lists between 1851 to 1860 for Edward ?
Another thought - can you check to see if the California Edward Martin is shown on the US 1850 census. If he appears on there, then the odds are he is not MarieCs Edward. I believe you said you had him on the UK 1851 MarieC??
-
What about checking Passenger Lists between 1851 to 1860 for Edward ?
Another thought - can you check to see if the California Edward Martin is shown on the US 1850 census. If he appears on there, then the odds are he is not MarieCs Edward. I believe you said you had him on the UK 1851 MarieC??
Hi hiraeth
Great minds think alike - I waded into the morass of passenger lists tonight but came up gasping for air! I am not familiar with passenger lists to the US and there are so many websites! And many of them seem to lead back to Ancestry, to which I do not have a sub. I'm not sure what port he would have landed in either, if he DID go there. I didn't find him, but that certainly doesn't mean he isn't there! Will have another look sometime when my head has stopped whirling...
Your second idea is a great idea! I do have Edward on the 1851 English census, so if the other one shows up in California 1850 it is not him. It would be great if Kath could check that!
MarieC
-
Ancestry had a freebie access period over Christmas . Perhaps they will do it again and/or someone on RC has a subscription. I find them confusing as well ???
This link to National Archives looks like it might be good. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/searchthearchives/migration.htm?homepage=news
However, at the moment they say only 1890 -1899 is available, so not much help with the California goldrush 1850 plus time period. :'(
He could have landed on the East Coast and gone by land, but many of them I understand took other boats to places like New Orleans and sometimes boats round again to San Francisco. Maybe try boats directly to San Francisco first?? You could also do some research on line about the goldrush as there may be more specific info on how the majority arrived?
Talk about needle in a haystack ::) Never mind, where there's life there's hope - at least you have a lead to chase now, thanks to your starting this thread ;D
Heather
-
MarieC
Another thought. Can you check US immigration records versus Passenger Lists. It would be good if you could check only California ones??
Heather
-
Hi Hiraeth,
I have an Edward Martin in my tree in Oxford but it's probably not him ;) ???
DJ
-
Hi DJ
Actually it is MarieC who has the missing Edward Martin. The details are on the early posts of this thread. :)
H
-
sorry, i should have looked at the beginning and shouldn't be doing this whilst at work ! ;)
No it's not my Edward .
Hope you all have a great weekend :)
DJ
-
I have been looking for Benedict Blundell for ages! Born 1860 in Studley he is last seen with his family in Birmingham in 18981, In 1901 his wife Mary and is calling herself a widow. I went through the completer deaths (and no he's not the William Bendict Blundell dying in Solihull in 1900- he is someone completely different). When I raised it with the family sis got her notes out about the family written by my late uncle and his notes were" they got fed up with each other and rumour has it he has gone to the goldfields". I then discovered that his brother Joseph Born 1865 was also in the 1891 Census with his wife and family but in 1901 his wife Jessie (admittedly she is still calling herself married but head of household) is with the children without him Coincidence? No sign of a death here either.
-
. If John was the husband and father throughout, he would have died beetween 1896 (when Harry Was born) and 1901 Census.
drodgers
I looked through deaths 1895-1901, as I am sure you have done already, probably many times! to no avail, of course.
But I would think some more detective work could be done via the children. It might be worth getting little Harry's birth cert to see what it says about father - is it John Saberton? or John Saberton (dec'd), or someone completely different?
By the way, Harry was born Oct/Nov/Dec 1895, Wakefield area, ref 9c 69
-
and a grandaughter Lily (22-Sep-1892 to 25-Jun-1906). The only problem is that Robert and Harriett had no children. I've found them on every census but no trace of any children.
You're very self controlled - if this was mine i just would so have to send for Lily's birth cert to find out who her parents were!
modified; I have just looked for her birth, she was not born locally. Possible candidates are:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1892 Gainsboro area
Jul/Aug/Sep 1892 Hartlepool area
Oct Nov/Dec 1892 Leeds area
Oct/Nov/Dec 1892 Amersham area
It would be good to find each of these 9 year old Lily's on the 1901 census. If the one buried with Robert & Harriett wasnt with them in 1901, she must have been somewhere.
Another idea is to look for wills for Robert and Harriett - often they are good at sorting out families - could well mention any children if there were any.
Also have you got their death certs? Who registered the death? maybe a son or daughter? or another grandchild? who knows.
I'm a trifle confused (I've probably missed something obvious) as to why you think a random Charles who turns up in 1881 in Epsom could be their son?
-
I hadn't found Edward in the 1850 census, but I did just go back to double check ;D. Still not there. Phew. I did find him just now in the 1870, listed as E. Martin, still in Greenwood. This time his birth is listed as 1810 and he is listed as widowed. I don't have time now, but over the weekend I will take a look at the passenger lists and see what I can come up with for him. I think if you want to rule him out though, best to find the death date and get a cert. And then hope something is actually on it.
Kath
-
Hi All,
What a fascinating thread this has turned out to be! (I have been following it all with interest).
I am hoping that the 1911 Census (whenever it becomes available) will solve some clues for me.
Best Wishes, Romilly.
-
Thanks a million, Kath and hiraeth, for your help and thoughts!
Hiraeth, the passenger list sites I was able to look at didn't have boats coming into San Francisco. Just ports on the east side. New York seems to have been the biggest, so I suppose it is the most likely! I don't know if it's possible to check US immigration records, but I will have a Google and see what I can find!!
Also, the outgoing UK passenger records may or may not be useful. 1890 onwards is too late for all my folks, except one couple. A kind Rootschatter checked for that couple on findmypast.com, but the information is so sketchy and vague that I can't determine if it is them or not!! :'( :'( :'( And there is no word that the records are going to go earlier than 1890.
Kath, thanks for checking the 1850 census. The fact that he is not there still leaves this person "in the frame" to be possibly mine! I'd be grateful if you'd have a look at the passenger lists - as I say, I didn't come up with anything. If he went, it would have been the 1850s, and his daughters were withdrawn from their school in 1855, so that is when poverty and an absent husband/father began to impact the family in England. I don't know how to check US death records but will have a Google!
MarieC
-
MarieC,
I had a look around the passenger lists but didn't find anything that fit. Obviously an Edwrad Martin of about the right age came from England at some point, but I couldn't find him. Again, I don't think much information is given on those either.
I think they do this on purpose. He's up there right now (wherever there is) having a good old hoot with my William. "Look at those ladies run around! They'll never find us."
Kath
-
Would you tell them to give Ernest a nudge please Kath - so he can tell me where he vanished to.
Barbara 8)
-
They don't appear to be listening to me. >:( I'll try. I ask my dad up there to kick them in the pants. My cousin has a theory that my William isn't up there. :o Ha. See, I know there is a story behind him.
Kath
-
Where ever they are, they've got a malicious streak in them I think. The all need a good talking too. ;D
Barbara 8)
-
MarieC,
I think they do this on purpose. He's up there right now (wherever there is) having a good old hoot with my William. "Look at those ladies run around! They'll never find us."
Kath
Sigh!! :( :( :'( :'( Thanks for looking anyway, Kath. You are absolutely right about the above, and when I get there (wherever there is), there is going to be HUGE trouble for Edward! He'll be sorry he did this!!!!
Since my last post, I looked for US immigration records - but they seem to be the same as passenger lists - and for death records, but they only seem to be online from about 1905, except for Ancestry, but as you didn't find him on there, Kath, I think this is a lost cause too. That may well be my Edward, but I don't know how I will ever prove it!!
MarieC
-
I have another one who just appeared. Thomas Ford/e who married my grandmother Ethel Main (so they say - but there's no record of their marriage!) in 1919. I have been searching for 15 years for something about him.
All I have is his death certificate, filled in by my uncle. He was supposedly born in Roscommon, Ireland in 1873/5 and came over here on his own when he was young. He told them that he joined the army, the Coldstream Guards (again no record of him there) and that he met my grandmother while they were in service after the war.
I have checked the 1891 and 1901 census for him, nobody that matches his birthplace, year etc and where he would have been.
On my uncle's birth certificate in Glasgow (where they briefly lived) they said on the bottom that they married in London in 1919, no record.
She was 20 years younger than him, so I presume he had another life before her, maybe another family, and maybe changed his name.
This brick wall has kept me going for such a long time - I'm now banging my head on it!!!
Rosemary
-
Ouch, Rosemary!!
That is a tough one. Sounds as though he could have told a few porkies and perhaps changed his name, which will make him extraordinarily difficult to find!! I wonder if he really did marry your grandmother, or not?
Did they have any other children, apart from your uncle, who you could try to trace?
Another one who'll be sitting up there laughing at us!
MarieC
-
Hi Marie
There was only my uncle and my mam, and I have both their birth certificates. My mam was born in Newcastle, where they settled.
He must have been in the army, because my mam remembers a nurse trying to contact him about his army medals. The letter had been on the go for years before finally finding him, and she was with him when he rang her about them. He was injured in the war, lost a finger and toe on one side of his body. He had shrapnel in his head, and had awful headaches. But I've tried every regiment, that he might have been in. It's a long story, but I still think he changed his name at some time - for what reason I don't know.
I checked all the marriages at that time for Ethel Main (who I had no problems finding on the censuses). I really don't think they married - possibly because he was strict catholic, and she was strict protestant/methodist.
One of these days, I'm hopeful something will turn up. The medals are no longer around, either stolen years ago, or pawned. He is the main reason I started looking into my family history - thinking I would have no problems. I've found hundreds of family members in both mine and my husband's tree - but the elusive Thomas Ford/e remains unfound!!!
Rosemary
-
Well, we all need a challenge, I suppose, Rosemary!! And all of us on this thread certainly have them!!! ::) ::) ::)
MarieC
-
Hi all
What a fascinating thread! I have a few elusive ancestors too!!
Namely:-
Newton Harrison (my 4x gt grandfather) born 1770/71, where i don't know! i have his marriage and death records both in Worcestershire. (He married Catherine Hudson in Throckmorton on 20th March 1794 and was buried on 28th April 1820 in Bricklehampton aged 49.) Been trying to find his birth for about 10 years now!! arghhhhh!
My 3x gt grandfather Francis/Francois Xavier Bauer born 1811/12 in Germany. Where in Germany? Your guess is as good as mine!!! I have him on the 1851 to 1881 censuses as he died later in 1881 and his nauralization papers. He arrived in this country possibly via France in 1840. I don't have him on the 41 census. For place of birth on censuses or the naturalization papers he just states Germany or Subject of the German Empire! Helpfull Not!!
And lastly my Hill family from Scotland, who seem to disappear, reappear and then disappear again never to be heard from again!
James Hill (poss born in 1781) married Elizabeth Aitcheson (baptised as Betty in 1773) on 8th April 1803 in Dunbar. They Then disappear for a period of 16 years before reappearing in 1819 in Yetholm, Roxburghshire when their son Ninian Hill was born 18th July 1819 and my 3x gt grandfather George Hill was born 14th December 1821, then vanishing never to be heard from again.
Ninian married Mary fox in 1845 in Greenla, Roxburghshire and appears on the 1851 census in Morebattle in the same county, 3 daughters are born to Ninian and Mary between 1848 and 1852, whereupon the whole family disappears without trace!!
George Hill (my 3x Gt grandfather, as mentioned above) i have him right through his life, there are some censuses that he isn't on, buthis being a Master Mariner explains that anomaly, now i have George and his wife Isabella living seperately on the 1901 census, (George in a nursing home in Whitley Bay,Northumberland), Isabella dies in 1906 and on her death cert she is shown as a widow, you would be forgiven for thinking that therefore george died between 1901 and 1906, but if he did, there isn't any record of it!! There is a George Hill shown in the death registers for the Morpeth area but that isn't my George Hill, i have looked in the death registers i think about 10 years either side with no luck whatsoever! I can't find him on the 1891 census either!! Arghhhhhhh!!
Is it any wonder that my hair has got distinctly thinner since i started researching my family history nearly 17 years ago!! (No it isn't since i'm always pulling it out in frustration! lol!)
Regards
David
-
Loads of mine have done a bunk! My great-grandmother for one: born Eliza Mona Thompson in 1897 in St Saviour Southwark, rashly married Henry Thomas Phillips - NOT the sort of bloke any parent would want their daughter to end up with - had two sons by him before he died, cornering the market in all kinds of 'orrible diseases involving lesions on his feet, aged 42. Last seen in 1953 after her younger son's death, visiting her grandson (my Dad) with a gift. Never heard from again by my Dad (whose mum and other grandma didn't like his dad's family and didn't want them visiting).
Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to find exactly the right Eliza Phillips, with no clue where or when she died? I too have started searching for marriages but am faced with the same problem: she could have remarried anywhere, any time.
And my great great grandfather's adoptive grandmother had a mysterious Disappearing Husband. She had three children, Josiah Green, Walter James Green and Martha Ann Green, by James Green a merchant. They lived in Lee, Kent in the 1840s. I can't find a record of Martha and Walter's birth (they were twins) in 1840, and the census returns for 1841 and 1851 show Ann as married, not widowed. Another tantalising mystery, since Ann and James would probably have married before 1837, is that in the 1851 census, Ann has a 21 year old NIECE, Rachael Stanton, staying with her! So a possible clue to her maiden name, only Rachael is turning out to be as much of a mystery as her aunt's husband. Can't track the girl forwards or backwards, although I've found a couple of possible marriages in 1855 and 1867, to either John Eagleston or Louis Schmidt, or Christian Rieman. I've tried searching for these men in subsequent censuses but no luck again!
I'm starting to feel persecuted! ???
-
Join the club MrsLizzy. Persecuted Anonymous. :D
Kath
-
Yahooo! Replying to this thread made me have another go at my Dorothy Boyd. No luck, so I posted a plea on RC. Karenlee replied with a possible Death ref! Amazing! Keep your fingers crossed.
-
Good luck liverpool lass. Here's hoping for one less brick wall in this world.
Kath
-
I had all my family accounted for in the 1851 census except for one family, Joseph Simpson, his wife and one son. Looked at every possibility but to no avail.
I found his second son's birth in Yorkshire in 1852 so I was sure he had to be there somewhere.
I knew that in 1855 he had travelled to Australia with his brothers, and his wife and 2 children followed later.
I took a punt and tried shipping, turns out he, his wife, and 1st child came to Australia for a couple of years and then went back to England where they had their second child. And of course came back to Australia.
so my advice is, if all else fails - try the shipping records ;D
Margaret
-
Reading through this thread makes me think of a visit i made a year or two ago to the London Metropoitan Archives.
I was looking through the burial registers of a Parish in the London Dockland area. I remember being amazed and horrified at the time by the number of entries such as 'unknown body found in the Thames' and 'unidentified male washed up in the Thames' etc.
Obviously this area was where anyone who fell, jumped or was pushed into the river finally came to shore.
The thing that horrified me was the quantity of these entries - not just the odd one or two, but one being buried every few days.
Not only was I saddened to think of so many families who had lost someone and never knew of what happened to the body, but it did also occur to me that these people must all be on someone's family tree, and nowadays some poor person is probably hunting high and low for any information as to what happened to them - as far as records went they just 'disappeared' !
-
Can I join "Persecuted Anonymous" too???
David and Mrs Lizzy, aaargh!!! At least this thread is a kind of therapy - makes me realise there are heaps of other people in the same boat! Inconsiderate wretched lot, these ancestors!! >:( >:( >:(
Liverpool lass, do let us know if you crack through that brick wall! At least then we can chalk up one success!! :) :)
Lizdb, your post is most sobering. I wonder how many of our missing people met this kind of fate. I have seen the odd entry or two like this on burial records I've looked at, but didn't realise there were so many in London! :( :( :(
MarieC
-
Can I join too please??
I may have helped liverpool lass with her Dorothy, but the big question is can anyone help me with Charles RUFF ?? ;D
I have his birth in Weybridge Surrey, I have his marriage in Melbourne Australia, I have the births of his three children - the last 2 in NZ - but no death.
The last word on Charles was in Auckand NZ in about 1845 when he was involved in a court case over the malicious damage of a boat he was building by some crazed woman with an axe (no not his wife, nor a relative of mine as suggested by my loving husband at the time I discovered this newspaper clipping).
By 1847 Charles' wife Annie had become the "housekeeper" of a Henry HELLYER and had the first of 8 children with him.
There were stories told by the HELLYER family that Charles had gone back to Scotland after the death of his parents to put things in order, but he never made it as the boat sank. First problem being that Charles was not from Scotland, but his wife Annie was. Second problem was that I have the death's of both Charles' parents, and his elder brother James Jackson RUFF was listed as Executor of both of their Wills.
There is no mention of Charles in the NZ death Indexes, although that early on in the administration of the country it was a bit rough and ready, and some things never made it to the Official Books.
I have not found anyone that matches him in the Death Indexes for Queensland, NSW, Victoria, Tasmania or South Australia.
I even got desperate and checked the UK census and Death Indexes just in case there may have been a kernel of truth to the "going back home" story. No passenger list containing him leaving NZ, arriving anywhere, or sinking.
The large scar on my forehead is testament to the frustration this man has thrust upon me. I have tried to ignore him and just give up, but that's a bit like letting him win -- and we can't have that can we??
Thanks for letting us all vent
Karenlee
-
My gr grandfather Robert Main did a disappearing act for twenty-seven years. I have his birth certificate from 1854, he was born in Great Cressingham, Norfolk.
He doesn't turn up again until 1881, living with his mother and her third husband. She had been widowed and married twice since he was born. Robert's dad James died the year he was born.
I've tried every variation of his name, age etc, but nothing. I thought I had found him in an orphanage with just the initials R M. But the kind people searched their records, and no luck.
At least he had the decency to come back for the 1881 census, because he married my gr grandmother shortly after. Wherever he went, I hope he enjoyed it, and it was worth it, to leave all these gaps!! How inconsiderate.
Rosemary
-
Oh dear, karenlee!!
There must be an awfully big black hole somewhere where all these people are hiding!!! :( :( >:( >:( I do sympathise - my Edward Martin has caused me just as much angst!
All I can think of is that the crazed woman, or one of her relatives, got to him and threw him into a river or the sea - perhaps to be washed up as an unknown body (like lizdb was talking about), or perhaps found but for some reason didn't make it into the official death records. You have a fairly narrow window of time before his wife was living with this other fellow. Have you searched the NZ papers of the time to see if there is any account of a sudden or violent death (anonymous or otherwise), or any death notice? That's all I can think of, I'm afraid.
Rosemary, I just have no idea where that Robert Main could have got to! He was too young to have gone to sea in 1861. His mum didn't have any relatives in Ireland, where censuses are lacking, where he could have been for awhile, I suppose??
These ancestors are really for it when we finally get to where they are!!! >:( >:( >:(
MarieC
-
MarieC
In NZ that early on there were only 2 possible newspapers that would have reported such events, and thanks to a wonderful website called Papers Past I have been able to read just about all of them for the year or so that fits. Even the Supreme Court records for the trial regarding crazed axewomen and boats were destroyed - just my luck. There was a newspaper article about it however and I know that the axewoman was much poorer after the event.
Strangely enough the father of Henry HELLYER, who Charles RUFF'S wife ran off with, was found dead in a boat in Auckland and was the subject of an inquest which I have been lucky enough to read. It is because of his death that Henry ended up in NZ. It was found that the accident had something to do with too much alcohol and a large tree branch.
My Mum died about 3 years ago and I did ask her before she left us to try and find some way to point me in the right direction with some hard to find rellies. Perhaps I should have asked her to give them all a good talking to. Guess I'll have to do it myself when I eventually get there too.
Karen
-
Mine dissapear in 1881 and return in another county in 1891. I've posted on the census board just in case it's my eyes and brain going a bit dizzy but no-one has replied :'(
In my head they had just packed up their troubles and were in transit when the enumerator called ;)
-
Here's one black hole: type in Unknown in the surname box on FreeBmd. I did it for one year for 1881 and got pages. Depressing, I know. :'(
Gazania
-
Karen
I think your rellies are resisting your mum's attempts to make a link with you. I'm sure some of these people just don't want to be found!! :( :( :( :( :'( :'(
Wheeldon, I often wonder how many people eluded the enumerator, for whatever reason!
Gazania, that IS very depressing!! :( :(
MarieC
-
Marie
I wouldn't think there were Irish rellies Robert went to, most of the families go back years in Norfolk, but you never know.
He was maybe placed with a family who changed his name, then decided when he was old enough to go back to his family name
Anyway I won't give up, I hate unsolved mysteries!!
Rosemary
-
dont give up everyone. remember my dorothy mcloughin? just got the death certificate for the ref karenlee found and its her! thanks again x
-
Congrats Liverpool Lass. There's hope for all of us.
Kath
-
That is so great liverpool lass. So pleased that it all worked out, but did it tell you anything that can lead you forward??
Cheers
Karenlee
-
These are a couple of my brickwalls !
In 1842 Zachariah Tricker married his third wife - Sarah Hemming - St. Mary, Lambeth.
In 1844 baby William Zachariah was born.
In the 1851 census Zachariah has a new ' wife ' - Susan.
They are together in the 1861 and 1871 census but in the 1881 Zachariah is a widower.
Can find nothing further on either Sarah or William - not even a death. Same with Susan - no death............
Guess I'll just have to keep on keeping on. Any suggestions most welcome.
P.S. All of these events took place in the Southwark area.
-
I haven't really taken it in yet! We now know when she died and what of. The sad thing is, she outlived her husband by 9 years. When she died they didn't know his christian name to put it on the cert. By this time her son was married with 4 children and her youngest daughter was about to be married. We did find out that she went to the Lancaster Asylum from the Union Workhouse in Liverpool so I suppose we could follow the records. Would she have been in the workhouse because she had 'milk fever'? I don't think they could have been destitute as the children were living with her mother in law and brother in laws family. More questions I'm afraid but at least we know what happened to her. Now where did husband Domenick go??
-
Isn't that the truth: For every answer, so many more questions... :P
Kath
-
Would we have it any other way Kath?? If we had all the answers it wouldn't be any fun at all. The thrill of the chase and all that you know ;)
-
I have relatives I simply cannot find, from just the last century! My mother had 3 brothers, 2 of whom died in the 1970's and left families I have never met.
Thomas Newton, b 20 Sept 1913, reg in Birkenhead, d in 1977 in Wallasey. He had several strokes and died in hospital I believe.
Maurice Newton, b 21 Oct 1920, reg Birkenhead, d 5 (?) Jan 1972 in Birkenhead. I believe he died of a heart attack.
Both men were married, and I am pretty certain they had children. But I can't seem to find anything!
This is very frustrating, as my parents are both dead, and my sister and I have no extended family whatsoever.
Thanks for this thread. It's going to come in handy, at least for venting!!!
Kathleen
-
Kathleen
Have you got the death certificates for the brothers ? That should give you a starting point. If you have details post them and I will try and trace them.
Glen
-
Hi Kathleen
Since you have some details on these deaths, have you checked for a death notice or obit in the relevant newspapers. They should be held in the Library of the town or city where the deaths occurred. I will check the Marriage Index and see if I can find anything on these men for you.
Cheers
Karenlee
-
Well done, Karenlee and liverpool lass!! That's great news!
Kathleen, that's really sad! I hope the others can help you find your uncle's families, so that you will have extended family. What a joy that would be!! Keep us in touch with this.
MarieC
-
Thomas Newton, b 20 Sept 1913, reg in Birkenhead, d in 1977 in Wallasey. He had several strokes and died in hospital I believe.
Maurice Newton, b 21 Oct 1920, reg Birkenhead, d 5 (?) Jan 1972 in Birkenhead. I believe he died of a heart attack.
Here are the references so you can get death certs - hopefully deaths will be registered by widow or children to give you a start:
Thomas Newton (d-o-b given as 20 Sept 1913) death registered in Apr/May/Jun quarter of 1977, wallasey reg area, ref 37 0965
Maurice Newton (d-o-b given as 21 Sep 1920) death reg in Jan/Feb/Mar 1972 in Birkenhead area ref 10a 9
With the more unusual name of Maurice you may find his marriage just by trawling through the marriage indexes from about 1940ish onwards, then once you have wife's maiden name try for children in the birth indexes in the same way. I recently had success by this method, when all I had for someone was there death cert with death registered by a son-in-law - sa Ll I knew was that he probably had a daughter!
-
OK not such a cool idea - I started looking 1940-41 and already 4 or 5 Maurice Newton marriages! More of a popular name than I thought! None in that area though, might be worth pursuing to see if any in Birkenhaed/Liverpool/Wallasey area
-
Thanks all of you for responding! I have had the same troubles looking up on BMD indexes, and will have to go thru Mom's old letters for more details. I am hoping to gleen a spouse's name for both uncles from letters my aunt Hilda wrote.
Can you tell me where to order death certs from? I live in the US.
Thanks again all! I really am enjoying this site.
Kathleen
-
Kathleen,
How exciting to have old letters to look at. I have a couple, but not nearly as many as I would like and I find something new almost every time I look at them.
Kath
-
Ditto lizdb's message. Was even more overwhelmed by the number of Thomas's that I found.
Not being in the UK myself, I find that the best way to get certificates is to use the GRO's own website. It has provision for Credit Card payments for overseas users. The site is easy to navigate and very secure. Over the past year or so I have been really happy with their service and commitment to me as a customer. AND they are really quick unlike some of the govt. depts here in Australia.
Cheers
Karenlee
-
I'm looking for the death record of John Jarman Copeland born 1855 in Melbourne, Australia and who died (I'm told by relatives) around 1912 in the Middlesex, London area.
On my G/grandmother's (1922 now a widow for 10 years) 2nd marriage certificate she states she became a widow 17 March 1913. I have reason to believe it was probably 1912 though.
Anyway I cannot find a death record that fits for this John Copeland for 1910 to 1915. The man has simply disappeared.
Cheers, Kevin
-
Hi Kevin
There is a John J COPELAND died Dec Qtr 1915, aged 62, Wandsworth 1d 891. If your John was born about 1855, then this is pretty close. Might this be him??
Cheers
Karenlee
-
Hi Karenlee, many thanks for taking the time to search for John Jarman Copeland. I will chase that one up. Does it give any other additional information? Like name of wife, etc.
My G Grandmother migrated to Australia (I'm told by relatives who might be mistaken) AFTER the death of John Jarman Copeland. My G Grandmother, with two sons, one my 14 year old Grandfather, arrived in Melbourne aboard the SS Aryshire in November 1912. So I'm looking for a death around March 1912, but it is possible the 17 March 1917 date is correct as per the Marriage Certificate.
Cheers, Kevin
-
Hi Kevin
This information came from the FreeBMD website, so there is no other information. The only way to really know is to get the certificate and see if his wife is the one who gave the information at his death.
Cheers
Karenlee
-
Hi all!!
This thread IS a great idea :D
I have a couple of extremely elusive ancestors (well they are my husbands actually but I have been searching for them for long enough that they feel like my own!!)
For one of them I only have a name and occupation (as per his daughter's marriage cert). I can only guess as to place of origin and age. He is James McKenzie, Stoneman presumably of Scotland, possibly Ross/Cromarty also presumably born c 1780.
The other is James' daughter Elizabeth born c1815 Cromarty Scotland (according to England census records). I have her marriage certificate, birth certificate her of daughter, and death date but no certificate obtainable so far for her death.
Well I guess there are probably a few others but those 2'll do for now!! :D They are really driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a couple of possibles for Elizabeth's birth in Scotland...... but I can't be too certain as there are no certificates available....
Chris in Auz
-
Can you tell me where to order death certs from? I live in the US.
Thanks again all! I really am enjoying this site.
Kathleen
You can order BMD certs online at http://www.findmypast.com/OrderCertificate.jsp they cost £7,don't know how much to post abroad I'm afraid,but they do provide that service.
Good luck
Carol
-
The other place you can get English bmd certificates is from the Government Register Office - www.gro.gov.uk
Chris, I'm not clear why you can't get Elizabeth McKenzie's death cert. Did she die before civil registration began in Scotland? Or if she lived in England and appeared in an English census, this would be after civil registration began there, so you should be able to get a death cert if you want one. Bearing in mind that death certs often don't tell you much.
MarieC
-
MarieC, I do have a contact in the uk who is looking at certs for me....... the problem is I haven't been able to find a registration date for it. At least not one that I can be sure of. There are a couple of possibilities. Also her married name was Harris. Her husband, James Harris, died in 1874. On his/their tombstone his date of death is clear yet hers is not. His is given as May 1 1874 and hers as May 7 age 69.... so there is some confusion there. Given that she was born c1815 (going by census records and her marriage certificate) 1874 doesn't seem likely.......... more likely is 1883/4.
There are a couple of candidates for her as I said, which are being investigated but I am not too hopeful........
I am also going to get James' death cert which may help a bit. I am sure of his origins (Hatfield Peverel, Essex) which may or may not help with regards to Elizabeth's details.
One reason for the difficulty with dear Elizabeth is that there is some confusion within the family as to her origins. The family story is that she was a Spanish Gypsy............. but the dates that she is in England (1851 census for starters, as well as marriage cert etc) don't gel with the family story of coming to England aroung 1862ish.....from Spain.
:D
Chris in Auz!!
-
Chris,
You just have to love the family rumors. There's a whole thread on that topic. Great reading.
Kath
-
Everyone has a Black Sheep/Skeleton in the Cupboard, and this one is mine:- my great Grandfather Walter SCOTT, born 6 October 1867, in Christchurch, nr. Upwell, Cambs.
As far as my Dad knows from family talk, on the day that Walter disappeared, ihe had taken some of his father's cattle to market in King's Lynn, Norfolk, sold them, banked the money for his father and was never seen again!
When Walter did his "runner"- in about 1904 - he was alledgedly accompanied by the local school mistress (who is supposed to have disappeared on the same day) or by the family nursemaid - BUT he left behind a wife and 3 young children; the eldest being my grandmother, Grace.
As I posted this on the Emigrants Board yesterday, here is the link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,213733.msg1107724.html#msg1107724
or you can read my about Walter on my website:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cawthorn/SCOTT/walter&annie_maria.html
but this page needs updating.
Any ideas anyone?????
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/anniemcc/smilies/Cheers.gif) Ann
-
What an interesting story, Ann!
He's a bit different in that most of our ancestors probably didn't deliberately disappear, but he did!
With a common name like that, and the possibility that he could have gone to a number of countries, he will be SO hard to find! (It's even possible that he could have changed his name at some stage, to avoid being found!!) The Australian states and Canadian provinces all have their own bmd systems, all different, and varying widely in their availability for searching (including whether indexes are on the Internet!) And there are ten Canadian provinces and six Australian states, and this isn't even mentioning New Zealand.
I think you are right; the only way forward is to put his details out there in as many places as possible, and hope to find his descendants wherever it was that he did a runner to!!
Couldn't you just strangle them?? ::) ::) :o :o :o
MarieC
-
GGGG Grandfather, Edward Gaunt married Mary, probably 1810-1815. No record of it on the IGI. She died before 1837 as Edward remarried (thankfully) on the 2nd of July 1837 - the first marriage record at the church after the act. Now if only I could find out who Mary was... all I know is that her name is Mary. I know something must exist somewhere.
Andrew
-
GGGrandfather Watkins went to Trinidad and did much charity work in building a church etc. He was a plantation owner who invited my brother to take over from him in 1940's. Nobody knows where he went or who his ancestors were, I gather there were two daughters and the name Brash was mentioned.
-
My granduncle Richard Tabor
While living with my Grandfather and his wife, he had a dispute regarding the fact that he was squiring a lady and using a false name for some unknown reason.
My grandmother is alleged to have confronted him and his friend about this.
Richard departed the household changed his name ( to Mathews?) and married the Lady.
As far as I know he was never contacted again by his birth family.
At My grandfathers funeral there was a stranger who resembled most of the Tabor males
and may have been him but at the time I was not aware of this situation.
-
I have one relative that I just can not find anything out about him other than a marriage. His name is James Knights and he got married in 1835 in Nacton, Suffolk. He must have lived in the village because his 2nd daughter was born there in 1839 however that is the last I know of him. His wife died days after giving birth to this daughter and I have no idea where he went as he does not turn up on any of the census'. His daughter and son (who was born in 1836) went onto live with their grandparents from their mothers side. I have no idea where he was born either.
I have access to the NBI and can't see anything of help on there, perhaps he went overseas ??
-
This is a slight variation on the theme - how are names changed by deed-poll related to the original births? If you want a good laugh - read on!
My father was born John CARSON, 11/04/1915, Scotland. He died in October 1988 in Warwickshire under the name of Alan Angus MacGREGOR......!
Apparently he changed his name in the 1930's when, as a young lad, he and a group of mates had gone into Glasgow centre to the cinema and spent their return fare home. After one of them had pinched an unattended truck to get them home, they had all been stopped by a policeman and lined up to give their details. Fearing his father's response for bringing the family name into disrepute, my dad glanced at the sign above the shop he was standing in front of (an ironmonger's called "MacGregor's") he blurted out "Alan MacGregor" (no idea where the Angus came from!). At that time, he had the option of appearing before the "beak" (magistrate) and accquiring a criminal record, or he could opt to enter the armed services. He took the latter route, and thus he was formally registered with this false name!
His marriage certificate of 1943 perpetuates the lie, also renaming his father's surname as MacGregor instead of Carson. I have no idea if my mother ever knew the truth, although she was heard to remark, after a trip back to Scotland to meet his family, "...they all call him "JOHN" up there.....!?"
Apparently, dad decided to change his name officially by deed-poll in April, 1980, after he retired, afraid it might jeopardise his pension. However, we kids were none the wiser until a "death-bed" confession in 1988!
To cap it all, my brother and his wife had nearly come to divorce proceedings having argued over the naming of their first son - my brother won, naming the new infant "Alan MacGREGOR Jnr". To find he had named the child after a fictional character wasn't all that funny (..." If he (dad) had been a well man I'd have hit him!").
It just goes to show - never trust anything, mistranscribed or not! :o
-
Wow-ee, stoney!!! :o :o :o
That is an amazing story - never read anything like it in my life!! Just as well you know what he did, otherwise you'd have had no hope of tracing his ancestors, eh??
But seriously, it makes me wonder how many of our "disappeared" ancestors changed their names unilaterally, for similar or other reasons!!! If they made major changes like your dad did, we're never going to find them, are we??
I'm wondering how he managed to marry under a false name - or even to go into the armed services? Surely he would have had to produce some kind of identification for both?
Anyway - great story!! :D :D
MarieC
-
Hi, MarieC,
Mum and Dad were married during WW2 - don't know what "official" documents they might have had to produce, presumably Dad's RAF I/d card would have been deemed suitable (even if it was technically wrong!).
As for entering the armed services, I have no idea how they got round that! I assume the authorities would have many legal loopholes we wouldn't find today! ;)
-
AMOS HILDEN WHERE ARE YOU? ::)
I know you existed because you are named on your daughter's (my great grandmother's) marriage certificate to John Twyman in 1913.
I cant find your birth, marriage, death - nothing!!! You were alive at time of great grandma's wedding in 1913 - but deceased at the time of her 2nd marriage in 1952..
There is rumour that you were a travelling family (romany gypsies?) maybe that's why..
AMOS - please get in touch or send me a sign soon ;D
love from great great grandaughter Jax XX
-
Stoney,
What a story. We have name changes on my husband's sidem most annoyingly his actual name and unfortunately, no one knows what the name actually was. They clearly changed it to make it not sound Jewish. My husband seems to recall someone mentioning it was completely different while one of his brothers insists it was shortened. I think a brother of his great-grandfather's changed it initially and all the rest of the family used it. They spent a few years in London under this name and then moved on to Brooklyn. I wonder if I will ever know.
Kath
-
Hi everyone. Just reading this thread again and wondered how many of the lost have now been found? I am still missing Hubert, Edward and Murdock.....
-
Good question. I am still hunting for William C. Davis, and the missing brothers. I have a search with the NJ archives going on right now for William's death, I am hoping between 1905, when his wife died, and 1910, as I can't find him in the census. And that is only if he stayed in the county he was living in. Maybe I will have part of an answer soon.
Kath
-
I have made no progress with GG Uncle James Franklin Ware, missing for about 25 years, only to finally show up again with his wife [who had been calling herself a widow] in 1930. I can't figure out where he was and what he was up to.
GG Uncles William and George Ennis and George's wife Hannah are also diappeared.
-
I've missed this thread!
My missing relative was SAMUEL CLULO.
He was in the 1861 census in Birmingham, b. 1851, with parents Samuel and Ann nee Bryan both b.1828 B'ham.
Then nothing! Not in any later census,no birth, no marriage, no death, not found on passenger lists. :'(
Then a few weeks ago I found him in a B'ham newpaper report "Thieving and receiving".
In 1869 aged 19 and called SAMUEL HYETT alias Clulo, he was sentenced to 4 months for the theft of a table cover! :o
When his father died his mother married Charles Hyett or Hyatt. He must have taken his step father's name. When his mother died Charles married her sister Elizabeth Bryan, who had a son Thomas. He is in the 1861 census entry as nephew.
I would love to find some other evidence of his existence. There is a thread about him elsewhere. It ran to 3 pages but still nothing found.
Samuel was a cousin of my gt gr father James Clulo.
Kooky
-
Archibald Meyers - WHERE ARE YOU?
1841 & 1851 census' suggest a birth c. 1815, Scotland. Marriage recorded in Wetheral parish register 1835 - wife remarries in 1857 - what happend to Archie?
-
I'm not going to mention Ernest......... ::) ::) ::)
Barbara
-
Apparently my grt-grt-grandfather (John French) - without any parents whatsoever - appeared on earth abt. 1819 in Loose or East Farleigh Kent, just to marry and produce 6 children, whilst my grt-grandfather William Austin could have been born in Battle or Brenchley, the search for him not helped by the fact that he sometimes spelt Austin with an 'i' sometimes with an 'e' and as for the Tompsetts and the Dunmalls - let's not even go there!
-
Mine haven't been found! Edward Martin and Eleanor Bentley are still missing - wonder if I'll find them this side of death! To them I have added two Joshua Bentleys, father and son, neither of whom appear to have died! (Definitely some alien abduction going on in my family!)
MarieC
-
Of my great-grandfather's family, he came out to South Australia, one brother went to New Zealand, another to Wales, his sister to Scotland via Wales, and the eldest brother stayed put; all in one generation!
The only missing one in this lot was another brother, Henry Hogard Pine, b.1839, Beaminster Dorset. Listed with parents & family in 1851 census, and then does the great disappearing act after that.
Regards,
Darren
-
Have a disappearing relative who I haven't even started looking for- the reason will become obvious in a minute.
Known to the family in Ireland as 'Timaru' (after the place he lived in New Zealand) he was probably born in Ireland. Either his father's or mother's surname was probably Hunter and his mother's Christian name might have started with an E. (an old photograph of a woman with 'E.Hunter' taken in Timaru is in Hunter home place- Gilmores have the same photograph so possibly one of the parents was a Gilmore). He came [back?] to Ireland with the intention of staying but then decided to go back to N.Z. Died [probably unmarried?] and left money to Minnie Hunter in Ireland which was used to buy the family's first wireless.
So basically I have no name, place of birth, parents, dates, etc.
-
And I thought looking for Ernest was the pits !!!
Good luck if you do start to look for your lost rellie Aghadowey ;) ;)
Barbara
-
Wow Aghadowey! Thats got to be the most difficult one yet. You deserve a prize if you sort that one out!! ;D
-
Haven't even tried to sort 'Timaru' out yet. All I have is a photograph of a woman who might be his mother and a few clues but no name to search. Wish Aunt Minnie was still here- she was the one who told her nephew about him stying with the family in Ireland.
-
I've been reading "Long-lost relatives" in the 1886 Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper and if half or even a quarter of the ads are correct, then it must have been a sad time for families, especially those in England whose relatives set off to either America, New Zealand or Australia in search of better times.
In the first three and a half months, the paper had advertised for 372 missing relatives.
In the edition of 4 July 1886, it says:
"We can only find room each week for a limited number of the letters received, and all relating to inquiries for next-of-kin and runaway husbands must be cast aside. A few are unintelligible, among them being letters signed Roberts, Moseley, and E A W. Cases going as far back as 1833 appear to us hopeless. Correspondents who have not heard of relatives for many years almost invariably ask for their letters to be inserted in the next issue of Lloyd's; but this is impossible, and they must be patient for awhile."
Some of the ads in this edition are:
James Henry Chorley, left Glasgow in the ship County of Forfar, for Bombay, in 1877, and nothing has been heard of him since. His father and sister would like to know his whereabouts.
Did the ship ever arrive? Nowadays, we could probably look up the internet and find plenty of information.
Henry Friend sailed for New Zealand, in the ship Delaware, about 12 years ago, but doing no good there, went to New South Wales, where he worked as a boot finisher, under the name of Gerald Wilmot. His aged parents have heard nothing of him for 10 years.
I haven't even attempted to track this guy under either of his names ! !
Jean
-
Oh dear - if they emigrated AND changed their names, how are we ever going to find them? ??? ??? :'( :'(
MarieC
-
My GGGGrandfather George Mears/Meers whos death I cant find
I cant find the family in 1841 either. His son James (GGGrandfather) lists his place of birth as Appleton Lancs and his two daughters were born in Wolverhampton. His wife Elizabeth was born Raddington, Somerset and remarried 1848 in Wolverhampton
Logically he died in Wolverhampton between 1837 and 1848 but both I and a cousin have had no joy so far
Willow x
-
My gt grandmothers brother George Ayrton disappeared off the face of the earth.
Never found a legal marriage for him, appears on 1 census, his wife appears on several subsequent ones as "married" , I cant find a death either, got one of his daughters marriages which gives her father as deceased but I still cannot find a death ???
-
My grandfather's sister Agnes Margaretta Heaney or Haney (nee McCalmont) lived in Thamesville, Ontario. On the afternoon of December 23, 1922 she purchased a train ticket to Chatham supposedly to go Christmas shopping. A 15 year old son saw her off at the train station & no one in the family every saw or heard from her again. She left behind a bewildered husband & 6 sorrowful children, the youngest just turned 3 years old.
The Kent County police conducted a fruitless investigation in Canada & Ireland. Police records at that time were kept for only 5 years so the mystery will probably never be solved.
-
With Wolverhampton archives having transcribed a lot of records including Merridale Cemetery its frightening how many were buried as unknown
Between 1850 and 1879 there were 69 buried as 'unknown'
A lot seem to be children who were stillborn or new born and then dumped, another was found smothered in a privy hole, another down a well
Others are listed from the coroner as burned to death, exposed (murdered) and drowned
Theres also an adult male who died in hospital, remains of a body found in a coalpit and a 70 year old male
Its no suprise we have problems
Willow x
-
J.A.M. and willow,
Those are sad stories indeed!! :'( :'( :'(
MarieC
-
Duncan Dunbar Tatham, the half-brother of my 2xgt grandfather, is our mystery man. Another rellie and I have been searching for him for yonks (she has more resources than I do, and more of the details, too).
Born Poplar, Middlesex 20/3/1824, ... came out to Australia, almost instantly got on the wrong side of his rich uncle in Blighty by giving someone a surety that "Unc" would pay a debt for him, ... married Mary Ann Judd in Melbourne, 7/6/1853 ... daughter Elizabeth born 1854 (died London 1870), son Duncan John born 1856. Wife died in Geelong, 1857 ... and after that, we have no idea what happened to "DDT"!
His stepmother came out to Australia to collect his children and take them back with her ... but we haven't found a death certificate or burial for DDT (we have, for Mary Ann).
Could he have been one of those who were chasing the gold finds? *sigh* ... no idea. ::)
-
If anyone has ever read any of my posts you will know that I am desperately seeking Beatrice Westmacott.
Born in 1897 she was last seen getting off a ship in Liverpool on April 22nd 1920 with $14 in her pocket. Apparently never to be seen again. ??? ???
-
Marie C
Just to make your day - there was a snippet in the Lloyd's Weekly newspaper of 6 February 1887 to the effect that
"The shipwrecks reported last week were 52 (including 13 steamers) but only nine lives were lost. British owned vessles numbered 24."
I assume that is a world-wide figure !!
Jean
-
Jean- that bit about shipwrecks is very interesting. My Canadian great-grandfather was captain of the 'Arthur' that went down probably late July 1887. An American ship rescued him and crew (no lives lost) and brought them to New York where they had been heading, arriving around 2 August. He had nothing but the clothes he was wearing and after making sure the crew were taken care of went to stay with the family of several seamen that he knew. One week late he married the daughter of the family and for several years she, and the children that came along (including one born at sea) accompanied him.
-
I have lost Jane Williams (nee Thomas), my great great grandmother
I have her birth in 1872 in Witton park Durham, she appears on the 1881 and the 1891 censuses, she married William Williams in Middlesbrough in November 1891 they had three daughters, Margaret (1893), Martha Jane (1894) and Rachel (1895). She was also widowed in 1895. I can't find Jane, Martha or Rachel on the 1901 census. Margaret is with her aunt and uncle Matthew and Charlotte Steel). Jane then died in Middlesbrough workhouse in 1902.
Therefore, Jane was obviously around in 1901, but where? Rachel and Martha should be somewhere too, I know Martha emigrated to the US and died in Florida in 1978 and Rachel married and had kids in Middlesbrough.
Any help in finding them would be amazing.
TIA
Legs
xxxxx
-
Hi Aghadowey
I am very interested in travel by ship in 19th century, fuelled by the showing of "Deadliest Catch" on television here last year. Although it is about the current fishing fleet in the Baring (?spelling) Sea, it gives a good idea of the dangers of sea travel.
It must have been terrifying to leave the safety of land, not knowing when and even if, you would land on solid ground again. Yet some people up and went all over the world. I also have a relation who was a ship's captain and travelled between Liverpool and America, down to South America and also to Australia.
Have you tried to find any newspaper reports about the wreck of the "Arthur"?
Jean
-
Think there was a clipping in paper (New York Times) about ship (Morgan in name, I think) returning with crew of the Arthur in my great-grandmother's scrapbook which I haven't seen for over 30 years.
Gramps went to sea when he was 15 in 1875. I have the local newspaper article of an interview with him in 1930s and he tells of all his voyages and the countries visited. Most of my grandmother's family were sea captains, seamen, ship carpenters or connected with the sea in some way. Quite a few were lost at sea over the years but it never seemed to put anyone off going to sea.
-
How wonderful that you should have the report of an interview with him. More amazing that with all the perils, he should have survived to live his "three score years and ten".
Here are copies of two clippings which you can add to your considerable records:
The Leeds Mercury, Monday, August 1, 1887:
SHIPPING CASUALTIES
Lloyd's agent at Rio de Janeiro, telegraphing yesterday, states that it is reported that the British barque Pembrokeshire, from London for Rio de Janeiro, has been totally wrecked near Albatross; crew saved. The same company's New York agent telegraphs yesterday that the Arthur, from Ship Island to Canary Islands, has been abandoned; crew saved.
------------
The London Times, Thursday 11 August 1887:
DISASTER AT SEA
The Guion Mail steamer Arizona, from New York, arrived at Queenstown last night with intelligence of the rescue of the captain and crew, seven in number, of the British brig Arthur by the steamer Morgan City, from New Orleans, which landed them at New York on the 31st ult. The Arthur was bound from Ship Island to Canary Island, and was dismasted, had her deckhouses carried away, and was nearly filled with water in a terrific gale on the 26th ult. The crew were 16 hours without food when rescued. The Arthur subsequently foundered.
-------------
-
Thank you so much for those two bits. I remembered the ship that rescued them had 'Morgan' in the name and Gramps' interview mentions the Morgan City. Here's the bit of the interview about the Arthur.
The brigantine Arthur was Captain Gardner's next command. Now a brigantine, for the benefit of those who do not know, is different from a barkentine in that it has two masts instead of three.
"Captain Barney McConnell, master of the Arthur, had died as she lay at anchor at Clinton, Conn.," went on Captain Gardner. "Her New York owners sent me there to take command. They had known me since I was a boy. The body was still on board and we buried it at Clinton."
It was a dismal start for the young captain but be was due for an even more dismal finish about two and a half years later.
Ship Wrecked in Hurricane
"We were off Torugas, at the lower end of Florida, with a load of yellow pine, when the Arthur turned over in a hurricane, " he went on. "She was not old but she was a weak built thing. She didn't turn completely over but just enough so that we had to cling to the hull until we would cut the rigging away. When we did that, the Arthur gradually came back on bottom."
"But the Arthur was done for. I knew she would go to pieces that night so all hands set to work building a raft. We had it partly built when along came the steamer Morgan City and picked us off."
"The Arthur was bound for the Canary Islands," continued Captain Gardner. "The Morgan City brought us to New York. It was the only time I ever failed to reach a port I set out for."
He arrived in New York with his night shirt, a pair of pants, oil coat and rubber boots. One week later, on Aug. 9, 1887m, he married Miss Annie Purdy a native of Nova Scotia whose parents had moved to New York. The captain met her in New Brunswick.
-The Log of Captain Gardner, The Greenwich Press, 23 Nov.1932
-
What a start to your family history to have such an interview!
He certainly was a "young captain" even in those days, probably only about 25.
I do have another clipping but have been unable to send it, as it keeps telling me there is an error and then there is a file with the same name. GRRR! Any hints as to what I'm doing wrong?
-
Another go!
-
I have my 3 x gt grandfather John Burrow or Burrough. He did not disappear. Instead he just appears out of nowhere. I have his marriage in 1817, his removel to another county in 1824 and his death in 1839, so he missed being on the census.
His death record lists him as age 73 so he may have been born around 1766. He may have been in his 50's when he married in 1817. It may have been a second marriage. I dont know. I still have not found his parents, his family, his baptismal record and still cannot find his birth place. I have been looking for the last 10 years and more.
devon - ottery st mary - is where he was removed to in 1824, and where he died in 1839.
-
Burrow Digger,
Could your John Burrow have been a non-conformist, especially RC? RC records of that era are difficult to impossible to find. I know - I can't find my Thomas Martin for that reason!
MarieC
-
I have a brother or half brother (Paris Bradshaw/e b abt. 1845) to my GG Grandfather who is a puzzle.
I picked him up in 1851 census HO107 1580 f? p?
Paris Bradshaw son age 6 born West Indies, living with his father Paris W.A. Bradshaw/e (supposedly a widow but his wife Isabella seems to still be alive!) at 21 Champion Grove Dulwich, Camberwell Surrey.
He is in Limerick, Montgomery, Pennsylvania US in 1870 age 25 At Home with his father and his father's "wife" (maybe) Rebecca Frances Bradshaw also born in West Indies.
He turns up again as a pauper patient in Surrey County Lunatic Asylum, Wandsworth in 1871 census RG10 714 f64 p18 now aged 26 unmarried and occupation Surgeon MRCS Eng.
Nothing then until 1891 census RG12 1011 f100 p18 living with Rebecca F. Bradshawe his mother or step mother (maybe, but definitely his late fathers widow or mistress) Paris is now age 44, single and occupation MRCS or P not in practice (overwritten Surgeon Doctor) they are both born in Jamaica and are visitors at 7/8 Gloucester Place New Windsor, Berkshire.
Then Nothing for either of them, they just dissappear! ::) ::) ::)
Crystal :D
-
Hi Crystal,
On findmypast.com there is the following, the ages are slightly out, but I think they are possibilities, as the year of departure is 1895 from the Port of London and the Destination Country of West Indies and Destination Port of Antigua is the same for both names:
Rebecca Bradshaw, Year of Birth 1825
Paris Bradshaw, Year of Birth 1855
I do not currently have a subscription with findmypast, so cannot view the records, I believe that different ships give different details; also this could be completely unrelated, but also in the year 1895, to the same destination, but from the departure port from Southampton, there are two entries for surname of Bradshaw, both with no year of birth and one with no forename and the other listed as grandchild ???
Regards,
Kath
-
:D Hi Kath,
Perhaps that's where they went ??? It certainly sounds a good possibility doesn't it, as I have them in 1891 Census..
I do not have membership with FindMyPast but was thinking of having one when my "other" membership runs out.
Thank you for looking,
regards Crystal :D
-
Viewing the original image for Paris Bradshaw, his occupation is down as medical man, single, aged 40yrs. Rebeccas occupation is none.
;D ;D
-
Hi Sue,
Thank You, can I ask is that the original (passenger list?) on FindMyPast ???
If so it all ties in 8) and that Rebecca............ never seems to have had an occupation ::)
Crystal :D
-
I have a Dennis Forrest grt grandfather who was 3 on 1861 census he is on 1871 census and again on 1891 with his wife my grandad also a dennis but thats all Cannot after 2 years looking find his birth or death what happens to these people how did he get away
-
Hi Sue,
Thank You, can I ask is that the original (passenger list?) on FindMyPast ???
If so it all ties in 8) and that Rebecca............ never seems to have had an occupation ::)
Crystal :D
Yes, thats viewing the transcription details and the actual image.
-
Thank You Sue,
Looks like my search will continue in West Indies :o Possible they stayed there as Rebecca was a British Subject born in Jamaica,
Crystal :D
-
i have too many of mine ethat have disappeared - some gone for 20m yrs plus then re-appear and some without a trace - what a pain with my tree !!
belinda
-
I have a Dennis Forrest grt grandfather who was 3 on 1861 census he is on 1871 census and again on 1891 with his wife my grandad also a dennis but thats all Cannot after 2 years looking find his birth or death what happens to these people how did he get away
Hi Janet62,
Have you got your grandad and his mother on the 1901 census? Also did your grandad have any other siblings apart from Charles?
Your great grandfather is on the 1881 census with his married sister Julia Reily.
Regards,
Kath
-
Janet62
What happened to these people? They are all in a pub somewhere laughing at us, that's what! We just need to find the pub, and then we can really give them a talking-to!
MarieC
-
Or sit down and have a drink with them ..................and get them talking .................... that would be better Marie ;D ;D ;D
Karenlee
-
I'd just be irresistibly tempted to bawl my two out, Karenlee! :o :o They are frustrating me so much! >:( >:(
MarieC
-
Re Dennis Forrest
Hi everyone if they are in pub lets find it would like to be there
No there is no sign of my grandad and mother in 1901 census rumour is grandad joined the army at 14 so that maybe why he is not on census
As for other brothers there was an Edward no know birth year he did died in ww1 but records state age unknown
the youngest was james born 1899 in Paddington workhouse he is still there in 1901 but on his own
on my grandad B/C they misspelt his name to Forriest but can,t find anything under that Thankyou for reading
-
Hi all,
My gg uncle John Thomas Jones did a disapearing act to get away from his missus and kids in 1903. His wife filed for a divorce in 1909. He had not been heard of again until about a month ago. Recently I found him in records from New South Wales. He was convicted on charges of Assault and Bigamy in 1900 and 1909 and had changed his name to John Henry Woodward,he had also given a different date of birth and year of birth. [ ten year difference] He had even put down a different religion so to disguise who he really was. The only thing he hadn`t changed was his occupation.It had on the record John Thomas Jones alias John Henry Woodward. In his records it had that he was born in Tasmania.This got me onto the scent. They had with his record a photo which my cousin has confirmed that this is our elusive John Thomas Jones her gg grandfather who tried to hide but was caught out nearly 100 years later by two family history nuts from his family. Gotcha John Thomas you couldn`t get away that easy.
Johngirl ;D ;D ;D
-
Well done, johngirl! ;D They can run but they can't hide, eh? ;D ;D Or at least yours couldn't. There's a story there well worth writing up!
Me - I'm still looking for that pub!! >:(
MarieC
-
Thanks MarieC,
My cousin had been searching for him for ages. Oh and so was his ex misses until her death in 1940. Also the police had issued a warrant for his arrest for child desertion,they never found him. The only thing is we have no idea were abouts he curled up his toes.Could be anywhere and under what name is he buried , we have no idea. Here is John Thomas Jones` gaol photo and the details of his criminal activities. Plus it has all his lies on the left hand side.
Johngirl ;D ;D ;D
-
Hi all
My great grandmother had the opposite problem - I bet she wished my great grandfather would have disappeared then perhaps she wouldn't have had 22 kids!!!!! ::) ::)
Sharmar ;D ;D
Seriously, the above great grandmother is a mystery - sent for her marriage certificate - no father! sent for her birth certificate just incase - no father! then I found she had 2 sisters sent for theirs guess what - no father!!! So I checked census' - no lodger, no eligable males living close by. Her mother did marry much later but he was a widower. So did her mother fall for a married man and later married him when his wife had died or did she fall for the same lie three times!! (assuming they all had the same father) or was she a lady of the night!!!! (occupation on the census' is a pit bank woman)
:-\ :-\
-
That's most interesting, Johngirl! You've got a real rogue there, giving colour to the family tree! Yes, very hard to know where a name changer is buried...
MarieC
-
He didn't change his name to Ernest along the way did he Johngirl??
Just kidding..... ;D ;D
Quite the 'Jack the lad' there ;) ;)
Barbara
-
My gt gt grandfather, Nicholas Svombo, was Greek. His wife, Ellen, was Irish. They married in Ireland & settled in Cardiff.
In 1876, Nicholas died. That same year, one of his sons also died. There were a number of children, including Anne Cleopatra, who was about 3 years old. For some reason, while my gt grandfather was away at sea ~ a cabin boy of 13 or 14 ~ this little girl was 'sent back to Greece'. Presumably her mother ~ an Irish lady called Ellen ~ couldn't cope. My grandfather returned with a doll for his baby sister and was appalled to find that she had gone. He lived into his 80s and his constant wish was that he might see his sister again. I understand that he didn't speak to his mother after this.
It's strange, though, because I can only assume that Ellen knew who had her daughter and, during WW1, some cousins, apparently, almost caught up with Cleopatra in Athens, where she looked like a 'rather grand lady' ~ so they must have known how to find & recognise her.
Then, neighbours claimed to have seen an advert in a local Glamorgan paper, presumably from Cleopatea, seeking her sister, Mary Calliope.
At some stage some people knew how to find her & contact her ~ but not my gt grandfather, it seems. It's very odd, but Cleopatra just disappeared from our family.
-
Hi all,
Follow on information of John Thomas Jones [alias John Henry Woodward].
An email sent to me by my cousin.
Well I finally got the death certificate. Don't know if it is the right one or person yet, but it has a lot in common with our John Thomas. He died at the right age 89 at Barraba NSW under the name of John Henry Woodward (his alias) occupation - carpenter (same). His parents were given as George Henry and Ann Bryrnes (George and Ann Jones nee Kemp, close).Born in Donford??? Tasmania (can't find Donford in Tassie?). Married at Inverell NSW at aged 51, again late marriage fits in with the disappearance in 1903, to a Mary Fitzpatrick, no other marriage mentioned.Two children living Mary A 37, Joseph L 35 and 1 female deceased born 1909 stillborn same year he was arrested for bigarmy. Sorry he died of heart failure 29th October, 1944, buried 30th October, at C of E Cemetery Barraba. I will have to check if a John Henry Woodward existed in Tasmania and what happened to him, but it all sounds to coincedental to me. I think I remember seeing the name Woodward in the names associated with the Kemps so maybe he had inside knowledge. Time will tell
Now me speaking again[Johngirl :)]
I have searched for a place called Donford in Tasmania. There isn`t one that I can find. ??? ???
Can`t find a John Henry Woodward born in Tasmania. ??? ???
If this is all true fancy him leaving one wife for another and having more kids :o :o
Johngirl
Sorry Barbara I don`t think he changed his name to Ernest but you never know ;D ;D
-
Sorry Barbara I don`t think he changed his name to Ernest but you never know ;D ;D
Dammmmmmmmmit!! :-\ But an interesting fellow nevertheless. :)
Barbara
-
My great, great grandfather disappears without trace between 1861 and 1871. His name was George Redshaw and he was born in about 1809 in Leeds.
In 1861 he and his family are living in Hartwith, Dacre Banks, Yorkshire (his year of birth as been mistranscribed.) By 1871 Mary his wife had moved to Horton, Bradford, Yorkshire with their younger children. She is recorded on the census as being married, but there is no trace of George.
In 1881 Mary is recorded as being a widow. I traced Mary's grave, which I hoped would give me a clue as to when George had died, but Mary is buried with one of her sons and his wife, so I still do not know what happened to George.
CJL
-
Hi MarieC,
I can empathise with your post! ;D
I have a Great Grandfather, Thomas Louis Newman, who appears on my Grandmother's Birth Cert in 1902, - Occupation 'Comedian' ;D ;D
...& then disappears!! I haven't been able to (conclusively) find any other records for him:-(
According to my Grandmother, he had another wife & family, - but I'm unable to verify this. I've never been able to find any record of him marrying my Great Grandmother, Frances Dyer, - although she calls herself Newman on my G/Mother's Birth Cert, - & her name is given as Frances Newman on her Death Cert.
It is very frustrating!!!
Best Wishes, Romilly.
Further to this post...I have found my G/Grandfather Thomas Louis Newman on the 1911 Census, living with Frances & their children in East Greenwich, London. They say they've been married for 11 years, & so I went back to the Indexes...but haven't been able to find anything!
Another problem is that he says, (on the 1911) that he was born in Carnavon in 1869...but I can't see him there!!!
Romilly ;D
-
I think there is a little nest of them hiding somewhere, CJL! Yours is so similar to two of mine -
Gggrandfather Edward Martin (born 1806) disappeared in London in the 1850s, wife Mary noted as married in 1861 and 1871, widow in 1881. She died after 1901 - date and place of death and burial unknown.
Gggrandmother Eleanor Bentley, born ca 1805, disappeared in London after 1861. She was already a widow.
No trace of either of them can be found! :'( :'( :'( :'(
A reward for anyone who finds the hidey hole of missing Victorian gggrandparents!!! 8)
MarieC
-
Mine is a child who appears on the 1871 Census and who cannot be found -
birth/death or census apart from that. I feel that she may have died young as her next sister took the name when she became a nun but where are the records?
-
I seem to have the opposite problem to most of you!
My gt-grandparents married in 1913 - I have the original marriage cert.
The problem I have is that the grooms paper trail ends in 1902............. before this he doesnt seem to exist, no birth record, not on ANY cencus prior to the 1911 one.................
All I have is his Marriage cert - and a "sworn statement under oath" stating his name, date of birth & where he was born.................. only he appears to have made it up, cos I cant find any info on him in the right area or time.
His Marriage cert gives his fathers name & occupation...... only I cant find HIM either!
Maybe he stumbled out of that pub???
Gaille
-
What an interesting thread. Have read all 14 pages ... ;D
Johngirl I checked suburbs and towns in Tasmania for you and the closest I got to Donford is "Orford" which is about 58 kms from Hobart.
http://www.postcodes-australia.com/areas/tas/tasmania/orford
I just love your story and hope you can find where he is buried.
Have any of you checked this website? Many husbands (and some wives) fled to Australia and their spouses were looking for them. This is an interesting website with some interesting stories. Some even have photos on file (but you have to pay for these). Do have a look at the website though. There's an "Index to Missing People" and "Wife and Child Deserters" etc.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hdharris/
I also have ancestors who have disappeared but will post later.
Thanks for all the laughs, you crazy bunch ;D ;D ;D
CP
-
Don't forget that many people also emigrated to South Africa so it would be worth looking for "lost ancestors" there. Shipping lists maybe or NAAIRS. All the websites are on RC.
-
MarieC
Is this your family ?
http://w3.icr.com.au/~mcameron/The%20Martins.html
I am just wondering if it is your information could Edward Martin be in a debtor's prison ? just a thought
Or have you looked up Hospitals etc ?
I don't understand National archives ,but thought this might help
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=253
-
Hi cornishpasty,
Yes my story of my elusive John Thomas Jones is a good one. ;D
Yes I know where Orford is in Tassie.Its a good spot for fishing and holidaying. :)
My John Thomas Jones was born in Sorell in Tassie which is quite a few miles from Orford but on the same side of the Island.
We are yet to find out if it is really our John Thomas Jones buried at Barraba Cemetery.
Will check out the link of the Missing people and the Wife and Child deserters. I still have one missing person[male of course] not yet accounted for in my tree. ;D
Johngirl
-
My ancestor Abraham Vendyback (Bendyback/Bendy) ‘appeared’ and then ‘disappeared’! He’s first found in Medbourne, Leics in 1778 when he married Ann Ashby. I have a suspicion he may come form the Van de Beck family in Thorney, Cambs, but I’ve never been able to find a baptism. Then his last child is born in 1795 and he completely disappears from the record. There’s no burial for him and in 1799 his wife, Ann is recorded as having an illegitimate child in the parish registers. He’s definitely my most frustrating brick wall!
-
Another disappearing act for the collection:
My 3g grandfather, William Ralston - married in Birkenhead in 1845 to Ellen Coghlan / Coughland. Marriage certificate says his father is also called William Ralston, a stone mason. William and Ellen appear with various children in the 1851 census in Birkenhead - he says he is a 26 year old stone mason from Scotland (and seems to be in Bothwell, Lanarkshire in 1841 as an apprentice mason from Lanarkshire). Ellen died aged just 32 in 1858 (typhoid) - and is described as William's widow. The children in 1861 were living with their elderly maternal grandmother, and in 1871 the youngest were in an orphanage. The youngest child was born in 1854. No sign of a plausible death between 1851 and 1858 (I have a small collection of English and Scottish death certificates which are not him). Where did he go?
Plus, in the 1861 census, there is a William Ralston in Birkenhead (RG9/2642/73/63) - but he's a 55 year old labourer from Ireland - could this be William's father, perhaps moved down to help his 6 orphaned grandchildren? But he says he's single, and guess what - he disappears after that too!
-
MarieC
Is this your family ?
http://w3.icr.com.au/~mcameron/The%20Martins.html
I am just wondering if it is your information could Edward Martin be in a debtor's prison ? just a thought
Or have you looked up Hospitals etc ?
I don't understand National archives ,but thought this might help
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=253
Thanks for all that, Tiggi!
That is in fact my website that you quoted. Since Edward Martin became insolvent, it's entirely possible that he could have been in a debtors' prison. But he doesn't appear in any later censuses, nor does he seem to have died in any city that he might reasonably have been in - certainly not in London!
I have contacted a couple of hospitals, unsuccessfully.
As I live on the other side of the world, I can't unfortunately go out to the National Archives to look at some of those documents. But I am sure of the insolvency - it's what happens next that's mysterious!
MarieC :( :'(
-
Ok MarieC
I will see if I can help ...... I live in Uk ,but not close enough to offer to go look... but maybe someone can offer ? might be worth asking
-
Thomas Child died sometime between 25 July and 31 August 1727 in the Minchinhampton area of Gloucestershire. We've searched all the obvious parishes for his burial but have drawn a blank.
It's just so annoying. We've narrowed it down to such a short time, and he was the only generation in the family to not have made a will - I think he must have gone away from home for some reason and died very suddenly, perhaps in an accident.
Carole
-
Thomas Child died sometime between 25 July and 31 August 1727 in the Minchinhampton area of Gloucestershire. We've searched all the obvious parishes for his burial but have drawn a blank.
It's just so annoying. We've narrowed it down to such a short time, and he was the only generation in the family to not have made a will - I think he must have gone away from home for some reason and died very suddenly, perhaps in an accident.
Carole
Carole
I did a double take seeing your post - I have GAINED a 'Childs'................. shame its over a hundred years between you losing your Thomas Child & me gaining my Henry
I have a Henry Childs (My nanas father) who appears as a full grown adult in 1902............ no trace of him anywhere before this, no birth details, no cencus, nothing at all!
Gaille
-
Thomas Child died sometime between 25 July and 31 August 1727 in the Minchinhampton area of Gloucestershire. We've searched all the obvious parishes for his burial but have drawn a blank.
It's just so annoying. We've narrowed it down to such a short time, and he was the only generation in the family to not have made a will - I think he must have gone away from home for some reason and died very suddenly, perhaps in an accident.
Carole
Carole
I did a double take seeing your post - I have GAINED a 'Childs'................. shame its over a hundred years between you losing your Thomas Child & me gaining my Henry
I have a Henry Childs (My nanas father) who appears as a full grown adult in 1902............ no trace of him anywhere before this, no birth details, no cencus, nothing at all!
Gaille
You'll find the "s" tends to be an optional extra in records - and the further back you go the less the "s" is present.
Carole
-
somebodies missing ancestor.!!! turned up in my family ??? . this photo was hidden among'st a load of papers and photo's :o [ credit must go to gadget for making the animation and all the restorers/colourists who worked their magic on the picture]
-
What a lovely photo!
Willow x
-
hi willow 4873, it is, the restorers had fun and did some remarkable work. on a more relevant note " to this thread" , I have a problem [well ,several] with my gtgtgranmother. she is on the 1881, not on the1891 but back in 1901. ;- 1881. john wilson 26 b. swindon. mary. a. 26 born london. jesse [wilson] brother. john. g. 3. born boxmoor. william. h. 2. born swindon. alice. 6months. born swindon. 1891;- john 36. b. swindon. john. g. 13. b. boxmoor. lilian.mary 6. b. swindon. 1901;- john. 47. mary. a. 46. b. london. william. h. 23. mildred 14. may. 13. cyril. w. 2 I have looked but cannot find her or the children in 1891. ???the fact she has no parents on her marriage cert. doe'snt help. ??? so she's out there somewhere.
-
Hi all,
I too am missing some ancestors, John Wornes disappeared from Bega Australia about 1896 after fathering eight children with Amelia Williams, she then married, using her maiden name and listed as spinster.
The good news is, I have just found my GG Grandfather Charles Hansen, his death was listed in the NSW BDM as "Christina "Hansen. Not a sex change just a mistake in transcription, his name was actually Christian and he must have called himself Charles in Australia.
Since then Rootschatters have found his family in Denmark for me so very happy.
mum mum
-
Hello,
My most frustrating missing ancestor is my 3x great grandfather Samuel Cannom.
The only details I have found for him are:
married Ann Coote 24.9.1835 St Mary's parish church Maldon, Essex
children baptised in St Mary's Maldon
1. Sarah Ann 31.1.1836
2. Samuel 24.9.1837 (buried 30.1.1838)
3. Samuel Charles 25.8.1839 (my GG grandfather)
4. Elizabeth Mary 27.3.1842
Samuel appears on the 1841 census in his father-in-law's house:
Charles Coote 40 Baker
Samuel Cannom 25 Carpenter
Ann Cannom 20
Sarah Cannom 5
Charles Cannom 2
There are two other Cannom Households in Maldon
Samuel Cannom 74 Carpenter
Mary Cannom 67
Abraham Cannom 40 Carpenter
Sarah Ann Cannom 30
Lucy Cannom 14
Susan Cannom 12
Sarah Ann Cannom 3
All of these people are listed as born in county (Essex) although I know this is often wrong.
Ann remains at this property until she dies in 1892. Samuel is never seen again! Ann's marital status varies between married and widowed although it is not until the 1881 census that I can read with certainty that it is a 'W' not 'M' in the column.
Unfortunately the other Samuel, Mary and Abraham all died before the 1851 census so not able to establish a place of birth for any of them. I have found one or two other records relating to Abraham in nearby parishes (Cold Norton & Stow Maries) of a first marriage and baptisms for some children but no baptism for him.
I think there could be a link because the men were all carpenters.
I have tried the obvious Canham & Cannon to no avail. My only indication of a year of birth would be to losely base it on the 1841 census and his marriage date so somewhere around 1815. I had thought he was probably from the Maldon/Dengie peninsula area but that was just based on the few records I have found.
In the 1851 census Ann has a daughter Ellen aged 3. I have found no baptism for her, only a burial four years later but this suggests that Samuel was probably still alive up to 1846 at least. (Giving Ann the benefit of the doubt!)
There is a Samuel CannoN in the 1851 census who would be about the right age and is a carpenter lodging in a public house in Laindon Essex. He is recorded as being married and born in Faversham, Kent. This is the nearest to a possible find so far. Unfortunaltely there is not enough there to indicate whether this is him.
Any ideas? I'd love to be able to get back futher on this line as it was one of the fisrst I started on. I got back to Samuel within weeks of starting my research.... 20+ years down the line I'm still there!
Sheena
-
I am having problems with my 4 times great grandfather James Dowding. He was born who knows where probably around the 1770`s or so. He married again who knows where to Catherine (maiden name unknown). He moves to Cookham, Berkshire and has a child James in 1813. They have no other children and he dies again who knows where sometime before 1820 when Catherine remarries using the name of Dowding of course so no help in tracking her down!
I know he was a servant but have no idea how i can track him down to his parish of origin. It goes without saying there are no other Dowdings in the village of Cookham.
I know this one will get to me for a long time to come!
Sarah
-
My Ggg Grandfather married his cousin Mary Nutt, she appears on the 1861 census with him, he remarried in 1863 and the certificate states him as a widower, but can't find a death record for Mary Nutt, but there is a Martha Nutt that died about the right time, the 1861 - 63 death records on ancestry are the typed ones now so they may have been mistranscribed from the original handwritten ones, so i may take a risk and order that certificate
-
hi, just an update, marie ann wilson was found for me by another rootschatter; ivanidea, to whom i am eternally gratefull. she also had with her son, aged 9 in 1891, and he had left home before 1901 so i did not have him documented. all i knew of him was a mention in a will and vague family legends, so thanks to " ivanidea" and rootschat in general i have made a leap foreward, john.
-
I have an ancestor who not only disappeared but doesn't seem to have any parents.
Edward Thomas Elliott, (a mariner) only appears on 1851 Bristol census as Thomas, aged 33, with surname mis-spelt as Elliot. On 1861 his wife is entered as a widow, although when his 4 children married later only one certificate says "father deceased." The GRO tried to find a death cert, including overseas, but no luck.
When ETE married he said his father had the same name and was a wollen draper. Can't find any trace of anyone like that.
There is a baptism in 1817 of an ET Elliot, father Edward Elliot a servant, mother Hester, but the only record of a Hester Elliott burial in Bristol was in 1815 which makes his age wrong.
The seamen's registers finish just before he disappeared. His last child was born June 1860.
I've spent 4 years trying to find out about him, but think I never will. He has lots of gt gt grandchildren but no-one else appears to be researching him.
He drives me mad.
-
There are lots of uncertainties in this one - and I wouldn't rule out that 1817 baptism yet.
1. If Edward Thomas Elliott senior was a woollen draper when his son married (is it the 1845 Bristol district marriage?) that doesn't stop him having been a servant in 1817 - people do change profession. Plus, 'servant' can be used for a whole variety of contexts; he may have been a 'servant' in the sense of assistant to a woollen draper.
2. Hester may not have been been buried in Bristol (have you also searched for Esthers - the names were used interchangeably). Even if the 1815 burial is her, that doesn't necessarily rule out the 1817 baptism being the correct one if Edward Thomas Elliott junior was a couple of years old when baptised. I have an example in my tree where I can show that at the time of a baptism one of the child's parents was deceased, but this isn't menioned on the baptismal record.
3. If your ETE junior was a mariner, he probably would have been familiar with several ports. I have two mariner branches of the family: one flits regularly between the south coast ports of Plymouth, Dartmouth and Portsmouth, whilst the other branch alternated between South Shields and Weymouth! If you search for ETE marriages, all those recorded before 1875 are in ports: Bristol 1845, Weymouth 1847, Bristol 1865 and Portsea (which covers Portsmouth) 1869.
Might be worth getting some of those marriage certificates to see if there's any connection.
Good luck!
-
Thank you very much for the advice.
The 1845 Bristol marriage is his (the mystery man) the 1865 is one of his son's first marriage. The man on the 1847 Weymouth marriage is not showing on 1851 census but is on 1861 which made me suspect they may be the same person. I was in contact with someone descended from the Weymouth one and he was sure that I was wrong. ETE signed on the 1845 marriage so I need to find out where the Portsea marriage took place to get a copy & check the signature. ETE's wife came from Devon and I cannot definitely find her on 1841 (lots of women with same name). I wonder if they met in Devon and she followed him to Bristol? Luckily I've been given her tree back to early 1600s.
Back to the woolen draper. I can't see any woolen drapers in the 1830 Bristol directory. There are also no other baptisms to Edward & Hester, so perhaps they were new to Bristol or passing through.
The trouble with the Elliotts is that they were everywhere and there are so many spelling variations.
Thanks again for the help. I'll keep trying to find him.
-
My gt grandmother Ann Lee's first husband William Aldous
They married Sept quarter 1866 Ashton dist
Son Fred Aldous was born Mar Quarter 1873 Glossop
Daughter Sarah Aldous was born Sep quarter 1877 Penistone
All are still around on the 1881 Census
By 1.3.1890 She was giving birth to my grandfather Harry Jackson with 2nd Husband Edward Jackson (except they were not married)
22.7.1892 she gave birth to Annie Jackson
She was finally made an honest woman on 30.5.1896 in Macclesfield
So what happend to William Aldous between 1881-1889
Bob
-
Thomas Child died sometime between 25 July and 31 August 1727 in the Minchinhampton area of Gloucestershire. We've searched all the obvious parishes for his burial but have drawn a blank.
It's just so annoying. We've narrowed it down to such a short time, and he was the only generation in the family to not have made a will - I think he must have gone away from home for some reason and died very suddenly, perhaps in an accident.
Carole
Carole
I did a double take seeing your post - I have GAINED a 'Childs'................. shame its over a hundred years between you losing your Thomas Child & me gaining my Henry
I have a Henry Childs (My nanas father) who appears as a full grown adult in 1902............ no trace of him anywhere before this, no birth details, no cencus, nothing at all!
Gaille
Just to give you hope!
After 20 years of trying to figure out WHERE Henry came from last week we found him!
Thanks to the fantastic help of the rootschatters in the Chatterbox (Epsecially Rose & Bally)
We have followed the family thru the cencus's to 1901, and I am 99.9% certain I have the right family, everything adds up (Single mum, re-married & Henry is down under her 2nd husbands name in one cencus, then mums name is mispelt in the next one - which i think is why I could never find him!)
Not only that but on the 1871 cencus page I have Henry, His Mum, Grandparents AND Great Grandmother - plus several Aunts & Cousins!
4 generations on one page, takes me back to 1790's and ......... solves a few family mysteries too!
Gaille
-
My great grandmother is my most frustrating - I have her death certificate and that's about it!
Despite many efforts I haven't been able to find her birth, her marriage, family, her daughter's birth, nursing records... anything. :(
There's a lot of stories about her, she was a suffragette, she went to prison for breaking windows, she was rich, she was in the QARANC during both wars, she was a midwife, she was born in Ireland, lived in Wales, had a Scottish husband - but everything I've been told about her hasn't yet been provable. So who knows how true it is??! With so many apparent details you'd think there'd be a trace somewhere!
She died in 1963 so it's not even like it's the far distant past. :(
-
Hi Rachel
Your great grandmother sounds an interesting lady :) Why don't you start a new post on her and see if people can help?
Monica
-
Hi Rachel
Your great grandmother sounds an interesting lady :) Why don't you start a new post on her and see if people can help?
Monica
Hi Monica,
I her mentioned in this thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369546.0.html and I think one more that I can't find so don't really know if I should start another! That thread is actually trying to find her daughter's birth - Bridget Fitzgerald is the lady.
Don't really know enough facts about her to give people a starting block. ;D
-
I have three main "lost souls" about whom I can discover nothing more: unlike Rachel (above), my main "thorn in my side" is someone about whom we knew practically nothing (just the legend that he fought in the Boer War and survived) and have now quite a bit of information - until he disappears ...
My gt-uncle, George Henry Stevens, was born in Calne, Wilts on 7 January 1875, to my (ironmongering) gt-gt grandfather and his (ex-school teacher) first wife who died shortly thereafter. By the 1891 he had left home and was working in the Great Western Railway Hotel in Swindon as a porter, age 16.
He is next found in central London where he joins the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, transfers to the 4th Hussars and is sent to India, from whence is he invalided home, having contracted syphillis which his medical record states to be highly prevalent in both the regiment and the station (Bombay). He receives the usual treatments and is discharged as physically unfit. Otherwise his records show him to be a good soldier.
At the start of the Boer War he enlists with the 1st Wilts Yeomanry and goes to South Africa for the duration, marrying Isabel Montague St. John Mildmay in January 1900 (south London). They have two children (both of whom survived to adulthood but died without issue): George working as a commercial traveller and Isabel as a cashier. In 1911, George enters his occupation on the census as "comedian and dancer" in south London, but by 1914 he is listed in Kelly's in Walthamstow representing a mineral water company ("Fidler & Stevens": Fidler being his full sister's married name - so this is a family enterprise).
After all that, you must be wondering why I list him as disappeared :)! Well, that is exactly what happens. I have no sight of him or Isabel after the outbreak of WW1.
The possibilities seem to be: (1) he had military experience (and an apparent liking for it) and he went back to soldiering. There are 2 or 3 medal index cards which could belong to him and also two possible graves on the CWGC index; (2) his past (and infirmity) caught up with him and he either became insane or died, in London or elsewhere; (3) George and Isabel died in the'flu epidemic of 1918. Or did Isabel survive him and perhaps re-marry?
Their son Edmond began working on transatlantic liners when he was only 16 at the end of WW1 - did he have to do this to support his mother and sister? He later married and took US citizenship. Did his parents join him?
Having watched George Henry's history fill out from a vague mention from my father's childhood to a varied and mobile career of a man with a family of his own I would dearly love to discover what became of him. Did he die fighting in France, at home of the 'flu, insane in an asylum or live to a ripe old age? There are no descendants to ask and (with such a common name) I don't know if I ever will discover his fate. I'll keep trying though! ;)
Rachel
Addendum 8.8.09: Thanks to help received elsewhere on this site I have now found that George participated in and lived through WW1. It's taken years but gradually we're filling out the picture! Thanks to all who have helped.
;D ;D ;D
-
My Ggg Grandfather married his cousin Mary Nutt, she appears on the 1861 census with him, he remarried in 1863 and the certificate states him as a widower, but can't find a death record for Mary Nutt, but there is a Martha Nutt that died about the right time, the 1861 - 63 death records on ancestry are the typed ones now so they may have been mistranscribed from the original handwritten ones, so i may take a risk and order that certificate
Correction: I'm not looking for Mary Nutt's death doh! I mean Mary Adaway, cannot find a death record anywhere ???
-
Hi Vicki,
Your Vendyback --Van der Beck's from Cambs caught my attention.
There were some De Coldham's in the 1220's from Cambridgeshire eg: Eustachius de Coldham. And my YDNA shows some De Beck 'ancestral cousin; connections back to the 1500's
Have any male Vendyback's done YDNA tests?
Are they Haplogroup I1?
Rgds
Gerard COLDHAM
(uk)
My ancestor Abraham Vendyback (Bendyback/Bendy) ‘appeared’ and then ‘disappeared’! He’s first found in Medbourne, Leics in 1778 when he married Ann Ashby. I have a suspicion he may come form the Van de Beck family in Thorney, Cambs, but I’ve never been able to find a baptism. Then his last child is born in 1795 and he completely disappears from the record. There’s no burial for him and in 1799 his wife, Ann is recorded as having an illegitimate child in the parish registers. He’s definitely my most frustrating brick wall!
-
MarieC (I think) said a while back that perhaps some of the mssing ones could have gone away to search for gold....
here is the link to a miners site in NZ.
http://www.kaelewis.com/
Shanreagh
-
Thomas and Sarah Jacques last seen in Suffolk about 1790. Married in Ufford in 1775.
Elizabeth Auber wife of Samuel last seen at her son Joseph's 1793 baptism in Shoreditch, London.
Until November 2009 I did have my 3xgreat grandfather Thomas Musgrave who vanished after 1891 without a trace in England and Wales. I later found that "lost" ancestor on a 1900 census - in Pennsylvania, America.
-
Hi,
My great uncle Godfrey Moore born 1866 Western Australia, went to the Boer War, came home, reapplied and got to South Africa as the war was finishing and disappeared into that great vast land. I know he married, had a daughter and died there, but that is it (I have seen the death noticeof his wife, but that doesn't list his death, their marriage date, daughter's birth, daughter's marriage.) So this one stays in the background and every now and again I bring it out and get frustrated again!
Then there is the usual greats granparents who don't die - and there is a big list as well as looking for their parents.
Bev
-
Thanks for the link, Shanreagh!
It's just an index, though, and unless a person has access to the NZ archives there is no way of telling whether a person found on the list is one of your ancestors.
In my case, I think probably not, since my man was lame and I doubt that gold mining would have been an option for him.
The link may help others, though...
MarieC
-
My ggg-grandfather, Donald Sutherland. No record of his birth, he married Helen SINCLAIR 15 Apr 1846 in Wick, Caithness. On the 1851 census (age 25, working as a Cooper, born Wick), in Wick, with Helen, daughter Isabella (age 4) and Helen's brother, John. Can't find any of Donald, Helen or Isabella on the 1861 census anywhere in UK (John has married and moved to Inverness). In 1864 Isabella marries in Glasgow, both parents are named on the marriage record, neither shown as deceased. Isabella has (at least) 13 children, uses the Scottish naming pattern except that she does not use Donald (or Donaldina etc.). On 1871 and 1881 census Helen is living with Isabella and her family, her marital status is Widowed. When Helen dies in 1887 her death record states 'married to Donald Sutherland' (ie not 'widow of'). I can't find any record of Donald's death.
-
My 2x great grandfather's three older brothers - Hugh, William and Duncan Carrick.
Hugh (b1840, Glasgow) last officially seen on the 1851 census aged 11 in Rothesay, although his mother mentions him being a seaman c1861 in a parochial aid application in the 1870s (she hadn't heard from him in 11 years either, apparently :-\).
William, (b1842 Balfron, Stirlingshire), last offically seen in the Chelsea pensioner records having retired from the Cameron Highlanders/79th regiment in 1882 after long stints in India/Pakistan/Gibraltar.
Duncan, b1848 Glasgow - although he sometimes lists his birth place as Rothesay, Bute where the family later moved to) last seen in Kelly's/Gores direcory in Liverpool c1894, staying with my 2x great grandmother 10 years after the death of his brother/my 2x great grandfather. He was a mariner, and the one the family think "went to America" and came back intermittently trying to convince others to go back with him - can't find him anywhere in the US or anywhere else for that matter though!
I have other missing relatives, but these are the ones that get me - right there...! :'(
Ann
-
My most frustrating lost relative is my gt gt grandmother's brother James Collins, about whom I have absolutely no confirmed facts whatsoever! According to family lore he was the son of John Collins and Eliza Crawford and born in Knockaduff, Co Londonderry in Northern Ireland around 1850 (could be 10-15 years out and parents names not confirmed as birth pre civil registration in Ireland). The family belonged to a presbyterian congregation (Ballylintagh - near Coleraine) which went out of existence in C19th and has few surviving records (no baptisms).
He is reputed to have travelled to Australia (although it could have been USA!) and made some money in the gold fields before dying there intestate. A legal notice seeking claimants to his estate apparently appeared in the Coleraine papers sometime in the 1930s or 1940s, but despite several hours on the microfilm machines in Coleraine library I cannot find it. Like most family stories you have to allow a certain amount of poetic license, but I'm sure it must have some element of truth - however without a single solid fact I can't work out what element that is ???
I had great hopes of finding him in the wonderfully detailed Australian records to get more information on him and his parents but the combination of a common name and little certain information on him to help keeps that possibility tantalizingly out of reach. I've even started to doubt the story has his first name right :P
-
Isn't it frustrating? >:( One minute they are there, and the next - pouf! Beamed up! You all do realise that they are in a celestial pub somewhere, drinking beer/Guinness/whatever, and laughing at us? >:( (Just wait till I get there - there's going to be Trouble with a capital T!)
For anyone who thinks their ancestor may have come to Australia, the shipping records are often horribly uninformative, alas. They may just give "Mr and Mrs Smith" and not name the children, or if people travelled steerage, they may not be named at all. So you may not find any evidence of their travel. Even if you know your ancestor came here, you may not find him/her in the shipping records. Trust me - I've spent hours/days/weeks looking for one particular family, who must have paddled their own canoe!
MarieC
-
I wonder if anyone could help me find a shipping website for people to Australia as it lists place of origin in England if stated. I went on it once but cannot remember the site and have tried on Google.
I have a William taylor who was in Canewdon in Essex in 1871 and 1885. He is nowhere to be seen in 1881 anywhere. Yet he is back in Canewdon in 1885 as he is on the electoral registers. I wonder if he emigrated temporarily.
-
I think this is the wrong question for me
It should be which of your ancestors just suddenly appeared
-
Great uncle Charles. There in 1851 and 1861, then zilch. No marriage or death. Nothing. Nada. Rien.
I even posted the mystery here and lots of friendly Rootschatters did a search and came up with all sorts of suggestions, but despite all our efforts, still nothing.
Abducted by aliens, maybe?
meles
-
William Wilson, baptised 8-nov-1829 at South Marston. And then, nothing, no burial, no marriage, nothing on the census, nothing, he's gone.
-
I wonder if anyone could help me find a shipping website for people to Australia as it lists place of origin in England if stated. I went on it once but cannot remember the site and have tried on Google.
I have a William taylor who was in Canewdon in Essex in 1871 and 1885. He is nowhere to be seen in 1881 anywhere. Yet he is back in Canewdon in 1885 as he is on the electoral registers. I wonder if he emigrated temporarily.
coombs,
The UK outgoing passenger records only begin in 1890 so too late for your man. Ancestry, I think, has a whole lot of shipping lists which may help if you can access Ancestry. Otherwise, look on the Australian Resources board on this site - lots of useful resources listed. But that will only help you if your man came to Australia. He could have gone to the US, Canada - anywhere, really! I have an ancestor who left England for Hong Kong and then Taiwan, and if I didn't know that, I never would have found him on shipping lists!
MarieC
-
I have 2 known direct rellies who spent time in the US. Thomas Musgrave who went there in 1886 and died there in about 1906 and his grandad who was in the army in America from 1775 to 1782. Thomas was the one who appeared to vanish until I found he emigrated.
-
If anyone want to have a go at this, please feel free.
I have searched for years and have never found Arthur Wilcoxon.
He seems to have just dissapeared, the dates have narrowed it down but it still doesn`t help.
1851 HO107; Piece: 2171; Folio: 77; Page: 4;
At Private school.
Arthur Wilcoxon 12 born Cheshire
1861 Class: RG9; Piece: 2628; Folio: 136; Page: 35
Arthur age 24 with parents Thomas and Elizabeth.
Father and son are grocers and chandlers.
1871 RG10; Piece: 3726; Folio: 23; Page: 3;
Arthur is a publican at the Vaults , Bridge St Chester.
His wife is Mary born Scotland .
The 1872, 1873, and 1875 Electoral Registers still show Arthur as living in Bridge Street with a public house in Bridge Street, but by 1877 he has moved out and is registered as being a householder at 9 Paradise Row, Chester, this is the last record found of Arthur.
Where did he go.
In 1881 Mary appears as Mary Wilcox at Rhianva, Russell Road, Rhyl. She is a widow aged 37 and employed as a housekeeper.
By 1891 Mary had moved on to Scampston Hall, Malton, where she was the housekeeper, a widow aged 45
In 1901 we find Mary Wilcoxon, widow, aged 54, born Scotland living at The Deanery, St Mary Magdalene, Lincoln
-
I have a marriage and death for a Edward Charles Guy Pearce
Said he was born 5th Nov 1915(yes it is 1915) Told his son was born in Swindon, Then on army records its got Fulham,London
Married 1947 to Irene Dixon Edmondton Middlesex
He died Dec 1965. Hackney,London
On marrieage said his dad was a William Maurice Pearce who was dec.And down as a surgeon.(i have looked on list for surgeon not on it)
Cant trace them back anywhere. Cannot find any thing on William at all.
Thats just one of mine i cant find.
Hazel
-
I can't find a death for my great great great grandfather, James Ross.
He was born at St. Fergus, Aberdeenshire on 7 Sep 1864.
I've found him living in Peterhead on the newly released 1911 Scottish Census. According to the marriage record of one of his children, he was dead by 1920.
His widow died down in Glasgow in 1929.
I do take some comfort in the fact that nobody else seems to know when he died either. :)
Windsor87
-
Don't assume he's dead just because child's marriage record says so. I know of a case where father was listed as deceased but had deserted the family and died almost 30 years after that marriage (wife's obituary also listed him as deceased but he was still alive).
-
These are a couple of my brickwalls !
In 1842 Zachariah Tricker married his third wife - Sarah Hemming - St. Mary, Lambeth.
In 1844 baby William Zachariah was born.
In the 1851 census Zachariah has a new ' wife ' - Susan.
They are together in the 1861 and 1871 census but in the 1881 Zachariah is a widower.
Can find nothing further on either Sarah or William - not even a death. Same with Susan - no death............
Guess I'll just have to keep on keeping on. Any suggestions most welcome.
P.S. All of these events took place in the Southwark area.
Seems we have a convergence on our tree - my grandmother was a Tricker descended from Zachariah - I'm new so can't private message yet :)
-
You only need to post two more and that will activate your PMs. A couple of smileys will do it! ;D ;D
-
Yeah but that's cheating! :) - ooo, one more to go! ;D
-
Go on........cheat ;D ;D ;D
Carol
-
Fine! - :) - but don't tell anyone! ;)
-
:-X :-X ;)
Carol
-
I blame that wardrobe that leads to Narnia ! I have a hair pulling out one too . John Marston bap 1757 a month after his parents wedding and that's it. Plenty of online trees have him as a convict sent to Australia but their info doesn't add up. Plus they have my ancestor, his brother married to a different wife in a different city. Neither do they reply when contacted so I'm no nearer in solving this than I was years ago.
-
Would love to find this family after having searched for years.
Emma Punnett born 1 Feb 1862 at Brickfields, Faversham. In 1871 and 1881 she was at the Workhouse at Lyminge in Kent.
Her son William Henry Punnett was born 7 May 1884 at the Workhouse at Lyminge too. In 1891 and 1901 he is living with his Grandmother Emma Punnett and then vanishes. Not to be confused with his first cousin, also William Henry born 1887 Elham who is my Grandfather.
Emma had two sons, both born at The Union Workhouse at Willesborough, John Valyer Punnett 1888-1889 and Cedric George Punnett who was baptised at the Workhouse 8 July 1890.
No sign of Emma or Cedric Punnett after 1890, not in census birth marriages or deaths that I can find.
Fresh eyes or any clues very welcome.
Heather
-
Back in June '09 I posted about my gt-uncle who had gone missing and this is to tell all those whose ancestors "vanish" that sometimes they will turn up - you just have to re-visit the records as new ones go on-line. Quite unexpectedly I discovered that my globe-trotting gt-uncle died in New York in 1934, after working across the world. He had an amazingly full life and I am delighted that his nephew is still alive to hear the story. I feel very fortunate to live in a time where researching on-line is possible - 25 years ago the rumour of a lost gt-uncle would have remained just that. :)
-
Mary Wickham born 1779 in Bolney, Sussex. She had a baseborn daughter Amelia (Mildred) in 1801 in Twineham. Mary's parents died in 1810 and 1811 respectively. But no sign of Mary after her daughter's birth in 1801.
-
I have 2 who have vanished into the abyss.
1. George Malcolm - my GG uncle - born Dundee around 1852. He registers his mother's death in 1876 and his father's in 1880 and after that no trace of him. Perhaps he went abroad but so far I cannot find him.
2. George Small (nephew of the above and my G uncle) - born Dundee in 1882. I have his birth record and census records up to 1901 and then nothing. In the 1911 Scotland Census his mother states that she has had 13 children, 9 of whom are still alive. I can account for the living children and 3 of the ones who had died except George. That leaves me to conclude that wherever he went he must have died between 1901 and 1911.
Maybe I will solve the mystery of my two George's at a future date.
By the way they were the brother and son of my Avator.
Dorrie
-
I too live in hopes that a record of the demise of my father's brother-in-law will be published sooner rather than later.
His name was Charles Armit Masson who had served during the Great War, then married my aunt in Lanarkshire. The family story is that during WWII as he had naval and medical experience he decided to "do his bit" and signed on - apparently as a Cook (?). I might have got it wrong but I believe he signed on in the Merchant Navy not the Royal Navy. He perished on a North Atlantic Convoy run.
Here's a 1921 potted history of him:- https://www.abdn.ac.uk/library/roll-of-honour/3934/
-
Hi
I have one that just disappears. Caroline Mary Beagley born March Q 1895. 1901 census at home Phoenix Green, Hartley Whitney name shown as "Cassie", 1911 census name shown as C M. Then nothing no marriage, no death, no 1939 register, no immigration aaaaaahhhhhhhhh. I have traced all her siblings but not her. She is my Grandmothers sister.
-
I too live in hopes that a record of the demise of my father's brother-in-law will be published sooner rather than later.
His name was Charles Armit Masson who had served during the Great War, then married my aunt in Lanarkshire. The family story is that during WWII as he had naval and medical experience he decided to "do his bit" and signed on - apparently as a Cook (?). I might have got it wrong but I believe he signed on in the Merchant Navy not the Royal Navy. He perished on a North Atlantic Convoy run.
Here's a 1921 potted history of him:- https://www.abdn.ac.uk/library/roll-of-honour/3934/
There is a newspaper article for Dr Charles Armit Masson age 44 in the Dundee Courier on the 11 June 1929, the article is on FindMyPast, he was sadly found dead in a London Hotel. I kind of hope this is not your man, but it certainly seems to fit, the article even includes that he saw active service in Salonica, which was mentioned in the 1921 potted history.
Regards, Kath
-
I too live in hopes that a record of the demise of my father's brother-in-law will be published sooner rather than later.
His name was Charles Armit Masson who had served during the Great War, then married my aunt in Lanarkshire. The family story is that during WWII as he had naval and medical experience he decided to "do his bit" and signed on - apparently as a Cook (?). I might have got it wrong but I believe he signed on in the Merchant Navy not the Royal Navy. He perished on a North Atlantic Convoy run.
Here's a 1921 potted history of him:- https://www.abdn.ac.uk/library/roll-of-honour/3934/
There is a newspaper article for Dr Charles Armit Masson age 44 in the Dundee Courier on the 11 June 1929, the article is on FindMyPast, he was sadly found dead in a London Hotel. I kind of hope this is not your man, but it certainly seems to fit, the article even includes that he saw active service in Salonica, which was mentioned in the 1921 potted history.
Regards, Kath
I really appreciate your interest Kath. Thank you so much for this information; born 1885 with that history, he's definitely mine. Thank goodness you solved the puzzle. I'd been given the name of the ship he sailed on by an older cousin but was puzzled that although it had been hit by enemy fire during WWII it hadn't sunk and it was never part of the Atlantic convoys but had historically always been used on the Mediterranean run.
What I think has happened is that two stories have been merged into one and possibly the death that (might have) occurred in the Atlantic convoy was a relation of my Leith born grandmother whose family were mostly sailors.
Once again - thank you, I'm much obliged.
Rena
-
Hi
I have one that just disappears. Caroline Mary Beagley born March Q 1895. 1901 census at home Phoenix Green, Hartley Whitney name shown as "Cassie", 1911 census name shown as C M. Then nothing no marriage, no death, no 1939 register, no immigration aaaaaahhhhhhhhh. I have traced all her siblings but not her. She is my Grandmothers sister.
I think Caroline Mary Beagley was my Grandmother. She married my Grandfather Clarence Burden under the name of Kathleen M Beagley in Wombwell , South Yorkshire. They had 3 children Dorothy, Elizabeth (Betty) and Charles. We've been tracing the family tree for a number for years but hit a brick wall with her details as she admitted on her deathbed that she had married under a false name. We were led to believe she was estranged from her family. Fathers name had been transcribed as EVAN on Marriage certificate but the copy of the original shows his name was Esau and was a carpenter which has led us to your post.
-
My 4x great-grandfather George McMillan. Born in 1828 in Muirkirk, Ayrshire, and married my 4x great-grandmother Dorothy Gray in 1854 in Glasgow. They had at least four children; George in 1855 (died shortly after birth), another George in 1859 (my 3x great-grandfather), Mary in 1861, and finally Robert in 1864.
Then Dorothy remarries to James Littlejohn in 1866 and the marriage record says that she is a widow.
So my ancestor George died sometime between the birth of his son Robert in 1864 and the remarriage of Dorothy in 1866.
I've done a fairly exhaustive search (keeping in mind that George McMillan is a very common name) on ScotlandsPeople for a death record and nothing has turned up.
I'm considering the possibility that he wasn't actually dead when Dorothy got remarried and that he may have deserted her or done something else to make her want to say that he was dead.