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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: fiona g on Monday 15 January 07 09:55 GMT (UK)
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Does anybody have access to Fasti Ecclesiae for Greenock area for years between 1803-1838.If so please could you look up Rev George Moscrip,I would hope it would list his children infact anything at all would be great.Rev George Moscrip was Minister at Cartsdyke or Crawfords Dyke Church(name change over the years) Greenock.Any help would be greatly appreciated. Fiona
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It seems you may not be alone in searching for this gentleman unless the other identity is connected in some way
I am looking for the parents of Reverend George Moscrip. He died in 1839. He was the pastor of a church at Crawford's Dyke for about 40 years. He was married to Janet Wilson. They had 11 children. I am also trying to find out the names of the children. I know of 5: Andrew, William, Clement, George and John.
Can someone please help me. I'm stuck.
Thank you!
posted 5 january 2006 by "Buffs"
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=27252
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Yes I think I know who this could be but not under the name Buff,we are in touch still chasing the same thing but never finding it.Do you think The Fasti would have the info I require on children from Rev George?Do you think I could get this info from National Archives via their web site. Fiona
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from what I've read of the Fasti it looks like it is more a record of the church career of the individuals concerned although I may be wrong in that as it is not a source I have had reason to pursue.
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Thanks anyway fiona
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Not sure if this site covers greenock but should do
http://www.archive.org/details/fastiecclesiasco08scotuoft
Family are sometimes included so its down to luck :-\
Russell
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Russell thanks for your help,I have had a brief look at the site looks a bit complicated for me but I will give it a try tomorrow.Many thanks Fiona
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I have looked under the Presbytery of Greenock mad there is no record of a Rev Moscrip, the records for this prebytery were very poor, as if they had been lost.
Tom
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I can corroborate tidybooks ... the nearest in the greenock parish is William Moscrop and there do appear to be blanks.
if you are going to view the records i suggest the txt version its much faster to download.
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Thanks Falkyrn,
I went PDF route, much slower but easier to get presbytery.
I did a search for children of George Moscrip and Janet Wilson on LDS and SP, on LDS 3 returned Andrew b 15 Jul 1808, John Wilson b 16 Sep 1811 John Wilson c 30 Sep 1811. On SP, similar etc Andrew same date but John Wilson given 30 Sep 1811 & 1812. No sign of others.
Tom
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here is what I have got on Moscrips, they are in Scottish Borders at the moment -
James Moscrip m Betty Purvis
Children all christened at Yetholm, Roxburghshire
Andrew Moscrip c 22 Nov 1767
Elspeth Moscrip c 20 Aug 1769 (child death?)
Helen Moscrip c 15 Nov 1772
Elspeth Moscrip c 19 Feb 1775
George Moscrip c 23 Mar 1777
Betty Moscrip c 16 May 1779
Peggy Moscrip c 07 Jul 1782
All birthe from Oxnam, Roxburghshire unless stated,
Andrew Moscrip was father of
Clement Moscrip c 02 Mar 1721
? Moscrip c 07 Apr 1723
Clement Moscrip m Janet Turnbull on 5th Dec 1723 at Oxnam, Roxburghshire
children–
? Moscrip c 21 Dec 1726
Elizabeth Moscrip c 02 May 1731
Janet Moscrip c 12 Nov 1732
John Moscrip m Isobel Hall
Children were
Andrew Moscrip c 10 Nov 1707
William Moscrip was parent of
Margaret Moscrip c 04 Jun 1710
Agnes Moscrip c 27 Jan 1712 2 diff families???
Margaret Moscrip c 09 Jul 1732
George Moscrip c 27 Mar 1735
Robert Moscrip was parent of
Isobel Moscrip c 24 Sep 1714
Robert Moscrip c 02 Oct 1719
William Moscrip c 26 Jul 1730
Mary Moscrip c 06 Jul 1735
Andrew Moscrip (o) m Jean Scott
Children were
John Moscrip c 16 Jul 1783
Thomas Moscrip c 01 Feb 1787
Robert Moscrip c 12 Dec 1790
Nancy Moscrip c 26 May 1793
James Moscrip was parent of
Robert Moscrip c 21 Mar 1753
Print out and havve a lookat , maybe make some sense of it, if you can, I came across moscrop, Moscrope etc but counted all as Moscrip, makes it a wee bit easier.
Tom
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Thanks Tom,and yes some are related I think to Rev George as I got confirmation from NAS few years ago that George was born in the Borders and sat his Divinity there(something to do with studying for the church).Maybe i should give up on this family but I have been saying that for years Fiona
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Fiona,
I gather from your posting on his son that you have seen the MI - but it may be worth adding that the editors of the Mitchells' MI book have added that readers should refer to Small's "History of the United Presbyterian Church" at volume ii, page 171 - also G Williamson's "Old Greenock" 2nd series at p. 133. They add also that he was ordained 24.11.1802.
Hope this helps
Alistair
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Hi Alistair
Thanks for your help.Yes I have a photo of Rev George Moscrip headstone buried Greenock,its very impressive and he seemed like a nice man according to the inscription,did not mention his wife and family though(i thought that unusal).I have not seen Clements headstone but if I could find out the inscription i would maybe find his wifes name.Could you suggest where I may find this "Smalls History" Mitchell Library or Nas Edinburgh,both have been very helpful in the past with emails.Curious how you know what you know you seen very knowlegible. Fiona
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Hi
The name Moscrip is so unusual that when I came across it the other day when looking for my wife's family I had to take a quick note.
It was a the birth of Jane Henderson Pye in 1861 to father David Pye and mother Clement Moscrip Gardner in Edinburgh. (IGI C116851)
Given the name of the mother there must be some link to your line.
The Pye family is a side branch from my wife's.
Russell
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Hi Russell
Could be some distant link.The Moscrips I am tracing started at Jedburgh one I discovered studied at Edinburgh University(not to far from Jedburgh)then they travelled to Greenock and some over to Pennsylyannia,America.
I am sure I have seen the name Clement Moscrip Gardner over the years of tracing this family,cannot remember where.I have check my previous searches on SP to no avail.If I come across anything in my very unorganised paper work I will get back to you. Fiona
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Hi Fiona,
sorry I've been slow following up on this. To cut a long story short, work intervened.
I've got a combination of local knowledge (grew up near Eaglesham, interest in Pollokshaws, trained in Greenock) and a reasonable library.
Though I was caught out (I now know) by Small's UP book. It's available for download, if you have broadband, at [ http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=subject:%22United%20Presbyterian%20Church%22 ] (make sure you get it all in the window).
The page references I gave you were pretty well duff though. Turns out what you need is volume 1 page 600, and volume 2 pages 171 and 274 (at least - that's what jumps up on a text search).
However, it seems incomplete and I wonder if technically its the Free church one you need for Clement. Small tries quite hard to play him down as a radical that tried hard, got sick and moved on in the direction of Pollokshaws where he quietly faded out.
But then, Andrew McCallum's history of Pollokshaws (Pollokshaws : Village & Burgh : 1600-1912) at pages 84-85 reveals a lot more more, including that Clement's selection as minister at Pollokshaws was strongly opposed (though obviously he won) and that this helped split the church again. No genealogical data in it, but it must be good to have such interesting ancestors and this must be worth another, more insistent, trip to the Mitchell...
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You likely have this, but just in case...misspelled as Clement "Moscript":
Birth February 13 1804 / Christening February 13 1804
(submission...LDS IGI) ...sorry, I had thought it was an extracted file with the exact dates, but then I went back and looked again...
J.J.
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JJ THANKS
I did not have Clement Moscrip(t)s birth and cannot believe I missed it.I have his death and was working out his birth from that,same thing I suppose but nice to have the exact date. Fiona
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Hi Alistair
Thanks for the info and help,this religious stuff is above me but Im learning.I tried the Free Church to no avail on the website.Where did you find the below info I couldnt find it on the website you sent,it looks interesting.
However, it seems incomplete and I wonder if technically its the Free church one you need for Clement. Small tries quite hard to play him down as a radical that tried hard, got sick and moved on in the direction of Pollokshaws where he quietly faded out.
But then, Andrew McCallum's history of Pollokshaws (Pollokshaws : Village & Burgh : 1600-1912) at pages 84-85 reveals a lot more more, including that Clement's selection as minister at Pollokshaws was strongly opposed (though obviously he won) and that this helped split the church again. No genealogical data in it, but it must be good to have such interesting ancestors and this must be worth another, more insistent, trip to the Mitchell...
Fiona
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Mention of your Rev C. Moscrip...Halfway down the pdf, page 10...communion tokens...excerpt"...(Obv. REV. C. MOSCRIP'S| CHURCH,| POLLOK-. SHAWS. | 1842.| ....)
http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/PSAS_2002/pdf/vol_084/84_038_056.pdf
Then look at all the wonderful communion token graphics at the bottom of the page!...J.J.
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Did some of the offspring move here, also?..as look who officiated in many Jersey funerals & weddings! ...U.S.A.....a Rev. Moscrip...J.J.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~iljersey/obits/ObituariesA1.htm
and...here in Iowa...
In 1879 Rev. C.H. MOSCRIP is found settled at KEOKUK
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ialee/data/baptist.htm
reading on he end up in Jerseyville, so is same as above mentioned...
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~donnlibr/data/baptist.htm
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Oh, I see you are new to the site, Dahlboy...WELCOME to Rootschat! J.J.
Fiona do you have this on Andrew's George?
http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/bradsby/bio1035.htm
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JJ Thanks for the info,I had previously seen Rev C Moscrip Pollokshaws.I checked the website you sent re Jersey obits with Rev Moscrip,not sure who he is though.Yes at least one Moscrip(Andrew dob1808)went to America,Andrews son George became Honorable George Moscrip in Bradford Pennsylvania,I have plenty info on them so am now trying for plenty info on Clement Moscrip. Fiona
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JJ just noticed the other part of your message and yes I have it from TRI COUNTY and isnt it great so many records recorded hopefully the same for Clement as he is a Minister. Fiona
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Hi Alistair
Thanks for the info and help,this religious stuff is above me but Im learning.I tried the Free Church to no avail on the website.Where did you find the below info I couldnt find it on the website you sent,it looks interesting.
However, it seems incomplete and I wonder if technically its the Free church one you need for Clement. Small tries quite hard to play him down as a radical that tried hard, got sick and moved on in the direction of Pollokshaws where he quietly faded out.
But then, Andrew McCallum's history of Pollokshaws (Pollokshaws : Village & Burgh : 1600-1912) at pages 84-85 reveals a lot more more, including that Clement's selection as minister at Pollokshaws was strongly opposed (though obviously he won) and that this helped split the church again. No genealogical data in it, but it must be good to have such interesting ancestors and this must be worth another, more insistent, trip to the Mitchell...
Fiona
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruption_of_1843
This entry in Wikipedia will help to throw some light upon the general background of your relatives when they took their places in the Church and the secession of the congregations.
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The church going folk of Pollokshaws appear to have been quite a fractious lot and first split up in 1799.
The book "Villages of Glasgow" refers to another event just prior to 1847 where the congregation split over the choice of minister with the congregation forming two seperate churches.... although it does not mention your ancestor by name it does tie in with the information you had.
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Thanks Falkyrn I will check it out.Any ideas where I could get Rev Clement Moscrip wifes name no luck on IGI or SP? Fiona
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I think the only place that may have the records is the NAS in Edinburgh
Churches
Kirk session, presbytery and synod records for the Church of Scotland, Free Church, and various dissenting ('seceding') congregations; records of the Scottish Episcopal Church; copies of the records of baptisms, marriages and burials for Roman Catholics before 1855.
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Fiona,
I can't post an extract from the book by McCallum since I can't demonstrate the copyright position. If you send me a private message I should be able to get it to you. Here's a link to a picture of the relevant church http://www.pollokshaws.org.uk/Gallery%201/IMAGE033.html .
I see two Moscrip marriages at Eastwood in 1869 in the IGI and I wonder if these might be Clement's daughters? This might be worth checking out on Scotland's People.
The only other easy thing I can suggest is to look for all Moscrip testaments - also on Scotland's People. Searches of this database are free, and there can't be that many of them, I'd guess. Ministers' wives quite often feature there - I suspect because they would sometimes get pensions.
Alistair
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Hi Alistair
Thanks for the church link.Can you send the Mccallums thingy please.I have checked SP,found C.B Moscrip(Catherine)according to her death record,daughter of Rev Clement Moscrip and his wife Grace Moscrip married William Torrance 1869 ,Catherines brother George Clement was 1 witness and her cousin Helen S Moscrip the other witness,Helen was the other 1869 marriage.Catherine Moscrip died 1872.I now have a wife for Rev Clement Moscrip and 2children. Fiona
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Perhaps a clue here, in the middle name...for Grace's or someone's surname...
an extracted birth on the IGI..for:
Helen Grace Moscrip Torrance
born Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark
April 28th, 1870...to
William Torrance and
Catherine Burnside Moscrip!
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Fantastic J.J well spotted.Catherine was referred to as C.B Moscrip
on the IGI and on her marriage cert on SP,I only got to no her christian name this afternoon on her death record.on SP she was referred to as Catherine.
Catherines middle name Burnside tis a bit spooky as that is my maiden name,and this family of Moscrips are on my uncles side no blood relations to me.A big thank you to you. Fiona