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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jadewing on Wednesday 10 January 07 11:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
While staying with my sister over Christmas I started helping her with her husband's tree. She'd got nowhere on her previous attempts but with help of some fantastic RootsChatters :-* ,and a few GR contacts, he now has 6 generations on some branches.
I'm completely jealous! I've been plugging away at my tree for a couple of years but have now abandoned hope of finding a convict :'( and have to make do with the Clayton's Convict http://www.convictcentral.com/ After less than a month she has discovered 2 maybe 3 convicts! Her kids are thrilled!
Funny how the black sheep are much more interesting than the upright citizens. ::)
Jane
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Hi Jane
Perhaps it is not that they are more interesting - but rather that they are much more documented & easier to find detail about. Our free settlers (especially those who paid their own way) were of little interest to the British govt so were somewhat ignored. I have found that there is much more information about the free settlers offline, often in the smaller history societies in rural areas of Australia where they settled. (not, of course too easy to access).
Until fairly recently, convict ancestors were hidden. I well remember my mother telling me how wonderful it was that OUR ancestors were all free settlers. ;D ;D
Trish
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Hi Jane
me too not a convict insight sigh out loud
got relo's going to tasmania thought ah ha got to be convicts no free settlers
I haven't found a one but then without all the free settlers from where ever they may have come Australia wouldn't be the country it is today!
So take your hats off to your ancestors anyhow.No matter how hard I try and imagine their journeys, the months at sea and then the trudging all over the country to make a new live for themselves and there offspring, I cannot really fathom it all!
regards jenn
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Hi Jane,
You can have mine there free lol
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Hi Jane, never mind!! :'( I will gladly give you a couple of mine
4 on my side and about 10 on my husband's side
As Trish says you never know what you will uncover about our free settlers when you delve a little deeper.
Cazay
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I think 11 or 12 convicts arrived a few weeks ago, for crimes against cricket !!!!!!
Maybe not have convicts in the cupboard, it could have been worse, could have been English cricketers.
Tom
(somewhat releived Scotsman)
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Good point Tom! Maybe I should count my blessings! ;)
Jane
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Jadewing,
What has disappointed me, is that there have been no jumping and dancing in the fountains of Trafalgar Square, no Freeddie Flintoff collapsing with drunk. Why not!!!!
Will Shane Warne still be playing when he is a 100!!!! i hope so.
Tom
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Hi Jane,
Some of my more interesting ancestors were the free ones, like my Greatx5 Grandfather Eber Bunker for example, he's referred to as the father of Australian Whaling - not that thats such a good thing but interesting nevertheless. His daughter (pictured in my avatar) married Thomas Laycock who was the only casualty in the Rum Rebellion, while searching Government House he fell through a manhole and landed on his rear end.
The best way I've found is to just google your ancestors names individually (just work through one at a time) and also google the town they settled in, you might be surprised with what you find. In the town results you might not find a mention of your ancestors name but it might paint a good picture to what life was like back then which is pretty interesting anyway. From just googling my newly found Gx3 Grandfather Charles Newman I discovered yesterday that there is a street in Newtown named after him. It can be time consuming but I've found loads of stuff on my free settlers by doing this. ;D
Amanda
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hello there everyone
I feel quite proud of the fact that amongest my relations on my dear mum's side ( her maiden name was Bayley) is the first woman to be elected to Qld Parliment and third in Australia her name was Irene Longman nee Bayley, she was born in tasmania from free stock to a long line of Methodist Ministers! and reading about her on the web she had an interesting time of it not allowed to use the toilets Men Only couldn't eat with them Men Only The Electorl Division of Longman in Qld is named after her.
http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100131b.htm
http://arcq.com.au/suffrage/sitting.htm
this link has a word or two and a photo which bears an uncanny resemblance to aunt or three! for anyone who may be interested in a bit of history . Two of her brothers were also politicians and I think ther is a prison named after her as well. think haven't quite goggled that out as yet! Now isn't that a wonderfull resource!
regards Jenn
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I hope the prison is not Boggo Road, Jenn....that would be an unfortunate name! ;D ;D ;D
Prue (proudly descended from two convicts and lots of free settlers)
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Most of my lot seem not to have done much that was noteworthy, although I have discovered, via Google, that Parap in Darwin is named after a pastoral property near Moriac, Geelong, which was owned by a 5G Uncle Frederick Dewing in the 1840-50s.
Jane
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hello there
I just "goggled" and it is the David Longlads centre so that bit of info is not true
I have an Aunt whose married name is Boggs Now I wonder about Boggo Road Prue!
regards jenn
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Oh dear Jenn ;D ;D ;D Not sure which is worse, Boggs or Boggo!
Pity about the name of the prison, the David Longland Centre is the one out at Wacol is it not? The one where the prisoners always used to get out, and some wag put up a sign next to the road saying "Caution: Prisoners Crossing" ;D
Jane - interesting about Parap, I was up in Darwin the week after Xmas, and bought a beautiful painting from an Oenpelli-based Aboriginal artist, who had a stall at the Parap markets. The markets are wonderful, lots of freshly cooked Asian and Islander foods, fresh fruit and veg, and some very nice arts and crafts.
Prue
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Hi
I only have one convict and he was sent to Tocal in the Hunter Valley and is actually recorded in the history of the Homestead. There and books have been written about him so he must have been a reformed character out here :-). I told my daughters about him when they were studying Australian history at school last year. They were not impressed at all....... "you mean we are descended from criminals" and I thought it make the history a bit more real for them haha!!!!!!!
Fiona
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hello there Fiona
what did he do was he a "real" criminal? or some poor sod trying to live ?
regards jenn
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Hi Jenn
Stole a horse apparently so it was a bit serious..... surprised he didn't hang actually....... however the owner of Tocal was so impressed with him that he was granted the ticket of leave and then employed there so I think he can't have been all bad........ however my 12 & 10 year old daughters didn't think so haha!!!!!!!!
Fiona
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I think my sister's kids are more excited about having convict ancestors than if they were royalty! :D
For a short time I thought we had a wrecker (lured ships to their doom) from the Devon coast in Mum's side of the tree but it proved to be a false connection. Everyone was very disappointed to have to relinquish Granny Berry!
I lived in the Kimberley for a while Prue, so I know Parap markets well. Pity I didn't know about the family connection at the time.
Jane
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Hi Jane,
Feel free to beg, borrow, buy or steal any one of my 17 direct line convicts - and that just my Dad's side ::)
As someone said, there appears to be a lot of information about each of them but when I tried to trace any of them in UK I came to a dead stop - and have remained that way for many years :'(
Unless you are back to overseas ancestors in every branch of your family, there may still be hope for a convict or two ;D - keep searching!
Good luck
Di
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Seventeen convicts :o Thats just greedy ;)
Alas there seems to be no hope for a direct line convict. Although, there is Kezia Wicks/Walters...
We don't know how, when or why she came to Australia. She just appears in Sydney when she the baptism of her son James Walters is recorded. Her husband and 2 other children (12 & 2yo) are still in England. But a cousin (who does lay claim to a few convicts on her mother's side) says that she is not listed as a convict arrival, or anywhere else for that matter. ???
Jane
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Hi Jane,
What else do you know about Kezia? What dates are we talking about?
I smell an interesting story here... ;D
Prue
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As someone said, there appears to be a lot of information about each of them but when I tried to trace any of them in UK I came to a dead stop - and have remained that way for many years :'(
Di
This seems to be a disadvantage with the convict ancestors Di - it seems near impossible to trace them back in UK. I claim my husband's convict as my own ;D and many folks have done much research to find his roots. The suggestion that seems to have been excepted by the majority, still seems to me to be based on much supposition.
From my research, free settlers seem to have kept much more contact with home, come in family groups and passed on much more information to the next generations (not always truthful - but usually interesting :D )
Trish
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Seventeen convicts :o Thats just greedy ;)
Alas there seems to be no hope for a direct line convict. Although, there is Kezia Wicks/Walters...
We don't know how, when or why she came to Australia. She just appears in Sydney when she the baptism of her son James Walters is recorded. Her husband and 2 other children (12 & 2yo) are still in England. But a cousin (who does lay claim to a few convicts on her mother's side) says that she is not listed as a convict arrival, or anywhere else for that matter. ???
Jane
Kezia could have had an alias or multiple. One of my Gx4 Grandfathers was a convict named James Rixon but he was first recorded as James Hickson. Another one of my Gx4 Grandfathers was Patrick Harrigan - I won't list his aliases there are too many and theres a couple of threads floating around here somewhere about him...... ;D
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Hi Jane,
What else do you know about Kezia? What dates are we talking about?
I smell an interesting story here... ;D
Prue
Its all very strange but what we have so far is:
Kezia Wicks b1806 Charlton Surrey, par Steven Wicks 1781-1837, Butcher, & Jane Flint c1783-1824;
No marriage record found to date but the father of her 3 known children was Ferdinand Walters b 1803 Pentrich Derby d1848 Windsor Berks, Corporal of Horse in 2nd Lifeguards;
Children - Frederick b c1832 London (no birth record yet); Walscourt Ferdinand Walters b 4 Apr 1842 Westminster London (my 3G GF); James b 16 May 1844 chr 9 Jul 1842 Sydney (father Ferd. Walters);
Following Ferdinand's death in July 1848, she married Thomas McEnery in Adelaide 27 Mar 1849;
Kezia died in Melbourne 1895 and is buried in the Melb General Cemetery.
Its a real mystery as to why she would leave such a young child and head off to Australia. The family story is that the children were left with the Walters family, who placed them in care.
Jane
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Hi again Jane :)
Hope you don't mind me asking these questions, you can tell me to push off if you like ;D I live vicariously these days, now that my own research has slowed right down ;)
What sources do you have for the births of Kezia's children, and the name and dates of their father? I can't find any of them in the 1841 census for England...
Prue
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No problem Prue!
In 1841 I have Ferdinand in barracks in Marylebone and Frederick at school in Greenwich (both courtesy Rootschatters!
Other information:
Ferdinand's soldier's record from the National Archives - no mention of wife or children;
Walscourt Ferdinand's (WF) birth certificate St George Hanover Sq Apr 1842 - lists Ferdinand;
James baptism cert Syd 1844 - lists Ferdinand 'soldier with Life Guards';
Ferdinand's Death Certificate Windsor 1848;
Kezia & Thomas marriage cert Adelaide 27 Mar 1849;
WF, listed as Ferdinand Walters, arrived in Melbourne on the Daylesford Aug 1854 12 yo Unassisted passenger;
Frederick's marriage certificate 1856 m Elizabeth Priddy Lewisham Kent - father Ferd Walters (dec'd) Corporal in 2nd Life Guards;
Also Fred, WF & Kezia's death certs
Jane
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Hi Jane
Found your post through a search for Frederick Dewing (your 5G uncle who owned a property called 'Paraparap')
I have been doing some research of local history of our town Barwon Downs, Victoria which led me to Fred Dewing, as he is the first pastoralist of this district (took up land 'Paraparap' in 1838). So far I have gathered that he and (i assume) his brother Henry were born in NOR,England 1812 and OVERY ENG 1820 respectively, to parents Richard and Elizabeth. I believe Fred may have been in Van Diemens prior to Port Philip district, and there are mentions of a Captain Fred Dewing as master of the schooner "Tamar" which travelled from Launceston to Sydney over the years 1836-39. I wonder if any of this is news to you, or if you have any info to share.
We are gathering historic information for a permanent display in our town.
Regards Matt
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Goodness, Kezia was not a woman to let the grass grow under her feet!
I assume you have seen the will of Walscourt Ferdinand WALTERS, orchardist, of Alfred Crescent, Fitzroy but late of Kyabram, and owning land in Box Hill. Died 30 Aug, probate granted 30 Sept 1907. Executrix and only beneficiary is widow Kate Walters of Kyabram. Will dated 1874.
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/access/probate.asp
Cheers, Judith
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Thanks Judith, we do have a copy of WF's will. Kezia is certainly a puzzle!
Hi Matt and welcome to Rootschat! I don't have a lot of information about Captain Fred Dewing but I would be happy to share what I know. You will need to make a few more posts before I can contact you direct but meanwhile you may be interested in an article I found about his brother Williman Goss Dewing who migrated to Michigan in the US. http://kvm.kvcc.edu/content/generalinfo/museographies/Museography_IX.pdf Fred is also mentioned briefly.
His parents were Richard Dewing b c1784 North Creake, Norfolk and Elizabeth Goss Herring b 1783 Ringland, Norfolk. Richard died Mar Q 1852 Ashwicken, Norfolk, and Elizabeth died Mar Q 1874 Norwich, Norfolk.
Cheers, Jane
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Thanks for the link Jane, very interesting to learn about Fredericks brother in Kalamazoo. I am not sure the Fred that is mentioned in the article is the same as the one who settled at Paraparap, Barwon Downs.
The article places him in New York and then Kalamazoo from 1836-1841, however the Victorian records have him married in Melbourne in 1841 to Cattherine Bond and three children from 1841 to 1843.
Further,from Tasmanian Archives website (passenger search) and The Argus (through NLA website) there is mention of a Capt. fred Dewing being master of a ship "Tamar" that journeyed regularly from 1836-1839 between Launceston and Sydney, finally at Port Philip in 1839.
I wonder if the Frederick in the US is an older brother. The Victorian BDM has Fred Dewings death in 1859 mentions parents Elizabeth and Richard. Another Dewing, Henry died in 1880 same parents. Do you know of any of their other children?
Cheers Matt
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Hi Matt
The Kalamazoo dates may be inaccurate or maybe Fred was there intermittantly between those dates but I'm pretty sure its the same bloke. William's middle name is Goss, the same as his and Fred's mother. Goss was their grandmother's (IE Elizabeth Herring's mother's) maiden name.
Fred and Henry Dewing appear to be the only ones who came to Australia and I have details of their descendants and numerous siblings. I have copies of Henry and Fred's death registrations. There's also a map I found on line which shows some property in Victoria held by Henry, but I can't find the reference at the moment.
Jane
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Okay, I found the reference :) The property is in Murroon, Vic.
see: http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-rm2741-462 (http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-rm2741-462)
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Hi Jane,
Spot on with the Murroon parish - thats where I live! (although I am not on the Dewings original land. That is currently part of the Callahan family property, who have a detailed family history which include references to the Dewings. Frederick's original "station" is no longer remnant, although I'm told the site of the building is known)
From my research it is clear that Henry & Fred are the only two children to come to Aust. But I have had no luck in placing their arrival in any inward passenger lists. (My feeling is that they arrived in Port Philip via Van Diemens Land)
You might be interested to know there are refernecs to Fred Dewing in a publication "Campfires at the Cross" by Heather LeGriffon, which details a Wesleyan Mission for Aboriginals called Bunting Dale that was established north of Fred Dewings pastoral run "Paraparap" in 1839. Over the years 1839 to 1849 he co-signed letters to then Govenor Latrobe from a group of local settelrs, and donated stock to the mission.
I believe that Henry and family are buried locally at Warncoort cemetry (between Birregurra and Colac), and that Henrys decendants continued to work the Barwon Downs property until sometime after 1925....
I am not sure of the location of Freds grave.
Cheers
Matt
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Hi Matt
Small world! ;D I'll have to see if I can find a copy of Heather Le Griffon's publication as I'd be very interested to read it, espaecially as my day job is in the area of Indigenous heritage :).
I have details of Henry's burial and will check tonight to see what I have for Fred and Catherine. Some one is buried in East Geelong but I'll have to check can't recall who it was.
I have sent you a PM with my email address so if you'd care to contact me direct I can send you what info I have on Fred and Henry and their families.
Cheers, Jane
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Hello all
Re: Dewing.
My first settlers in Australia were Edward Robins and Mary Ann Dewing, who migrated here in 1836 on board the James Laing.
Mary was born in Norfolk in 1809 and gave her father as Henry. I've never been able to confirm this or take my research any further from here.
I corresponded several years ago with a Thomas Dewing who had Mary Ann in his tree as a sister to Fred and Henry. They were the children of Richard and Elizabeth Goss Herring.
Wondering whether anyone might be able to confirm or add to this?
Regards
Paul
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Hello there Paul and welcome to rootschat
Can you tell us which state of Australia did they come to ?
thanks Jenn
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Hin Jenn
They arrived at Port Jackson NSW, then moved to the Gloucester region, which is about 3 hours north of Sydney
Paul
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Children - Frederick b c1832 London (no birth record yet); Walscourt Ferdinand Walters b 4 Apr 1842 Westminster London (my 3G GF); James b 16 May 1844 chr 9 Jul 1842 Sydney (father Ferd. Walters);
Following Ferdinand's death in July 1848, she married Thomas McEnery in Adelaide 27 Mar 1849;
Kezia died in Melbourne 1895 and is buried in the Melb General Cemetery.
Its a real mystery as to why she would leave such a young child and head off to Australia. The family story is that the children were left with the Walters family, who placed them in care.
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Just sticking my nose in here...... What is odder is that they have a 10 year gap between children - so are there other children you don't currently have details for or were they somehow physically separated (e.g.. he was away fighting etc??)
Also - she was in Sydney having James - is Ferdinand with her or is he still in England? How did she get to Sydney in the 1840s to have James?
Did you know there is a 1911 death cert for a Frederick Walters (father Ferdinand/ mother's name not given) in NSW?
Also did she marry as Kezia Walters "widow" in the second marriage.
I also found a newpaper reference to your Walscourt Walters - on Trove - he's a trustee for a Wesleyan land sale - so possibly the reason you can't find the marriage is because they were Weslyan /Methodists?
Just a few thoughts....
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re: Dewing
Hi Paul
Elizabeth and Richard Dewing are my ancestors but I have found no confirmation that Mary Anne was their child (I had the same info from Thomas Dewing). She is not mentioned in Richard Dewing's 1853 Will, or his mother Alice's Will in 1831 and nor are her children.
If you can find Mary Anne's death certificate it may have her parent's names or her place of birth, if it was known to whoever registered her death.
Jane Dewing
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Hi Megan
I have contemplated that 10 year gap but have been unable to find any other children. I have Ferdinand's soldier's record and he did not serve overseas, spent most of the time at Windsor I think. And there is no reference to a wife or children. Ferdinand appears to have remained in England until his death in 1848.
I haven't found how or when Kezia arrived in NSW, only James's birth record. And both Frederick (I think I have his death cert but I'll have to check) and Walscourt came out to Australia. Kezia married as Walters single widowed so she kinda hedged her bets ;).
I hadn't thought about a non conformist marriage so that may be a whole new avenue of research!
Thanks, Jane
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Well she seems to be a bit of a non-coformist ;)
It's possible they had children who died - so you could search for deaths as well as /instead of births.
It does seem very odd that she would be on the other side of the world giving birth to a child (but making sure it was baptised??) away from her husband and presumably children.
You don't think she could have possibly committed a crime and been transported? That would seem to be a possible explanation - transportation continued until 1856. It would also give you your longed for convict :P
Just a thought!
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Hubby's side has about 30 of the bleeders :o
It was exciting to start with and then I got to the stage when I said "not another one!" :-\
I woke him up at 2 in the morning once (you all know how addictive this family history can be), excited because I'd actually found a branch of his family that had come to Aus of their own free will !!
Still, starting with a number of first fleet, our kids are 9th generation Aussies.
My family all came to Victoria, so far less interesting and as others have noted before on this thread, harder to find information about. :(
Cheers
Alison ;D
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My lot all seemed to have came out to South Australia and that was not a convict state so I can't find one either!!
I have relatives of in-laws that were convicts but I can't rightly claim them (unfortunately).
I do have some murderers and a couple of brother/sister marraiges so i will make do with that.
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I do have some murderers and a couple of brother/sister marraiges so i will make do with that.
What's the old saying - you can choose your friends but not your family?
Brother/sister marriages - to each other or brothers marrying sisters from another family ??? ??? ???
Cheers,
Alison ;D
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My grandmother always said that they came out before they got around to sending them.
Hi Prue I am sure a few people would like to know how you got the christmas hat on your gentleman photo.
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Hi
re Kezia and her arrival in Australia.
you don't mention what regiment Ferdinand served with.
British regiments served for periods of time an all british colonies. It may be that she accompanied the regiemnt to Australia but due to immenent childbirth she was left behind when they embarked to a new destination.
Ferdinand may have died before she was able to gather enough funds to return to him. Certainly the British government would not have paid to reunite them.
Searching out the movements of his regiment may provode some cleus to her unexpained arrival in Australia.
From my own research I have a soldier who came with wife and children and in all records including his comanders diaries, the soldiers own letters, and shipping manifests they are merely:
Mrs ***** and children no initials no first names.
my wife and family
wives and children of the **regiment
This is a good scources for regiments serving in Australia
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/tobegin.htm
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/other/british_army-in-aust.htm
http://members.pcug.org.au/~pdownes/keenan/index.htm
Robyn
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Hi Robyn
Good thought, but Ferdinand was in the Life Guards and as far as I can discover they did not serve overseas at any time during his service (1824 - 1848). I have a copy of his papers and there is no mention of any OS service. :( No mention of wife and children either so maybe they never married?
Jane
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i was upset as i was always told that my family was very important. so i decided to do my family tree.. and nothing i couldnt find anything. then i found out that my great great grandfather was a convict.
i dont mean to rub it in. but i truly didnt think i even had one.
anyways i went to a relatives house today. our first meeting (because i had found her family while doing the family tree) and she showed me some papers that she had in an old box, and it turns out that my great great great great grandfather was a convict from the first fleet. i am gobsmacked.
now i want to know what he did to get sent over.
the first convict i was talking about was sent over to western australia for stealing a sheep. would love to know what the other was sent out for.