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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tees on Sunday 07 January 07 21:31 GMT (UK)

Title: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: Tees on Sunday 07 January 07 21:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Rootschatters,

This is the question I always wanted to ask but never got a chance to ask!!

I noticed on few baptisms I have on some of my ancestors and they noted: conditional baptism.

What is a conditional baptism?? I always thought you have to be baptised or not at all.

But conditional one??

Hopefully, someone could enlighten me on this subject.

Thanks,

Tees
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: KathMc on Sunday 07 January 07 21:37 GMT (UK)
Tees,

Were these baptisms of adults? My great-great-grandfather was "conditionally baptised" four days before he got married and someone explained to me that there were several steps an adult had to go through to be "officially" a Catholic. I think they had to get through first communion to make it official. I don't think he ever finished with the process, as we can't find him anywhere. He is not buried with his wife in the Catholic cemetery. He is my biggest brickwall at the moment.

Kath
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: Tees on Sunday 07 January 07 21:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Kath!!

Oh, yes--two of them were adults and other is a young child.

Thank you for this explanation! Quite helpful in understanding why I have these baptisms.

Sorry about your brickwall on your great great grandfather. Hope you could find him!

Kind regards,

Tees
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 07 January 07 22:15 GMT (UK)
A baptism administered to persons in respect to whom it is doubtful whether they have or have not been baptized before.

Stan
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: behindthefrogs on Sunday 07 January 07 22:16 GMT (UK)
See the following definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_baptism

David
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: Shropshire Lass on Sunday 07 January 07 22:19 GMT (UK)
I love this site!  The questions raised are always teaching me new things.

Keep on asking those questions -
Monica
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 07 January 07 22:29 GMT (UK)
In the Church of England this is known as a Hypothetical baptism. Spurious Baptism meant an illegitimate child. The term “half-baptized” refers to private ceremonies; it is defined in the N.E.D. “To baptize privately or without full rites, as a child in danger of death.”
Where a private baptism is employed, there is a further rite (if the child survives) of reception into church. Some vicars used "Christening" to mean the public part of the rite, so "Baptism" is the parts that are common to public and private baptism.  However, in normal usage they are just different words for the same thing.

Stan
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: Shropshire Lass on Sunday 07 January 07 22:55 GMT (UK)
Like Stan says, I have some parish records entries which say "Christened privately on (date), received into Church on (date).  Dates were usually a few weeks apart, presumably when the child was well enough to go through the public ceremony.

Would the first baptism be done by a vicar at the house or just by a family member?

I know that in the Catholic church, anyone can perform a baptism on a baby in the event of serious illness

Monica
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: behindthefrogs on Sunday 07 January 07 23:04 GMT (UK)
Just to clarify what stanmapstone is saying.

A hypothetical baptism is probably the same as a conditional baptism.  Tha is the baptism of someone who has possibly already been baptised.

Half baptised, private baptism and spurious baptism all mean something different
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 07 January 07 23:07 GMT (UK)

Would the first baptism be done by a vicar at the house or just by a family member?

I know that in the Catholic church, anyone can perform a baptism on a baby in the event of serious illness

Monica


This what "the Book of Common Prayer" states
And also they shall warn them, that without like great cause and necessity they procure not their Children to be baptized at home in their houses. But when need shall compel them so to do, then the Minister of the Parish shall administer Baptism (or, in his absence, any other lawful Minister that can be procured).

And let them not doubt, but that the Child so baptized is lawfully and sufficiently baptized, and ought not to be baptized again. Yet nevertheless if the Child, which is after this sort baptized, do afterward live, it is expedient that it be brought into the Church. If the Minister of the Parish baptized the Child, he may certify to the Congregation of the true Form of the Baptism, privately at such a time and such a place before witnesses.
If the Child were baptized by any other lawful Minister, then the Minister of the Parish shall examine those that bring the Child to the Church to determine whether the Child be lawfully baptized or no. If all things were done, as they ought to be, then he shall not baptise the Child again.

Shall – indicates compulsion in official documents [Collins English Dictionary]


Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 07 January 07 23:15 GMT (UK)
Just to add that it has always been recognized in ecclesiastical law that a layman can baptize in an emergency. In the Middle Ages midwives were licensed by bishops with that eventuality in mind, and they were advised that they should under no circumstances neglect baptism in the presence of witnesses if there was any likelihood of a child dying before the arrival of a priest.
Stan
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: Tees on Monday 08 January 07 03:52 GMT (UK)
What fascinating contributions being made to this post!! Did not expect so many replies!!  :)

Quite informative and will be useful in explaining these baptism records I have.

I thank all of you for taking time to explain and giving information to me and other Rootschatters who may do not know about this!

Thanks to Stan, Monica, Behindthefrogs and David!

Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: loo on Monday 08 January 07 05:29 GMT (UK)
Stan's definition is correct. 
Sometimes people really don't know if they were baptized, as very few of us can remember, and their parents may be deceased so cannot comment.  I have more than once run into people who thought they had been baptized as infants but, when they tried to get the record, there was none.  The reverse also happens, particularly in families where there is no intention to raise the child in the church community.   So, sometimes the clergyperson is left in the dilemma of not knowing.  It is wrong to baptize twice if you know you are doing it, because it is, by definition, a once-in-a-lifetime event.  Hence, "conditional" baptism, to deal with such eventualities.  There are some people who appear to be so fascinated/obsessed by baptism and the supposed washing-away of sins, that they ask for it repeatedly, in various churches;  this is another problem that the clergyperson has to deal with.
Christen and baptize are the same phenomena, but words change with fashion, ecclesiastical and otherwise.
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: Lydart on Monday 08 January 07 17:15 GMT (UK)
I'd agree with all the above ... and would add that anyone of 'good standing' in their church (i.e. a baptised Christian) ... can baptise a child in an emergency if there is no priest available.   You should also have permission of the parent or responsible adult, and try to find out if the child has already been baptised.  Once is quite adequate !

The words to be used are:- “I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

If there is uncertainty as to whether or not the child has been baptised, then the words to use are:-  “If you are not already baptized, I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Ideally, (but we are talking emergencies here) these words should be accompanied by water being splashed or gently poured three times on the candidates head ... anything else such as annointing with oil or special blessings can be done later by the priest. 

The local priest should be informed of what was done, when and why ...

Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: samalexander on Tuesday 12 March 24 11:59 GMT (UK)
My ancestor from Armagh had a conditional baptism as a child, one parent seems to have been COI and the other RC. He went on to grow up and marry his RC wife in the RC church and all kids were raised RC so for my family the conitional baptism was important because his father may have attempted to raise his son COI but his mother ensured he was raised Catholic.
Title: Re: What is a conditional baptism??
Post by: coombs on Tuesday 12 March 24 13:09 GMT (UK)
My great grandmother was baptised twice. Once as a baby in 1895 in Oxford, and again as a 14 year old in Hackney, London in March 1910. Not sure if her 2nd baptism was a "conditional baptism" but it is likely. She was living in a Hackney convent in 1910 while training for domestic service. If I had not found a useful for once Ancestry hint listing her 1910 baptism, which matched her details precisely, I may never have known about her time in Hackney. She was in Sussex by the 1911 census.