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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: eric on Sunday 07 January 07 11:01 GMT (UK)
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I.m stuck can anyone help me,, I have the above Francis Groom 1806 in Wellington, Shropshire, but can't find his parentage. It would appear that he had two wives Sussannah Timmis, his second wife appears to be Mary Ann Timmis.
Regards, Eric
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Hi Eric
Have you got him on the various censuses? Only in 51 he is with Maryann and has a 20 year old son William. William is not with him in 41 only a 14 year old Richard, Sarah presumably already dead? A 10 year old William is with a Richard Groom 65 and Catherine 55 and others in Wellington. Would you like details as it is very likely these are his parents. Also on later censuses Francis appears with wife Margaret so looks like he married 3 times.
Jan ;)
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Hi Eric,
There is an "extracted record" on www.familysearch.org of the baptism of a Francis Gromm 4 April 1806 in Wellington, Shropshire with parents shown as Rd Gromm (Richard?) and Cath.
Could this be your man?
Nanny Jan
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Hi Janan and JAN,
Many thanks for your replies,they look most interesting,I would be very pleased with your offers of more background info. The possability of three marriages makes it more complicated. My direct line from Francis is the son John Groom born 1850, was his mother Margaret or was it some one else? John Groom 1850 Married Hannah Yapp 1845 on June 6th.1874
i look foreward to your replies, I' m finding it most complicated. Once more my very grateful thanks. Eric.
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Hi Eric
Here they are in 1851
Jan ;)
Arleston
Francis Groom Head Mar 45 Woodman Salop Wellington
Mary Ann do Wife 38 Salop Ludlow
William do Son U 20 Woodman do do
Ann do Dau 5 do do
Francis do Son 3 do do
John do do 1 do do
Sarah Lomas Serv U 18 do do
HO107/1997/329 Pg19
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1841
New St Wellington
Francis Groom 35 Sawyer
Richard do 14 do
William Mcleary 24
Henry Dodd 14 Potters mate
All born in county except Henry
HO107/907/2/35 Pg14
New St Wellington
Richard Groom 60 Ti?? M
Catherine do 55
John do 25 Cabe Mak
Richard do 20 Chair M
William do 10
Isaac Parker 10
All born in county
HO107/907/235 Pg15
Jan ;)
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Hi Janan,
You have solved one problem for me, I now believe I know who John Grooms mother is. I previousely believed it to be Margaret.
Very many thanks. Eric.
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Hi Janan,
On my first reply I did not notice the 1841 and 1851 Census, It would appear that Richard Groom and wife Catherine are the parents of Francis 1806. It does now mean more sence to me now. Many thanks. Eric.
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Hi Eric
You really need John's birth certficate to confirm his mother's name then you could look for a marriage between her and Francis circa 1845? From 1861 Francis's wife is Margaret not Mary Ann but since she is roughly same age and still gives birthplace as Ludlow, I wonder if she is the same person.
Jan ;)
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Missed your second reply there :D
The baptism Nanny Jan found plus the presence of 10 year old William with Richard and Catherine does seem to indicate they are Francis's parents - the marriage cert between him and Mary Ann/Margaret would confirm father's name for you.
Happy hunting
Jan ;)
Margaret is a widow by 1881. Do you want the 1861/71 entries?
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Hi JANAN,
Further entries would be a great help.
Many thanks. Eric
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1861
Road, Private House, Wellington
Francis Groom Head Mar 55 Manager of timberyard and ??? of 11 or 12 acres Wellington
Margeret Groom Wife 45 Ludlow
Annie do Dau 15 Scholar Wellington
Francis do Son 13 Pupil Teacher do
John do do 11 Scholar do
Maria do dau 9 do do
Jane do do 6 do do
George do Son 4 do
Margeret do dau 10 mo do
Harriet Jones Serv u 19 House servant do
RG9/1898/46 Pg8/9
Jan ;)
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1871
Walker St Wellington
Francis Groom Head Mar 65 Foreman in timberyard Wellington
Margaret do Wife 56 Dressmaker Ludlow
Maria do Dau 19 do Arleston
Jane do do 16 do do
George do Son 14 scholar do
Margaret do Dau 10 do do
RG10/2806/78 Pg14/15
Jan ;)
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Despite the 2 Margarets only gaining 10 years in 20 ;D ??? I'm pretty sure this must be them as Jane fits from 61/71.
Jan ;)
1891
72 New St Wellington
Arthur Bourne Head M 36 Carver and gilder Gloucs Cheltenham
Jane Bourne Wife 35 Wellington
Margaret Groom Mother in law Wid 64 Living on her own means Ludlow
Margaret do Sister in law S 20 Fancy goods assistant Wellington
Martha Swineston Serv S 17 General servant (domestic) Salop Bridgenorth
RG12/2131/25 Pg1
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Janan,
Many thanks, the Census reports are gratefully received, it is quite surprising what they turn up and the useful info it's possible to glean from them.
I'm still slightly puzzled, Francis Groom appears to have married three times, two of his wives appear to the Timmis sisters. How did he manage to get by the "Desceased sisters marriage Act" ? It was not allowed until 1907 to marry a desceased sister until the law was changed. Regards, Eric.
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Wellington 1821 Census New Street
Richard Groom 40 Basket Maker
Cate 39
Mary 18
William 17
Francis 15
Cate 10
Ann 8
John 6
Thomas 4
Richard 2
Female 3 days
Other Grooms on New Street
Ann 63 lodger
William 30 Basket Maker
Elizabeth 27
Maria 21 lodger
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RICHARD GROOM
CATHERINE PRINNOCK
Marriage: 02 MAR 1802 Eyton Upon The Weald Moors, Shropshire, England
Batch No M037441
I think this is probably the marriage of Richard and Catherine.
I have two marriages in my tree around this time that took place at Eyton when the couple were both from Wellington. It appears the vicar at Wellington refused to marry non-conformists in his church. Dawley was the same. The nearest options were Eyton for Wellington, and Little Wenlock for Dawley.
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From IGI, baptisms with parents Richard & Catherine
WM GROOM
07 JUL 1805 Wellington, Shropshire
FRANCIS GROMM
04 APR 1806 Wellington, Shropshire
RICHARD GROOM
05 JUN 1808 Wellington
(Burial 21 May 1815 Aged 7 Wellington All Saints, per NBI)
CATHARINE GROOM
09 SEP 1810 Wellington, Shropshire
ANN GROOM
14 OCT 1812 Wellington, Shropshire
JOHN GROOM
06 NOV 1814 Wellington, Shropshire
JANE GROOM
06 JUN 1821 Wellington, Shropshire
ELIZABETH GROOM
11 MAY 1823 Wellington, Shropshire
I think this is the baptism of the second Richard, although no surname is recorded
RICHARD
06 DEC 1818 Wellington, Shropshire, England
Father: RICHARD
Mother: CAT.
The 'female' in the 1821 Census must have been Jane. I can't find a baptism for Mary or Thomas Groom.
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Hi Janan.
I am truely grateful for the help you have so kindly given me on the Groom family. Thank you so very much for the help and time you have me on this research.
Thank you, Kind regards, Eric.
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Hi Eric
The latest info was from alnat not me :)
Fantastic info too, 1821 census amazing and with family member details!
Was Wellington special in this respect Alnat? Other older censuses I've seen only give head of household by name.
Jan ;)
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I'm not sure as I have never known any other 1821s be available. I only have a transcript, not a copy of the original. It's available from Salopian Family History Company, cost me about £5 to download it a couple of years ago. Worth every penny both for myself and others I've been able to help.
I had their transcripts of 1841s for the area before they were generally available and they were good value and pretty accurate.
Update, the Wellington 1821 now costs £6 and they have 1831 Wrockwardine Wood for £2 (probably doesn't have as much info???)
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Hi Alnat,
I was so excited by th info you gave me, I over looked who I was writting back too.
Very many thanks the info was brilliant,
Kind regards, Eric.