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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: jmack on Friday 05 January 07 18:44 GMT (UK)
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Dear All:
My g g grandfather (Kenneth Mackenzie) gives his place of birth as Lochbroom, as i understand it this is a parish and not a village/town. Is this correct and if so does anyone have any ideas as to how I track his place of birth to a more specific location.
Jane
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Hi Jane
I'm sure you'll get the help you need.......we just need a little bit more info to help you :)
What information do you have on Kenneth. Have you got an approx. birth year for him? Also details of who he married and children that you know of. Have you managed to find him on any censuses. As much info you have would help when people are doing searches for you.
Regards.
Monica
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Thanks for replying - Kenneth has really become a brick wall to me.
I know that he was born around 1830 Lochbroom. Family stories and census evidence indicate that as a fisherman he left Rossshire to work in the waters of Caithness. While there he met and married Margaret Murray in Wick and they had five children, Hector, Janet, Alexander, Kenneth and Donald. From 1851 on I can track his whereabouts as he and his family move from Wick through Falkirk to Manchester (England). We believe that he had a brother Murdo/Murdoch but other than this scant piece of information we have no details to go any further back. We believe that he lived out his years in a house in Achtilbuie that was purchased for him by his son but again no concrete proof.
I am aware that this is very little to go on which is why it's so frustrating and why i need some help/advice.
Many thanks
Jane
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Hi Jane
I live in the old Lochbroom parish. It stretched from Muir of Ord to Ullapool and Ciogach in the West.
I'll have a look for you but can't promise anything. Many of the people at that time were crofter/fishermen. Those on the west coat went over to the east seasonally for economic reasons. It was also a time when there were great changes up here.
Regards
Gadget
Ooops - I see Achiltibuie mentioned ;D
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The main families of Mackenzies in Achiltibuie are in Altandhu, Polbain,Achnahaird and Achiltibuie itself. The area is a remote rugged land with scattered townships. The whole is referred to as Coigach. The postal address is Achiltibuie (I can type it very fast :) :) :) ) but it is 15 miles from end to end.
I know most of the MacKenzies who remained here.
Gadget :)
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I can't pin point one Kenneth MacKenzie but you may be interested in this site:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/achil.htm
Gadget
PS - do you have any idea where in Achiltibuie the house was?
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Hi Jane
I'm getting Kenneth's birth year c. 1826 from both the 1851 and 61 censuses. Is this Margaret's birth entry: 02 NOV 1827 Wick, Caithness, Scotland, with parents Alexander and Janet?
If so, this leaves a possible name for Kenneth's father of Hector, as name of first born son following their marriage in 1853.
Have you tried searching for the death cert of Kenneth in R & C?
Regards.
Monica
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Monica - I have and nothing comes up. If he died Achiltibuie his info is probably on the link that I have given above.
gadget
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Dear Monica and Gadget:
Thanks for the interest. Yes you are right the birth year does appear to be circa 1826 (on later census the age is rounded). I cannot find a death certificate for Kenneth in R & C, this is a family story that i cannot prove. His last known address is in Banff 1901 living with his daughter and family. Shortly after the 1901 census was taken, the daughter dies and the story goes that Kenneth then moved to Achiltibuie where he was a lay preacher.
I too thought that the father could be Hector but searches do not show a Hector with a son by the name of Kenneth. I have checked out the rootsweb pages and have manged to eliminate one or two of the 20 or so Kenneth Mckenzies. At the moment I am pretty much focused on one Kenneth in particular - the son of Murdo and Mary Mackenzie (nee Kerr) (Reiff) - this Kenneth has a uncle Hector. I have no idea as to how to establish this as my Kenneth.
Please let me know what you think.
Many thanks
Jane
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Hi Jane
Reiff is definitely Achiltibuie - the NW of the peninsular
I'll ask some locals if you like - they have long memories :)
Gadget
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Jane
if you go here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/n41reiff.htm
and then Reiff-41-4 there is a Hector MacKenzie and wife Catherine with probable sons Murdo (20-24) and Duncan (10).
They are also further down the page in the 1851.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/n51reiff.htm
Gadget
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Gadget:
Much appreciated - I'm not getting definite answers but I feel like i am beginning to get somewhere with this, fingers crossed.
Thanks
Jane
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I'll ask around this weekend, Jane. The records for here are a wee bit hit and miss for that time. That's why the site I referred you to is such a Godsend.
Someone up at Reiff might well know/remember him or stories about him.
Another problem, of course, is that often they went by different names than their baptismal name :-\
Be in touch if I get any info for you.
Regards
Gadget
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Here's a photo of the graveyard at Badenscallie - used by everyone in Coigach. If he died at Reiff or locally, he might well have been buried here.
Gadget
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Gadget:
Wonderful - thanks.
One or two points about him that may have stood out - apparently he was badly scarred following a fishing accident (visible or not i don't know), he was a lay preacher and the son that supposedly bought the house in Achiltibuie was a big wig banker from South Africa.
Don't know if any of this matters but it is all the info I have to go on.
Many thanks
Jane
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Hi Jane
I've been out spreading the word about your Kenneth. There is now a three pronged attack :D :D :D
Local knowledge
Old burial records
Local records
It might take a while - it is still New Year here but we'll all do our best for you up here ;D ;D ;D
I'll be in touch when I get some deffo information
Regards
Gadget
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Gadget:
Thanks again
Jane
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Hi Jane
To help me get a clearer picture, could you give his locations on each of the censuses that you have, please.
Gadget
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Gadget:
Here's what I have
1841 - unknown
1851 - Wick, Caithness, Lodger age 25 Day Labourer
1853 - Marries in Wick to Margaret Murray, occupation given as Fisherman, his parents names are not listed on the marriage extract.
Their children are born:
Hector 1854
Janet 1857
Alexander 1859
Kenneth 1863
Donald 1866
at a number of addresses around Wick Caithness.
1861 census - Argyle Square, Wick.
1871 census - unknown
1881 census - Falkirk, Stirlingshire
1891 census - Manchester, England
1901 census - Keith, Banff - living with his daughter Janet/Jessie and family.
On all census he gives his place of birth as Lochbroom, Rossshire except for the 1901 where he states he was born in Ullapool. Family stories though say Achiltibuie (most confusing). Family stories also state that in order to reach his home he would have travelled over water - could this be a boat out of Ullapool to reach the more remote areas of the peninsula?
Many, many thanks
Jane
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Thanks for that. It will help with talking to the local people who may have links with the family.
Even today a boat from Ullapool would be a much faster way of getting to anywhere on the Coigach peninsular. By road, Achiltibuie (the main township) is about 26 miles, 16 miles of which are single track. This takes about 45 minutes outside of the main tourist season. By sea, it would take maybe 20 mins!
Here's a map:
http://tinyurl.com/sjhso
Gadget :)
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Hello Jane
i have now searched through all the burial records and haven't found him. Kenneth McKenzie obviously didn't die in Coigach. NOne of the death registrations seem to point to him in the area either - or Dingwall or Inverness if he was hospitalised, etc. The other local records will take a bit longer to search.
Re his death location - apart from a daughter in Banff and a son in South Africa, where elese would his children have been located in say 1900- 1920?
Gadget
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Gadget:
Thanks for looking. It would appear that the story of a well to do Hector buying his Dad a place in Achiltibuie is just that - a story - maybe he paid for him a trip there, who knows.
His other children were located in the Lancashire area of England. An argument with his son is what prompted him return to Scotland and we have no evidence that this rift was ever healed so i don't think he returned to England.
It looks like I am going to have to trace the Banff descendants and see if they can shed any light on this mystery.
Many thanks for all your help.
Jane
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Jane ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Good news
I've found him and he died Laide of Reiff (I know who lives there now as well :) )
19th October 1919*, Kenneth MacKenzie, general labourer, widr of Margaret Murray, aged 96.
Parents - Hector Mackenzie Crofter (dec) and Catherine m.s. Maclean (dec).
Cause of death - old age and general weakness. Informant - Mary Dewar, grand niece -present.
So it was most likely the family that I referred you to in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
I'm dead chuffed :D :D :D
Gadget
* marginal note The date was originally put in as 1911. The marginal note says 'clerical error col 2 and 8'. These are the date columns.
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In the 1841 Hector and Catherine were both 50-54. I think they were both on the 1851 as well.
I'll check for their deaths.
Gadget
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Kenneth's father's death:
August 4th 1860, Laide of Reiff
Hector MacKenzie, tenant, married, age 76.
Parents - Murdo(ch) Mackenzie, tenant (dec0 and Mary , m.s. McLean (dec)
Cause of death - old age - about a month. Informant - Hector MacKenzie, son
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Kenneth's mother's death:
Sept 3 1861, Laide of Reiff
Catherine MacKenzie, widow of Hector MacKenzie, tenant, aged 81.
Parents - Donald Maclean, boat carpenter (dec) and Christina m.s. Maclean (dec).
Cause - old age - 3 months. Informant - Murdoch MacKenzie, son
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Jane
I missed this on the refs I gave you on the Reiff censuses:
The christening of Kenneth (not present on this census) to father Hector McKenzie was recorded 2 March 1824,
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There is masses about the family on the two refs to the Donald MacDonald Ross site - including contacts in New Zealand.
Jane
if you go here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/n41reiff.htm
and then Reiff-41-4 there is a Hector MacKenzie and wife Catherine with probable sons Murdo (20-24) and Duncan (10).
They are also further down the page in the 1851.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/n51reiff.htm
Gadget
Catherine's marriage to Hector appears to have been a second marriage. her first was to a Maclean, although she was also a Maclean by birth.
When this stormy weather clears, I'll go up and take some photos of Laide of Reiff for you. I might be able to find the old croft house ruins. The current house was built in the last 30 years or so.
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This might also be of interest:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/duncan.htm
This is the statement made by Duncan MacKenzie of Reiff to the Napier Commission of 1883. The Report of this Commisssion led to the Crofting Act and security of tenure for the people of the Highlands after the Clearances of the nineteenth century.
Duncan would have either been Kenneth's brother or a cousin. A family that any Highlander would be proud of.
Gadget
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Hi again Jane -
I hope you've recovered :)
I've just received this info from the person whose website I referred you to (he saw this thread) and asked me to put it up, so I think you'll have yet more relations :):
The MacKenzies at Reiff have an interesting history,
seemingly starting with with Murdo arriving shortly
after the 1745 Rebellion. Family stories have Murdo as
a descendant of the House of Gairloch, who fled to
Coigach as a Jacobite.
Murdo was mistaken as "Nasty Murdo of the Sheath
Knives" in a 1950s audio recording recently dug up,
transcribed, and translated by Donald William Stewart
of the School of Scottish Studies. Murdo of Reiff was
a descendant of that earlier Murdo, an illustrated
book on "Nasty Murdo" has been published, interesting
that the illustater, Diyanne Ross is a descendant of
Murdo (and a cousin of mine).
I am still working on the connection between the
MacKenzie families at Reiff and at Achiltibuie in the
mid 18th century, the second family also noted as
descendants of Nasty Murdo, and involved in the grain
trade, and as postmasters at Ullapool, at the same
time the Reiff MacKenzies had a mill at Faochag, and
included runners of post.
Many of the Reiff MacKenzie descendants are also
cousins of mine, through common MacDonald and MacLeod
ancestors at Reiff, so I have more data than is on my
website regarding the descendancy. I have a file full
of data on the previous and current generations of the
Reiff MK family, 1,338 people, including details
researched by many of the descendants, not online as
it includes many living people, but I am happy to
share it with descendants.
My next task is to get him to join Rootschat ;D ;D ;D
I'll send you his contact details through the 'usual channels'.
Enjoy...
Gadget ;D ;D ;D
For anyone interested in the history and families of the Coigach area of Wester Ross, this website is a must:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~coigach/index.htm
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Short message, third attempt, argggg
If this gets through I'll try to add more to the discussion...
Donald.
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Accckkk....
Sorry, did not realize the attached photo would not be automatically reduced in size...
The house in the photo is cousin Brenda's at Reiff, she is also a cousin of Jane.
All bthe best,
Donald.
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Hi Donald :)
Wellcome to Rootschat - I'm glad this thread has got you on board. You can even get free web space, etc. here ;D
The image attachment should be about 500 pixel or less wide - I've attached a version here
Best
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget,
I had wrongly assumed the board's software would resize pics to a percentage of screen width, rather than absolute pixels... not a great photo to add to a profile as it looses clarity as it shrinks, I'll root around in my files later for sumpin more suitable!
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Donald:
Glad to see you on the board and thanks for the picture.
Jane