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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sallysmum on Saturday 30 December 06 17:03 GMT (UK)
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2xgt grandmother's husband is listed as a 'pauper cordwainer' on the 1851 census. They are not in the workhouse so I'm rather in the dark as to what this description means.
Sallysmum
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Perhaps they were on Parish Relief of some sort.
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Pauper means exactly what it means today - penniless and without the means to support yourself so I expect Liz is right and they were receiving parish relief or living with relatives. Cordwainer (or shoemaker) was presumably the occupation they followed before they fell on hard times.
If the Parish Chest records exist for that particular area then you might be able to get further details about them from that. The local record office will know.
Andrea
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Agree with sillgen. Without the means to support oneself.
yn9man
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Hmm It's interesting that they had staying with them their 10 year old grandaughter. The granddaughter's mother lived 2 doors away with her husband and rest of the family.
Did the workhouse not replace poor relief or was poor relief tendered aswell?
sallysmum
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Wonder if the granddaughter was just visiting the day of the census?
yn9man
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Did the workhouse not replace poor relief or was poor relief tendered aswell?
It would have been cheaper to support a person with parish relief in their own home rather than taking them into the workhouse ... often many people refused to go to the workhouse partially because of their reputations and partially because of a fear of never getting out of there
some articles can be read at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~todmordenandwalsden/parishes.htm
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Many paupers receiving out-relief still had some employment, hence 'pauper cordwainer'.
Stan
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A pauper was a recipient of relief under the provisions of the Poor Law or of public charity. The workhouse was not considered an appropriate remedy for short periods of industrial distress, and at such times out-relief was resorted to, while charitable responses such as the soup kitchen were common. Until the passage of the 1908 Old Age Pensions Act, which gave people aged 70 and over, a pension if they filled certain criteria, these were the only options available.
Out- relief was also cheaper than the workhouse. For every £1 spent on out-relief in 1902-3 no less than £7 12s. 4d. was expended on in-maintenance.
Stan
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Just to add that despite the intentions of the 1834 Poor Law Act, the vast majority - even up to 90 percent in the early 1860's - received outdoor relief (- i.e. outside the work house, not as an inmate). This relief took the form of a small sum of money (one or two shillings), or income in kind (usually loaves of bread) or both. it was normally granted for reasons like the death of a husband, sickness, desertion by the husband, age and infirmity and occasionally it was granted to able bodied men out of work.
Stan
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Hmm It's interesting that they had staying with them their 10 year old grandaughter. The granddaughter's mother lived 2 doors away with her husband and rest of the family.
sallysmum
Perhaps the presence of a 'dependant' enhanced the amount of relief the Parish would give.
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Perhaps the presence of a 'dependant' enhanced the amount of relief the Parish would give.
All it means is that she was with them on the night of the census, she could just be staying with them on the Sunday and gone home on the Monday morning. :)
Stan
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There's no way of knowing for sure but in addition to the suggestions already given - a ten year old would have been considered quite old enough to live-in with older relatives to help them with household tasks. Or maybe the other family home was overcrowded and the grandparents had room for her?
Monica
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Thanks for all the replies to this post. I also received a PM which I also thought very relevant William was 81 and his wife 74. This reply gives more food for thought -
Unfortunately you do not give any indication of age but it is likely he was a retired cordwainer living just above the poverty line.
Possibly still doing some leather work occasionally.
I guess we will never know why the granddaughter was with William and Elizabeth - was she living or visiting? I mentioned that her mother lived 2 doors away, this was with her husband who was probably not the father of the child which adds more intrigue. Many thanks for all your enlightening replies.
Sallysmum
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I did not understand the meaning of the term either.. my grt grt grandfather was noted in the census and at his death as a pauper he was living with his wife at both the census time and at his death..according to the census record again she was employed..however an earlier census stated that he was blind so I have just put it down as to being unable to work and support himself.....previously he was a farm worker in the Livingston area Scotland
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The shame of needing parish relief must have been ingrained. My mother remembers my grandfather - born in 1881- not wanting to take his pension as he saw that as charity!
I have just found my great great grandparents in South Creake listed as paupers in 1881 - they were both in their early 60s. My g-g grandmother was just listed as a widow in 1891.
In 1861 my paternal gg grandfather, a widower, was lodging with a couple who were listed as paupers in Clenchwarton.
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My ancestor was a servant and army pensioner. He much have been quite poor as his wife died of a long illness and was buried in a paupers grave, the records say parish expense.
So he could not afford to bury her, he had to get the parish to pay for her burial. Usually they used a very cheap coffin.
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After further research I discovered that the reason for my grt. grt. grandfather being classed as a pauper was that he was blind and unable to earn a wage.... So sometimes it's more beneficial to do more research you never know what you can find happy hunting