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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Derbyshire => England => Derbyshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ruthy on Thursday 28 December 06 15:09 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am looking for info on the above person, and his parents. He was born in 1761, and married in Eckington to an Elizabeth Nightingale in 1789. She was fron Beighton (sometimes referred to as Derbyshire, sometimes Yorkshire). I don't know where he was from, but they established a family in and died in Belper. I guess he would be from one of the three places!! Any help would be most welcome.
Thanks
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Hi,
This is not an answer to your question, but thought you may be interested in
the following link, which is for the Strutt's Mill School at Belper the records commence
1818. As you will see the records for the boys are excellent, however the girls records
are not so good.
There is a Woodhouse Varney listed born abt 1823, with such an unusual name
thought this may be a Grandson of your Woodhouse, you may also find other relatives
attending school.
Click here: very long link (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:eYJvn_4DwtAJ:www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/Belper/StruttSchoolindex.html+Strutt+School+admission+records&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=2)
When did your Woodhouse Varney die?
Regards
Spendlove
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Hi
A Happy New Year to you, and thank you for your info - very interesting records, and I feel sure the Woodhouse on the school records you mention must be a grandson, although I haven't researched it yet.
My Woodhouse Varney died in Oct 1832 and is buried at St Peters Church, Belper. He worked in Belper as a nailor.
I think it most likely that he was born in Belper, but I haven't had chance to get to the records office. If any friendly chatters happen to be going I would be very interested to see if there was someone of this name listed in Belper born 1761,and any parents. In the meantime I will add it to my list of Resolutions to get there myself!!
Thanks again
Ruthy
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I have read your messages re Woodhouse Varney, who died in Belper in 1832.
I am a direct ancestor of Woodhouse, and was born in Belper in 1946.
I have been unable to find any record of his birth, certainly not in the parish records of Duffield ( of which Belper was a part in the 18th Century). The Varney family seems to have settled in Belper around 1700....there are records of Varneys (or Verneys) in nearby places in Derbyshire from 1400 onwards....they seem to have been yeoman stock at that time.
He was actually buried in the grounds of the St Johns Chaplaincy, since St Peters was not built until after his death. The records were transferred when St Peters was opened.
I have looked up the record of his marriage in Eckington. He must have been working there since the wedding banns were called there. He was a nailor at the time of his marriage....I think that it was not unknown for nailors to move around for work at this time. Virtually all the Varneys were nailors in the 1800-1880 period....there were about 3 families at the time, I guess they probably had a common ancestor. Belper was a very small...and quite widespread...community until Strutt built his cotton mills in the late 1700's. This also seems to have led to a big upsurge in the nailing trade in the town in the late 1700's, when the town expanded from 700-800 to over 10,000 in the space of a few years.
The other Woodhouse Varney was a grandson of Woodhouse senior.....the only son of Samuel. After some time as a child in the cotton mill he seems to have escaped on to the canal. He married in Lincolnshire....perhaps into a barging family? His father Samuel may have been a 'bad lot', he may have been before the magistrates for assault and theft, and possibly even transported to Australia.
Robert Varney
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Hi,
St. Peter's Church in Belper was opened & consecrated by Bishop Ryder in
1824, so it is more than likely that Woodhouse varney was buried there in 1832.
Spendlove.
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How exciting - a distant link I think there Bovar.
Very interesting reading about the Nailors - quite a raucous lot I hear! The Grandson Woodhouse was on a vessel on the Humber in the 1860's. The Vessel was called the Good Intent, and he was a Mate waterman, with the Master waterman being a George Fish. His son lived in Hull. I am interested to learn more about his father.
I actually have a family tree descended from the 1761 Woodhouse Varney which was kindly sent to me by a researcher in New Zealand. I think I can see you on it, but no detail. I'm sure the researcher would be pleased for you to fill her in. If you go to www.Belper-research.com (it is on the resources page too) and go to links there is a Varney family tree, and I think there is an email there. The tree there is from a Henry Verney, and our Woodhouse links into it tenuously via a marriage of Robert Varney (parents Samuel Varney and Mary Walker ) on that tree to an Elizabeth Boot whose mother was Marianne Varney of our tree.
Of our tree - we are descended from Woodhouse Varneys youngest son Joseph b1814 as I think you are. Then my line is through his son Samuel (married to Jane Groves) - (yours seems to be through another son Alfred) and on to Charles b.1874 who was my gt.gt. grandfather. My mothers maiden name was Varney, but as she was one of 3 girls the name has gone.
I am happy to forward the family tree, but I don't know how to - if anyone could advise - I have it as an email. Also I have an email for the NZ researcher, but I would ask them first if I could pass it to you. They would be pleased to have the tree updated if there is anything to add as would I.
Do let me know any further info you find, and also if you would like the tree.
Ruthy
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Hi
Little more information.
The following is Land which was owned by various Varney people living in Belper in 1791, this information is take from the 1791 Inclosure Award of Belper. The plot numbers given refer to Ancient Enclosed Land Holdings, these holdings gave them rights to graze there live stock on the Common. This Common land 'Belper Ward' was enclosed and those with rights to common i.e. holders of ancient enclosed land were all awarded their share of the Common according to the size of the land they already held.
( Hope you all understand)
Ancient Enclosed Plot No. Area of Land
John Varney Junior 59 1 Rood 13 Perch
John Varney Snr & Samuel Hunt } 89 22 Perch
} 200 1 Rood 04 Perch
John Varney Snr 60 04 Perch
Plot 60 is probably where John Varney Snr Lived as it is described as
Homestead, next door John Junior Plot 59 described as Orchard.
This information I transcribed from the Belper Enclosure Award 1791, held at County Record
Office, Matlock.
Spendlove
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Thanks Spendlove,
This is all fascinating, I understand your description of how the land was allocated - gradually building a picture of the Varney lives. I am keen to get to Belper when I get chance. I never would have thought to look at the Enclosure Act though so thanks for sharing this with me.
Ruthy
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My Mother was Alice Varney I believe a direct decentant of Woodhouse Varney Her father was Walter Varney and he was a Blacksmith in Hull He Married Anne Elizabeth Goulding in 1894 I have been trying to trace my family for a while now it would be nice to swap findings with someone on same line
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Hi there,
The plot thickens....
I have had a look on my information to see how your line links back, and this is what I can find. As I said above the oldest Woodhouse Varney b.1761 had a son Samuel who married Ann Jackson - their only son was a Woodhouse Varney b.1824. He wandered around on the waterways, and married Louisa Burtonshaw in Gainsborough Lincs. He was a waterman in Hull in the 1860's. They had a son, Henry, who married Mary Elizabeth Colley in 1872 in Owston Ferry, Lincs. In 1881 he was described as a shoeing smith in Hull :
Henry Varney head - aged 31
Mary Elizabeth wife - 35
Arthur - son 12
Walter - son 7
Louisa - daur 5
Alice - daur - 2
I can only find Louisa in the 1891 census as a servant
1901 Walter aged 27 in Hull - blacksmith
Annie - wife 28
Mary E daur - 4
Annie - 2
Timothy J - 5 mths
Does this shed any light? - I presume they had more children one of which was Alice?
have a look on www.familysearch.org
Look forward to hearing any more
Ruthy
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I was just checking your data to mine. I have Arthur Varney born c1868 listed on the 1881 census as Henry's brother in-law not his son. I haven't found the right place for him yet though.
It's a tangled web of Varneys I am still working on it!
Julie in NZ
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Yes you are right - he is down as brother in law, thanks for the alert - it is certainly a tangled web!
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In fact Bijoux I think you may be the person who helped me initially with the whole Varney tree a ear or two ago - can you remember? It made such a difference - thanks for that :D
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I have found out some more information about Samuel Varney, eldest son of Woodhouse senior, and father of Woodhouse junior.
As I inferred before, Samuel seems to have had problems with the law, see this page from WIRKSWORTH Parish Records-Quater -Sessions 1770-1625.
www.wirksworth.org.uk/CRM16.htm
He got off 3 times before being convicted and sentenced to 7 years transportation ( for stealing dishes and milk ).
This is confirmed in the following link
www.multiline.com.au/~jeand/jweb/data/1826.html
found on GENUKI - Derbyshire, records from Derby Assizes.
Click on the bottom link of his 2 entries, and it shows that he spent time on prison ships in Chatam up to 1830 at least, so probably never made it to Australia.
He was given a free pardon in June 1833.
I am almost sure that he died in Rotherham in 1841, shortly before the first UK census. His widow Mary (Not sure yet what happened to his first wife Ann) was brought to Belper under the poor law provisions, together with 3 daughters, the eldest 5 years old at the time of the 1841 census. She was in lodgings in Swinney Lane, Belper, and had been found employment in the cotton mill.
It must have been a traumatic time for Samuel's family. His father had died before his release, but his mother Elizabeth was still alive, and living with her second son, Thomas.
What happened to Woodhouse junior during this time I dont know, but from July 15 1833 to August 30 1833 he was at Strutt's school in Belper, and stated to be living in Commonside. His father is said to be a nailer.
see www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/Belper/StruttSchool/V.html
He left to 'go to the mill' . It seems that the law at this time required children to be able to write their name before being employed ! ( he was 10 years old).
Did his eventual move to the waterways arise from an association with Chatham?
If I remember correctly, by the 1841 census he is on board a boat moored in Castleford, already married. He is with his wife and very young first born.
In 1851 his wife appears to be living with the in laws. His name has been entered by the enumerator, but crossed out. His census entry is on a boat off the Anglesey coast.
In 1861 he is moored on the Ouse?, near Selby Yorks.
I so far haven't found any record of his death.
Bovar.
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I have some more infor on Varneys Woodhouse Varney the second married a Louisa Brurtonshaw in1837 in west Butterwick thats in lincolnshire I have there marriage certicficate in front of me She is down as being a Dressmaker and her fatheris down as a blacksmith when there son Henry was 6 he was sent to live with his grandfather to learn a trade
I also belive that the boats that Woodhouse was on was a cannel boat
I haven't yet found his death or how his wife and children landed up living at Hull but intend to keep looking let me know if I can help futher
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We are getting quite a good picture developing, and I have a little more info....
Re: Samuel Varney, I have found reference to a death of the same name in Rotherham in the Oct/Nov/Dec quarter of 1840. This links in with your information Bovar. I have sent for the death certificate to see what info I can glean, and hopefully it will be the Samuel in question - will post what I find in a week or so.
Ruthy
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Re: Samuel Varney
I now have info from the death certificate - death,aged 40, was on 14th October 1840 at Westgate, Rotherham. His occupation was written as a nailmaker, and his cause of death was simply written as "not known". there was a cross which was the mark of Mary Ann who was present. The death was registered 14th (or something "eenth") Novenber.
This sounds like him - I am not sure why the cause of death was so vague...unless that was the lot of the poor.
Any thoughts?
Ruthy
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A further point which I omitted was that the cross was from Mary Ann Pickles - maybe the Pickles was her maiden name. In following census' the Mary Ann shown was a Varney.
Ruthy
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I am researching the Varneys for my Aunt who is a direct descendant of Woodhouse Varney (the grandson), his daughter Theresa (b 1855) and her illegitimate son William Henry Varney (born Windermere 1874 & registered in Ulverston, Cumbria as William Henry Fricke). I'll save the full (very interesting) story of his birth for another day but for now maybe I can add, confirm and correct a few details in the messages so far.
Firstly Woodhouse (the grandson) did marry Louisa Burtonshaw in West Butterwick and had four children - Henry (1850), Edwin (1852), Theresa (1855) and Emma (1858). The Burtonshaws were blacksmiths and I have no evidence of a previous barging connection. As you say, Henry moved to Hull. The other three children all moved to Halifax, Yorkshire with Theresa married to Sutcliffe Greenwood and Emma married to William Robinson. Did Woodhouse also end up in Halifax? - Maybe, but I haven't found him yet.
Secondly I ask myself the question where did Woodhouse the grandfather get his unusual christian name from? Normally an unusual christian name would be from the bible or his mother's or a grandparent's surname. We dont have any evidence of that in this case but he did marry at Eckington and his wife Elizabeth came from Beighton - both places are next door to a place called Woodhouse. It is possible that our Woodhouse was named after the place, either formally or as a "nickname" that stuck. He may actually have been christened with another name.
Thirdly I have had a look at the quarter session information and it seems to me that there were probably two Samuel Varneys, one a nailor and one a labourer. One lived in Duffield and one in Belper. One was charged with assault & riot offences and the other with theft offences. One died in Rotherham in 1840 (your information) and one was a nailor still living in Duffield in 1851. The question is which Samuel was the father of Woodhouse the grandson?
Fourthly I think the census dates quoted by Bovar are all 10 years adrift. (We've all done it). According to Ancestry, Woodhouse was at Castleton, Rochdale (not Castleford, Yorkshire) in 1851, Holyhead, Anglesey in 1861 and at long Drax near Selby in 1871. At Rochdale he would be on a (narrow?)canal boat. At Holyhead he would be on a coaster or other sea going vessel. At Long Drax it could have been either a large barge or a small sea going vessel - ships go up river as far as Goole and Selby.
Lastly there was another Woodhouse Varney who was born and died in Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire in 1850. I don't know how he links in but he must do, perhaps as a descendant of one of Samuel's brothers and therefore a second cousin of our Woodhouse Varney (the grandson).
I am sorry that I don't have any answers to the big important questions about the ancestry of Woodhouse Varney, but if everyone has a piece of the jigsaw, together we may find the picture.
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some further information:
The marriage certificate of Woodhouse Varney and Louisa Burtonshaw has the father of Woodhouse as Samuel "nail maker"
The birth certificate of their son Henry has Woodhouse as "waterman" in 1850.
The Woodhouse that was born and died in 1850 - his mother was Elizabeth Varney and no father was listed. He was born in New Street Droylesden on 4th May. (Woodhouse had a sister called Elizabeth, baptised around 1826....)
His death certificate put his death as 20th September 1850, cause of death "Atrophy" son of Elizabeth Varney, Factory Hand. A Joseph Hill was present at the death - at New Street Droylesden.
That's as much as I have at present - hope it helps.
The story of your ancestors birth in the Lake district sounds intriguing - I look forward to hearing the story.
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Just to add to my last message - the Samuel shown on the marriage certificate of Woodhouse and Louisa was NOT listed as deceased, and as the marriage was on November 27th 1848, if the info on the certificate is to be believed then I think this tells us that the Samuel who was still alive in 1851 was the likely father of Woodhouse. Altough I can't tell if he was the one who was involved in theft or the other one - would you be able to clarfy at all Redrock?
Ruthy
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First, apologies Redrock, I did get my census details out by 10 years in an earlier contribution to this thread....I was working from memory rather than hard copy! I have now subscribed to an on-line source for the UK census so can check my details now!
An interesting question about which Samuel was the criminal, and which the father of Woodhouse junior.
I have seen the parish records and confirm that a Samuel Varney was christened in Belper on August 4th 1799, son of Woodhouse and Elizabeth. This would make him around the same age as the Samuel Varney who died in Rotherham, although perhaps not exactly in line with the death certificate. There is evidence from records of the Belper Poor Law Union that they were aware of a Samuel Varney being ill and dieing in Rotherham. There are instructions to bring the family back to the Workhouse, as would have been the law at the time for the descendent's of men born in the parish and his family who sought parish relief. There are no Varney's listed at the workhouse in the 1841 Census, but Mary Varney appears to be lodging with her 3 young daughters in a house in Swinney Lane, which is close to where other Varney's were living. She has employment in the local cotton mill.
A Samuel Varney married an Ann Jackson at the parish church in Duffield around 1821. I have not seen the microfiche record of this yet, but hope to confirm this when I next visit the Derbyshire record office. Woodhouse junior was christened on Jan 16th 1824, son of Samuel and Anne Varney, and I have seen this record. There is an Anne Varney buried in Belper in the 1830s, but I want to check the exact date and details. So it is possible for Samuel to re marry and have a second family.
I am not aware at present of any other Varney's in Belper that could fit the dates for the Rotherham death. The eldest of Mary's daughters was born outside Derbyshire, the two youngest in the county, according to the 1841 Census, so it is possible she married in Belper. Another point to check!
I am not sure Ruthy about Woodhouse junior having a sister called Elizabeth. I didn't make a record of any Elizabeth christened in Belper in 1826 when I was going through the parish records, but it is so easy to miss things when trying to read those microfiches! Can you give me any details?....I will add this to my check list. A possible candidate for Elizabeth is the one born about 1830 to Thomas Varney. He was the second (surviving) son of Woodhouse, so this Elizabeth was the grand daughter of Woodhouse senior. She can be seen in the 1841 Census living in Belper, and was employed in the local cotton mill, so could have got employed in the same industry as a factory hand....
You are quite right Rocky, I cannot be sure which Samuel Varney was the one imprisoned. Firstly, there is the possibility that he never returned to Belper after release. Looking back over what records I have collected so far, their are two possibilities other than Woodhouse senior's son. One died and was buried in Belper in 1841 (before the census), but he was 77 so the least likely candidate. The Samuel Varney you found in the 1851 census, born in 1786 is possible. He also appears in the 1841 census, although his entry seems to have missed transcription.
He has a wife Isabella in 1841, so is unlikely to have been the person who assaulted his wife, Anne, unless he had remarried.
The Samuel sentenced in 1826, although described as a labourer in the Wirksworth record, is described as a nailor in the pop up note attached to the Derby assize record. At this time the township of Belper was still in the parish of Duffield, which is close by....the registration district was not invented until 1837. All the census records you saw for 1851 are definitely for Varney's living in Belper.....most of the addresses are still identifiable to this day, and the terraced cottages they lived in. Duffield is declared as a sub registration district of Belper on the 1851 Census transcript....I think that this just means that Duffield held a record book where their citizens could record births, marriages and deaths which were later transferred to the main one at Belper.
Unless I can find a record from contemporary sources giving the age of the Samuel sentenced in 1826, I guess it won't be possible to definitely identify which one it is.
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Some speculative thoughts about Woodhouse junior.
Arkwright had a canal built to carry goods to and from his cotton mill, and this passes not too far from Belper. It connects to the Erewash valley canal, which in turn connects to the navigable stretch of the river Trent north of Nottingham, and to the Trent and Mersey canal which goes into Lancashire. It is likely that Strutt used this canal network to move his goods, at least until the railway came in the 1840's. So it is possible that Woodhouse had contact with the watermen on the canal, and got 'apprenticed'.
Ruthy, I wouldn't be sure that Woodhouse would know, or cared if his father was dead. He probably had no fixed abode until he was married, and illiterate, so didn't send letters home. His mother may have died when he was around 10, and if his father WAS imprisoned, may not have had much of a bond with him. Most sons followed their fathers into the nailmaking trade....Woodhouse was I think the only Varney not to do so in this generation.
Louise, his wife, came from West Butterwick, which is on the banks of the river Trent, not far from modern day Scunthorpe. I worked there in the 1970's and remember walking along the Trent bank as far as East Butterwick, and looking across to where his family were born.
It is small even today, and would have been an isolated spot. Perhaps Woodhouse met her when he stopped to have his barge horses shod. George Fish, who was master of the boat he was on during the 1861 census, lived there. George was a mariner 'up the river' in 1851 when Woodhouse was on the canal in Lancashire. Perhaps Woodhouse had crewed with George before this, and met Louise when they stopped off at his home. Louise lived 2 doors away from George's house in 1851.
George was the publican in W Butterwick in 1871.
Trade continued on the Trent and through into the Ouse up to at least the end of the 19th Century.
What happened to Woodhouse after the 1871 census entry? I am trawling through the Yorkshire Vessels records for 1881 census in case his entry has not been transcribed. I have not found an entry for him in the BMD index up to 1881.
Thanks for the info on the Woodhose family, Redrock. Like the transcriber, I had missread the Edwin entry in the 1861 census. He had renamed himself Edward by 1881. He had lived in Lincolnshire until then, although two of his children were born in Yorkshire. Have you found an entry for him in 1891? He reappears in 1901, a widower living near Halifax. He had a substantial fAM
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Continued.....
He had a substantial family......so more research potential there!
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this varney family is getting more and more interesting I think that the elder woodhouse could have been what the termed a foundling and as was often the case and someone had the bright idea of naming him after probably the place he was found. I also think the grandson escaped the mill where he was sent age10 by being taken on the canal boats which called at the mill. look forward to hearing some more to the varney saga
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It's all fascinating stuff.
Very interesting thought about the foundling theory.
In answer to the question about the Elizabeth Varney, a sister of Woodhouse:
She was on a family tree kindly sent to me by another Varney researcher. The date of her christening (not birth) was the information, and it was 8th October 1826 according to that tree. It was a working tree, and so could have mistakes. It also had the Elizabeth born in 1830 who was the daughter of Thomas. This Elizabeth was listed being born in 1830, and as marrying a Samuel Seal 21st October 1854 in Belper. Needs more research. I am hoping to go to the records office in the next few weeks so will hopefully be able to have a good scrutinize of all Woodhouses and the early Varneys to double check these things.
Ruthy
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In addition to the above, I have just had a quick look on the Familysearch site and there is an Elizabeth Varney born to Samuel Varney and Ann on the 29th Oct 1825, and the Christening (which matches with my info) on 8th Oct 1826. No further info though.
Ruthy
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Hello all. I've done some more digging in the censuses and analysed the evidence so far - unfortunately I think we are still missing some vital information.
1)Edwin Varney(b 1852) appears in the 1891 census as Edwin Varley at Clough, Mixenden, Halifax and his death (as Edwin Varney) is recorded in Q3 1918 in Halifax
2)Emma Varney(b 1858) appears in the 1891 census as Emma Rolinson (aka Robinson) at Woodhead Street, Pellon, Halifax. Also present was Emma's illegitimate son (registered Fred Varney in 1875 in Dewsbury, Yorkshire). Emma seems to have come to Halifax around 1876 or 1877 - about the same time as her sister Theresa - as she married William Robinson in Halifax in 1878. By 1891 Fred appears to have taken his stepfather's surname Robinson / Rolinson.
3) I still can't find Woodhouse junior in the censuses or BMD after 1871 - I've looked under every possible alias and mistranscription of christian name and surname without success.
4)Until your recent post Bovar I was inclining towards the circumstantial conclusion that the Samuel Varney aged 65 in the 1851 census at Gutter, Belper was Woodhouse's father. This was on the basis of Woodhouse being born at Belper (not Duffield), the quarter session records, Samuel being a nailor and alive at the time of Woodhouse's marriage in 1848 and Gutter seeming to be where all the local nailors lived. However this Samuel's age does not fit with Bovar's christening date of August 4th 1799 (and to me that is good hard evidence that we can't ignore)
5)Woodhouse was christened 16th January 1824, the son of Samuel Varney and Anne Jackson. Of the known contenders, Samuel (1) was in 1840 maried to Mary. Samuel (2) was in 1841 married to Isabella. If either is the correct one they must have married again. But, as Agatha Christie would say, "there is always the possibility of MR X - Samuel (3), that we don't yet know about"
6)I believe "Gutter" - the address in the 1851 census is about 1 mile north east of the centre of Belper, whereas Duffield is about three or four miles south of Belper. I understand what you are saying Bovar about "Belper" covering a wider area but in those days four or five miles was a long way and the people themselves would almost certainly have identified with one or the other. (the quarter session records also make the distinction between Duffield and Belper). Detailed location is a factor that should always be considered when trying to make sense of sketchy and conflicting information.
7)In the quarter session records the Samuel who was charged with assault & riot was a Nailor of Belper (but may not be Woodhouse's father - see point 3 above) The Samuel who was charged with theft and sentenced to transportation was a labourer of Duffield and does not fit the description of a nailor of Belper. Bovar mentions that a pop up note indicates he may actually have been a nailor, but how reliable is the note? Where does it come from?
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Just one further thought. One of the contending Samuel Varney's died in Rotherham in 1840 and his daughter Thirza was born there (Listed as Thorsey in BMD). The location may be more than co-incidence because Samuel's mother Elizabeth Nightingale came from Beighton (near Rotherham) and is probably the Elizabeth Nightingale listed in the IGI as christened in Rotherham on 30th April 1760.
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Hello Folks. I have a bit more information for you.
Firstly, thanks Bovar for pointing out that Samuel (2) was married to Isabella in the 1841 census. He's not indexed in Ancestry, so for the benefit of others he and Isabella are at census district 10 page 5. I have found his marriage record to Isabella Wain in the IGI for 27th September 1810. His age (65 in 1851) and marriage to Isabella from 1810 to 1841 enable us to rule him out as the father of Woodhouse Varney.
Secondly, I now believe that the Samuel Varney who died in Rotherham in 1840 was actually married to Mary Lander in Duffield (Belper?) on 12th June 1835 (source IGI). This is supported by the fact that Thirza / Thursa / Thorsey Varney who was born in Rotherham in 1840 was living with her uncle John LANDER in Gascoignes Road, Derby in 1861. Alice Varney (her sister) was also living elsewhere in Derby in 1861 as a lodger with George Garrett and his wife. I haven't found any trace of their sister Harriet or mother Mary after 1841 - perhaps she married again. Another fact that supports the Mary Lander theory is that in 1841, Mary, the presumed widow of the Rotherham Samuel Varney, was living next door to George LANDER in Swinney Lane, Belper. George was her brother.
So, my current view of the life of Samuel Varney is: born in 1799, married to Ann Jackson in 1821, twice charged with Assault in 1821, had three children with Ann (Martha, Woodhouse & Elizabeth), charged with theft and sentenced to transportation in 1826, released from prison ships in Chatham in 1833, returns to Belper and marries Mary Lander in 1835, had children Harriet and Alice born Belper, Thirza born Rotherham, Samuel dies Rotherham 1840. Widow Mary returned to Belper under Poor Law provisions before 1841. My guess is that Mary and her three children moved to Derby prior to 1851 as I can't find any record of them in the 1851 census at Commonside, Swinney Lane, Gutter, Laund Hill etc.
The only problem with this scenario is that Julie Workman in New Zealand and to an extent the IGI attribute Harriet, Alice and Thirza to another Samuel Varney (b 1808) and Mary Hunt - there is a suitable marriage record in the IGI for 2nd September 1832 at Pentrich. I can't believe that two Samuel Varneys both married to Mary, both christened their three children Harriet, Alice and Thirza. For me the critical piece of evidence is that in 1861 Thirza was living with her uncle John LANDER in Derby. Julie also attributes the christening of William H Varney in Chesterfield in 1838 to the same Samuel Varney and Mary Hunt and this is definitely not correct. This William H Varney was living with his parents Samuel Varney (b 1816 in Rudford, Nottinghamshire) and Mary (b 1813 in Mansfield) in Sheffield Brightside in 1861
For the record Thirza Varney (b 1840) went on to marry Jno Ramsey in 1866 (Burton on Trent) and eventually moved to London. She is recorded as Thirza Ramsey in the 1901 census in Wandsworth, London as widow and mother-in-law of Edward Bassano.
I hope this all helps. The question is does it sound right?
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Hi there
we've sorted out William he didn't belong with the 3 girls (I even had a note to myself to check it). The Samuels and Marys - well I am still trying to wade through all that lovely information to sort something out there.
Maybe I should point out my tree presented is a work in progress- I welcome anybody to question what I have there- my direct line I am sure of but even that gets cloudy as you go backwards. Do I work differently to most people? I use the genealogy software to record all possibles even unlinked persons and add links as the information is revealed. It's definitely something I change and alter as I go along. When I print a page off and put it in my folder I have a reasonable expectation that it won't change! Does that clarify my tree for you? I hope so.
So please keep up your wonderful work and don't question your data interpretation because I have something different! Woodhouse VARNEY was one of those unlinked people that I have in my database, I added him ages ago and always thought I might find a link to my branch- I haven't yet unless you count a descendant marriage..
I'll try to keep up to date with what you have here- access to a computer permitting (my laptop is away being fixed or otherwise)- it's fascinating what is cropping up.
Julie in NZ
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Hi All,
Redrock I do think your thoughts are probably correct.
I have a few bits of info that support your scenario for Samuel Varney. I crumbled and ordered the birth certificate for Thosey (Thirza) Varney, and her mother was Mary Lander according to the certificate - so Redrock you were was spot on.
I then was able to visit the records office, and found a Samuel born to a Woodhouse and Elizabeth Varney baptized on the 11th August 1799 - no other Samuels born to them that I could see, and next a Thirza born on April 30 1809 (bap: 14th May). I have a Martha burial for 1808 on my existing information, but I didn't see the entry whilst looking through the records, but I could easily have missed it. So I think the Samuel in question was the one above as Redrock concluded.
I also looked for Woodhouse junior's sister Elizabeth, and I ran out of time, beyond finding her in the IGI as being the daughter of a Samuel and Ann Varney 1825. She was shown as being registered Primitive Methodist, Belper.
I cannot trace Woodhouse Junior after the 1871 Census either, but I am sure I saw something ages ago indicating he was overseas in 1881 (Rotterdam for some reason), but I cannot trace what evidence I had anywhere, so this has to be dismissed I think.
I could find no info on the birth of the original Woodhouse. His marriage to Elizabeth Nightingale in Eckington has them as "both of this parish" but that only means he could have lived there for maybe a couple of years. The Eckington baptism list seemed to be missing for 1761 - which is the indicted year of his birth on the tree I have, so I couldn't tell if he was possibly born there. No evidence of him in Belper/ Duffield either.........
That's all so far.
Ruthy
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Happy New Year to all you Varney watchers. I have been having a look at the Hull Varneys and thought I should share a bit of information with you.
Previous posts have shown that in the 1881 census Henry Varney was living in Hull with his wife Mary Elizabeth (nee Colley), sons Arthur and Walter and daughters Louisa and Alice. After trying to find out what happened to each of the children, and failing to find any trace of Arthur Varney, I discovered that Arthur was not Arthur Varney at all. He was in fact Arthur Colley - Mary Elizabeth's (much) younger brother. She was the eldest of 12 children and Arthur was number 11.
So of the Varney "children" appearing in the 1881 census Arthur COLLEY married Emma in about 1890. Walter married Annie Elizabeth Goulding in 1894, Louisa married James Craig Walker in 1894, Alice married Walter Steele in 1906.
I've come across this sort of "adopted" name in the census many times, but it still throws me for a while. I hope this new information helps.