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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: jac on Thursday 21 December 06 22:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Thursday 21 December 06 22:57 GMT (UK)
Hi,

My husband's grandfather, Corporal W J Howarth (2936)from the 10th Manchester Regiment was awarded a medal during WW1 for a football match - "The Dardanelles Cup 42nd Divisional Final" Helles, December 1915.

I am trying to find out if anyone has any information about this football match.

Thanks, Jac








Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: PrueM on Thursday 21 December 06 23:58 GMT (UK)
Hello jac  :)

I found the following page by Googling, I hope my link takes you there. 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/011o/ 

It's a cached page, as the actual page requires a login to the Great War Forum.  I know there are folks on here who do subscribe to that Forum, so they might be able to find out more info for you.
Cheers
Prue

Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Friday 22 December 06 08:24 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for that link Prue.  Lots of very interesting information.
All the best, Jacqui
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Friday 22 December 06 09:14 GMT (UK)

how did he get the medal then if the final was between the RND and the HLI ;D

eh...these oldham lads!! 8)
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Friday 22 December 06 10:29 GMT (UK)
I guess that the medal was for winning the Divisional Final, not the final itself as it states "Dardanelles Cup 42nd Divisional Final". Was the 1/10th Manchester Regiment part of the 42nd Division? Sorry but I don't know anything about how the regiments were organised.
I wonder who beat them in the next round?  Maybe someone has worked out the full results. It would be great to read the war diaries for the 1/10th Manchester for December 1915 to see if the match was reported.  I don't suppose anyone has a copy?

Cheers, Jacqui
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Friday 22 December 06 11:37 GMT (UK)

yes the 10th were part of the 42nd (east lancs) division

i doubt very much that the football results would have been recorded in the war diaries
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: manmack on Friday 22 December 06 20:13 GMT (UK)
the 9th battalions football results were on the sports page of the ashton reporter,maybe worth checking the oldham papers to see if the 10th batts were printed,mack
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Friday 22 December 06 22:42 GMT (UK)
I have a picture of the 10th football team probably pre war, i will post it after christmas
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Friday 22 December 06 23:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks a lot for the info/suggestions, much appreciated.

Would love a look at the photo of the 1/10th football team to see if Walter can be spotted.

Have a great Xmas.

Cheers, Jacqui
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: manmack on Friday 22 December 06 23:18 GMT (UK)
jacqui,do you have a picture of your grandfather,me and harribob and a few friends have a website dedicated to the manchester regt,we would be glad to add his picture to the photo gallery,mack
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Friday 22 December 06 23:36 GMT (UK)
Mack, There aren't any army photos of Walter in uniform I'm afraid. The earliest would be a marriage photo taken in 1921, if that's of interest.
What is your web site I would be interested to take a look. Jacqui
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Saturday 23 December 06 00:59 GMT (UK)
The link to the manchesters site is the signature under my post

Feel free to have a browse

Have a good xmas

Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Thursday 28 December 06 10:10 GMT (UK)

the 10th battalion football team of 1908 (I think  :o)

pm me your email address and i'll send you a BIG copy of the pic

Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: manmack on Thursday 28 December 06 13:10 GMT (UK)
Mack, There aren't any army photos of Walter in uniform I'm afraid. The earliest would be a marriage photo taken in 1921, if that's of interest.
What is your web site I would be interested to take a look. Jacqui
jacqui,the wedding photo will do fine,thanks,mack
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Thursday 28 December 06 16:14 GMT (UK)

interesting point that should be noted here

if we had one of those soldiers ( minus hat) in a photo, we would be saying cavalry, artillery or ASC, because of the bandoliers over the sholder, yet we know they are 10th batt mancs
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: manmack on Thursday 28 December 06 16:51 GMT (UK)

interesting point that should be noted here

if we had one of those soldiers ( minus hat) in a photo, we would be saying cavalry, artillery or ASC, because of the bandoliers over the sholder, yet we know they are 10th batt mancs
they are the manchesters transport section chris,happy birthday mate
mack
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Thursday 28 December 06 16:59 GMT (UK)
thanks mack


that may be true, (about the MT section) but i'm making a point about assumptions on soldiers with bandoliers  ;), an average infantry battalion had 80 horses
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Friday 29 December 06 12:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the photo Harribob, I have sent you a PM.

Mack, My Mother in Law (Walter's daughter) says that her sister may have some photos of Walter in his army uniform so I will contact her to see if I can have a look through her old family photos.

Cheers, Jacqui
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Tuesday 02 January 07 23:15 GMT (UK)
Hi,

For those who may be interested I have found out that the final of the Dardanelles Cup was played after the evacuation of Gallipoli on the 13th January 1916 in Mundros on the Island of Lemnos. The ANSON Battalion of the Royal Naval Division beat the Highland Light Infantry of the 52nd Division.

The winners of the 42nd Divisional Final, the 1/10th Manchester, were finally presented with their medals at a battallion parade in August 1916 in Pelusium, Egypt.

Cheers,

Jacqui
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: manmack on Wednesday 03 January 07 05:09 GMT (UK)
thats a great picture,its a rare piece of the manchesters history,there would have only been about a dozen of these medals awarded to the 10th manchesters,mack
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Wednesday 03 January 07 11:01 GMT (UK)
what an excellent piece, make sure you look after it ..it'd look good in my collection!  ;)

i assume your GF an Oldham lad
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: harribobs on Wednesday 03 January 07 11:06 GMT (UK)

made in birmingham in 1915 btw  :D  (i hope)
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: jac on Wednesday 03 January 07 11:17 GMT (UK)
Yes, The hallmarks confirm Birmingham 1915 but I'm afraid that it will be staying in the family!!!!!
Title: Re: Dardanelles Cup Final Helles 1915
Post by: Mr Smith on Sunday 03 July 16 23:35 BST (UK)
Sorry to join -in with this conversation so late on but, my wife also has one of these medallions. It was awarded to her GrandUncle .He was Fred Woolstencroft, a L/Cpl in the 1/10th M'cr.