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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: stampers on Wednesday 20 December 06 18:37 GMT (UK)

Title: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Wednesday 20 December 06 18:37 GMT (UK)
Hi

Could someone please lookup in 1851 census Scotland Perthshire if

James Mclaren born 1850
parents James Mclaren born 1826 and Margaret born 1831, what I need to know if James dad's occupation is a shipwright, ships's carpenter something on them lines. 

The only details I have about James born 1850 are from his wedding certificate saying dad is James and his occupation is shipwright.

Thanks

Sue


Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 00:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue

Just curious how you got to James and Margaret's birth years? Also, how did you arrive at your James's mother being called Margaret.

I can see this entry for example on the 1851 Census:

James McLaren    30, ship carpenter, b. Perth, Perthshire
Betsey McLauchlin 29, wife, b. Dundee, Forfarshire
James McLaren 1, son, b. Dundee, Forfarshire

Address: 21 Peter Street, Dundee, Angus

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 00:24 GMT (UK)
There is also another family headed by James and Agnes in Greenock Renfrew:

James McLaren    42, ship builder, Greenock, Renfrews
Agnes McLaren    37, b. Roseneath, Dumbart
James McLaren    4, b. Greenock, Renfrews
Mary McLaren    7, b. Greenock, Renfrews
Donald McLennan 24, lodger
George Scott    22, lodger, joiner
Jane McAulay    45, visitor
James McFarlane 32, lodger, joiner

Address: Mclaren's Collage (cottage?), Roseneath, Dumbartonshire

Regards.

Monica
   
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: runningbear on Thursday 21 December 06 00:51 GMT (UK)
in 1861 monica i have him with an Ann!!

let's see if i am right

1841 census; south street, perth

donald...age 56...publican
margaret...age 54
james...age 20...ship carpenter
donald...age 15...ship carpenter
christian(F)...age 15

1861 census: 1 dingwall street, anderson, glasgow

james...head...age 38...ship carpenter...born st.martin, perth
ann...wife...age 40...born perth
william...son...age 7...born govan, glasgow
james L...son...age 5...born govan, glasgow
george...son...age 3...born barony, glasgow

the middle letter L is james's name, do you recognise it sue?

trying to help Joe
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 08:48 GMT (UK)
Sue

As you can see, with Joe's new family, there's at least 3 James/James family groups with father as shipwright (although the ship builder may mean that on a higher scale!). There could be more that we haven't found as yet.

The first group in Perth with a James son b. 1850 is closer to the birth year you have for your James, but as you know census ages can be out either side.

Have you any other info that would help determine which could be the right family?

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 19:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks all for that

Now I need to try and eliminate.   My James Mclaren who was born 1847 to 1850 was married in Liverpool on his marriage cert his dad is James a Shipwright.  He was married in 1870 to Susannah, the family don't appear in 1871 census, found Susannah in 1881 and 1891.  James appears on 1901 with Susannah living in  Bootle, only states date of birth as Scotland. 

So I have a problem not knowing where about in Scotland he was born and who is mum was. 

Don't know about siblings and witnesses on his Marriage cert no connection.   

Thanks, hopefully one of these families will be mine.   

Will let you know how I go.

Cheer

Sue
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 19:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue

It's frustrating being close and not being able to move it on  ???

Are there any clues from the names of his children. Do you have a continous line, especially for the early births? They may have followed Scottish naming pattern but in order to make a judgement you would also need to know the names of his wife's parents.

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 19:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Monica

Their first child was named James Peter William Mclaren, so I think there could be something there.  Next two children after Susannah's parents.  James Peter died at aged 9, so there was another James. 

It is really frustrating, if he could have just named the area in Scotland!! 

I will keep trying though.

Thanks again

Sue x
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 19:57 GMT (UK)
Sue

Given you have confirmation of his father's name from his MC, any clues you can get on mother's name from the names of his daughters (assuming he had more than one)  is what will hopefully let you filter through the entries at this stage.

Regards.

Monica :)

Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 20:09 GMT (UK)
First daughter was Lydia, but that was his wife's mums name.  Then boy John, then another daughter Susannah (Dean) Mclaren, unfortunately that was name of his wife's nan.  There is another son Thomas.

There is an Elizabeth (Roberts) Mclaren born 1881 in Liverpool.  Roberts was maiden name of Jame's wife.  I am going to send away for Birth Cert, not sure if she is any relation as she doesn't appear on census in 1891 and no registration of death. 

Sue

Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 20:20 GMT (UK)
I do have a Wedding Certificate for

Peter Mclaren and Agnes Lang 1871 Liverpool.  I don't know whether this is Jame's brother.   This Peter also has dad as James and Ship Carpenter. 

In 1881 census shows Peter was born in Scotland 1853.

Sue x
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 20:30 GMT (UK)
That sound promising  :)

Let's see if we can find some of the families we posted from 1851 in 1861 with new addition Peter............ ;)

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 20:37 GMT (UK)
 :o That was a quick find! The first family I posted with a James born in Dundee in 1850 now in 1861:

James McLaren    42, ship carpenter, b. Perth, Perthshire
Betsy McLaren    38, nk (not known?) Scotland
James McLaren    11, b. Dundee
Peter McLaren    9, b. Dundee
Mary McLaren    3, b. Dundee

Address: House Wynd, Dundee First District, Dundee, Angus

Regards.

Monica

   
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 21:03 GMT (UK)
This looks promising,  the Elizabeth (roberts) Mclaren that I mentioned, maybe after Betsy?  Will get that cert.  Will let you know

Thanks to both

Sue x
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:04 GMT (UK)
Mary showing as age 3 in 1861, from IGI:

MARY MC LAREN  Birth: 30 AUG 1857  Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Parents: Father: JAMES MC LAREN    Mother:ELIZABETH MC LAUCHLAN    

Other children showing for this couple, all post 1855 and the start of official registration:

1. HENRY MACNAMARA MC LAREN  Birth: 03 FEB 1860 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. MARGARET BROWN MC LAREN   Birth: 20 MAR 1862 Dundee, Angus, Scotland 

Regards.

Monica
   
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 21:08 GMT (UK)
Many Thanks Monica

Will have a good look at this. 

You've been a great help

Sue
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:09 GMT (UK)
Sue

I've just checked the 1881 Census, which you can search on Scotlands People by birth place. There are no James or Peter McLarens in their age bands born Dundee............looking good  ;)

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 21:14 GMT (UK)
Fantastic, I have been looking for over a year for this family! 

Getting really excited now, my hubbie says look at you typing with a big grin on your face! 

Many Many Thanks


Sue
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:23 GMT (UK)
Sue

Peter seems as elusive as James is in the censuses. Apart from the 1881 entry, he is not at home in 1891/1901.

I can't see more living children for Peter and Agnes other than James, Peter and Agnes....hoping to see an Elizabeth  :'(

Monica

Added: and Martha! big gap between Martha and James in the 1881 Census, would appear they lost a number of babies maybe?
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 21:27 GMT (UK)
That's right,  it could be that they were both working on ships..   What I've just found in 1881 census is Betsey Mclaren living at 19 Johnston Street,  Bootle, Lancashire..  aged 62 born Scotland.   This is the area or abouts James lived.  What do you think?

Sue
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:28 GMT (UK)
That looks like the mother to me  :D  She went by the name of Betsey in a number of the records. Firming up the family here Sue!
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:35 GMT (UK)
Betsey and daughter Mary were already in Liverpool by 1871 Census, Betsey shows as widowed:

Elizabeth McLaren    45
Mary McLaren    14

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 21:39 GMT (UK)
just got your latest message,

James and Susannah married 1870 cert doesn't say father deceased.  Peter and Agnes married 26 Feb 1871, before 1871 census, again doesn't say father deceased.  If this is the family means James their dad died between Feb and Apr 1871? 

Will have a look now

Sue
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: stampers on Thursday 21 December 06 21:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Monica

There is nothing under BMD during that time.

It surely has to be them.

Speak to you later

Sue x
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:47 GMT (UK)
Sue

It might be worthwhile widening the death search for James between 1861-71. Just because MCs for the sons don't state deceased, as you know, not always a 100% accurate.

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 21:52 GMT (UK)
With that wider time span, these are the only two entries in the right area that I can see:

Deaths Sep 1862 
McLaren    James         Chorlton    8c   258   

Deaths Dec 1862   
MCLAREN    James         Liverpool    8b   226

I've checked Scotland for the same period (61-71). Only one possible one in Dundee and it's not him.

Monica
Title: Re: James Mclaren 1851 Perthshire
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 22:54 GMT (UK)
Sue

Just gone back and checked my last posts, Betsey at least was still in Dundee up to March 1862 and the birth of their daughter Margaret there. So, the death entries, certainly in the first Qrt in 1862 unlikely to be James  :-\

Regards.

Monica