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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: geordielux on Wednesday 20 December 06 18:10 GMT (UK)

Title: 1851? census lookup
Post by: geordielux on Wednesday 20 December 06 18:10 GMT (UK)
Any help gratefully received on a lookup for Scottish census or other record  relating to my great great grandfather Alexander Bain.

Believed born 1843 in Scotland (from Marriage cert etc ) lived, married (1863 Eliz Guthrie) and died (1887) in Newcastle upon Tyne.

Further to my last post found that his father could be a James Bain, profession blacksmith.

I have all the birth and marriage records from the English side but can't find an Alexander or James Bain that fits the bill in Scotland.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Michael
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 21:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael

The closest I can see on the 1851 Census is this entry:

James Bean    31, Blacksmith Emp 1 Man, b. Logie, Stirling
Catherine Bean    30, b. Alloa, Clackn
Alexander Bean    8, b. Alloa, Clackn
Mary Bean    6, b. Alloa, Clackn
James Bean    4, b. Alloa, Clackn
John M Bean    8 Months, b. Alloa, Clackn
Robert Robertson 16, Blacksmith Journeyman, b. Alloa, Clackn

Address: Mar Street, Alloa, Clackmannanshire

Maybe mother's name and siblings were used for Alexander and Elizabeth's children.

Regards.

Monica
   
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 20 December 06 21:43 GMT (UK)
There appear to be two Alexander's who have a father named James in the OPR:

16 April 1843 - Alloa - Alexander Bean, parents James Bean and Catherine Henderson
25 Dec 1843 - Inverness - Alexander Bain, parents James Bain and Margaret McDonald

The first one ties in with Monica's findings.

Regards

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 21:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael and Gadget (hope line problems are better!)

These are the children showing for the parents I posted earlier, from IGI. Mother Catherine's surname is Henderson, all actual extracts from the OPRs:

1. ALEXANDER BEAN Birth: 28 MAR 1843/ Christening: 16 APR 1843 Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland
2. MARY BEAN Birth: 04 APR 1845/ Christening: 15 APR 1845 Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland
3. JAMES BEAN Birth: 28 FEB 1847/ Christening: 14 MAR 1847 Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland
4. JOHN MCLEOD BEAN  Birth: 07 JUL 1850/ Christening: 21 JUL 1850 Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland
5. WILLIAM BEAN  Birth: 20 AUG 1855 Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland
6. ISABELLA BEAN  Christening: 13 JAN 1861 North Church, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland


I hope it turns out to be the right family  :) If so, you have an 1855 birth cert. showing for William. The first year of official registration in Scotland and for one year only, the BMD entries ran over two pages of the registers. A wealth of additional info is included. For births it will tell you where the parents were from, ages, when they married, occupation of father, how many children they'd had (alive/deceased).....

Regards.

Monica

Gadget, was the occupation of the second father James also blacksmith?



Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 21:48 GMT (UK)
Gadget

Sorry, I just realised you posted info re births from OPRs not census.

Regards.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 20 December 06 21:54 GMT (UK)
Was going to say that it might be worth a check, Monica  ;)

Line is back - just - fingers and everything else crossed until the next Highland storm/ &*£%  BT enhancement  :( :( :(

Gadget

PS Inverness one was a sawyer - so Alloa looks good  :)  But Inverness mother is a Catherine (widow  :-\) Correct age for Alexander though!
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 22:09 GMT (UK)
Yes, just found James, joiner and Lock keeper,  in 1861 census and Margaret. Re the other family, Alexander looks to be a farm servant away from home in 1861, with mother Catherine and children now in Fife following the birth of baby Isabella. Did you say this Catherine is already a widow?

Monica
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 20 December 06 22:17 GMT (UK)
Yes. There must be three Alexanders  :-\

1851 - 98 -10 -27 Shore Street, Inverness: Alexander Bain, aged 8, born Inverness. Mother Catherine, aged 36.

Gadget
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 22:21 GMT (UK)
The 1861 Census entries for the Alloa family now in Fife, not sure if James is away from home or deceased:

Catherine Bain    40
Mary Bain    16
James Bain    14
John Bain    10
William Bain    5
Isabella Bain    4 Mo
   
Address: Golfdrum St, Dunfermline Burgh, Fife



And the closest match for Alexander, working in a Dick household:

Alexander Bain, 15, farm servant b. Clack, Clackmannanshire
Address: Sandy Dub, Saline, Fife

Monica
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 22:29 GMT (UK)
The 1851 Census entry for Alexander with mother Catherine in Inverness, son Alexander is indexed as Sawyer's son.

Everything is pointing at the moment to the Alloa Alexander. Hopefully, Michael will have additional info to confirm whether we have the right one.

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 22:42 GMT (UK)
Oh  :D I do think we are on the right track!

Catherine Henderson Bain is not a widow in 1861 and the Alexander son working as a farm servant is not the correct son....I think!

Have just found this entry in 1861 with father James and son Alexander. Birth places match their 1851 entries. Transcription issues on surnames certainly make for fun searches:

Alexander Brin    18, son, blacksmith, b. Alloa, Clackmannanshire
James Brin 41, blacksmith, b. Bridge of Allan, Stirlingshire

Address: West Cottage, Cramond, Mid Lothian


Michael, when did Alexander marry in England and what was his occupation as shown on the MC?

Regards.

Monica

Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 20 December 06 22:43 GMT (UK)
Think the Alloa one is a deffo now, Monica. No others that I can find  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 23:00 GMT (UK)
From 1871 Census in Walker, Longbenton, Northumberland:

Alexander Bain, 28, Ship Smith, b. Scotland
Elizabeth, 21, b. Northumberland
Catherine, 1, b. Northumberland

And 1881 in Longbenton, Northumberland:

Alexander, 38, Ship Smith, b. Scotland
Elizabeth, 31, b. Longbenton, Northumberland       
John James, 9, b. Longbenton, Northumberland 
Alexander, 6, b. Longbenton, Northumberland
William, 4, b. Longbenton, Northumberland 
Elizabeth Jane, 2, b. Longbenton, Northumberland

Address: 40 Pit Street, Longbenton


Monica     

Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 20 December 06 23:19 GMT (UK)
The marriage details for James and Catherine Henderson, with banns read in two places, actual extracts from the OPRs:

JAMES BEAN and CATHERINE HENDERSON  Marriage: 02 OCT 1841 Logie, Perth/ 22 OCT 1841 Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: geordielux on Thursday 21 December 06 09:26 GMT (UK)
:) To Monica and gadget
Thanks a million. My English look-ups confirm what you found and show that Alexander married in 1868 and was a shipwright.
I also know that the first child born in Newcastle was a Catherine who died when only 3 so that maybe ties in with the family names of the Bean family. Is it normal the surnames can change during transcription?

Once again thanks its given me something to chase over Xmas.

Michael


Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 21 December 06 10:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael

I did wonder about poor Catherine - daft, I know, but I feel sad when I see all the infant deaths in those days  :'(

It's highly likely that either transcription errors or just changes in spelling led to the Bean/Bain surname -   e and i look very similar when written in some hands.

Regards

Gadget
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 December 06 16:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael

It certainly feels like the right family, specially with first born daughter called Catherine. Don't forget about that 1855 birth cert. in Alloa, it will provide you with additional info re Alexander's parents hopefully.

In respect of the issue of Bean/Bain and other variants, you have to remember that names in those times were not rigid as they are in 'modern' times. There were many variants that were used in that period for surnames (and first names for that matter). This is one of the reasons why when you search on IGI, it automatically throws up a number of variants in your search results.

Enjoy Xmas with nearest and dearest  :)

Regards.

Monica
Title: Re: 1851? census lookup
Post by: BonnieB on Friday 23 February 07 00:30 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I'm a newbie here, but I have much more info on the Bean family that is being asked about.  If we can prove the connection, this group will belong to my husband's Bean family, who resided all through Central Scotland.

I can also put geordielux in touch with Alexander's brother, John McLeod Bean's descendants in Canada.

Oh yes - re the surname.  If you say 'Bean' with a Scottish accent, it comes out 'Bain' - reason that it's spelt  Bean / Bain / Bayne / Been / Bone.  Tis not a transcription error.

Regards . . . . BonnieB