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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bobtonks on Friday 15 December 06 14:53 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone see Clemantina Gartell, age 3, living in the Dover area in the 1891 census?
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I think this may be her - interesting parents!
Chapel Street, St Mary the Virgin, Dover
Henry John Gartell Head Mar 25 Comedian b London Lambeth
Adelaide Bell Gartell Wife Mar 22 Burlesque Actress b London Pimlico
Clementina Bell Gartell Dau 3 b Kent Folkestone
Second name for wife and daughter could be Ball or Beale - the writing is very cramped.
Barbara
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Barbara
Thanks for the info. Is it possible the second name could be Batt?
Bob
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Hello Bob
I have had another look.
I think Clementina's second name could be Batt.
Adelaide's looks more like Beal with an extra "a" higher up at the end. On second thoughts, maybe its Bella :-\
The ref is RG 12 744 f9 in case any one else would like to have a go!
On the census sheet Clementina is actually spelt Clemintina
I have to ask - did Clementina follow in her parents' footsteps?
Barbara
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Barbara
Adaline's second name was Beatrice. She married Henry Gartell in 1890.!!! I am sure that Clementine is not their daughter but possibly the daughter of a certain Thomas Batt. ( A music Hall entertainer). I don't know if she followed them into the entertainment industry.
Bob
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Hi Bob
Have you seen the entry for 1901 where Clementina seems to be with her real father and a brother?
Barbara
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Barbara
I have put in a request but have not yet had a reply. If you can see them in1901 it would be nice to have a look.
Bob
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1901
2 Newcastle Court Nottingham
Ellen Martindale Head Single 36 b Middx London
Thomas Batt Boarder Mar 43 Music Hall Artist b Middx London
Clementina Dau looks like 18? b Folkestone
William Son 9 b Nottingham
Emma Cook Visitor Single 20- Hosiery Turner b Hucknell Notts
Barbara
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Barbara
The birth certificate for Clementina in 1887 give her mother as Ellen Bate formally Martindale but I have not located a marriage. William Henry was born June 1890 and I think he was living in Mansfield. (Near Nottingham). Can you see him in 1891?
Bob
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Hello Bob
I am not having any luck with this. I have tried looking for William and Ellen with variations on the surnames of Batt and Martindale. Have also looked for Thomas. Nothing is coming up that fits.
I will have another try tomorrow.
Barbara
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Not sure if this helps with location or not ...
From Notts FHS transcriptions, baptism at Nottingham St Stephen 07/05/1890 William Henry Batt to Thomas and Helena, abode 10 Sherwood Lane Nottingham, father's occupation singer
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Hi
Have only just come across this site, and not sure whether this will help or hinder......
Clementina Mary Ann Batt, born 1887, was, I believe, my great grandmother. My mother remembers that Clementina used to claim her family were on the stage, but can't remember further details.
Clementina's birth certificate shows parents as Thomas Benjamin Batt (professional singer) and Ellen Batt, formerly Martindale. Mothers name might also have been Martinsdale or Martingsdale, as there are a couple of alterations on the birth certificate. As mentioned previously, Clementina appears on the 1901 census with her father, who is a lodger with Ellen Martindale in Nottingham (where my family still live). I have not been able to find a marriage between Ellen and Thomas Batt, although this is suggested on Clementina's birth certificate.
I've not come across any reference to the Gartell family but am off to investigate now....
Marajan
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I found this post from way back. I am interested in the GARTELL family's links to music hall. Clementine's father Henry was a comedian and I am looking for his brother William James who was on his son's marriage certificate as "music hall artist"
Kay
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Hi Kay
I wish I could help you but I know nothing about the Gartells really, other than what is already given in this post. Although it states that Clementina was their daughter on the 1891 census, her birth certificate gives her parents as Thomas Batt, Music Hall Artist, and Ellen Martindale. It appears that her parents never married, and I don't know what the relationship was between the Batts and the gartells. It's a big mystery but I assume they knew each other through their profession, and maybe the Gartells looked after Clementina whilst her parents travelled. I haven't managed to trace the parents in 1891 yet.
Sorry. Best of luck with your search. If you do find anything suggesting a link I'd be interested to know, if you're willing to share. Clementina was my gt grandmother. Apparently nobody in the family used to believe her when she said her parents were on the stage, but they know now!
Best wishes
Jan (marajan)
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Dear Jan
Thank you so much for replying even although it is disappointing. I do appreciate it especially as your post was a long time ago. My friend is definitely a GARTELL and didn't know about the music hall connections until it showed up on a marriage certificate. I have found that two brothers were on the stage - William James G and Henry G, but not together. No idea where to go from here!
Kay
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In the 1901 census Henry & Adeline are visitors in the same house as my grandma (Doris Anderson) living in Malton and its always fascinated me as to why. It appears that Doris was illegitimate & adopted by George Clarke Skelton which is strange as adoptions then were unofficial and normally kept within the family but I can find no connection.
George is a sewing machine agent & his daughters appear to work with him as a milliner & sewing machine shop apprentice. Perhaps my family made costumes for the local theatres and Henry & Adeline were appearing in a local theatre at the time and needed somehwere to stay. I'd be surprised if there was any family connection as the only link to London I can find is George's wife's aunt who spent most of her life as a servant in Grosvenor Crescent, London.
I would be grateful for any information you have about Henry & Adeline's theatrical career in case there is a remote family connection to Andersons but simply having a burlesque dancer in the house is interesting!
Regards
Phil
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Dear Phil
Yes I have the census entry and had assumed that they just took in lodgers to make ends meet. I have been doing the GARTELL line for a friend who is descended from Henry's brother William (also on the stage). I have found lots of references to the GARTELLs in theatrical papers. Lots of the family were in show business. Henry eventually gave up the stage and in 1911 is in London as a grocer! Sorry I don't know of any link to Doris.
Kay