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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: the cat's mother on Friday 15 December 06 13:29 GMT (UK)

Title: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Friday 15 December 06 13:29 GMT (UK)
Hi all and a Merry Christmas

Am new to all of this so please forgive my (extreme) ignorance!

What I have got is some memoirs written by my husband's maternal great grandmother, in the memoirs she talks about his great grandfather being injured in action on the Somme and being awarded the Military Cross. 

I have managed to find on the internet the London Gazette entry of his consipcous gallantry and what he did.  I've just downloaded his medal card (correct regimental no. and correct regiment - Leicestershire Regiment) and the medals listed are the Victory, British and (15 hand written by the side) Star, however there is no mention of the Military Cross.  Should the medal card include the Military cross or is this card for campaign medals only?

Thanks for help in advance.
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: themonsstar on Friday 15 December 06 14:01 GMT (UK)
Hi
Can you post the MIC on here so we can see it, and yes it is only for the issue of the war medals but next to his name you sometimes get the letters MC. Cheers
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Friday 15 December 06 14:19 GMT (UK)
Hi

Thanks for speedy reply, not sure how I can get this Medal Card on here (no scanner - awaiting it as xmas pressie!).  Have had a look and can't see M.C. after his name (he does it himself on his daughter's marriage certificate which he witnessed)  the only things I can see are as follows:
Name Hancock Robert
corps Leic R
Rank Sgt
Reg no 13609
then underneath there is something illegible possibly his next rank***d II or 11
his Victory, British and 15 handwritten Star roll numbers
theatre of war (1) France
date of entry therin 29-7-15
remarks 'L' res 2/5/19

Thanks

Christine.
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: themonsstar on Friday 15 December 06 16:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Christine
The MC was a gallantry award to Officers & Warrant Officers of the Army. Were the rank is it may be (W O II) this is Warrant Officer class two, or Company Sergeant Major (CSM).
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: bernard_lewis on Friday 15 December 06 18:23 GMT (UK)
Quick look at the London Gazette and no match - the search engine can be dodgy though.

Bernard
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: Roger Griffiths on Friday 15 December 06 18:35 GMT (UK)
From this correspondence, I have learnt something today.

I thought that Military Cross and Military Medal were one and the same decoration second only to Victoria Cross, only Cross for commisioned officers and Medal for other ranks.

I knew a Sergeant who had been in Korea who got the MM for taking out two Chinese MG positions on his own.

Very recently, Radio 4 reported on an NCO who had been awarded the MC in Afghanistan.

Roger 
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: neil1821 on Friday 15 December 06 19:37 GMT (UK)
TNA have transcribed his second rank as Warrant Officer Class 2

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=2682783&queryType=1&resultcount=1


Roger,
The Military Medal for other ranks was discontinued after a review in 1993, so now the Military Cross is available to all ranks.

The MM was a lesser award than the VC (as you say), but also inferior to the DCM. The MC for officers was inferior to the VC and DSO. Under the same review that discontinued the MM, the DSO (in its gallantry guise) & DCM have been replaced by the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross.

Neil
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Friday 15 December 06 19:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks to you all for replying to my post - has fathomed out some of the mystery of the MC.  When I had a look to see what it was / is for the site I looked at said was for officers only but clears up with the WO 2.  The edition of the London Gazette I managed to find was on 14th Novemer 1916 and he is listed as Coy S/M.  I know from the memoirs he was injured 14th July 1916.

Thanks again

Christine.
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: Wendi on Friday 15 December 06 19:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Christine, and a Warm Welcome to Rootschat  ;D

not sure how I can get this Medal Card on here (no scanner - awaiting it as xmas pressie!). 

Hide this message from the family, as I don't want to jeopardize the Christmas pressie, but as you downloaded the medal card it's inside your computer! somewhere

Don't want to get too teckie but if you can find what it's called, and where it is, in "My Documents" or something like that, you can attach it as a photograph or image.

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Friday 15 December 06 19:55 GMT (UK)
hi Wendi

Thanks for warm welcome.

Husband is going to show me how to do this tomorrow, I showed him what I had posted today (as he is his relative! though would love him to be "on my side")
and he is going to show me tomorrow.... in between all the xmas shopping we have to do....

Ta
Christine
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: Wendi on Friday 15 December 06 20:00 GMT (UK)
Hope hubbie isn't too pooped after the Christmas shopping to show you how.............these guys are not used to 6 hours shopping ! - but remind him we're all waiting  ;D

Enjoy your day!

Wendi
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: colrob on Friday 15 December 06 20:14 GMT (UK)
I look forward to reading in the London Gazette that Mr Christine has been awarded a gallantry medal for shopping.

The citation might read:
'For Coolness Under Fire' or perhaps
'For Devotion Beyond the Course of Normal Duty'.
 
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Friday 15 December 06 23:01 GMT (UK)
Christmas shopping with the husband reminds me of Kipling's famous poem...  If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... (or another of Kipling's "Take my word for it, the silliest woman can manage a clever man"!!!)   

But back to Rober Hancock  the reason I downloaded Medal Card was to see if it would reveal any more than I knew from London Gazette and also what I have read on the Somme on line from the day I know he was injured.  This may be another thread for me but does anybody know what a visit to Kew would reveal to me and also what I would need to know.  I have his service no. regt. etc. can I basically turn up and investigate the records (provided there are any I know from reading books that there was extensive damage to records during WWII) or is there a protocol etc.

Thanks again, this has been truly lovely was a bit concerened as a newbie I would be intimidated by people who knew their stuff!!!
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: manmack on Saturday 16 December 06 05:21 GMT (UK)
in the roll of honour for the 6th,7th,8th and 9th battalions of the leicester regt,sgt hancock is listed as transferring to class Z army reserve on 2-5-19,these battalions made up the 110th infantry brigade,mack
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: Wendi on Saturday 16 December 06 12:04 GMT (UK)
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs.............You haven't got a true grasp of the situation  ;D

This may be another thread for me but does anybody know what a visit to Kew would reveal to me and also what I would need to know.  I have his service no. regt. etc. can I basically turn up and investigate the records (provided there are any I know from reading books that there was extensive damage to records during WWII) or is there a protocol etc.

There are various discussions on Rootschat regarding "visiting Kew/National Archives" and I'm sure some of that chaps who go to Kew regularly will comment here too.

- hope the shopping went well  ;)

Wendi
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: bernard_lewis on Saturday 16 December 06 13:46 GMT (UK)
Have you seen Matthew Richardson's book on the Leicester battalions?: its called 'The Tigers' and is available from Pan & Sword Books, Barnsley. Only a F.J.Hancock in the index but if you want to know what they did/where they went...

On the London Gazette I understand that the search engine is being upgraded - results are very erratic at present apparently - so my earlier post may need reading in that light.

Bernard
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: bernard_lewis on Saturday 16 December 06 13:50 GMT (UK)
ps as you say the soldiers records at Kew are not complete - almost 70% destroyed by bombing in WW2. However, I have seen a number of these records (and not found a great deal more) and - if surviving - they will usually give a lot more info on your man. Forms he has filled in, Army forms charting his progress, discipline etc. Discharge testimonials from officers etc. Well worth a look.

Beyond the book (earlier post) the Battalion War Diary will give a day by day account of activities and might just name the man. Again, check the Bn and the units ABOVE it - Brigade and Division as they might have info on significant actions that involved your man.

Bernard

Bernard
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Sunday 17 December 06 00:17 GMT (UK)
thanks all again - funnily enough have ordered the Leics tigers book mentioned before reading this post (xmas present from me to me!)   I think next step Kew...
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: bernard_lewis on Sunday 17 December 06 21:12 GMT (UK)
You must have been a very good girl. When the book arrives have a look at page 125...

Bernard

 ;)
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: the cat's mother on Friday 22 December 06 20:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Bernard

Got book yesterday.....  I nearly fell over there's my (well my husband's great grandfather) man looking right back at me! goodness me and with a picture of the miltary cross too!  Husband can't wait to show his mum, we have pictures of him but from later in life but not from this period in tiem, she's (hopefully) going to be amazed.

Thanks again and a happy Christmas

Christine.
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: Wendi on Saturday 23 December 06 08:48 GMT (UK)
How exciting Christine  :D :D :D Do hope Mum in law is suitably impressed!

Nice one Bernard  ;)

Wendi
Title: Re: help re Military Cross & medal card please?
Post by: oliffe on Saturday 06 April 13 05:22 BST (UK)
Back in 2006 'cat's mother' a request for Robert Hancock, Reg No 13609 who won a Military Cross at the Battle of the Somme.  I am a descendant of his father William, - my grandmother was brother to Robert, and my mother was a good friend of Robert's wife Gladys (I presume that is the maternals great grandmother spoken of (and yes I think I have the memoirs spoken of).  We live in NZ and have regular contact with Robert's son, Gordon.  We here in NZ would like to access the book mentioned in this correspondence so we can access that picture of Robert with his military cross. 
If any of the people involved in this correspondence would like to reply I'd love to "talk" with you about your research. 
Olive