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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Webby on Thursday 07 December 06 06:34 GMT (UK)
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Could someone please have a look at the 1841 Census to see if there is an Isabella Povan in the Paisley area please.
Regards
Webby
:)
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Hi Webby :)
Soundex has come up with a Prevan and a Provand - one 15-19 and one 50-54. Both Renfrew - Kilbarchan or Greenock. Another index has 5 or 6 possibles:
40-44 in Glasgow St David
20-24 in Glasgow St Enoch
15-19 in Gorbals
15-19 in Kilbarchan
Two Mrs Provan , 20-24, in Paisley High
and the Provand, 50-54 in Greenock South
Could you give her approx age, please.
Regards
Gadget
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hi pal, as you can see from gadget's post it is not easy looking for someone in a census, unless there is a lot more detail.
what age is your isabella?
is she married?
you get the idea?
trying to help
Joe
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Thank you both for your help.
I at first thought that the two Mrs Provan's at Paisley High may have been a good source, but the age's aren't correct.
This Isabella was probably about 35 at that Census time and she would have been married. In the household there may have been a Mary Provan (daughter) aged around 15 years as well.
Sorry not much to go on!. But thanks for taking the time to have a look.
Cheers
Webby
:)
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hi pal, can i be rude and ask the source of your information? is it a death, marriage birth cert?
still searching!!!!!
Joe
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Thanks Joe for your help with these people.
I'm afraid my information comes from some notes that I had made some time ago with "Isabella - Mary's mother???".
I must have come across something to have written that down, but as a consequence can't remember what!!!
I haven't long started with this family, so I thought perhaps I might see if a Isabella Provan did exist in the 1841 Census.
Mary Provan/Kerr had that she was born in Renfrewshire on the 1851 Census -but as to how accurate the Census's were in Scotland I'm not sure.
Cheers
Webby
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Webby, by chance I've been researching Provan families in the Paisley area. My 4 x gt grandfather Malcolm McDonald had a daughter Janet who married mill owner Robert Provan in 1814 in Paisley.
The only Isabella Provan I've found on 1841 census lived in Kilbarchan (Barrholm St) near Paisley. See below 1841 census results for house dwelling in Barrholm Street.
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
PROVAN George M 45 Silk Hand Loom Weaver Renfrewshire
PROVAN Janet F 35 Silk Winder Renfrewshire
PROVAN Agness F 15 Silk Winder Renfrewshire
PROVAN Isabell F 15 Silk Winder Renfrewshire
PROVAN James M 13 Silk Winder Renfrewshire
PROVAN William M 10 Renfrewshire
PROVAN Janet F 7 Renfrewshire
PROVAN Ann F 4 Renfrewshire
PROVAN Alexr M 2 Renfrewshire
PROVAN Alexr M 35 Silk Hand Loom Weaver Unknown
Could someone please have a look at the 1841 Census to see if there is an Isabella Povan in the Paisley area please.
Regards
Webby
:)
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Hello George
Thank you very much for looking for these illusive Provan people!. I think I may have come to a dead end with them.
My Mary Provan would have been about 17 years of age in 1841, but I haven't been able to find her in that Census.
Her marriage to William Kerr in 1846 gives his address as 84 High St and her address at 74 High St, Paisley. The 1851 Census Mary gives her birth place as being Paisley. So goodness knows where she was for the 1841 Census.!.
So if you ever come across a Mary Provan in your search, I would be very pleased to hear from you ;D
PS: The Kerr family she married into were Upholsterer's - in 1827 they were at 7 Gauze St then in the 1838/1839 Trade Directory there was a Robert Provan, Manufacturer listed at 170 Causeyside with another entry for William Provan, manufacturer at 9 Gauze Street.
Regards
Webby
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Hello Webby
It's a long time since you posted this request and Joe and I looked for her - December 2006 :o
I've been looking some more but can't find any more than I found in my original search:
Soundex has come up with a Prevan and a Provand - one 15-19 and one 50-54. Both Renfrew - Kilbarchan or Greenock. Another index has 5 or 6 possibles:
40-44 in Glasgow St David
20-24 in Glasgow St Enoch
15-19 in Gorbals
15-19 in Kilbarchan
Two Mrs Provan , 20-24, in Paisley High
and the Provand, 50-54 in Greenock South
Gadget
I've traced Mary on the 1851 but so far have not found her after that on censuses or a death. I've only just started looking though so I might find something. Do you have a death date or any info that might help locate her to find her parentage, etc.
Another thing to consider is the alteration on her marriage entry - a different surname was entered but then amended to Provan. I can't work out what it is at the moment but it might give a lead to who she was on the 1841.
I've done a snip of it below.
Gadget
Added - also note that they married in the Methodist Church in the parish of Paisley High Church
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Hi again
I've just seen another thread on this family back in 2007. I see that you then said that they went to Australia in 1857:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,230327.msg1248276.html#msg1248276
Do you have Mary's death cert which should show her parent's names, so that we can be certain that we should be searching for an Isabella Provan?
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Mary and her family came to Tasmania in 1857. I also found what 'might' have been a reference to Mary in the Canal Street Session House book of 1852, but unfortunately, will never be able to ascertain whether it was the right Mrs Kerr.
This was to do with an application to restore membership - this could be true, as I had always thought Mary may have been of another Church. Mary & William had their children baptised in the C/E in Paisley, but I've never been able to find anything about her on SP or even the Paisley C/E records from the LDS.
I do have her death certificate but our certificates don't list parents- in fact don't list much at all (pre 1900).
Ah...Isabella Provan....trying naming patterns - long shot but I've nothing much else to go on at this time.
.....the children in this family seem to be named for various members of the Kerr family. Isabella was Mary & William's second child and that name does not appear amongst the general Kerr family.
I'm not sure about the crossed out name on Mary & Williams marriage. Mary & William had other children born in Tasmania and her name was given as Provan or Provin. I also couldn't work out what that crossed out name was either. This has been in the too hard basket for some time now, until I can get a lead .
Regards
Webby
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Webby,
The only Mary Provan of similar age (17) is recorded at Mews Lane - Gorbals - Glasgow (1841)
This Mary Provan is recorded as born in Lanarkshire (Glasgow area - see below). However, the early census returns are not always accurate. I've found this in my own searches, with family members being recorded as born in Paisley on one census and then Glasgow on another. Also, some of my own ancestors moved to Gorbals from Paisley for work or to join other family. Both places were weaving centers.
For 1841 there is also a Mary Provan (age 15) recorded at Balcamie - Ayrshire (father James Provan). And a Isabella Provan (age 40) recorded at 19 Brunswick Street - Glasgow. If you need this information I can send it on.
Thanks for Provan trade directory information. Would be interested if there any Mc/MacDonalds, Mc/MacGibbons or Stewarts recorded for Paisley trades 1770's - 1850's.
Perhaps you can send me any links you have ? Thanks.
Regards - George
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born
RENISON William M 55 Plumber England
RENISON (Mrs) F 50 Lanarkshire
RENISON Francis M 23 Blacksmith Journeyman Lanarkshire
RENISON Thomas M 18 Plumber Apprentice Lanarkshire
RENISON Jean F 7 Lanarkshire
PROVAN Mary F 18 Female Servant Lanarkshire
Hello George
Thank you very much for looking for these illusive Provan people!. I think I may have come to a dead end with them.
My Mary Provan would have been about 17 years of age in 1841, but I haven't been able to find her in that Census.
Her marriage to William Kerr in 1846 gives his address as 84 High St and her address at 74 High St, Paisley. The 1851 Census Mary gives her birth place as being Paisley. So goodness knows where she was for the 1841 Census.!.
So if you ever come across a Mary Provan in your search, I would be very pleased to hear from you ;D
PS: The Kerr family she married into were Upholsterer's - in 1827 they were at 7 Gauze St then in the 1838/1839 Trade Directory there was a Robert Provan, Manufacturer listed at 170 Causeyside with another entry for William Provan, manufacturer at 9 Gauze Street.
Regards
Webby
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Hi George
Many thanks for your info....I have also tried to follow through on the two Mary Provan's you mentioned, but again, rather too hard to try and prove who was whom!!.
With regard to the Trade Directory. Another wonderful chatter - Justin, who is very knowledgeable on Scot's churches, helped me with the TD entries. I think he may have been researching his family at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow(?), so he may have come across the TD's there. Perhaps if he comes online he may enlighten us!.
Once again George, many thanks for your help.
Regards
Webby
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Webby,
I'm still actively researching. If I note any relevant "Paisley" Provans will let you know.
Both the Poor Law records at Glasgow Mitchell library and Paisley reference library are a good source for early 1800's family information. I believe both libraries can do searches (by telephone or email ?) for a fee if you are unable to do any searches in person. Poor Law records started in 1832 (I think), they can provide useful additional information beyond the 1841 census. During my search information provided by poor law records gave a cross reference to the Provan family. I was then able to go back beyond 1800 by identifying 2 (previously unknown) siblings of my 3 x grandfather. From there I had was able to indentify common parents for three McDonald siblings for which there was only one match in Paisley.
Also, I believe there are Provans buried in the High Kirk (Oakshaw- Paisley) graveyard. Don't have my notes currently at hand but can share this information next time. This information came from Paisley rererence library.
Thanks - George
Hi George
Many thanks for your info....I have also tried to follow through on the two Mary Provan's you mentioned, but again, rather too hard to try and prove who was whom!!.
With regard to the Trade Directory. Another wonderful chatter - Justin, who is very knowledgeable on Scot's churches, helped me with the TD entries. I think he may have been researching his family at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow(?), so he may have come across the TD's there. Perhaps if he comes online he may enlighten us!.
Once again George, many thanks for your help.
Regards
Webby