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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: meggles on Wednesday 06 December 06 21:10 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Sorry second message today - I was also wondering how I would find a marriage in the army for John Petherick Harris born 1830 denbury Devon.
Family story is that he was married to a Spanish lady. In the 1851 census he was single but when he married for the second time in 1868 on his certificate he was a widow. I have not found a marriage for him in England but I know he spent nearly 5 years in Gilbrator, So is their anyway to search Gilbrator BMD? Or would the army have the records?
Thanks again
Megan
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First search the overseas GRO marriage index since that includes army marriages (before an army chaplain but not marriages in ordinary churches)
http://www.nationalarchivist.com/HomeServlet
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda
I have checked there but no luck.
I guess if he did marry overseas it was in a church and not in front of the army chaplin.
Megan
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If you check the Mormon's library catalogue for Gibraltar
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
you could order and view on microfilm at your nearest Family History Centre, Gibraltar's civil registration index (began in 1848) and some Catholic church records (you would expect marriages in these churches to be indexed in the civil registration index). The church records do not include Kings Military chapel - the Garrison church. You would have to write to them if you wanted a search in their records.
Not all the army marriage records held by the GRO are indexed. What is indexed is the army chaplains returns 1796-1880 but not the marriages in the regimental registers (not all of which the GRO holds) but of course there is overlap between the chaplains' returns and the regimental registers. If you know a soldier's regiment you could request a search in the regimental register if held by the GRO. The National Archives also holds a small number of regimental registers.
Regards
Valda
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Apologies for hi-jacking this thread, but wondered whether the sources you have cited will also hold good for baptisms of soldier's children. Have just discovered my BIL's ancestor was in the 15th Dragoons late 1700s/early 1800s. There are several children we think were his but not sure where to look for baptism records (one we are particlarly interested in had inconsiderately died before noting her birthplace on the 1851 census).
Cheers,
Ermy
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Regimental birth indexes (baptisms before 1837 but the GRO issue them on certificates) begin in 1761 at the GRO.
http://www.neukol.org.uk/teesonline/famhist/downloads/GRO%20INDEXES%20OF%20OVERSEAS%20BIRTHS.htm
Regards
Valda
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Oooh, thanks Valda, didn't know that, will give them a go.
Cheers,
Ermy
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Hi
I was wondering if you had any info on trying to find a birth in Germany. My ancestor was born in Nasau, Germany in 1824. Not sure if this was in the military though. On the census he says that he is a british citizen.
I would be glad of any help
Thanks in advance
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If it was not an army baptism or a birth which was registered with the British consular then it won't appear in the GRO overseas indexes. Have you checked those sources?
Both these websites have access to the GRO overseas indexes
http://www.familyrelatives.com/
http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp
What occupation for their father does your ancestor give on their marriage certificate? Does the information give any clues to a military connection?
If the baptism does not appear in the GRO overseas index you would need to look in local sources for a baptism in a church in the Nassau area . The Moderator Berlin-Bob should be able to advise you.
Regards
Valda
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John Petherick HARRIS was born in Denbury 1830, son of Edward, a seaman and Ann
Marriage: 9/2/1869
John Harris widower Colour Sgt 82nd Reg Foot (Father Edward Harris - seaman) Marries Mary Ann Hodgson spinster (Father James Hodgson Sgt Major - 82nd Reg Foot) at (Prescot) St Helens Lancaster.
The Wedding Banns 1/2/1829 at St. Mary the Virgin, Denbury Banns Number 22, Minister: John Bradford. Mentions that both are “sojournes in this Parish”
CENSUS RECORDS:
1871 Census: Verne Citadel Barracks, Isle of Portland, Weymouth Dorset
John 40 Sgt Army born Exeter, Mary Ann 25 born (Toronto) Canada West. James Edward 1 Born Aldershot Hants John Hodgson Harris Son M 0 Portland, Dorsetshire.
1881 Census: 89 Temple Street, Manchester JP Harris 50 Drill master and Provision dealer (Born Denbury Devon), Hannah 35 ( Born Maccelsfield Cheshire) , James son 11 born Aldershot, Hamp.
1891 Census: 174 Strand Street, Shaldon, Ashburton John P. Harris Army pensioner (Born Denbury Devon) Hannah (45 Born Maccelsfield)
1901 Census: 61 Dagman Street, Shaldon Devon JP Harris 70 Army Pensioner born Denbury, Devonshire, Hannah 56 (wife) born Macclesfield Cheshire
PROBATE:
Harris John Petherick of Dagmar-villa, Shaldon Devonshire army pensioner died 16/9/1908. Probate Exeter 25/9/1908 Hannah Harris widow Effects £70 1 s
2nd Marriage:
4/10/1879 Prestbury, Cheshire JP Harris and Hannah Beckett, father Samuel.
Hannah Beckett bapt 13 Jul 1845 St George, Sutton (near Macclesfield), Cheshire
daughter of Samuel & Mary Beckett
Service number Looks like : 49B - 368 with details.
Mentions that he had in his possession The Crimea Medal with sebastopol clasp, and the Turkish Medal.
It would be very inetresting to view/located these 2 medals !
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If you can get to Kew the muster books from the late 1860s include details of the married roll. It gives forename of wife, ages of children in years and months (but no names) plus date they were entered on the establishment.
If you wish to obtain details of the children you can look at earlier musters to see where the father was when the child was born, and then look at local church records.
Regarding survival of medals, medal collectors estimate that less than 15% of 19th Century medals survive. You could try putting a post on the British Medal Forum. Someone there may have auction records.
The Sebastopol clasp was given for spending any time in the trenches during the 11 month siege. The British medal will be inscribed with the soldiers details around the edge. The Turkish medal was issued unnamed.
Ken
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Hi ken - the medals that skeates is looking for are with John Pethericks great great grandson here in Australia. cheers MM