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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Doughty on Wednesday 06 December 06 11:27 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help me. If appears that my great grandfather lied about his age at the time of his marriage. Details from the marriage cert are: Charles Doughty age 40, Widower, Labourer, Brunswick st, father Charles Doughty, Labourer married Alice Evans, age 34, Spinster, Brunswick st, father George Evans, Forgeman (deceased) on Feb 15th 1915 in the parish of st george, Wolverhampton in the presense of Thomas A and Fanny L Box. The marriage record of thomas and fanny show her maiden name was Evans.
I've searched through the bmd records for all charles doughtys born around the right time, then searched the death records which got rid of all but 2, and i've found both of these married in the place they were born with families on the 1901 census so have discounted them.
Now i have found a charles doughty born to a charles doughty in bilston which is near but the dates don't match up, he would be around 6 years older. Is there anyway i can find out for sure if this is the same charles?
Just to add another spanner to the works the marriage was 3 years after my grandfather was born but his birth cert gives his mother as Alice doughty, formerly Evans so looks like she took his name without getting married. I've also find an Alice Doughty on the 1901 census married, living with her 2 toddler sons and boarding with another family. In the same street is, I believe her Mother also Alice Evans, widow. Earlier census shows her husband was George.
So it looks like my great grandparents were having children together long before they married and as Charles is a widower at marriage i'm wondering if they had to wait for his 1st wife to die before they could make there relationship official.
Any thoughts anyone.
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Hi Doughty
Welcome to Rootschat :D
It is possible he lied about his age just to reduce the age gap or maybe it is a mistake - a badly written 6 could look like a 0. Where is your possible Alice living in 1901? Any other Doughtys in the area?
Jan ;)
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Thanks for the reply. There were actually 12 charles doughty's living in the area on the 1901 census. The one born 1870 is son of margaret and charles and was still single and living with his mom and siblings on the 1901, his father deceased. This makes me think that this isn't the one as if he was single at this time why wouldn't he have married Alice as if i have the right Alice she already had 2 children with him at this point. In fact, just realised how i can check this, i will send for birth cert of one of the children of alice doughty on the 1901. there is also a charles doughty married to Sarah born 1867 in bilston which could be another possible.
Forgot to mention, on my grandfathers birth cert Charles occupation is canal boatman so he could of come from anywhere.
in 1901 Alice Doughty was living with the Revill family at 112 Granville street wolverhampton. Her occupation was boat worker (canal) and she had 2 son's John W Doughty age 3 and Charles doughty age 2. A few doors down at no. 109 is Alice Evans widow with her children.
The age 40 is very clear, I don't think it could be anything else.
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Tis a tricky one.
If you do have the right Alice then Charles may have missed the 1901 census by being away on a canal boat I suppose.
I'll have a think and come back to you
Jan ;)
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Well, just received the birth cert this morning, and the Alice doughty living with the Revill family is indeed my great grandmother. I sent for the birth cert for her younger son Charles and it confirms her maiden name as Evans (although they didn't marry until 1915) and fathers name as Charles doughty, boatman.
Birth was registered by a Fanny Weston/Haslon? who was present at the birth.
Bearing in mind that my great grandfather Charles Doughty was a widower at the time of his marriage in 1915 I'm wondering if by some amazing coincidencee he married 2 women called Alice Evans or he was having children with Alice while married to someone else and also having children with them.
Any thoughts anyone? my head's spinning lol.
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Hi again
It is possible Charles married 2 Alice Evans. Can you find a suitable marriege for a Charles Doughty and Alice Evans prior to 1901? Have you found your Alice on earlier censuses with mum Alice and father George? Does she match up with the Alice Doughty found in 1901?
It is probably more likely that Charles had another family somewhere along the Canal he worked could be anywhere though. I've had a look but no boatman married Charles of suitable age is presenting himself.
Sadly you might need to wait till the 1911 comes out and hope Charles is with Alice on this occasion - he would then be easier to track back.
You could try all mid to late 1890's marriages for Charles in Staffs/Warwickshire area and see if you can find the relevant couples in 1901 but that might have your head spinning even more :D
Jan ;)
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Could be red herring but
Marriage
Charles Doughty Apr qtr 1890 Stoke on Trent district
Hannah Prudence Jones on same page
1901
Lord St Manchester
Prudence Doughty Boarder 27 Mar Charwoman Staffs Lichfield
Mabel Doughty Boarder 3 Lancs Hulme
in household of Mary Banks widow
RG13/3707/14 Pg19
Jan ;)
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I was hoping to find the above couple in 1891 but haven't as yet. Have looked at canals though - the Staffs and Worcs canal from Wolverhampton joins the Mersey and Trent goes through Stoke and then up to the Manchester Ship which goes through Hulme where young Mabel was born :-\
Jan ;)
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Thank you for helping me, i'm currently searching through the marriages prior to 1901 it would seem Alice Doughty nee evans was having children for many years as my granddads youngest sibling wasn't born until 1923 and her first must have been born aroung 1897, and i'm now wondering how many children they had inbetween the 1901 census and when the mothers maiden name started to appear on the birth records in 1911. My granddad was born in 1912 so it seems my dad had more uncles and aunts than he realised. Roll on 2011
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A few more thoughts
There is a Wolverhampton Charles born c 1873 on the 1881 and 1891 census - only problem is his father is Richard not Charles. Maybe worth checking out the original parish register entry for your Charles/Alice marriage it could be the Charles as father is a mistake.The above Charles is missing from the census in 1901. There is an April qtr 1901 marriage in Wolverhampton for a Charles to either a Charlotte or Sarah - presumably after the census as I can't see them in 1901.
It is possible Alice and Charles did not marry because she was under 21 when they began having children and her parents wouldn't give permission. Maybe Charles then married someone else but he and Alice continued their relationship.
Happy hunting
Jan ;)
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Its been a long wait but i have the 1911 census page for Alice and Charles Doughty. They are now living together as man and wife in brunswick street with 5 children John, 13, Charles 12, Edward 8, James 5 and Rose 1 yr 6mths. It also says there were 4 other children born alive but no longer living. All are listed as born in wolverhampton accept Edward who was born in Runcorn Cheshire. Charles occupation is now bricklayers labourer not boatman and his age is 43 despite him been listed as 40 on his wedding cert 4yrs later, no wonder i couldn't find him. As they are still at same address when they got married i know i'm looking at the right family. There were 2 Charles doughtys born in wolverhampton at around the right time of 1865 1866 and both had fathers named charles so how do i now find out which is the right 1. And how do i find out who he was previously married 2. The census has narrowed it down but raised more questions.
Any help much appreciated.
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Hi again
Glad you found them in 1911 :D
Just come across this family in 1871 which I like the look of
Sowerby Bridge Yorkshire Vessels
Charles Doughty Married 35 Boatman Master Worcester
Martha do Wife 29 Wolverhampton
Clara do Daur 8 do
Chas do Son 6 do
Sarah Jane do Daur 4 do
Harriett do do 2 do
Jas Matthew do Son 3 mo do
John Whatton 19 Boatman Mate Gloucs Tewkesbury
RG10/4402/62 Pg45
Jan ;)
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Hiya Doughty
Welcome to Rootschat!
There is a marriage on FreeBMD for
1/4 1866 Wolverhampton 6b 581
Charles Doughty
also on the same page
Martha Lucas
Margaret Probert
I have looked but I cant find the marriage on the Wolverhampton Archives site or FreeREG
Willow x