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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: peterbees on Monday 04 December 06 16:22 GMT (UK)

Title: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 04 December 06 16:22 GMT (UK)
I have found John Alford b.1819 m. 1865, Emily Harding b.1849 in St. Mary's Donnhead Wilts and I am looking for Emma Harding, Emily's mother b. Stowie/Bridgewater.
 Her dad, George Harding of Gillingham, married another woman Elizabeth Flower. They had two children George Jr. and Felix Harding.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: lady hendon on Monday 01 January 07 19:14 GMT (UK)
I take it you've found John & Emily on 1881 census living in MOTCOMBE with
4 children
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 19:47 GMT (UK)
Yes, I also obtained a birth cert. for Emily which led me into two different directions for the Hardings in in the Goathurst area. I will be looking at the Alfords more closely in order that I get them all acounted for in Motcombe. Are you connected in any way?
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 19:52 GMT (UK)
There is an Emily Harding age 2 yrs in 1851 census. She is born in Donhead Wiltshire and living with parents Charles Harding and Mary. There is also a child Martha. I presume this isn't her.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 19:57 GMT (UK)
Is George the father of Emma?
I have found the family in 1851 but Emily is born 1841, Gillingham Dorset
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:01 GMT (UK)
1841 has George and Elizabeth and Emily born 1840.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 20:05 GMT (UK)
Anything is possible, but her birth cert. is registered in Aisholt with only her mother's name Emma, and the Parish in Enmore has made the entry with Emma Harding as mother, but the entry on the census, both 1881 Emily is 22, if I recall it properly, and the 1861 Emily is 12.
This would be my great grandmother. I have the marriage cert for Emily and John  Alford. George Harding is listed as the father. Could this be George Charles Harding?
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:08 GMT (UK)
The 1881 census has Emily born 1841 so I don't think she is the one born Donhead. She is perhaps the one in 1841 census - they have amongst several children Felix.
I can give you these details if you want.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:10 GMT (UK)
She is 40 in 1881 - George is her father in 1841 but it is a puzzle re Emma- mother. I'll have another look.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 20:12 GMT (UK)
That would be great. I will scan these certs. for Emily and forward them to you if you wish.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:19 GMT (UK)
No need re certificates yet - are you descended from John Alford and Emily and is your Emily definitely connected to Felix?
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 20:22 GMT (UK)
Yes, John and Emily were my dad's grandparents.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 20:25 GMT (UK)
My family tree has my Alford's, Gatehous's, Harding's see http://tribalpages.com/tribes/peterbees  for the names.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:38 GMT (UK)
well this seems to be the one you are interested in:

1881 RG11; Piece: 2081; Folio: 101; Page: 2

Knap Hill Motcombe
John Alford  59 yrs ag labourer b Motcombe
Emily  40 yrs b Gillingham (?)
Mary E 10 yrs
Christiana L 8 yrs
Sarah K 4 yrs
William J 2 yrs
all born Motcombe

more to follow
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 20:39 GMT (UK)
Felix Harding and Ambrose Harding's signatures show up on my great   aunt Sarah Kate Alford's marriage Cert. to William Gatehouse. Sarah Kate was John Alford's daughter and sister to Albert Philip Alford, A.K.A.,Alfred James Seymour. He took this name while in Canada and enlisted in WW1 in that name. In order to get married to my grandmother Edith Banks he had to use his proper name hence, Alford-Seymour. That is where I get it from.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:54 GMT (UK)
1871 RG10; Piece: 1968; Folio: 73; Page: 6

Enmore Green Motcombe
John Alford  51 yrs ag labourer b Motcombe
Emily  30 yrs seamstress b Gillingham
Emma J daur 10 yrs b Portsmouth Hants
Mary A cousin  55 yrs seamstress b Motcombe
Mary E daur 5 months b Motcombe

Free BMD Dec quarter 1865 marriage

1861
Can't find this Emily as yet- mmm...

1851 HO107; Piece: 1851; Folio: 298; Page: 2
Gillingham Dorset

George Harding  36 yrs  carpenter
Elizabeth  34 yrs
Ambrose  14 yrs ag labourer
Emily  10 yrs silk throuster (?)
Charlotte 9 yrs
Albert 7 yrs
Felix 5 yrs
Mary Louisa 2 yrs

all born Gillingham

Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 20:59 GMT (UK)
1841 HO107/290/17
Gillingham
George Harding 25 yrs
Elizabeth 20 yrs
Ambrose 5 yrs
Louisa 2 yrs
Emily 1 yrs

with the connections you mention this Emily does seem to be yours.
best wishes
heywood
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 21:02 GMT (UK)
I have seen the Emily you refer to in your tree living with the Foots. What do you think now?
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 21:02 GMT (UK)
Thank you! That sure fixed things in a snap.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 21:15 GMT (UK)
 Ann Foot was a Harding and there was one Mary Harding working there as astraw bonnet maker and seamstress. I just can't tie Ann Harding to Emily's line. I have a hunch that Ann was a sister to George Harding. I will order a cert for George. These Hardings seem to be in the same business today as builders.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 21:28 GMT (UK)
There is a good chance that Emily is not the same person and perhaps a cousin. I will have to be careful. When I get home from work,I will look at this again. My hunch is that Emily stayed at the Rose and Crown while the rest of the family worked in Gillingham. Mary could have been Emily's sister.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 21:36 GMT (UK)
I'm getting a bit confused and you are right to check everything again.

EmilyHarding born 1849 is living with what seem to be parents in 1851- Charles and Mary and Mary's father Thomas Shirley.
Charles Harding is born 1822 Shaftesbury - he is on 1841 census with a brother George (not the one mentioned here before) and an Ann Harding born 1817. (Don't forget that ages were rounded up/down in 1841 census).

By the way I cannot find John Alford anywhere before 1871 and Emily not in 1861!
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 22:03 GMT (UK)
I think that it was Motcombe baptisms that I found John Alford born to Philip Alford and Betty Burlton. The Puzzle worked quite well using these baptism entries with the online Dorset Parish Clerks.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 22:07 GMT (UK)
I think that it was Motcombe baptisms that I found John Alford born to Philip Alford and Betty Burlton. The Puzzle worked quite well using these baptism entries with the on-line Dorset Parish Clerks.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 22:20 GMT (UK)
Emma  Alford dau. of John, was born in Portsmouth so perhaps her parents were under the radar there.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 22:24 GMT (UK)
Yes I saw John's baptism on Family Search - Gillingham - so he is/was there.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 22:35 GMT (UK)
There is a fellow living in Motcombe and although we have the same Alford name in such a small town, we can't link his James Alford b. 1772 Motcombe married Sarah Burton to any of my Alfords. There are no births available before 1837. What does one do?
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 23:04 GMT (UK)
I have looked again at Family Search and notice that only Christian's record is verified - John and Elizabeth are both submitted by LDS members- which may be you but if not take care if there are not some official records. However, I note that you say you have got them from Church records.
I do not know what to do other than church records when you go pre 1837 unless the people are in 1841 census.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 23:12 GMT (UK)
It has also just dawned on me as i look again that John and Emily were married 1865 but Emma J was born 1861ish in Portsmouth - must be too much of the New Year celebrations- not thinking straight!
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 23:20 GMT (UK)
The Dorset on line Parish Clerks has all the Dorset Parishes listed and most records transcribed form Baptism, marriage and death records see http://www.dorset-opc.com for more information. It was a real quick way of finding your folks. I wish that they had this in Somerset and Middlesex. The stuff there is only for sale except for the Family search and Freebmd. This is great and I wonder if I could make this site a quick link on my web page. Most folks don't know about it.
What do you think?
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 23:23 GMT (UK)
it is good when you get that.
I found John in 1861 with his sister Elizabeth at home in Motcombe so I am happy now!
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Monday 01 January 07 23:30 GMT (UK)
Yes John was with his sister and his sister had a son, I think was called
Philip Josiah (Alford ?) b. 1836. I will look that one up for sure.
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: heywood on Monday 01 January 07 23:39 GMT (UK)
yes found them in 1851 and also had a quick look at the site- good.
Well I'd say you are on the way to sorting this one now. I am off to bed.
Best wishes for 2007
heywood
Title: Re: ALFORD/HARDING/FLOWER
Post by: peterbees on Tuesday 02 January 07 11:50 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much. You are a great help. Have a great new year. Peter Alford-Seymour