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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Norfolk => England => Norfolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: thylacene on Friday 01 December 06 06:33 GMT (UK)
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Have traced by ancestor Thomas Travis to Norfolk where he was transported to Australia in 1844 for sheep stealing. Convict documents are difficult to read but appears he was from Wyndonham where he was born around 1825.
Would very much appreciate if someone has access to BDM documents if they can confirm his birth or christening and possibly parents names.
Not sure if this is possible but am finding it difficult from Oz.
This line is proving very difficult for me..he was quite a character apparently, liked a beer and was always in trouble whilst serving his 10 yrs, and still proving difficult!!
cheers & many thanks from Oz
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Hi there....
Was just browsing the Travis surname and came across your post.
Err... my name is Travis (Pete Travis) -and I live in Wymondham in Norfolk!!!!!
I've had a look through the 1841 census returns, and there is no Thomas Travis recorded as living anywhere in this area. That doesn't mean anything of course, the census returns notoriously missed people, and anyway, he might have been travelling at the time. As you probably know Travis is a name specifically associated with Lancashire, and Yorkshire.
Exactly what information do you already have???
Posted the above last night, but have been wondering what a Northern lad was doing in Wymondham in 1844. However, it's just struck me that the railway station opened in 1845, so presumably the line was being laid during 1843/44. He could have well been a navvy, with the bright idea of adding a bit of mutton to his diet.
I've checked the census for 1841, and there are only 11 Travises mentioned between the ages of 15 and 18 -and the only 16 year old comes from Warrington.
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Hi pete,
Great to hear from you!...am not sure what Info I can supply you about Thomas Travis.
All the details I have are from his convict records which state he was tried in Norfolk on March 25 1844 for sheep stealing and was Transported to Hobart for 10 yrs arriving in Hobart on Sept 6 1844.
He was Protestant, a bricklayer by trade & could read & write.
He was 21 yrs old With Native Place stated as Wyndonham Norfolk.
Thomas had 10 offences listed between his arrival & 1853, mostly for being drunk & disorderly and fighting.
He married another Convict Ellen Dempsey in 1854.
As for details on his time before Transportation I have hit a brick wall.
If Thomas does turn out to be attached to your line, I have full details of his decendants in Oz.
cheers
Mike
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Does the marriage cert give any parental details?
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No such luck. Tasmanian Marriage Certificates did not include parent details until 1896 :-[
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Hi there
Right, if he was 21 in March 1844 he would have been 19 in March 1841 when the census was taken. And the only 19 year old Thomas Travis recorded :-\ is from Liverpool, and occupation "jSmith" (Junior Smith????) parents John and Susannah. John Travis is also a "smith". Whatever your records say I am absolutely certain that he was not originally from Wymondham
The occupation of bricklayer is a puzzle, but if my theory that this is connected with the building of the railway is correct, that project would have used both metal workers to lay the track and bricklayers to build the stations. So he may have, errr.. multi-tasked as we would now say. I'm not sure how much local labour was used, but if my memory is correct the railways were usually built by specialist gangs that travelled the country
The date of March 24th is very helpful, as the original court records should be available.He was probably tried in Norwich Assizes, quite a few people were transported from here, having been held in the old castle jail. Also there may well be some magistrates committal documents in our town archives.
Anyway, I'll try to find out more over the next few weeks, and I'll keep you posted
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Don't forget ages were rounded down in 1841, so any of the 15yrold Thomas' could be a likely candidate.
I totally agree that he didn't come from Norfolk as there doesn't appear to be any Travis' in Norfolk at that time.
The court reports and maybe newspaper reports may yield more information.
:-\ :-\
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Found these on the following website, i know the dates don,t match but Thetford is not far from Wymondham, maybe Thomas Travis is the father of your Thomas, and maybe Elizabeth is another relative, just a guess really but its a little more to go on.
http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/index.php
Surname Listings for 'TRAVIS'
Baptisms (Parish Register)
Place. Register. Year. Surname. Forename. Parents.
Thetford District Thetford St Marys 1742 Travis Thomas Willm & Mary
Mitford & Launditch District Little Fransham
1901 Census
TRAVERS, Elizabeth B, 54 serv wid cook (domestic)
Born,Barton Bradstock, DOR
38/1--3
DOR (Dorset)?
Regards Gordon
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Thanks for the complement Gordon.
I know that us Travises are a pretty hardy lot, and I hope I'll still be able to father children at the age of 80!!!! 8)
Seriously though, thanks for the research. First historical reference I've seen to the name locally in the 18th or early 19th century. So he may just be a local lad -but if so the name seems to have died out, probably with him. Does anyone know if the 1841 census records for Norfolk are complete, or do they have big bits missing?
Another thought has occurred to me. If my hunch that he was working on the building of the railway is correct, it is always possible that he was Irish....
Another useful reference could also be http://archives.norfolk.gov.uk/documents/pdf/NRO014_Transportation_to_Australia.pdf but I note that they say that the records could be a bit patchy. But i should be able to get into Norwich after the Easter break so I can have a look.
Incidentally, March 25th 1844 was a Monday, and I think was a fortnight before Easter that year. Which looks like he was tried at the beginning of the Easter Assizes of that year.
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Oh dear i seem to have got the dates mixed up a bit :-[, but i am sure you see what i am getting at ; ;D
every little helps.
Gordon
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Sorry to but in on this but I wondered if Pete was related to the Travis family from the Pontefract area.
My uncle married into the Travis family and I am trying to help his son find his ancestors. I have a bit of information but it would be good to find more for him.
Thanks.
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Sorry to but in on this but I wondered if Pete was related to the Travis family from the Pontefract area.
Not that I'm aware of, but as it is a relatively unusual name (in the UK at least) there will be some common roots somewhere.
My own Travises come from the Sheffield, Doncaster area (not very far away from Pontefract), but just to confuse matters my partner also has strong Travis ancestry. But her's come from the Liverpool area -and (back on theme) family legend says that there is a strong (protestant) Irish connection, although I have yet to trace it.
Sue, do you have any links to the family?
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Many thanks to all for their input! I do appreciate everybodys efforts. Its so difficult to track down info from Oz. Even with the internet we are still Isolated.
The "Irish" theory may be a good one as he married another convict "Ellen Dempsey" who was from County Carlow in Ireland.
Pete, a closer look of the convict records with both magnifying glass & a "Scan & Zoom" gives the trial location as "Norfolk Assizes". Not sure how that works in with "Norwich"
Happy Easter to you all!
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Got it!!!!!
The trial was held on Wednesday March 27th 1844 at the Lent Assizes held in Norwich. (March 25th was the opening of the session). The case is reported in the Saturday March 30th edition of the Norfolk Chronicle exactly as follows:
SHEEP STEALING. -Robert Drake and Thomas Travers [not in the calendar] were indicted for having stolen, on the 10th of March, a sheep, the property of Mr. Matthews, of Wymondham. -Mr Evans prosecuted, and Mr W.Cooper defended the prisoner Drake. -The sheep was taken away, killed, and the skin and part of the carcase were found in a field belonging to Mr Atkins. Some mutton fat and bones were found in Drake's house; also some mutton in a chest, wrapped in a handkerchief.The bones were found to correspond with the part of the carcase found in the field; and the shoes of the prisoners fitted impressions which were made in and from the field. -Guilty. To be transported ten years.
Note the different spelling of Travis.
The only Robert Drake from Wymondham lived in White Horse Street, his father was a publican -and if it is the same one, he was 14 at the time of the offense (you could check the convict records). White Horse Street is about half a mile yards from the railway station -but what is just as fascinating for me is that it is at the end of the road where I live.
The Atkins farm appears to have been at Coston, which is about 5 miles away from Wymondham, but again is about half a mile away from the railway line. Haven't tracked down Mr Matthews, but it is still common practice to graze your sheep on someone else's land. March is of course lambing time.
There is a Thomas Travers of the right age in the 1841 census, recorded as staying in what appear to be slum dwellings called "Peerless Place" in the seediest part of Shoreditch London. Interestingly he has no place of birth recorded and his occupation is given as (I think) MS whatever that means. As some of the the women are given as FS, the M presumably stands for male. Anyone any idea what the S stands for?????
Anyway, hope that all helps. I've got a scan of the court report if you'd like it.
Best wishes,
Pete
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Pete,
Your a legend!!
Many thanks for the effort you have put in. I would love a copy of the court report if its not too much trouble. I will PM you my email address.
I have always tried to convince my wife that I am decendant from high class stock! this proves it! ;)
What a coincidence that Robert Drake lived so close to your current address!
I will track down Robert Drakes convict records and if you are interested I can foward them to you.
Once again many thanks for your efforts.
cheers
Mike
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Hi Pete,
Good chance your "kid from down the road" is the Robert Drake of sheep napping fame i guess. I am going to send away to Tasmania for his convict records. When I get them I'll foward you a copy.
Only details I have at the moment are that he was Transported on the same ship as Thomas Travis. The Barossa which departed may 17 1844.
While a convict, he requested permission to marry 3 times, Dec 1847, Jan 1849 & May 1849.
Always to the same girl, a Mary Anne Alfred who was a convict from Dublin interned at the "Female Factory" in Hobart, a miserable place which I have visited in the past.
From what I can gather, all requested were refused by convict board but will get more info from records.
cheers
Mike
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. Interestingly he has no place of birth recorded and his occupation is given as (I think) MS whatever that means. As some of the the women are given as FS, the M presumably stands for male. Anyone any idea what the S stands for?????
Anyway, hope that all helps. I've got a scan of the court report if you'd like it.
Best wishes,
Pete.
On the 1841 census, MS = male servant and FS = female servant
Bee :D
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Pete,
dont hold your breath for the Convict records.
Have been told by Tasmanian Archives that there is a 10 week delay! ???
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No problems, no hurry :)
Our local town archivist has now also become fascinated by this slice of local history.
Best wishes
Pete
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Hi pete,
Finally have a reply from tasmanian records office concerning Robert Drake.
They have sent me a photocopy of his "record of behaviour" whilst a convict in Tasmania.
They state this is the only surviving record of Robert Drake.
It is quite dark and difficult to read the script so I will scan it to a high resolution and try to make some sense of it.
I will send you a copy of the scan & translation in the next couple of days.
cheers
Mike
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Pete,
you may like to check out this website, the Abbey is 10 min from my house and am going to check out the tournament next week. Its quite an event here
http://www.abbeytournament.com
cheers
Mike
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Thanks
The event looks fun! Very similar to what we do here in the UK -only we have REAL castles, abbeys and battlefieldsto play in. Have a look at this... (if it doesn't open easily, press "refresh". I'm the apothecary 8)
http://www.itvlocal.com/central/news/?player=CEN_News_26&void=70348
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Hi there,
Yes, PDF arrived safely.
Right, obviously there are more than one person called Robert Drake.
The Robert Drake of Wymondham (who lived near us) is obviously not the same one, as he is in the 1841 census as being aged 10. His father is a publican.
The Sheep Stealing Robert Drake is recorded as being 21 when convicted in 1844. Following that one through on the same census, there is only one Robert Drake of the right age in Norfolk in and he is at Cold Harbour, near Ludham -which is a very obscure corner of the Norfolk Broads. He is listed as an Apprentice, but listed next to him is a Thomas Ford -shoemaker. Robert is listed as having been born abroad.
By the time we get to the 1851 census, there is a Robert Drake, shoemaker, in Norwich -married to Mary Anne. The convicted Robert married Martha Anne, but names can change.
I'm not familiar with convict records, but I do note that the page appears to have been signed off in either 1849 or 1850. Could he have been released and returned to England?
Intriguing!!!!
Thanks a lot,
Pete
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You may be right.
I can find no trace of him after his convict records finish!
Even searched in all Australian States!
He may have returned to England but from what I have been told this was very rare and discouraged.
Marriages before transportation were even considered annulled & most remarried in oz.
cheers
Mike
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Got him!
More records have just been released on Ancestory.
It looks like he was pardoned after serving 6 years and 3 months. That would have been May/June 1850. Just enough time to get back to Norwich before the 1851 census
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By the time we get to the 1851 census, there is a Robert Drake, shoemaker, in Norwich -married to Mary Anne. The convicted Robert married Martha Anne, but names can change.
I really ought to read and post more carefully. According to the original records he was already married -to a Martha Anne.
But if his marriage was considered annulled, then it makes sense that he was now "interested in" Mary Anne Alfred. Looking up her records, she was convicted in 1844 on a 7 year term, but was at some point pardoned. (The records are not clear as to when), but it must have been in 1850 or earlier. So she would have been free to return to the UK with him when he was pardoned.
However I've now found that Robert Drake's original 1842 marriage in Norwich was to a Mary Anne Elizabeth Pointer , despite the records saying Martha Anne. And in the 1871 census his wife is named as Mary Anne E Drake. So maybe the relationship with Mary Alfred did not work out and he returned to Norwich to live with his UK wife.
It could of course be that there are two Robert Drakes here, but I think that the combination of name, correct age and profession (shoemaker) are enough to identify him.
Any comments anybody?
Pete