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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: C.T on Sunday 26 November 06 16:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Looking for how my great great grandfather Patrick Doolan arrive in the colony from Ardpatrick Ireland. He was married the 5 Nov1835 Black Creek ( Branxton, NSW ) to Margaret Mannix, by Father Watkins, he died 29 Dec 1869, at Branxton, NSW, from Ardpatrick, Ireland, which is on his headstone, his death certificate don't match he was apparently 56 year in the colony, 42 year old when he married and 85 years old when he died, which makes him abt 51 years old when he married, his last child was born 1856
There is a Patrick Doolan who arrive in 1814 on the " Three Bee " but he married a Euphemia Clark, he died in 1836, Wollombi, NSW. He was from Westmeath Ireland
Margaret Mannix was only 23 when she married Patrick
If anyone could help it would be much appreciated,
C.T
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Hi C.T.
Go to this website, search under 1814 and ship Three Bees and you will find your man with a fair bit of info.
http://www.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/ships.htm
Cheers
Bob
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Hi
Looking for how my great great grandfather Patrick Doolan arrive in the colony from Ardpatrick Ireland. He was married the 5 Nov1835 Black Creek ( Branxton, NSW ) to Margaret Mannix, by Father Watkins, he died 29 Dec 1869, at Branxton, NSW, from Ardpatrick, Ireland, which is on his headstone, his death certificate don't match he was apparently 56 year in the colony, 42 year old when he married and 85 years old when he died, which makes him abt 51 years old when he married, his last child was born 1856
There is a Patrick Doolan who arrive in 1814 on the " Three Bee " but he married a Euphemia Clark, he died in 1836, Wollombi, NSW. He was from Westmeath Ireland
Margaret Mannix was only 23 when she married Patrick
If anyone could help it would be much appreciated,
C.T
Hi CT,
look at this:
http://www.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/cgi-bin/db1/search.cgi?query=4750
Marriage:
V1835266 123/1835
DOOLAN PATRICK
MANNIG MARGARET
LK = Roman Catholic East Maitland, Maitland, West Maitland
Children:
V1836412 121A/1836
DOOLAN ELLEN .
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Hi
The Patrick Doolan on the " Three Bees " is not my Patrick. The Patrick on the ship" Three Bees " did married Euphemia Burnett in 1819, and no issue only a adopted daughter whom Euphemia had before she was sent to Australia What you are finding on the Peter Mayberry Site is what I put on there thinking he was my Patrick, but I found that Patrick from the "Three Bees" died 17 Nov 1836 at Wollombi, Euphemia a widow married a Johnstone, forgot to take it off the site
I have Patrick Doolan and Margaret Mannix wedding certificate married 5 Nov 1835 at Black Creek (Branxton, NSW )
After they were married they live at Branxton, until their deaths, they had 11 children, the Ellen you mention died in 1836 and is buried at the Old St Peter's Gleb Cemetery a Matiland also a William and a Patrick is buried there too
On his death certificate his name was Patrick Dolan, but on the headstone Doolan, he was from Ardpatrick,Limerick Ireland also on headstone
The biggest problem is when he arrive in Australia, was he a convict, and how did he get to the Hunter Valley District, his descendants are huge
My mother was a Doolan, I keep hitting a brick wall
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Hi C.T ,
Can you tell how they are spelling it on the B.D.M.s in N.S.W. please as I can only fine the one there under Doolan Please.
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Hi CT :)
What is Patrick's age and occupation (if any) on the marriage cert? I know it's early but there might be some info there.
There are several Patrick DOOLANs listed in the Colonial Secretary's Index and the Convict records on NSW State Records website. Have you been to that yet?
Prue
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Also, like OzyBob I can't find Patrick's death on the NSW BDMs site - under what name was he registered?
There is a Patrick DOLAN died 1870 Maitland, parents Daniel and Ellen - have you ruled him out?
Prue
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Hi Prue
Death Certificate : The dates are are wrong for a start.
Death : 31 Dec 1870, Branxton, NSW Aged 85 years
Name and Occupation : Patrick Dolan, Farmer
When and where buried : 3 Jan 1870, Catholic burial grounds Branxton, NSW
Parents : Father, Daniel Dolan, farmer, Mother, Ellen Ahern
Where Born : Ardpatrick, Limerick Ireland
How long in the Australasian Colonies, 56 years, it seem to be written over 41 years
Place of Marriage age and to whom : Branxton, on his marriage certificate it was Black Creek, 42 years Margaret Mannix aged 23 years
Informant : Certified by Letter by Margaret Dolan wife of deceased Branxton
As you can notice the death 31 Dec 1870 , Buried 3 Jan 1870
You are right about his parents
On his Headstone Patrick Doolan died 29 Dec 1869, aged 85 years Ardpatrick Limerick Ireland
Two children born under Doolan, Ellen and William, Ellen 1836, William 1837 both only live to 6-8 weeks old, Ellen death registration on BMD under Dowland, and William under Doolan
The rest of the children born under Dooling, Bridget married under Dolan, Timothy died under Dooling
My great granfather Patrick was a Doolan, it was very confusing
The Colonial Secretary Index 1788-1825, the Dooling, Doolan are the Patrick from the ship "Three Bees ", there is Patrick Doolan and brother William that came out 1822 from Limerick but much younger on the ship " Mangles 2 "
Can't prove it, don't think I will
Thanks
C.T
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Hi CT :)
Don't give up just yet! I hope we will be able to find something of Patrick for you.
The facts that I can glean from what you've posted are:
d Dec 1869, 85 yrs = birth 1784 (death cert and headstone)
m 1835 (marriage cert) OR 1827 (from death cert)
imm 1813 (if 56 years before death) OR 1828 (if 41 years before death)
b 1793 (if he was 42 when married in 1835) OR 1784 (if he was 42 and going by death cert marriage date of 1827)
The only dates we are definite on are his death, 1869, and marriage, 1835.
The immigration date is the most uncertain, with a 15 year difference between the two dates suggested by the death cert.
The birth date is uncertain, but less so, with 9 years difference between the two possibilities.
It all hinges on whether his age at death was accurate or not.
let's say he was 42 when he married in 1835:
he would have been born in 1793
he would have died aged 76
There is the 9 year gap again!
As for his immigration, I would think the earlier the date, the more likely it is that he was not a free man when he came out here. Free immigrants did come out early on, but it was more common later, particularly as assistance schemes were introduced.
I don't think I've helped much here, but I was just trying to get all the dates and ages straight in my mind. ::) ???
Prue
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Hi Prue
I have found something thats very interesting, I have been researching for two years now
The two Doolan brothers William born 1792, and Patrick born 1796, that came on the ship "Mangles" in 1822 were forward to Windsor for distribution to a Richard Kelly. In the census 1823,1824,1825 both Patrick and William were convict labourers for Captain Brabyn, " York Lodge "
Patrick Doolan received his Ticket of leave in1827
In the 1828 census Patrick was a labourer for Mosses Rocket (Rochotz) at Cornwallis Windsor, and William under Dooling, was a assigned convict for John Gaggin at Luskintyre, the Maitland area
They both receive their Certificate of Freedom in 1829
From there on I lost Patrick Doolan
On microfiche Banns Marriages William Doolan permission to marry 1832, to a Mary Mahoney
William died 1836. Church of England on the reels William Dowland, Black Creek, 23 April 1836 aged 40 years , ship Mangles, Free
Catholic William Doolan, West Maitland, 21 April 1836 aged 39, Free, Farmer Minster James Watkin. James Watkin married Patrick and Margaret
William was buried at the old St Peters Glebe, Cemetery Maitland
I have just found a interesting thing, found William Dolan headstone at Glebe Cemetery, Maitland, still standing on a site on the internet, It reads; William Dolan, Limerick Ireland died 6 May 1836, Erected by his brother Patrick
There are three others buried with him Eleanor 1837 could this be Patrick daughter Ellen,William 1838, and Patrick, can't believe it, these are the names of the children Patrick and Margaret lost, the dates are wrong but even William Dolan dates are wrong. Really I think they had to much to worry about than dates
My brother lives down that way, get him to check it out
I think even the dates are wrong when they came out on the ship "Mangles"
William 1792 Patrick 1796
William was 40 years when he died in 1836 that makes him born 1796
So Patrick would have been born 1792 thats makes more sense, except for his age of 85 years when he died, there is a 7 years gap
Well I think I have found him, what do you think
Thanks Prue for your help, I do appreciate it,
C.T
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Hi CT
I don't know if you have explored this excellent site about early settlers in your region of interest.
The names Brabyn, Kelly, Dowland etc. all bring up an item or 2 of interest when typed into search.
Good luck.
Sue
http://www.jenwilletts.com/search.htm
Among other things I see info that Father James Watkins was the first Roman Catholic priest at St Joseph's Church.
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Hi Sue
Yes I have explored that site, Patrick Dolan 30 Sep 1846, Black Creek, subscriber for the Irish Funds, would be my great great grandfather, also you will find Mannix and names of interest
Yes Father Watkins was the first Roman Catholic priest at Maitland, Patrick Doolan and Margaret Mannix, marriage was Rev Father James Watkins very first entry in the Marriage Register at Black Creek, (Branxton, NSW). Father Watkins stayed only a short time, Father Dowling was the second priest to take up residence in Maitland. In 1836 Father Watkins left the Maitland area and went to Hobart
Doing my step daughters family tree. Her family goes back to the first five free settlers that came from England. Thomas Rose daughter Mary married William Green their daughter Elizabeth married Richard Kelly, just a bit of trivia, she would have been there when Patrick and William Doolan arrive
I think I have found my missing link
Thanks keeps
C.T
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Does anyone have the baptismal and marriage dates for this family? Patrick and Margaret DOOLAN were my ggg grandparents. Their daughter married Henry WHEELER son of John and Maria Ann(e) Dottin (nee HOGG) WHEELER. I have some details about this family but am having problems with the DOOLANs as being good catholics didn't register their details with govt authorities. Consequently are proving difficult to find esp as I live interstate and can't just pop in for a record search.
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Hi helenmk :)
Welcome to rootschat.
He [Patrick] was married the 5 Nov1835 Black Creek ( Branxton, NSW ) to Margaret Mannix, by Father Watkins, he died 29 Dec 1869, at Branxton, NSW, from Ardpatrick, Ireland, which is on his headstone, his death certificate don't match he was apparently 56 year in the colony, 42 year old when he married and 85 years old when he died, which makes him abt 51 years old when he married, his last child was born 1856
C.T
The marriage with the bride's surname mistranscribed.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
V1835266 123/1835
DOOLAN Patrick
MANNIG MARGARET
LK = Roman Catholic Church at either East Maitland, Maitland, or West Maitland
Pre 1856 you will only find Parish records. Civil registration commenced 1856. A little about it here -
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm
Cheers
Cando
Apologies Robert I missed your post with the same marriage :-[
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The NSW BDM is not my problem with this family. I have a string of relatives that come from this DOOLAN line but have NOT registered with government authorities. I know that they are to be found in local parish registers, but I can't get to them at this stage. My grand father's birth was not registered with the govt. My great grandfather's death is also not registered. There is also quite a number of other missing details/rels. Which may explain the absence of Death Reg etc. Roman Catholics, pre Vatican II it seems, were told that there is only one authority that matters, the Holy Church of Rome. Also there was a degree of resentment having to do the same thing twice (i.e. register) and pay for the privilege. What I can say is that Henry WHEELER m Margaret DOOLAN 21/6/1859, witt: Ellen DOOLAN & John WHEELER. Henry died 22/2/1878 @ Uralla. Margaret's fate unknown at this stage but had young children. There was also a Bridget DOOLAN born around 1848 @ Branxton who seems/may have had a string of children to Thomas BEAHAN - but this pairing is elusive too.
Cheers,
helen
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Hi Helen,
Putting aside the difficulties of registration, it would be helpful , if you are seeking information to let us know what you hold as certified information and what you are seeking to find out.
When you say "there was also a Bridget Doolan", do you mean she was another child of Patrick and Margaret?
Who, in the men you mention, was your Great grandfather ? Wheeler?
What dates of this person's life do you have?
All of this may help others to help you :D as Cando has attempted kindly to do.
Sue
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Mmm the 1859 marriage and 1878 death you mention in detail, are on the NSW bdm.
If Bridget is the dau of Patrick and Margaret, could this be her birth - transcription of a parish record on the NSW bdm. Civil registration did not commence until 1856
V18461107 63/1846
DOOLING Bridget
Father Patrick Mother Margaret
? 2nd marriage for Margaret DOOLAN.
6457/1882
WHEELER Margaret
FAULKNER James
District Tamworth
and death
19611/1913
FAULKNER Margaret
Father Patrick Mother Margaret
District Glen Innes
Of course you would need to purchase certs/transcriptions to ensure this is the correct Margaret.
Births
12363/1882
FAULKNER Elizabeth
Father James Mother Margaret
District Boorowa
20705/1886
FAULKNER Thomas
Father James Mother Margaret
District Glen Innes
Only Margaret is listed on the 1903 Electoral Roll at Furracabad, Divison New England, Subdivision Glen Innes. Occupation Domestic duties.
Death
5060/1900
FAULKNER James
Father Joseph Mother Margaret
District Boorowa
Cando
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Thomas and Bridget had five children, four of whom died as infants.
Deaths
17012/1917
BEAHAN Thomas
Father Timothy Mother Charlotte
District Gilgandra
11396/1926
BEHAN Bridget 78 years Armidale
District Armidale
There are no listings for the BEAHAM's on the 1903 electoral roll.
Cando
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Thanks for the replies. I'm still at an early stage for this family but have found them to be very frustrating until I was told about the tendency for RCs to register with church authorities and forgo govt. It suddenly all made sense. My grandfather was always known to me as John Stephen KEOGH, parents Stephen KEOGH + 1929 (believed to be born in Vic) & Mary Louisa WHEELER (B. 9/12/1876 d. 21/2/1942). There has been no marriage cert found and 5 of her 6 children where reg as WHEELER. My grandfather the alledged first born was born 4/6/1896 @ Narrabri but there is no govt record of his birth. Was he even their son??? The names found on NSW BDM and used for the marriages for the 6 siblings vary between KEOGH & WHEELER. Bridget DOOLAN supposed to be Mary's 1/2 sister but dates don't support this. More likely Bridget is an aunt. Regardless Mary and Bridget were close associates, but how I don't know. I'd like to be more specific but I'm using the local library and all my notes are at home. I thought you might like a prompt reply. Hope to be more organised next time for you.
Cheers,
Helen
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Hi
Margaret's fate unknown at this stage but had young children.
There was also a Bridget DOOLAN born around 1848 @ Branxton who seems/may have had a string of children to Thomas BEAHAN - but this pairing is elusive too.
I have given you some information reply#16 and #17....would appreciate some feedback eg are the records found for your Margaret and Bridget?
I would suggest you read the following link.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyRecords.htm
The churches were not involved with birth registrations post 1856. Are you referring to baptisms? There were many reasons that births were not registered - information on link above.
What year do you believe your grandfather was born in Victoria?
Cando
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Hi All,
Cando
Somewhere in REPLY # 18 Helen mentions her grandfathers birthdate as 4/6/1896 at Narrabri NSW.
This man's death is on NSW bdm
Helen,
Like Cando, I would be glad if you could consider the information given and also my questions regarding certificates in reply # 3.
There may be some real answers for you from the helpers on this board, but it is
"Two Way Street" ;D
I appreciate there can be difficulties inconveying relevant information at the beginning, but consise and factual is the way to go ;D
Sue
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This is what I have (let me know it you need further and I'll see what I can dig up from home):
From NSW Certificates:
John WHEELER
b circa 1802 London, England
d 7/1/1872 @ Singleton, buried Cof E cem Singleton
occ: Groom (1837), horse breaker (1839) farmer (1857, 1872)
arrive Aust: circa 1836
married 13/9/1836 of Carrington @ AACo County of Glouster by Rev William M COWPER, wit Henry BRADSHAW, Carrington & Eliza PAYNE (Possible cousin/aunt)
to:
Maria Ann(e) Dottin HOGG
b circa 1811 Dartmouth, Eng
d 23/8/1857 @ Melville near Lochinvar, buried C of E West Maitland
arrive Aust: circa 1836
issue:
# 1/ William Joseph b 17/9/1857 @ AACo estate in county Gloucester, married Mary Anne DUFFY 18/4/1860, Rev James Hanly(unclear), wit Michael LESTER (X his mark), Sara DUFFY (X her mark)
# 2/ Henry b 4/6/1839 @ AACo estate in county Gloucester, married @ age 19yrs (resident @ Melville) to Margaret DOOLAN aged 17yrs (resident @ Black Creek), St John's Church West Maitland, by Rev John Thomas LYNCH, Dean, wit John WHEELER, Ellen DOOLAN (parents of bride and groom
not listed).
occ. labourer (1876), carrier (1878)
Henry died 22/2/1878 @ Uralla, issue 5 males & 2 females (all living). Buried @ Uralla, no minister attending.
# 3/John b 1840 (NSW BDM)
# 4/ Charles b. 1842, d 1899, m 1861 (NSW BDM)
# 5/Harriet b. 1844 (NSW BDM)
# 6/ Maria b. 1846 (NSW BDM)
# 7/ George b. 1848 (NSW BDM)
# 8/ Louisa b. 1849 (NSW BDM)
From Henry and Margaret's marriage: 5 males & 2 females
# 1/ John b. 1860 (NSW BDM)
#2/ Patrick B. 1861, d. 1928 (NSW BDM)
# 3/ William b. 1866 (NSW BDM)
# 4/ Margaret b. 1869 (NSW BDM)
# 5/ Joseph James b. 1872, d. 1940 (NSW BDM)
# 6 Ernest Albert b. 1874 (NSW BDM)
# 7 Mary Louisa b. 9/12/1876, d. 19/2/1942 (entered as KEOGH and as having married at age 17 at Armidale to Stephen KEOGH - no record on NSW BDM. 5 of 6 children listed on death cert were registered as WHEELER with no mention of a partner or of previous issue having been born. In addition she varies her age between 2 and 4 yrs out alingment of verifiable facts (family trait? see above).
Her partner was buried on 10/6/1929 aged 59yrs. No entry for his death on NSW BDM. I have John Stephen KEOGH's death certificate. Mother's name given as BEAN - which was what I have always thought. But as death certs are always either 2nd or 3rd hand mistakes/guesses come into the picture. Everything I have found fits Mary Louisa WHEELER. From this point we are entering the field of the living so I can't safely proceed any further down that line.
Bridget DOOLAN
b. circa 1848
From NSW BDM had 6 children (that I found) - no partner listed on index:
# 1/ William J b. 1869
# 2/ William Patrick b. 1873
#3/ Reginald B 1876, d 1876
# 4/ Malinda M b. 1878, d 1878
# 5/ Ethel May b 20/6/1879 @ Singleton, no occupation given by mother only age as 31yrs, born @ Branxton.
Ethel May BEAHAN, 24 yrs, laundress of Armidale, parents Thomas BEAHAN, Fettler & Bridget DOOLAN married 19/7/1904 by Thomas Johnstone D.D. Presbyterian Church, Armidale, wit J J LAWLOR & Maude SHERWOOD, to: Richard Marden MOREY, 28 yrs, Labourer of Armidale, parents Richard Marden MOREY & Margaret Francis Jane SHERWOOD
# 6/ Henry Herbert, b 1882
This is what I have so far. I don't know if this will help matters. I'm trying to straighten out my great grandfather and grand father's stories. Greatgrandfather was supposed to be a jumps jockey and Mary Louisa WHEELER/KEOGH is alledged to have injured herself in a fall from a horse and was crippled by the fall (no mention on her death cert - may be it was Stephen KEOGH the jumps jockey who had the fall).
I originally thought that John WHEELER was the convict John WHEELER aka MAHER as there were at first flush times/places that fit, but have now ruled that out as dates/ages don't fit. Maria and John have no mention of needing the Gov's permission to marry. In addition there is a possibility that Maria came out with Rev William M COWPER. as they were at the same parish St Petrox Dartmouth at the same time and appear in NSW in the same yr. He also marries John & Maria, and baptises their children. But this may all be coincidental.
Cheers,
Helen
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Dear All,
Thanks for your valuable info. I have now ordered death cert for Margaret FAULKNER. When it arrives I'll post it's details on this site. Also does anyone have any photos of this family? None of my rels - who descend from John Stephen KEOGH have anything from his side of the family. Just curious!!!!
Cheers, Helen
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Hi Helen
You would need to contact CT, the author of this thread for any possible photos of this family. However CT hasn't logged on to rootschat since Mar 2009.
Neither Sparrett or I are connected to this family....we, along with many others, try to help 'chatters with their requests.
Did you know you can order transcriptions of certificates in NSW...a cheaper and quicker option to purchasing a certified certificate.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToSearch.htm#TranscriptionAgent
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks for the tip. I'll give them a try.
Helen
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Details re Margaret FAULKNER (yes she is Margaret DOOLAN - thanks for putting me on to her)
Died 20/11/1913 @ Macquarie St Glen Innes
Age 72
F. Patrick DOOLAN, Farmer
M. Margaret
Informant. P WHEELER, son, Glen Innes
Buried 21/11/1913 @ Roman Catholic Cemetry, Glen Innes.
Born Branxton NSW
Place of Marriage, age, and to whom
1# Maitland, 17yrs, Henry WHEELER
2# Tamworth, 38yrs, James FAULKNER
Children of marriage
1# John 64yrs
Patrick 52
William H 47
Margaret 43
Joseph 41
Ernest A 39
Mary L 36
2# no issue
There is at least 2yrs between the death of Henry and her remarriage. It is possible that Mary Louisa, who was 14mths when her father died, was sent to live with Bridget DOOLAN's family (aka BEAHAN and most likely corrupted to BEAN as passed down the family story line and given on John Stephen KEOGH's death cert). This might explain the half-sister story.
Thanks everyone for the help,
Helen
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Hi
Starting from the beginning Margaret Doolan daughter of Patrick and Margaret Doolan nee Mannix born 1841, baptised 27 March 1841. She married Henry Wheeler 21 June 1859 at St John's Catholic Church, Maitland, NSW. They had 7 children : John Wheeler born 1860, Patrick, b 1861, William Henry 1866, Margaret Gertrude, b 9 Aug 1869 Margaret had a child out of wedlock have been in touch with that family, Joseph James b 1872 Ernest Albert 1874
Mary Louise, b 9 Dec 1876 Uralla, NSW
Mary married John Henry Smith 7 April 1902 at St Patrick Church, Sydney, James Smith came to NSW from Geelong Vic, James died 1957 at his home Adamstown, Newcastle, NSW. Mary died 10th May 1953 Adamstown Newcastle. Mary died of diabetes after she had both of her legs removed. I have been in touch with that family. I have notice Walter F born to a Mary at Narrabri in 1898 Henry brother William move to Narrabri William had a son Walter
Henry Wheeler died after being ill for 22 days of dysentery at Uralla, NSW on the 22 February 1878 aged 38 years and 8 mths
Margaret married James Thomas Faulkner in Tamworth in 1882, their witnessess were G.A Englert and Lucy Paddington . Margaret was 18 years older than James
They had two children James and Thomas whom both died Margaret and James reared Margaret Gertrude son Martin born Wheeler when under the name Faulkner have his line
Margaret died 20 November 1913 at Glen Innes
I would say you should be looking under Bridget Doolan b 7 July 1846 at Black Creek daughter of Patrick and Margaret Doolan nee Mannix she had five children out of wedlock Mary L b 1871, William Patrick b 1873, both under Dolan which was the original family name back Ireland Reginald b 1876 d 1876, Melinda b 1878 d 1878 Ethel May 1879, Henry Hebert b 1882 all these children were born Patrick Plains (Singleton) Bridget married Thomas Beahan in 1882 at Patrick Plains Ethel May married under Beahan and so did Henry Hebert Bridget died 7 Aug 1926 at Armidale
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Hi
A story I have on Mary Louise Wheeler husband James Henry Smith James Smith came to NSW from Geelong Vic, he meet Mary while carting wool from the Hunter Valley area. His father William was very much against him marrying in the Catholic Church, so he decided to leave Victoria and get a job as a barman in NSW, where on the 7 April 1902 he married Mary Louisa Wheeler and was disowned by his family, never seeing them again from a descendant of James and Mary, wondering how true this is
James and Mary had a son William (Billy) who live at Randwick, Sydney Billy was quite a successful Jockey that lived at Randwick, he later became a Tailer with his own business in Sydney
Regards C.T