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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: acceber on Sunday 29 October 06 11:02 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I saw this article in the Sunday Times today about a programme appearing on channel 4 in the next month exploring the DNA and families of 8 people who consider them to be 100% anglo-saxon
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2426968_2,00.html
Looks like it might be quite good
acceber
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Does sound like it could be an interesting programme.
It does annoy me when people think they are English through and through. What is English?????
Kerry
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Who knows Kerry..apparently the Welsh are more English than the English ???
Steve :)
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What is English?
Somone that was born in England and whose ancestors have lived there for 3 generations?
downside
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Sounds like a must-see programme. thanks for letting us know about it.
Lesley
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I read the piece in the paper, and it struck me that the programme could end up focussing on family skeletons. We all know that our family trees are distinctly iffy because there's supposedly a 10% chance of any child not being the issue of its putative father (that was the finding of a recent study). If you find, as in Thatcher's case, that the DNA points to someone from distant parts, it could really put the cat among the pigeons.
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Cat amongst the pigeons for certain! It will be a skeleton search - what else is judged to make good telly these days?
It was interesting to see the hopes of Julian Clary's family that they weren't german in WDYTYA second series turn to dust as he brought them the news about their german background. While that wouldn't come out of a DNA test, there's all sorts of things that could.
Shame the Sunday Times article reported that Norman Tebbit was 100% european, although I am sure he would cavil at such a broad description as European!
JULIAN
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Great can not wait to see. I wonder if there are any true English as a Saxon came from Saxony in Germany
Jim
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well according to downside (see above) most of us! I still think it is a bit narrow to think of oneself as pure english. Sorry!
Kerry
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Great can not wait to see. I wonder if there are any true English as a Saxon came from Saxony in Germany
Jim
Absolutely. We all tend to forget that we (all of British Isles) have been more of an island race or races in the last 800 years than for the previous 1500 years before that!
well according to downside (see above) most of us! I still think it is a bit narrow to think of oneself as pure english. Sorry!
Kerry
See above!
JULIAN
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I wonder if there are any true English as a Saxon came from Saxony in Germany
Considering the vast majority of those tested in genetic studies have shown to be descended from pre-Saxon Britains, most certainly...
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These Pre saxons must have come from the west side of england as the Vikings murdered most on the east side of England (Britain) Perhaps they hid in Wales????
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I seem to remember that "Welsh" originally meant British - the indigenous people who were pushed westwards by waves of invaders. And the Celts came from mainland Europe.
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I have read some where that they did go to Wales and also Cornwall on getting away from the Vikings the Romans the Normans and the Saxon's Even King Alfred Of Wessex lived in the West country
Jim
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I seem to remember that "Welsh" originally meant British
No. It was the Anglo-Saxon for stranger or slave, which why the Welsh prefer Cymru.
Most modern thinking on the so called Anglo Saxon invasion is that it did not actually happen. Instead there were a few Anglo Saxon chieftans that held high positions in British society.
downside
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Found a good article on this web site The Germanic's called the Britains who went west Wales and Cornwall Welsch to Romanised Britain's
Jim
Moderator comment: Link deleted
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I don't know what "most modern thinking" means. Chapter and verse, please. The number of Anglo-Saxon place names attests to the to the numbers that came here; maybe not as invading armies, but certainly siezing power and controlling large areas of the country. Depends what you mean by invasion.
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Jim, do you realise the origins of that article you've quoted? I doubt you would have posted the link if you did.
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A distinctly dodgy website, to say the least.
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Does anyone know exactly when its starting
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Does anyone know exactly when its starting
The article says to be broadcast next month.
I don't know what "most modern thinking" means.
Up until the 1990's people quoted the Anglo-Saxon chronicle an accurate view of what happened after the Romans left. SInce then there have been doubts about a mass invasion by Germanic tribes. The is no archelogical evidence to support a mass invasion. Even the bodies they dig up in Anglo-Saxon burials are usually British rather than German. A place name does not actually indicate that a town was Anglo-Saxon in orgin. People copy styles of names. Think of how many buildings or roads have the name Mandela in them, but we haven't been invaded by South Africans have we?
Modern thinking suggests that England was Germanic long before the Roman invasion and that Stonehenge may have been constructed by Germans after the find of the Amesbury archer whose DNA revealed he was from Germany.
downside
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These Pre saxons must have come from the west side of england as the Vikings murdered most on the east side of England (Britain) Perhaps they hid in Wales????
I think you will find that the Vikings actually killed very few of the local inhabitants. Instead they settled and intermarried.
As I have six generations with no sign of anyone born outside England I claim to be English.
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Hello
I have to agree with downside that 'modern' thinking suggests that the anglo-saxon invasion was not an 'invasion' as depicted in films books etc. I had a lecture on this very topic last Tuesday and visited an anglo-saxon village on a field trip on Saturday.
Bede wrote that the Saxons killed priests and knocked down buildings and that they over ran Britain, however modern thinking is as downside suggests, change brought about by a few people at the top with different people running local administrations but still providing for the same basic needs. It is clear from the development of settlements and our language that the anglo-saxon tribes did have a large impact and influence on our history but not through 'invasion' as previously suggested.
Im sure the celebs who take part in this programme will no doubt have Viking, Celtic, Jute, Pict and other tribal blood in them which makes us 'English'! :)
acceber
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I've never really been able to figure this nationality stuff out. I have a great grandmother who was born in England but both her parents were Scottish. Does this make her English or Scottish?
Similarly, as 2 of my 16 gggrandparents were Scottish, does this mean that I'm 1/8th Scottish even though I was born in Yorkshire?
???
Jill
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I've never really been able to figure this nationality stuff out. I have a great grandmother who was born in England but both her parents were Scottish. Does this make her English or Scottish
Hi Jill
she is English by birth but a full blooded Scot,
and your GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.Grandparents probably had a cave house on the shores of Lock Ness ;D ;D
Celia
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A friend's mother always used to say, "If a cat's born in a fish shop it doesn't make it fish".
I have not found anyone in my ancestry who was born outside England - I claim English. My daughters and grandchildren however were born in Cornwall. That's another debate!!
Ellen
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It is also a question of whether someone feels English rather than is English.
Cliff Richard was born in India but we think of him as English. Mike Myers (Austin Powers) is Canadian but his father was a Liverpudlian and holds an English passport.
I wonder what all these people that live outside the UK feel? All those people that retire to Spain or migrate to France and Italy. I bet they still say they are English.
downside
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"If a cat's born in a fish shop it doesn't make it fish".
What if it's a catfish? :P
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I don't know what "most modern thinking" means. Chapter and verse, please. The number of Anglo-Saxon place names attests to the to the numbers that came here; maybe not as invading armies, but certainly seizing power and controlling large areas of the country. Depends what you mean by invasion.
Sorry did not realize what this web site stood for just goole'd for ancient Britain and this came up shame because the bit I had read seemed very factual about all the different races that made us
Jim
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Maybe only genetics can prove if anyone is 'native' or 'indigenous',but I think you're as English/Welsh/Irish or as Scottish (etc) as you feel.
I think we should all be allowed free DNA tests to see what we are made up of,its so fascinating!!
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I also read about this new programme and my first thought was "they're looking for skeletons in cupboards" and if those cupboards happended to have been in "No. 10" ....... well it sells newspapers and ups the viewing ratings!
Did anyone see the "Meet the Ancestors" programme when Julian Richards presented the DNA study on how much Viking DNA there is in Britain? Turned out there's not as much as history would have us believe - either history is wrong about Vikings over-running the indiginous population or all those Vikings were firing blanks!!
I think a free DNA test would be like the best present ever...... but what happens to the information gleaned from such a test. I read somewhere this week/last week that Britains DNA data base is busting at the seams with info and those tested are not all convicted criminals. It seems those in power would like us all to be on the database. What power do we, the donor, have over such tests, the information discovered and where that info is stored?
Sorry, I'm a Brummy, I'm sceptical and maybe even just a tad paranoid? ... it's all in the genes!!!
Regards, Jamys
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Monday 13 November Channel 4 at 8.00 pm
100% English
Eight people who believe themselves to be quintessentially English - including
Lord Tebbit, Garry Bushell and Carol Thatcher, undergo DNA testing to reveal their true heritage.
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Now that sounds good ;D I have been reading about the Thatchers but that will remain :-X
Can not wait!!!
RootsChat :)
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Monday 13th November at 8pm
One-off documentary in which art historian Andrew Graham-Dixon presents an exploration of what it means to be English. Eight paticipants, including Lord Tebbit, Garry Bushell and Carol Thatcher undergo tests to see where their heritage truly lies.
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Oh if ever there was a moment when I wish we got English Channel 4 here in Wales...I daresay it'll be shown here on S4C at an ungodly hour...
I have a strong opinion that the English are so less 'English' and far more 'British' than they think!!
How I wish they would do something similar in Wales! I'm sure there'd be a lot of surprises.
RuthieB (pure British) ;)
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Lord Tebbit - now that is an interesting choice for such a programme!!!!!!
Kerry
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Yes, isn't Lord Tebbitt the one who defined a proof of Englishness as being able to name the English Cricket team? If that's the case, I'm Outer Mongolian!
I think they'll find that he's 50% English and 50% Smug B-----!.
Jill
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Oh please oh please oh please let them find he was from ...
Actually, I'm not sure if anyone deserves to have him as a descendent. Talk about a black sheep!
meles
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That's a programme I'd Love to see! Could someone pleases let me know if/when it's on CD?
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In fairness to Lord Tebbit (now there's a phrase I never thought I'd write) he didn't say you had to NAME the England cricket team, just support it. He was getting at those British-born descendants of immigrants who back the teams of their forefathers rather than their new country.
As a Welshman, I find it impossible to cheer for a team that purports to represent the whole of Britain but still, after all these years, calls itself England. So I guess I fail his test.
Gareth
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I am Engish all down one side, the paternal males all being English b&b.
However their wives down the ages have Irish,Scottish,German, and French ancestry.
My maternal side would be English, Irish, French, and Danish
I think we are all probably 'cocktails' of DNA
Tom
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Well I grew up assuming I was English because I never knew any different.
Now I know I have a welsh person in my tree and my 4 x great grandfather and wife came from Ireland.
But then I must be English but sadly I support our Cricket team ;D ;D ;D ;D So much more refined than football!!!!!
Kerry
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It sounds like a fascinating idea for a programme - seems strange they only plan a one-off.
Does anyone know how sensitive these DNA tests are - I mean do they just say you're 100% European, or can they detect bits of Irish, Welsh, Scottish, German etc? I was thinking it would be a wonderful way of testing some family myths - like the one my aunt insists on, that one of her great-grandfathers married a Spanish bride. All I can find are brides with English names. Would a DNA test detect that bit of Spanish if it existed?
I predict there'll be a demand for a series on this topic!
Lesley
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LOL here!Yet no one has mentioned the Southern influence,Morrocan,Greek,Phoenician,very well known in the Sthn Countie,s in Ireland,and other place,s.
English is just an accident of birth,British,a well known gift from the Government for service,s rendered.
A team that play,s cricket under English 'colour,s' is a collection of cricketer,s,Nothing more or less,sadly the latter in recent time,s.
Goggy. ;) ;D
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I've seen a trailer for this programme and , quite frankly, it looks as though it might be a load of old doodah! >:(
So, I wouldn't expect too much - but I'll watch anyway!
Jill
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In fairness to Lord Tebbit (now there's a phrase I never thought I'd write) he didn't say you had to NAME the England cricket team, just support it. He was getting at those British-born descendants of immigrants who back the teams of their forefathers rather than their new country.
As a Welshman, I find it impossible to cheer for a team that purports to represent the whole of Britain but still, after all these years, calls itself England. So I guess I fail his test.
Gareth
Is not the English and Wales cricket board and welsh player's do play for the team!!!
Jim
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It is indeed the England and Wales Cricket Board - but it's always abbreviated as ECB. And yes, Welshmen (and Scotsmen) do play for it - so why isn't it called Britain?
Gareth
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Yes I Agree it should be called Britan. Perhaps we could amagamate the football teams as well Great Britan Football Team then we can get rid of that useless manager and bring in Martin O'Neill or Alec ferguson. better still a anglo French Football Team managed by Wenger with Henry up front perhaps with Giggs alongside what a team you could make
Jim
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The point of the original post was that these people considered themselve,s 100% Anglo/Saxon.A mixed blood group to start with.
Ignoringn all previous to-ing and fro-ing of race,s on the Continent.A right shower of Johnny come lately's!
Regarding the Great Britain Team,let,s not forget that a British Passport isn't exactly a 100% guarantee of racial purity!!
Now,as we are' multi cultural' in our team,don't forget the Wooden Horse.There are more way,s of scoring a win than hard yakka!!
Goggy. ;) ;D
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It's hard to see how, if you've read your history properly, you can ever think you are 'English'. What exactly is that? Anglo-Saxon with a bit of Briton and Romano-British and Norman and Viking thrown in? Not to mention all the other possible computations.
Personally, I'd love to see how Welsh the Welsh are. I suspect, not as much as they think they are.
RuthieB (pure British and proud of it - unlesss someone tells me there's something else in there, in which case I'll be proud of that too!!)
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I shall certainly watch. But as I understand it, these DNA tests vary in how useful they are and are all based on a statistical probabilities of who you might be related to. The "paternity test" type use of DNA is done differently.
Some of the tests only relate back to the distant past. Last year I read that nearly all North American ones came up with a % native american genetic makeup. Allegedly because folk quite like to hear that.
The science is changing all the time, with breakthroughs nearly every month.
There is a techie but good article here on GENUKI:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/bigmisc/DNA.html
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The term "English" derives from the Angles - before their time we were Britons: those war-like people painted in wode who lined the White Cliffs of Dover to repel the Roman invaders!
Here in Kent there is a fairly large influence from the Jutes that is probably missing elsewhere.
I never call myself European, seldom British, sometimes English - above all I'm a Man of Kent and fiercely proud of it! I have found very little "foreign" (north/west of the Medway) blood in my family going back over 400 years, and absolutely none from outside of England!
My family name derives from a local manor which existed in the 7th century.
Regards, Bill
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Welsh people are properly more English due to the hoards of people that escaped the attackers and conquerers in england and went west to wales. Although I am English I regard my self as British and proud of it Rule Britannia
Jim
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As smeghead says the people of Wales "escaped the attackers and conquerors in England and went west", how does that make them "more English"?
Gareth
(one-eighth English, one 32nd Scots, the rest Welsh)
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Welsh people are properly more English due to the hoards of people that escaped the attackers and conquerers in england and went west to wales.
Jim
Crickey!! Don't say that this side of Offa's Dyke!! The English came after the Britons who moved west to escape those dastardly Angles - didn't they?
RuthieB (in a very pro-Welsh mood today after having sung 'Hen wlad fy nhadau' very rousingly at the Remembrance Sunday service in Lampeter)
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Hello
Just a reminder, the programme is:
TOMORROW (Mon), CHANNEL 4, 8-9pm
acceber
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Welsh people are properly more English due to the hoards of people that escaped the attackers and conquerers in england and went west to wales.
Jim
Crickey!! Don't say that this side of Offa's Dyke!! The English came after the Britons who moved west to escape those dastardly Angles - didn't they?
RuthieB (in a very pro-Welsh mood today after having sung 'Hen wlad fy nhadau' very rousingly at the Remembrance Sunday service in Lampeter)
Oh dear, I was born 1/4 mile to the East of Offa's Dyke although it was in Wales at the time!
And I can sing Hen wlad fy nhadau, word perfect.
What am I - an ancient Briton ??? ??? ???
Gadget
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I thought this programme may be of interest.
Channel 4 8 o'clock 100% English.
8 people born in England, all are convinced that they are 100% English agree to admit their DNA for tests with some surprising results.
Patrish.
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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Some of the English ended up in Anglesea where there was a battle some fled to Ireland
Jim
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Some of the English ended up in Anglesea where there was a battle some fled to Ireland
Jim
What battle was this, Jim? I know of the famous one between the Celts and the Romans and the later one repelling an invasion of Vikings (Anglesey is a Viking name) from Dublin.
When you refer to English, do you actually mean English - or Britons fleeing west to avoid the invading Angles and Saxons, the people who later became the English. If not, I'm totally baffled.
Gareth
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sorry may have got the battle bit wrong but Anglesea was something to do with the english
will check source on battle in Anglesea
Jim
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So Ian Wright is English and a Credit to it
Jim
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re battle in Anglesea with the Romans
Around 60 A.D., Paulinus, who served Emperor Nero had been successful in crushing tribes of Celts through Wales. When he received orders to break the back of the Druids and therefore the Celts; he headed for the stronghold, Ynys Mon.
There on the shore of the Penmon Peninsula he encountered a powerful army of Celts and Druids. Here is an account from Tacitus Annals written at the time of the battle; "On the beach stood the adverse array, a serried mass of arms and men with women flitting between the ranks. In the style of Furies, in robes of deathly black and with dishevelled hair, they brandished their torches; while a circle of Druids, lifting their hands to heaven and showering imprecations, struck the troops with such an awe at the extraordinary spectacle that, as though their limbs were paralyzed, they exposed their bodies to wounds without an attempt at movement." The Romans were frightened as you can imagine but forged on as was their style and they "cut down all who met them and enveloped the enemy in his own flames." It did not stop there; the sacred groves on Ynys Mon were cut down and many Celts on the island were tortured and killed. The Romans succeeded in destroying the Druids and eventually the Celts.
Jim
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Hi
Well that was a really interesting programme, good to see some quite xenophobic people who were convinced they were 100% english proved wrong. But the DNA testing was really interesting, one of my housemates who has had previously no interest in genealogy said she wanted to do a DNA test and trace her family! (I will of course convince her to join rootschat)
I would quite like to have my DNA tested but I already know I am not 100% english in the sense that my ancestors were born in england going back 1000 years. (I'm 5/8 english = 2/8 or 1/4 Lithuanian and 1/8 Irish)
Still a good programme
acceber
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I just watched the programme. I thought it could have been better edited but I found it thought provoking and funny. No-one could really define English could they?
Personally I think if you are very posh you are quite likely to be part French as the Normans took over a lot of land. I have not found any non-English ancestors but I am not prejudiced I married a half scot!!!
I did have blonde hair and have blue eyes. None of the women looked like an english rose did they?
I thought the presenter was quite brave to tell that battle of Hastings lady she was probably descended from gypsies. I wonder if DNA tests will ever be cheap enough for ordinary people?
Anne
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Oh dear, I was born 1/4 mile to the East of Offa's Dyke although it was in Wales at the time!
And I can sing Hen wlad fy nhadau, word perfect.
What am I - an ancient Briton ??? ??? ???
Gadget
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Oh dear, I was born 1/4 mile to the East of Offa's Dyke although it was in Wales at the time!
And I can sing Hen wlad fy nhadau, word perfect.
What am I - an ancient Briton ??? ??? ???
Gadget
(Oops, pressed post too soon!! :-[)
Obviously, if you can sing 'hen wlad fy nhadau' or anything else in the language of Heaven, you've no worries about the Day of Judgement!! ;D
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Hi
Well that was a really interesting programme, good to see some quite xenophobic people who were convinced they were 100% english proved wrong.
acceber
That was fun, but the programme implied, without ever stating it, that nobody is 100 % English (or 100 % anything else, presumably). It would have been more informative if we'd been told what the breakdown is for the average person. Presumably the Far Eastern and South Asian elements arrived in Western Europe with the Huns or earlier, so it doesn't really prove anything one way or the other about how English (as in the last 500 years or so) people might be. Would the results have been significantly different if they'd been testing Scots, Welsh or Irish (or Norwegians, Dutch, etc, etc)?
Gareth
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I found that very interesting, especially the lady who threatened to sue them and dismissed their findings as in accurate as she did not like what she heard, she must have been paid or volunteered for it.. :o :o
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I dont usually find that seeing other peoples discomfort in any way makes enjoyable viewing for me, but boy oh boy, it did last night in this programme. The look of shock on some of their faces was just priceless and the fact that they were so upset by it I found quite worrying.
I would love to find that I had some exotic DNA. Anything to get out of Bedfordshire for a few generations! ::) I did think the lady in the head scarf was a `game old bird` though. I thought she was going to have 40 fits when they told her she may be descended from the `Mongol Hoards`, but the mention of Genghis Khan and she was a happy bunny. Good for her.
Linda.
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Linda
I was plesantly surprised by her reaction, I thought she was going to be stereotypical but she wasn't! Good on her.
I thought the guy at the end who did the act with the balloons was the best, it really did leave him speechless!!!
Kerry
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Oh yes kerry, it was delicious to watch the look on his face, and he just couldnt speak could he! Strange that it makes such a difference to how some people perceive themselves. I cant get my head round that at all!
Linda.
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I don' understand it at all either, it's obvious people in England are not pure English. What is pure English anyway, when you look at the history of all the people who have come here, Saxons, Romans, Celts, Normans etc etc etc
I am sure it is the same the world over!
Kerry
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Didn't you think it interesting that it didn't make them feel less English it just made them move the goalposts about what they thought English was. I loved it!
The lady in the headscarf was marvellous and I thought Carol Thatcher's light-hearted side-swipe at her brother getting 'rather famously lost' was hilarious.
My 14 year old son was watching with me and it really got us talking about what we considered 'being English' to mean.
I agree that some kind of definition of an average English DNA would have been useful.
Susan
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I watched the Channel 4 programme with healthy scepticism. First I should say that being English means to feel English. That may mean different things to different people but if you have a huge imperative to visit the land of your fathers very regularly that defines your "real" nationality. So it is fine by me for Ian Wright to say he is English - he feels English, he is patriotic, he doesn't affect a West Indian accent or patois. The colour of his skin is immaterial.
The programme was designed to deflate people's dignity. There may have bewen 20 subjects but only the 8 who could suffer some public humiliation were shown - that's journalism.
The science used is false science as it uses labels of great vagueness and claims results that require "inetrpretation". Scientific method demands that a test can be repeated by others with identical outcome :P On the one hand we have geneticists [who may prove to be the new alchemists] claiming we are all descended fom a woman born in East Africa 150,000 years ago and then we have this expert revealing that only one of the subjects had sub-saharan blood. Another was 7% native American - the chances of that in a person whose ancestors have lived here for 5 generations or more is very low indeed. That percentage is not even reflected in the population of the USA!
Then the Ukraine bit where those of "SE European"blood had their supposed origins. The Ukraine was extensively settled some thousands of years ago by Celts - the same bloodstock as the Welsh and Bretons so I suppose the Welsh must have oodles of this SE European blood in them. The globe he carried around must have been inaccurate if the Ukraine is placed as in SE Europe by the way. ???
The people of Chechnya claim they are of original Saxon origin - those of Rumania have a great deal of Roman Italian blood whilst their neighbours in Hungary are of a completely different stock. Many people in the old Jugoslavia whilst being largely of Slavonic origin have Turkish or Kurdish bloodlines as well.
None of those matters affect their present identity as populations were on the move for 10000 years before our recent history.
Last year we were mostly supposed to have 13% Tartar bloodlines from a 13th century Mongol warrior.
The year before a half of the people of the North were definitely carrying Viking blood as were many around the Dublin area [probably true as there are many freckled red-haired people there].
On balance the programme was about as silly as the daily horoscope.
The morning post just came and I did not get a surprise despite my stars. :'(
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When you think of all the pre history migrations, all the invasions, just in Europe
The programme is just what I expected it to be, a bit of 'pop' science. And did they pick people who were predictably right wing?
Anyhow
All the tribes...........................
Greeks and Romans in Central and Southern Europe, Germanics to the North
Slavs moving into Poland and Russia. Celts through Germany to France, Northern Spain and Britain.
Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Goths, Vandals,Helvetii,, Teutones, Cimbri, Franks, Burgundians, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Angles, Saxons, Magyars etc.
Britain has its Celts, Angles, Saxons, Romans, Vikings, Normans.
Then we have the gradual mix, the cocktail, that we English are today. DNA wise I think that a lot would be a mixture, just imagine, you have 1024 potential 8x great grandparents, somewhere there will be a bit of spice in the sauce.
To be English is to feel English and know your culture is English.
Tom
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I think you are right Tom, I believe it is more about culture than race!
Kerry
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The science used is false science as it uses labels of great vagueness and claims results that require "inetrpretation". Scientific method demands that a test can be repeated by others with identical outcome
The morning post just came and I did not get a surprise despite my stars.
I think you are being grossly unfair Hack.
The tests are scientific in that if you repeat the extraction and testing of DNA from the same person exactly the same results will be achieved.
It is very rare in science for results not to need interpretation. I agree the interpretation presented on the programme bordered on the fictional but that was necessary to produce a programme. I personally would have liked them to go deeper into the DNA but
that would have made very boring television.
The next step beyond interpretation is to do further tests which confirm it. That would have been interesting but expensive and not good television.
David
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I think the whole point of the programme was to challenge peoples view of what 'English' is. I think it did that, with some predictable and some surprising results.
As I said earlier I think it was particularly interesting that (with a few exceptions) their definition of what 'English' is appeared to change depending on what their own results showed.
Whatever the actual science behind it I thought it was an interesting experiment.
Susan
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As someone said earlier, I'd like to see some averages and some stereotypical examples - ie. pale skin freckly ginger-hair, blue-eyes/brown eyes, brown hair olive skin etc. etc. - the stereotypical Celt, Nordic, Mediterranean - would they come up as predominantly South-Western, Northern Europe etc. or would they be a DNA cocktail? Would Ian Wright be 100% sub-saharan African for example?
A bit more explanation, serious science in the programme would have been interesting.
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David - it is hardly being grossly unfair to point out that it is not necessary to fudge the results of scientific tests before airing them to the public. That makes the assumption that the public is too stupid to understand difficult concepts, a sort of New Labour methodology. People who do not wish to be informed can watch alternative programmes such as "reality TV" or My Stepmother is an Alien or Who Wants to be a Millionaire. For me Bill Oddie is more reality TV than a half-naked tattoed lesbian being foul-mouthed. Those who sat down to watch the Channel 4 programme expected some "shocking" revelations as it would be obvious that only those which showed somesuch would be aired! However, that was enough icing for the cake. The pseudoscientific interpretations "Your euro-DNA is unusual" were just so much chocolate and strawberry sprinkle - they did not improve the cake.
There is far too much populist science about, much of it fated to be discredited in due course.
I consider myself English. I look very English - fair skin, strawberry blonde hair [or it was], blue eyes, high cheekbones. Yet within the past 200 years I have Morgan, Meredith, Jenkins and Davies in my ancestry plus a man who might just have been from Cork. But I don't feel Welsh or Irish and neither am I ashamed of that ancestry. From the Roman occupation's legions I probably have some Roman, some Greek, some Gallic and some Syrian DNA as well. That does not make me feel Syrian or Italian.
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There probably are people out there that are 100% English. However, it seems that if you are, then you are classified as being boring, like Norman Tebbit for instance.
If Europeans are all descended from Africans that migrated north after the ice-age retreated then why doesn't that show up in the DNA? I guess we still do not have all the answers.
Are we descended from aliens? Watch Horizon tonight at 9pm on BBC2 as it looks into something called panspermia to find out.
downside
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Damn missed it ::)
only caught the very end...
hope it repeats..
(I wanna be tested) ;D
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I wholeheartedly agree with Hackstaple. What a silly little programme it was, contributing nothing other than to show up some rather silly people for what they were. All that oompapapah background music drove me mad!
There's probably a serious programme to be made on the subject, but I don't think I'll make a point of watching it. It's the individuals in my family tree who interest me not whether they came from some vaguely defined area of the globe 10, 000 years ago!
Sorry, I thought it was a load of cr--!! :-X
Jill
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Most of my recent ancestors were born in England, but I have some Irish branches and possible Welsh as well. I've worked it out that (going by the grandparent=25%, great grandparent=12.5% etc scale) that I am 17.7% Irish, possible 3% Welsh and the rest English (at the moment, anyway).
Stephen :)
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What a good job we dont all think alike. ;)
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I loved the program better than the other dross on the other sides it at least made me laugh. lets hope they make some more
Jim
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I agree Patrish, that is what makes the world go round ;D
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I will second and third that Jim. :) :) :)
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I found the program very entertaining, funny, embarrassing and, well, a little sad really. In my opinion, for what it's worth, anybody who decides to come to this country to make a new life (as long as they respect our laws, culture etc) has just as much right to call themselves English as I do.
Jayson
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How are you Jayson
I have just watched this program didnt really understand it ??? :-\
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Just caught up with it on video.
Oh dear - one of those programmes where I shout at the telly because some of the people enraged me so much. The bigots were vile.
But overall it was fascinating and good to know (in my opinion) that the "English" (whoever they are) are a mixed people.
Hooray for diversity and tolerance.
meles
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Hooray for diversity and tolerance.
meles
I'll second that Meles
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Also seconded. Lets not have any narrow nationalism here. We're all a mixed bunch and should be proud of it and each little bit and the bits we don't know about :)
Lets hear it for all our ancestors.
Gadget
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And I third the hoorah for diversity and tolerance. That is what makes people interesting in my view!!!
Kerry
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I am going to be very un-diverse and fourth the motion :)
JULIAN
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Lets not have any narrow nationalism here.
Indeed. Nationalism can do take a running jump off a very short pier over shark-infested waters. We're one species, and the only differences between one group of people and another are those that we create in our own minds. If everyone in the world stoped thinking that the other person is somehow "different" and learnt to get along, there would be no need for heaven...we'd already be there!
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There is no difference between us as we are all human, but culture and religion make us all very different
Jim
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Just out of interest, has anybody here on Rootschat had a DNA test? I believe they are VERY price-y & the price reflects the accuracy. I'd be fascinated to discover that I was in possession of exotic blood.
Jayson