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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Lydart on Sunday 12 November 06 16:40 GMT (UK)
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We had our yearly service round the village war memorial today, in Penallt, near Monmouth. Since last year we have managed to find out the Christian names of all those on the commemorative plaque in the church, so that we could read them out at the service ... except for Private E. Cope, who died WW1., and we presume lived in the village as he is named on the plaque.
It would be so good to locate his Christian name ready for next years remembrance service !
What I have done so far is to check the 1901 and 1891 censuses to see if I can find a Cope family living in or near to Penallt ... nothing. I then checked the CWGC lists, and found several Cope's, none of whom fit as far as I can tell ... except for possibly about three of the E. Cope's listed who have no family details, so its difficult to know if one of these is 'our' man.
Can anyone suggest a next step please ? We have 364 days left in which to locate him !
Thanks ... Lydart
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hiya lyd,have you tried the american armed forces,some of our american pals on the great war forum can check for you,there were quite a few brits who enlisted in the US forces while living in the states,mack
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Thanks for the quick reply Mack ... how do I get in touch with them ? Web-site ? Email to ..... ? Snail mail somewhere ??
I forgot to say that two of us in the village are also writing Volume 2 of our local history ... and it would be good to be able to include some info on all our war dead.
In anticipation ...
Lydart
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Thanks for the quick reply Mack ... how do I get in touch with them ? Web-site ? Email to ..... ? Snail mail somewhere ??
I forgot to say that two of us in the village are also writing Volume 2 of our local history ... and it would be good to be able to include some info on all our war dead.
In anticipation ...
Lydart
if i can help with the war dead,let me know what you need,always glad to help if i can,mack
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Thanks for your offer ... how can I get in contact with
our american pals on the great war forum
Or do you have time to find anything out for us ??
Keep in touch ! Lydart
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Mack ... Wendi has told me how to join the war forum, so I have ! Thanks for your idea ... I'll see if I find out anything via that route.
Lydart
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sorry lyd,i missed your reply,i have checked all the E.COPES on the CWGC and i cant find any that are connected to your village,some of the stumbling blocks that we come across during research are soldiers who were discharged through wound/sickness,most of these dont appear on the CWGC,you may be looking at a soldier who died after discharge,many appear on memorials,also,theres the possibility that hes not called E.COPE,a lot of men used their middle names or went by another christian name,mack
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bit of info on 2/Lt davis,he was formerly in the 1/4th gloucester regt from sept 1914 till jan 1917,he was given a commission 26th april 1917 and transferred to the 1/5th batt,aged 25,son of henry+fanny davies,bridge cottage,redbrook.
pte e,j morgan is buried in his families grave in your churchyard also buried in the churchyard are ptes a,h england and c j vaughan,mack
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Hi Lydart
Was the unveiling of the plaque recorded in the Parish Magazine...... ??? just thought there maybe a titbit of info there
Wendi :)
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Thanks Mack.
I wonder if it is possible to check his details from his call up paper-work ? Is there something like what they have in Canadian records for the British Expeditionary Force ... 'attestation' papers, (searchable online) ? I've found out a lot about a Canadian cousin who was killed on the Somme via that route, right down to scar on left arm and colour of his eyes !!
Lydart
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We must have clicked the 'send' button simultaneously !
The Parish Mag route is a good idea ... if I can locate them somewhere ... I'll try our local museum first.
Yes, we knew about the others Mack lists, buried in our churchyard. You obviously have been busy on our behalf !
But I'd like your opinion on 'attestation' papers, or whatever they might be called here ... we'd get his Christian names from them.
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Hi Lydart
Was the unveiling of the plaque recorded in the Parish Magazine...... ??? just thought there maybe a titbit of info there
Wendi :)
you clever girl,why didnt i think of that ;D mack
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Mack, I've just spent a while on the laptop looking through the CWGC lists of 'Cope, Pte' ... there are something like 130 Pte Cope's ! Its so sad to see that the ones with 'age unknown' also don't have any details of parents either.
Anyway, I've checked every Cope, whatever the initail, and can't link any to 'our' Pte Cope, so any info you can give me about the paper-work they will have signed before joining up would be very useful !
Here's hoping we can find him !
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you clever girl,why didnt i think of that ;D mack
:o Fanx, praise indeed ;D
Here's hoping we can find him !
We've still got 362 days left :D
Wendi
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I spent 3 hours on Saturday at the National Archives going through the WWI soldiers with Cope as a surname. The staff were as ever so helpful and made lots of helpful suggestions. I have now narrowed him down to about 6. I am returning there in February to finalise the search. To date he is the only name on the Penalt WWI plaque that I have not firmly identified. Many of the WWI papers suffered WWII bomb damage and are burnt so they are not always readable, however one Cope record was very hard to read and I think it has the word Monmouthshire in the address line!!
The only other suggestion was that it was not uncommon to name the plaque with the familiar first name so E Cope might have been say John Edward Cope but always went under the name of Edward!
I learned that the first World War "Death Pennies" were often named with the familiar first name not the actual, particularly if they had signed up as Edward Cope and not "John Edward".
I was able to access the records of all the other WWI soldiers named on the plaque - so hopefully Cope will be identified soon!!
Peter
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My goodness Peter, MANY thanks for that ! I have to confess, having had a busy Christmas season and then flu after, I had totally forgotten about Pts E Cope. I had searched on the Commonwealth War Graves lists, but have to admit, there were so many Cope's, that I gave up. DO please keep me informed if you have any luck with finding him; do you live in S. Wales, such that you have an interest in our war memorial ?
And a belated welcome to Roots Chat ... you'll find there is always someone who knows something about whatever you want to know ! Even if my impression is that you have to be slightly quirky to really have fun on this site ! Dont forget to put some more details on your personal profile details ... click that little face symbol ... then we know who we are talking to, your gender, and roughly where you are ! I made the serious mistake more than once of assuming I was talking to a man when it was a woman, and also that the avatar was actually the person I was replying to !!
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Actually I have live in Trellech for 26 years and am collating the War Dead for WWI and WWII for both Trellech and Penallt.(in between doing the War Dead for my old school!! and a host of other interests).
I will try and fix the profile too!
Peter
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Hi Peter and a Warm Welcome to Rootschat :D
Wonderful news! I look forward to your return visit in Feb. It's nice to know the staff were so helpful.
299 days left ;)
Wendi :)
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i still cant find anything on e.cope.
2/Lt richard pearce-brown was 34 when he was killed on the somme in july 1916,he was serving in D.company 12th durham light infantry,during the evening of 16th july,his battalion advanced and took over trenches ready for an attack the next day,on the germans at pozieres,his company like the rest of the battalion was cut to pieces by machine gun fire while trying to cross the enemy wire,mack
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Hi Lydart......just need to check, he is definately a Private isn't he? No grey areas ???
Wendi :)
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Yes, definitely Pte. E Cope ... see attached picture of memorial which is in the church !
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:D Thank you it's not that I doubted it, I just wanted to make absolutely sure, thanks..
Wendi :)
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Thanks also to Manmack for that ... I forsee a piece in the parish magazine coming up, or at least in the new village history book that two of us are working on. I'm very grateful for what you have all found so far ...
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Talking of Parish Magazines did you ever find one from around the period that the memorial was erected?
Wendi :)
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No I didn't ... but having been extremely busy over the Advent/Christmas season, and then with flu ... I've now got time to go to the museum and the newspaper archives, to see what I can find out ... will do, and report back.
Thanks for reminding me !
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i got my mates to scour SDGW,theres no e.cope listed from penallt,they even checked to see how many soldiers were listed,who came from your village,there was only one,ive searched everywhere but theres nothing,just a thought,is he listed on your village memorial.you could also try the absent voters lists,if he was 21 or over and died in late 1918 he should be listed,mack
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This is what I now have on E. Cope:
The war memorial was made by T Ballinger of Dingestow in 1920-21. It was unveiled on the 21st March 1921 in a ceremony organised by the Rev Heaume who asked his old friend the Mackintosh of Mackintosh, (The Highland Chieftain), to do the ceremony.
I have failed to find this ceremony reported in any of the local papers in the Monmouth Museum. I had hoped that this would be the case and that it might give the full name of every deceased soldier.
The only other bright light at the end of the tunnel is that according to the register of voters for 1915 there was a George Cope living at Fernview, Whitebrook (next to Penallt). I am presuming that he might have been the father.
If E. Cope had a first name beginning with E, then he must be one of :
Edward L Cope, Enos Cope, Ernest Arthur George Cope, all died 1917 or perhaps Edwin Cope died 1918.
I am wondering quite what to do next?
I will keep chipping away!!
Peter
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Could your E. Cope have been born in Staffordshire?There were about 2400 with that name in the 1901 Census.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Thanks to both of you for info and other ideas.
I would think that Pts Cope was local to this area, but where he was born, I have no idea ! If only we had a definite name, we could search the censuses ...
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I am back up at the NA a week Sat and have a few other ideas to explore on the census an military areas. On the plus side I have dug deeply and found out a lot on Penallt that would otherwise never have come my way!
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Well there are only 7 days left to find the name for Private E Cope. I have talked to numerous Copes in the town but no-one admits to a connection.
I wonder if we shall ever know?
Interestingly enough my search for George Cope of Whitebrook has been very fruitless, I wonder if he is a relative to E Cope? .
He was on the voters list for 1915. I wonder if the 1911 census might one day help?
Unless a miracle happens we will be spending another year without the full name.
Thanks everybody!!
Peter
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Only four and a bit years to wait, Peter !
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Well done for spotting this one Peter
I was only wondering today how far Lydart had got with it., I know what a busy gal she is ;) perhaps we should make him a Rootschat's Challenge "for next year"
Lydart.........we should not allow him to drop from our forum ;D
Wendi :)
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If you look in the Commonwealth War Graves lists, there are about a dozen Pts E Cope's ... and checking them all on the 1901 census doesn't add anything !
He's a mystery !
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I have also checked the Commonwealth War Graves as he might have been form there with no great luck, although I have one E Cope from Canada who had a mother from Birmingham.
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Desperate times ... call for desparate measures ! ::)
There is a man called R Cope on the Monmouthshire County Council ..... maybe an email or phone call explaining your dilema .... might bring forth some answers !!
I checked these .... nothing there ! I also checked Canadian and Australian databases and went through them one by one .... checked WW1 pensions in case he died after the war ... nothing !
The only things I can think of are ......
1. His name has been spelt wrong
2. The Village were given a list and although they didn't recognise the name .... put it on out of respect
3. He is the relation of a person who lived in Penaullt at the time .... who's name was NOT Cope !
Penalt Baptisms 1813 - 1900.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monfamilies/Penalt%20Baptisms%201813-1900.htm
Penalt Marriages 1837 - 1900 Male index
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monfamilies/Penalt+Marr+Male+1837+-+1900.htm
Marriages 1837 - 1930
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monfamilies/penalltmarr1837-1930.htm
I bet you've looked at every single grave stone here - haven't you ??
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There is a man called R Cope on the Monmouthshire County Council ..... maybe an email or phone call explaining your dilema .... might bring forth some answers !!
Like it ;D
There is only one "E" Cope of suitable age on the Monmouthshire Census and they are in Ebbw Vale and appear to originally come from Somerset ???
RG13/4933 Folio 26 Page 4
Edward Cope 32 a Railway Engine Fireman
Emily Harriet Cope 28
Edward James Cope Ancestry have transcribed his age as 28 months, but it looks more like 27.8M to me !!!
Wm Frank Cope 7 months
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Thats my picture of the church !
Did it come from Geograph ??
I'm famous at last !
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Lydart .... it was late last night - when I found a page of lovely out of the way churches ! :)
I should have added the url .... but I got so excited that the photograph stayed on the page - after doing it all by myself .... that I forgot to do it ! ::) ...... I've been looking this morning and I can't find it ! .... sorry I didn't acknowledge you ....... if you know it off hand let me know and I'll add it under the photo !!
Annie :) :)
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Just to let you all know that in desperation I have sent off for 4 death certificates for the Pvte E.Copes from WWI deaths.
I hope that one of these gives us a lead. Next I come to the WWII list at Penallt and we have a Sgt Noel Phillips listed on the memorial. Now I have failed to find any casualty with the name and rank of the above who might even fit the bill.
Any ideas welcome. I have tried CWGC and the deaths in WWII but nothing fits.
Any help appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peter
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3 things come to mind Peter ! though knowing how thorough you have been .... you've probably been there ... done that !! :)
1. Maybe E Copes was a woman ..... maybe she was a WW1 nurse
2. Maybe E Copes didn't die .... maybe he was included because he served .... AVL after 1918 may hold a clue
3. Maybe E Copes was a POW
Annie
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Thanks for that Peter ... I hadnt realised there was another mystery on our war memorial !
Better get to work on it before next November ... when the weather gets a bit better !
Here's the church plaque ...
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Here is the good news..I know exactly where the names of the dead of WWI from Penallt can be found. The bad news is that they were all placed in a bottle along with the names of the memorial committe and placed UNDER the War Memorial Cross at the centre of the viilage!! (This actually was not uncommon!!)
No joking .................................so does anyone have any ideas of what to do next? JCB??Shovel and pick?!!
Also Private E Cope was actually Private E.T. Cope accordoing to the report of the unveiling of the War Memorial in the Beacon dated March 1920.
One step nearer!!
Any further ideas are welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peter
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Actually the date was 1921 not 1920!!
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Right ... I'll order the JCB soon and get the war memorial dug up !
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The Power ;D
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Well Peter ... I think I've found you an extra one !! ::) ( like you don't have enough problems !! :P)
MILES, NEHEMIAH
Rank - Private
Regiment/Service - The Buffs (East Kent Regiment)
Unit Text - 8th Bn.
Age - 31
Date of Death - 13/03/1916
Service No - G/3368
Additional information - Son of Nehemiah and Tresure Miles, of Penalt, Mon. Born Penalt.
Casualty Type - Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference - V. C. 8.
Cemetery - LIJSSENTHOEK MILITARY CEMETERY
And then I found this Cole - the only one I could find ..... in Monmouthshire !!
COLE, JOHN JAMES
Rank - Petty Officer
Regiment/Service - Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text - Drake Bn. R.N. Div.
Age - 27
Date of Death - 25/05/1917
Service No - Wales Z/283
Additional information - Son of Henry and the late Margaret Cole, of Abercarn, Monmouthshire.
Casualty Type - Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference - II. L. 4A.
Cemetery - WIMEREUX COMMUNAL CEMETERY
Annie :)
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1891 Wales Census
Nehemiah Miles 46 Head Penalt Monmouthshire Wales
Emily Miles 18
William Miles 10
Dora Miles 8
Nehemiah Miles 6
RG12 / 4344 Folio 86 Page 5
1901 Wales Census
Martha Williams 61 Head
Nehemiah Miles 16 Nephew Cowman Penalt Monmouthshire Wales
RG13/4926 Folio 19 Page 6
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Thanks for those Annie ... not sure if we are homing in on Pte Cope or not ... but I was looking on the 1901 for Nehemiah and Treasure !! Can't find them ... even checked Redbrook, Glos, which is sometimes considered to be pasrt of Monmouth ...
Will now look at the 1891 to see where they lived ! I live near Penallt ...
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Found Nehemiah ! He was on the Trelleck census, but it gave his address as Narth, which is about 6 miles from Penallt.
Thanks Annie ... I expect Peter will be interested ... he may even know about this man as he is researching the war dead of both parishes of Trelleck and Penallt.
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Sorry ! ... I didn't put the addresses in or any details did I ?? ::) ( me and my 2 finger typing !! )
I'll write them out proper if you want me to Lydart !! :)
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No thats fine, Annie ... I'm sure Peter can check them for himself !
I'm just interested in finding Pte Cope (they had more success with Finding Pte Ryan !) ... I'll leave the rest of the local war dead to Peter !
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E.T. (Cope) come home to me!!
I find it ironic that the names have been right under our noses for the last 86 years!!!!!!!!!!! The bottle lists all the fallen and the War memorial Committee members.
Typical.!!!!!
...incidentally I now have one extra name to add to the list as R. England is listed in the Beacon as being one of the village war dead along with Arthur England and named on the list in the bottle BUT he is not named on the church plaque!!
Another mystery!!!
Any ideas?
So if you put something in a bottle ..presumably you do so with the intention of hoping at some stage someone might dig it up and read it.....................
So:
I was thinking that we could dig from the Bush Car park a kind of Stalag 14 escape tunnel under the memorial and then dig upward and retrieve the bottle hidden in the base without any obvious disturbance..........................
I wonder if anyone would do a freebee ground penetrating radar plot of the memorial?
Who do you ask for permission to do archeological digging of a War memorial?
MCC? Parish Council? CWGC? Church? The local roadsweeper?
Come to think of it who owns it anyway?
Presumably someone takes responsibility for its upkeep and insurance in case it falls on a passing car or pedestrian.
It is not clear if it (the bottle) is buried right under the very first stone layer that makes up the base in contact with the ground or under the base stone on which the cross is stood.
Just musing with the idea!!! Very tempting though!!
I presume as it was paid for by the village in 1921, it is owned by the village War Memorial Committee. So we have to contact them to get permission and the only way to find out who they are is to dig up the bottle...CATCH 22!!
Peter
Perhaps someone decided in 1921 that in 2007 they would frustrate me!!
(Another sleepless night spent tracking down the fallen of WWI)
P.S. Incidentally I was at The Gwent Record Office and they have got a whole bunch of Parish newsletters from 1890 from Penalt Old Church....very informative about life in the village then!! But of course there are no copies that cover WWI!!!!!
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So ... Peter ! ... did you already have Nehemiah Miles then ?? :-\
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Yes Thank you that info was interesting. I was unable to find a WWI memorial anywhere with Nehemiah Miles named as a fallen soldier or having actually served! It may be he had moved away by then from this area.
I have had a number of born Penalt or resided Penalt individuals as well as the vilages of Treleck and The Narth. However as far as I cn see he does not crop up locally for 1914 -1918.
A local chap Bill Butler has transcribed the following roll of honour and done a nice job on it!!
TRANSCRIPT OF
THE ROLL OF HONOUR AT
CATBROOK MEMORIAL HALL, MONMOUTHSHIRE
1 CITATION
“FOR GOD KING & COUNTRY
To the men of the Parish of Trellech who
served in the Army, Navy, or Air Force in the
Great War 1914 – 1919”
2 Key
Many entries in the Roll identify service in a campaign according to the following Key:-
A = Africa D = Dardanelles E = Egypt F = France and Belgium I = India
It = Italy M = Mesopotamia S = Salonica P = Palestine POW = Prisoner of War
In addition there are occasional symbols for Gassed () and Wounded (X)
3 “In Memoriam” (Listed in the Central Panel of the Roll – see photograph)
Brown R. Pearce (Lt) Gren. Guards F
Davies A.J 5th Lon: Rfl: Bde F
Davies E.J. M. G. C. F
Elliott H. S. W. B. F
James S.A. R. E. F
Howells W. (A.B.) H.M.S. Indefatigable
Kinsey A. (Cpl:) 1st Mon. Regt. F
Morgan C. Gren. Guards F
Morris G. (Sergt). S. W. B. F
Morris W. (L.Cpl). 1st Mon. Regt. F
Parkyn L. (Died in Hospital of Pneumonia) 47th Can. Inf.
Reynolds W. M. G. C. F
Richards E. Welsh Regt. F & It
Tansill W. (Stoker 1st Cl) H.M.S. Indefatigable
4 “Roll of Honour” (Surrounds the central “In Memoriam” listing)
Adams WW Mon Regt.
X Badham J R. F. A. F
Bailey H. R. F. A. F
Beach A.J.A Welsh Regt.
X Beaven C (Cpl) Welsh Regt. F
Beaven J. R. F. A. F
Beaven T.A. Aus. Lt Horse E. D & F
Brown E. R. E. F
X Brown H. R. E. F
Brown R. R. E.
Brown V. R. E. F
Chandler T.B. (Sergt) C. A. S. C. F
Chandler W.F. (2nd Lt) Artists Rifles. F
Charles W. R. E. S
X Davies E.W. S. W. B. F
Davies J.D.G. (Lt) R. F. A. F
Davies J.P. (Lt) Sth Af. Force A
Davies G. R. A. S. C.
POW Davies G (Cpl) MM K.S.L.I. F
Davies F.R. Welsh Regt.
Davies T. Morris (Lt) Gloster Regt
Earlstone V.J R. F. A. F
Edmonds O.W. Cheshire Regt F
Edwards F. R. A. S. C. F
Edwards V. (Sergt) MM & R. A. S. C. F
Croix de Guerre
Ellaway A.E. Canadian Eng [?] F
Ellaway E.A. R. E. F
Ellward E. R. E. F
Evans F.J. R.G.A.
Evans J.J. (Cpl) R. E. F
Evans H.D. K. S. L I. F
Evans T.H. R. F. A. F
Griffiths A.J. Welsh Regt.
Griffiths W. R. E. F
Hanner R.H. R. F. A.
Hobkirk C.J. (Brig Gen) CMG & Essex Regt F
DSO
Hoskins E.J. 1st Mon Regt F
X Hoskins T M. G. C. F
Howells H. R. N. D
X Jenkins A.T. Welsh Guards F
Jenkins W. (Cpl) S. W. B. I & M
Kinsey W.G. Welsh Regt. F
X Kinsey T.E. 1st Mon. Regt F
X Knight D. R. E. F
Knight W. R. F. A.
X Lewis J 2nd Mon. Regt F
X Martin A.E. Pembroke Yeo. F
Morgan B R. E. F
Morgan C. R. E. F
Morgan C.E. Mon. Regt. F
Morgan D K. S. L. I.
Morgan H.C. S. W. B. F
Morgan W.H. S. W. B. I & M
Morris G.H. R. F. A. F
Moulton W.H. Dragoon Guards F
Parker C.J. 1st Mon. Regt F
Parker J. R. F. A. F
Parker S. R. W. F.
Parry H.J. R. A. S. C
Phillips C.J. 1st Mon. Regt F
X Phillips E.A. (Cpl) R. N. D. F. S. & D
Reynolds F.G. R. F. A. F. & E.
X Reynolds V. (Cpl) M. G. C. F
X Richards D.S. (L.Cpl) Kings L'pool Regt F
X Richards N.J. S. W. B. F. & S.
X Richards V.J. (L.Cpl) S. W. B. F
Roberts G. S. W. B. I
Roberts J S. W. B. I
Roberts R.U. S. W. B.
Seriven C (A. B.) H.M.S. Revenge
Sterry J (Craftsman) R. A. F.
Tansill F (Cpl) S. W. B. F
Tilley A.J. Welsh Regt.
X Thomas A.E. R. A. M. C. F
Tyler H.G. (Capt) 3rd Mon. Regt. F
Vaughan A.W R. E. E. D.& P
Vaughan F.J. R. E. F
Vaughan G R. E. F
Vaughan L.G. M. G. S. Canad. F
Vaughan T.C. R. A. V. C. F
Walker A.G. S
X Watkins C. R. E. F
X Watkins N. S. W. B. F
X Wedlake W.W. R. E. F
Wheeler L.G. M. T. & R. A. S. C. F
Williams A. R. E. F
Williams A.H. S. W. B. I
Williams J.H. (Bugler) 1st Mon Regt. F
Williams J.D. (Lt) M. G. C. F
Williams H. Mon. Regt
Wintour J. K. S. L. I.
Note: Occasional inconsistencies and gaps suggest the information on the Roll of Honour was based on word of mouth rather than official records.
I attach a picture of a memorial plaque that came from the Penalt area and originally was supposedly in Chapel Farm that had a small chapel near Penalt.
This now is to be found in the Methodist Chapel at Trelleck. Unresearched at present.
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Pte E. Cope has been found by RootsChat Warresearcher ... ;D
Peter is sure he is actually Cpl. George ERIC Cope ... and as he has done the detective work, I think he should record it here ... please Peter !
Over to you ...
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Hi Lydart !
I'm catching up on treads and was glad to see that you discovered who he was before Nov. 11 this year ;D
Well done for persevering, and well done Peter even if he is :-[ ;D
" They will be remembered ! "
Wendi :)
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I just wish 'war Researcher' would come on here and tell the whole story ... its fascinating, but I dont want to steal his thunder !
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Just tell him ... we're all waiting with bated breath .... ( oh ! and does he have a photograph ?? :D :D ..... we could maybe start looking for that next !! )
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Yes he has a photo ... :)
... he lives in the next village ... I'll try and find his phone number and contact him ...
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Hi, all! I see Peter hasn't updated lately, so I'll fill you in a bit. Found this George Eric Cope on Ancestry.co.uk, and have tried MANY times to contact the person who submitted the info. Can't get any reply from the guy....frustrating. Any ideas? I even tried dangling the carrot of providing info he didn't have on one of his relatives....but even after many emails to him, from both Peter and myself, no reply.
So, our guess about George ERIC Cope is our best guess, but no proof. However, we've been delighted with the response from the people in the area after Peter gave a presentation at the Trellech Chuch. Lots of people came forward and we have expanded our treasure trove of photos and info on many of the war dead of the area. And, we still have more coming in.
What started out as a small labor of love for Peter has indeed become almost a local encyclopedia!! I'm proud of him and for the gift this will be to future generations when it's fully compiled!!
wifey
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Hello ..... (wifey ??) :o
Its good to hear a bit more about the man we now believe to have been ERIC Cope ...
Do keep us updated if you here or find out anything else. It was good to meet you at the Trellech Family History day ...
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There is only one George Eric Cope Birth in the entire country on Free BMD on Ancestry.This is one born in 1898 in Wirral Cheshire.Try as I might I can't find such a George Cope in the 1901 Census.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Hi
Nehemiah and Treasure Miles were my great, great grandparents. Treasure died Q4 1884 and Nehemiah died Q4 1900, so neither will appear ion the 1901 census. Their son, Nehemiah b. Q3 1884, died of pneumonia on 13.03.1916 while serving (Service No: G/3368) with the 8th Battalion, The Buffs (East Kent Regiment), and is buried (Ref: V.C.8) at Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery, Belgium. Happy to send on any other information on this family.
David
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Those of you who have seen the marble plaque, posted earlier, known as Chapel Farm Plaque may be interested to know that we have just about finished working out who the names are. What is of great interest is that this plaque is a smaller copy of the war dead of St. Michael's, Mitchel Troy.
So the men o the parish must mean Mitchel Troy, but it is unlikely that both plaques would be displayed in the same church so the smaller one must have been displayed elsewhere.
We will continue with our research.
Our book is coming to a close soon and we are at the proof reading stage now.
Peter and Linda
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Good to hear that Peter.
Sorry I missed you at the last parish records do ... but look forward to the book !
Lydart from Penallt !
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Can you look up the 1911 Census of the village and its surrounding districts or alternatively search for his birth certifiacate.
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Sorry ... I don't have a subscription ... and we can't do them for each other anyway ! Agin the RootsChat rools !
Only until next year to wait ScouseBoy !!
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Deciphering the smaller marble plaque has been a labour of love. We have found out an incredible amount and now know the plaque was originally at the Chapel at Chapel farm, it is now in Trelech Methodist Chapel.
As regards E. Cope we have come across a Hope family and this does need to be considered. I have come across a number of WWI and WWII plaques where the names were wrong but once engraved or cast these memorials were allowed to remain as they were.
Moulded or cast or engraved memorials were almost impossible to change without spoiling the original aspect to say nothing of the extra cost and the risk of damaging the memorial once again.
Our book is further delayed because we had the good fortune to come across a series of lists of men from the villages that enlisted. This has taken months to unravel. We have also spend considerable time and effort in researching Mitchel Troy, we did try contacting the vicar but had no reponse so it has been a bit uphill.
Ther are a number of other memorials in Mitchel Troy and we are intending to look at these as well while we are on that theme.
The book is taking shape but it is not a simple exercise indeed.
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Hello Peter.
Pte Hope !! That's a turn up for the book(s) !
I'm waiting eagerly for the book to finally come out ... so is our local quite elderly historian ! He's 91 ... so get a move on !!
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There are days when I just have to stop and rest my brain. I never regret starting but wish I could finish!
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By the way has Kim edited the remaining Penallt story yet?
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We can now reveal that Pte E. Cope was in fact Lt Eric Cope. The War Memorial has been dismantled and rebuilt with grants from the Lottery Heritage Fund, War Memorials Trust, Monmouthshire County Council, Trellech United Community Council, The Royal Naval Association, The Western Front Association and private donations.
During the recover of any archeology at the memorial it was found that the story of the bottle being placed there with a document was true. The bottle was recovered.
http://www.demotix.com/news/5456884/93-year-old-message-first-world-war-found-bottle-wales#media-5456364
The document left in the War Memorial has been recovered and is now with the archives. Conservation processes show it named the 3 officers: Pearce-Brown, Davis and Cope.
It would appear that the Monmouthshire Beacon misprinted it in its report of 12 March 1921 issue by which time the Cope family had left Whitebrook to live in Devauden. The Memorial In Penallt Old Church states "Pte E. Cope" and was placed there much later (1927?) it is my view that when the time came to make that Memorial the inscription at Penallt Old Church was probably based on a press cutting from the Beacon and hence compounded the issue.
The Memorial was rededicated on 20th September 2014.
In place of the document now in the archives we have placed several hundred pages of information inside two time capsules: One made of lead and one made of heavy duty plastic piping. This give considerable detail on the men who died and on others who served from Penallt in both World Wars. Perhaps in another one hundred years other readers of these pages will be discussing the War Memorial.
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Thanks for the update Peter.
It'll be good when I do the remembrance service at the war memorial in November to have the correct name and rank for E Cope at last !
Are you going to publish or make available to the people of Penallt all the information you have placed into the new time capsule ? I understood you were going to publish a book ? Can I order a pre-publication copy ?!
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Lydart said<Thanks for the update Peter.
It'll be good when I do the remembrance service at the war memorial in November to have the correct name and rank for E Cope at last !
Are you going to publish or make available to the people of Penallt all the information you have placed into the new time capsule ? I understood you were going to publish a book ? Can I order a pre-publication copy ?!>
It was a great honour to be able to read out 2nd Lt Eric George Cope at the re-dedication along with the names of all the other officers and men. What we placed into the time capsule was three chapters from our book, obviously some of that now needs altering in light of who Cope was. When we knew we would get grant aid for the Memorial we delayed any publishing as we felt this would possibly solve the mystery. I will let you know about pre publication, the book launch etc. Next we have to meet the terms of our grant and hold a small exhibition in Penallt on the men who served and produce a very simple pamphlet for the schools and public of Penallt about the men as well. I have a friend who has a huge WWI collection ready for the display as well as uniforms and equipment that would have been used by the men of Penallt. It was wonderful to solve the mystery. I have also videoed every aspect of the dismantling and rebuilding and am considering making a short documentary film about the men and the memorial.